Quote from desCouresArguing about the definition of barning does not change what you actually did. Which, I agree, may not have been 'barning', sticking to the strict definition, but was most definitely scummy
Quote from dC »I think, however, that there is a scum motivation for claiming LyLo, when a scum is being wagoned.
Quote from dC »Your hypothetical is just horrible, and your supposed wish to not get lynched is only convincing if somehow you know, unequivocally, that this is, in fact, LyLo. How do you know this, hm?
Quote from dC »...the only person to say anything of the sort was Seppel himself. In all cases this happened it was because he shifted to one of many suspects and everyone decided that one suspect was as good as another. Seppel himself had little to nothing to do with it.
Quote from dC »There's literally nothing I can say about this but...
1. Wrong. There is nothing unbelievable about the claim, especially corroborated as it is.
2. Wrong. There's no point in paying too much attention to an ability that is never going to be usable.
Quote from dC »Ah, the classic appeal to general authority.
Quote from dC »It's one aspect. Duh. Are you intending to nitpick everything in a vain attempt to portray me as lying scum?
Quote from dC »I didn't need to remember every detail. Item abilities were irrelevant. Kill/vote/protect/cop abilities were uncopiable. Meaning that up until the night cpe and Pale Mage died, there was literally no one worth copying, and certainly not at the price of 6 points the town probably had better uses for.
Quote from dC »Oooh, nice backpedal. Now it's about the 6 point ability. Which for me to be lying about, Cyan would have to be lying about. Which would require us both to be scum, one of whom needlessly claimed a false second ability for his scumbuddy at the beginning of the day under literally no provocation. A second ability that we somehow both further claimed was completely unusable.
Occam's Razor is very put out at being wilfully ignored.
Quote from dC »This makes me very certain that RafK is town now.
Quote from dC »I said this the very next time I posted after Cyan revealed my ability, after I was back from the weekend.
I also note that you don't seem to have changed your opinion much, despite one of the base underpinnings of your supposed case having just fallen out from under you.
Quote from desCouresThis is reasonable, I suppose. Although I have no idea why in the world you mentioned retargeting in the first place, given that it's patently pointless for a rolecop to retarget the same person.
Quote from dC »Don't play dumb. You're harping after me because Kraj keeps bringing me up.
Quote from dC »I'd like to ask what that 'upside' would be, in fact.
If we in fact have three scum left, then barring some strange turn of events, this is LyLo. If you are town, and you truly believe this to be the case, then you're justifiably alarmed at the prospect of dying, because you'd lose. This much is fine.
But any other town player dying results in a loss for a theoretical town-you as well. Which should naturally make a townie-you just as concerned about lynching another town player as for your own death. I'd expect more reasonable, more careful, more grounds-up play from somebody from that perspective.
This is not what I'm seeing from your responses now, or indeed your play today.
Quote from dC »....Seppel. With 'a lot of sway in the town'.
Are you even reading what you're writing?
Quote from dC »Semantics. 'Claim analysis' covers a much wider range than looking at point costs and trying to call people out on it. DYH was caught on claim analysis, when Cyan pointed out that his actions didn't make sense from a town perspective. Your 'claim analysis' here is quite literally the most superficial and unreliable facet of the entire concept of 'claim analysis'.
In addition to, you know, being totally wrong. But you ignored that, in your desperate and zealous push to not die.
Quote from dC »Take it up with the mod, not with me.
Quote from dC »I did so once, upon first receiving the aspect, and only checked previous games, finding nothing of significant use. Roles in this game, having been revealed upon death, stayed in my memory.
Quote from dC »...retconning, hm? The only person that 'yelled at me multiple times to claim' was you, and that was after at least two posts wilfully ignoring my previous claim posts and continuing to ask me to claim yet again.
Quote from dC »...fine. Let's put this bovine faeces argument to rest right now.
Give Points: desCoures to RobRoy
Transfer Points: desCoures to RobRoy
Donate Points: desCoures to RobRoy
...or whatever the right syntax is, let me know what the heck is right.
Well, RobRoy? Feel any different?
Quote from dC »...you are so grasping at straws it isn't funny. Flavour? Really?
Maybe it so, I don't know, in case the town never turned on Role PMs for so reason, I'd be able to garner some information on current roles?
Quote from dC »...I'd say this is the ultimate proof that you're not interested in catching scum, only in not dying.
The very section you quote says 'see above'. I began my post with a clarification stating that my version of the Copier ability was permanent and irreversible, unlike DYH's one-shot version.
You never paid attention to either the very beginning of my post, or the line you quote that references the same very beginning of my post, choosing instead to continue to jump all over your perceived 'suspicious thing', which I highly suspect became your point of emphasis because of RafK stating it was a valid concern. You now state that the main thrust of your current 'suspicion' of me has to do with the difference in points between my ability and DYH's, which is both blatantly wrong as proven by the very clarification you completely failed to notice in your desperate push to not die and would require both me and Cyan to be scum (or Cyan to just be horrifically stupid and me to be horrifically stupid along with him) to be a reasonable basis for suspicion. In your entire horrifically bad 'weird things' post, you yourself say that you haven't bothered reading carefully... but have squarely set your sights on myself and Cyan by extension, showing none of the careful play that someone truly worried about the town's chances would be showing.
If I had any reservations about you being scum, this ended it.
Quote from dC ».....what?!
This is an expression of disbelief and slight frustration. What this is not is a blatant attempt at accusation as you seem to want to portray it as.
Also, Mr. Pot, I have a distinct problem with your hue, given this:
This is an 'AHA I CAUGHT YOU NOW'. Blatant hypocrisy FTL?
Quote from Ash LV-426No, that's precisely what you did. I've been poking at DC for multiple game days; I agree with him that's it hard to see your attack on him as anything other than trying to use my townie cred to save yourself. I don't see much of a reason not to lynch you today.
Quote from desCouresThis is consistent with your original claim, now that I look at it. But at some point didn't you say something about 'targeting zindabad' and 'targeting Cyan'? You seemed to know who you were targeting at those points, not just a number.
Quote from dC »Way to try and deflect attention with a Kraj barn. Or is it because I seem like a relatively easy target? Just like Seppel, and zindabad after RafK and I did all the work?
Quote from dC »As for the other question, I asked because I can't really see any combination of three that would be likely scum together behaviourally. It's a possibility, I suppose, but then they're doing a damned good job hiding the links...
Quote from dC »You mean Seppel? The person you were after most of yesterday? The person who, frankly, flipped his opinion so often he seemed like a pancake chef?
I swear you're typing flustered in the above...
Quote from dC »And now here's your list of 'weird stuff', half of which is blatant mod-gaming...
Quote from dC »Pure mod-gaming, and only usurped by player action. Fail.
Quote from dC »What are you on about here? If you're talking about rider, I quite literally forgot about him.
Quote from dC »I don't recall that we ever came to a consensus on a massclaim. Some people wanted one, some people claimed. Fail.
Quote from dC »RobRoy. Fail.
EDIT: Ah, nice attempt to give yourself an out with the 'didn't have the points to use at least once'. So you're blatantly ignoring the fact that I have a (useless) ability that I can use as many times as I want, because it doesn't cost points?
Quote from dC »Mod-gaming, and wrong anyway. (See above)
Quote from dC »Nice attempt at defence-disguised-as-offence. I'll admit to forgetting your original claim post, but I'm pretty certain you've made statements since then that confused the issue.
Quote from riderso now we kill ewie, right?
Quote from Cyan@UI: Actually, I started to express suspicion of you toward the end of D3, then again at the start of Day 4. Long before anyone else did(except possibly AG, but he can hardly be considered as actually trying to get you lynched) I backed off of it for awhile, then decided that I was right in the first place. Nice misrep, though.
Quote from AbbeyGargoyleSK do you want to coordinate the item hunt tonite given that we know how our abilities resolve?
Quote from RafaelKIt was my reasoning on the previous day, which is why I backed iLord's lynch over DYH's. iLord was left hanging at -1 at the original deadline.
Quote from Raf »Even two of them is pushing, at least in that combination. And if there's 3 mafia left, the only scenario in which this conversation matters, then it would have been the game-over move, not really throwing the game....
Quote from RafaelKBetween Cyan's revote and DV's unvote, I have to believe there was ample opportunity for a town UI to be cliffpushed immediately by the scum (with some plausible deniability, even, in the event that the game does not immediately end in the morning). Unless the remaining scum are Abbey, DV and Cyan... and I just can't see that trio quite together.
Same kind of reasoning as iLord being scum, ultimately.
Quote from Raf »Hopefully this is right, and at least I'll get "I told you so" out of this whole deal, since I wanted to lynch UI day 1!
Quote from CyanFeel free to find an example of me 'screwing up' in this fashion. Ever. In the entire history of my playing mafia. Good luck.
Quote from Cyan »Or better yet, explain why any of these events would remotely make sense.
Quote from Cyan »You're being ridiculous. DC's ability cost a different amount of points than DYH's, and that's it. It's also worth mentioning that DYH's ability says '1 activation', but DC's says nothing of the sort.
Quote from Cyan
It cost 5 for DYH to use it, it cost 6 for Descoures to use it.
Quote from CyanThe undisclosed ability is DYH's 'Copier' ability.
Quote from RafaelKThe owner of the Ghost Pendant as far as I know can bring Ash back. I kind of suspect it's six of one, half a dozen of the other though. If UI is not scum and there's 3 scum left, I can't see DV not being one of them.
Quote from RobRoyVotes done after a lynching vote usually aren't counted. You can't change your vote during twilight, nor can you add new ones. I think it was fairly apparent that UI was the favourite to be lynched, and he didn't take his auto-kill on you. That leaves the following scenarios:
1) He's townie.
2) He is scum and doesn't care if you're alive or dead. UI/the scum figure that your added analysis isn't worth wasting a chance to have UI talk his way out of a lynch.
3) He is scum and is trying to metagame his way out of this, figuring that someone would raise this exact point. (Or he is having a scumbuddy raise the point for him OMG.)