well that all makes sense, i just dont like Nether Spirit, he's blah.
Demons are going in next for testing I suppose, as soon as I can figure out how to get friggin Cursed Scroll back on cockatrice! what the hell?
I have 2 tombstalkers, but I cant help feeling like for 1 more you get Geralf's Messenger dealing 2 when he comes in and then surviving every removal spell in your deck, where demon gets the axe if you need to kill stuff after he's on the table.
Is it possible Gravecrawler (with Messenger) is also good over the Rack? or was that a horrible thing to say? It dredges and comes back like Bloodghast.
The zombie brew proved to be formidable vs RUG, WUR and Stoneblade at my local, and they're pretty serial when it comes to legacy
the best cards are the best cards, you should have felt vindicated in your choices after a pro did the same thing, i'd have felt proud to see my list succeed.
again, thanks to you Lormador for the breakdown of Pox builds, it did clear several things up for me.
one issue i have been encountering in my build (modified Reid Pox) is not being able to close games.
i took out my Nether Spirits because they tend to get blowed up by Swords the Plowshares and they cant swing through most creatures. I get being able to discard them via Lili is nice but thats a one shot deal.
what i was using instead for a while is Bitterblossom, and it works great except for when I want Abyss on the table.
i havent tried the Rack yet since most of my games i'll get opponents stuck on 2 or less lands and they end up with hands full of crap they cant play. This is also a reason i'd love to run trinisphere or Nether Void when I can find a reasonably priced copy.
i saw that Bloodchief Ascension comment and it did make me think perhaps I can get it to work in a Zombie Pox build I have as a pet deck. It's similar to the recent top 8 RB list only without the red. Messenger does a hell of a good job activating BCA
these days, at least in standard, one could contend that aggro is the best strategy by far, at least until midrange decks take over the format.
control is pretty dead when almost all the aggressive spells in the format are 2 or more cards in one, e.g. Strangleroot Geist, Geralf's Messenger, Huntmaster, Blade Splicer, Geist-Honored Monk, Restoration Angel, Snapcaster Mage...
even with in-block hate, creature decks are crashing through more or less unhindered by control.
M13 gave control next to zero and in fact took most defensive tools away, so its pretty clear which side wotc is leaning-> turn things sideways a.k.a. "monkey magic"
anybody got a list of different Pox builds? i have a land killing build but i'd like to know the other types as well since mine seems way too fair vs the format
oh and does anyone know why Cursed Scroll doesn't exist of Cockatrice anymore?
well i tested a UR version earlier that did much better but lacked the threat density I was looking for so i added white for entreat, but the mana base is very bad.
i originally had Reforge the soul which allowed me to use Noxious Revival a good deal of the time, but it helps my opponents out way too much so i switched it to more faithless.
bad matchup is probably anything with lifegain unless i can stick a decently sized entreat.
terminus is probably very good and its possible i wont need delver, i just liked him in the UR version
It's soft to GY hate which is very much a thing but the board helps with that and it can recover somewhat easily from a crypt or spellbomb. Game 1 is key as g2 n 3 you can change up what you're planning to win with.
so let me ask a question on card choice. if you want finishers that have evasion and lifegain, why not use Chancellor of the Dross?
granted it doesnt have an etb or etg effect, but it isnt dead in your opening 7 as its a free 6 pt life swing per copy and its 7 cmc so rigth after they deal with it you drop Griselbrand and seal the game up.
although Grave Titan is still very strong and Wurmcoil as well I think this can replace Karn, since he's awful in multiples and is a terrible O-ring unless you're already winning.
You can also get Nighthawk in, Batterskull, and the rest is ramp and kill spells.
To whit, Sorin's Thirst is a card I have always loved whenever i cast it in my own MBC build.
i agree, this happens alot in standard as formats are shifting and new sets are coming in, its hard to shut off the existing archetypes without banning anything.
even with Jace and Stoneforge gone, caw-blade was still a good deck.
the only cards i can see hurting delver a bit are ground seal and tormod's crypt.
Ground Seal moreso because it isnt dead in multiples due to the cantrip, and it also shuts down Reanimator Strategies and even improves some decks vs Surgical Extraction (undying creatures).
Crypt isnt amazing but it is free and does a roughly similar job. Spellbomb is better in black because of the draw but outside that i think decks like humans can run tormods vs Delver and keep up with it.
The only time I can remember in recent history where something really ruined a deck upon rotation was Ancient Grudge vs Tempered Steel. That reprint murdered the archetype. I doubt Ground Seal will do that but RG aggro is a good deck right now and Delver is already on the backfoot getting zero new stuff in M13 (Augur of Bolas is interesting) so who knows.
as far as draft goes, its rough when you open pack one with Murder and Vampire Nighthawk in it, or Roaring Primadox and Mwonvuli Beast Tracker, cuz its good odds the guy to your left will take the one you passed and probably cut that color for you.
However for sealed there arent many blowout mythics and everything's pretty fairly costed so it wont be any Titan shenanigans or Gideon rage quits.
the only thing i'm absolutely terrified of my opponent cracking is Nuclear Death Dragon...yes that's its real name
u mean like things with undying? those are kind of important.
surgical is great but i think a good number of people will be switching to Tormod's Crypt anyway.
VR is powerful stuff for zombies, maybe the deck is solid already and wont use it all that much, but it will be a very strong spell after rotation
Demons are going in next for testing I suppose, as soon as I can figure out how to get friggin Cursed Scroll back on cockatrice! what the hell?
Is it possible Gravecrawler (with Messenger) is also good over the Rack? or was that a horrible thing to say?
The zombie brew proved to be formidable vs RUG, WUR and Stoneblade at my local, and they're pretty serial when it comes to legacy
again, thanks to you Lormador for the breakdown of Pox builds, it did clear several things up for me.
one issue i have been encountering in my build (modified Reid Pox) is not being able to close games.
i took out my Nether Spirits because they tend to get blowed up by Swords the Plowshares and they cant swing through most creatures. I get being able to discard them via Lili is nice but thats a one shot deal.
what i was using instead for a while is Bitterblossom, and it works great except for when I want Abyss on the table.
i havent tried the Rack yet since most of my games i'll get opponents stuck on 2 or less lands and they end up with hands full of crap they cant play. This is also a reason i'd love to run trinisphere or Nether Void when I can find a reasonably priced copy.
i saw that Bloodchief Ascension comment and it did make me think perhaps I can get it to work in a Zombie Pox build I have as a pet deck. It's similar to the recent top 8 RB list only without the red. Messenger does a hell of a good job activating BCA
so glad to see this thread flourishing
control is pretty dead when almost all the aggressive spells in the format are 2 or more cards in one, e.g. Strangleroot Geist, Geralf's Messenger, Huntmaster, Blade Splicer, Geist-Honored Monk, Restoration Angel, Snapcaster Mage...
even with in-block hate, creature decks are crashing through more or less unhindered by control.
M13 gave control next to zero and in fact took most defensive tools away, so its pretty clear which side wotc is leaning-> turn things sideways a.k.a. "monkey magic"
oh and does anyone know why Cursed Scroll doesn't exist of Cockatrice anymore?
Bitterblossom no good?
Underworld Dreams terribly slow?
also, is there any way for pox to beat Lands? seems like the name says it all....
i originally had Reforge the soul which allowed me to use Noxious Revival a good deal of the time, but it helps my opponents out way too much so i switched it to more faithless.
bad matchup is probably anything with lifegain unless i can stick a decently sized entreat.
terminus is probably very good and its possible i wont need delver, i just liked him in the UR version
4x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Thunder Wrath
3x Entreat the Angels
2x Temporal Mastery
4x Noxious Revival
4x Faithless Looting
4x Thought Scour
4x Ponder
3x Banishing Stroke
2x Vanishment
4x Snapcaster
4x Delver
4x Island
4x Clifftop REtreat
4x Sulfur Falls
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Seachrome Coast
Sideboard
4x Jace's Phantasm
4x Fettergeist
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Terminus
It's soft to GY hate which is very much a thing but the board helps with that and it can recover somewhat easily from a crypt or spellbomb. Game 1 is key as g2 n 3 you can change up what you're planning to win with.
Thoughts?
I may be missing things too from the list my bad
granted it doesnt have an etb or etg effect, but it isnt dead in your opening 7 as its a free 6 pt life swing per copy and its 7 cmc so rigth after they deal with it you drop Griselbrand and seal the game up.
although Grave Titan is still very strong and Wurmcoil as well I think this can replace Karn, since he's awful in multiples and is a terrible O-ring unless you're already winning.
You can also get Nighthawk in, Batterskull, and the rest is ramp and kill spells.
To whit, Sorin's Thirst is a card I have always loved whenever i cast it in my own MBC build.
even with Jace and Stoneforge gone, caw-blade was still a good deck.
the only cards i can see hurting delver a bit are ground seal and tormod's crypt.
Ground Seal moreso because it isnt dead in multiples due to the cantrip, and it also shuts down Reanimator Strategies and even improves some decks vs Surgical Extraction (undying creatures).
Crypt isnt amazing but it is free and does a roughly similar job. Spellbomb is better in black because of the draw but outside that i think decks like humans can run tormods vs Delver and keep up with it.
The only time I can remember in recent history where something really ruined a deck upon rotation was Ancient Grudge vs Tempered Steel. That reprint murdered the archetype. I doubt Ground Seal will do that but RG aggro is a good deck right now and Delver is already on the backfoot getting zero new stuff in M13 (Augur of Bolas is interesting) so who knows.
However for sealed there arent many blowout mythics and everything's pretty fairly costed so it wont be any Titan shenanigans or Gideon rage quits.
the only thing i'm absolutely terrified of my opponent cracking is Nuclear Death Dragon...yes that's its real name
surgical is great but i think a good number of people will be switching to Tormod's Crypt anyway.
VR is powerful stuff for zombies, maybe the deck is solid already and wont use it all that much, but it will be a very strong spell after rotation