Arguing about the definition of barning does not change what you actually did. Which, I agree, may not have been 'barning', sticking to the strict definition, but was most definitely scummy
Your argument here is that what, I am attacking someone a practically confirmed townie was suspicious of? This is scummy, even though I'm not doing it to avoid attention or stay in the background? You tried to use a mafia term instead of an argument, I showed how it doesn't make sense or describe what I'm doing, and you're just saying that what I did was scummy without giving a reason. That's how scum make cases (also bad townies who are basically in a rut), because it doesn't find scum.
Quote from dC »
I think, however, that there is a scum motivation for claiming LyLo, when a scum is being wagoned.
There is. If I was saying "HOLY **** DON'T LYNCH ME YOU'LL LOSE THE GAME WHAT ARE YOU DOING" that's how scum use LyLo (That's also what townies do so it's a non-tell as to alignment). That's not what I'm doing though. I'm saying that because it's LoL, this is what I'm afraid of and this is the reasoning behind my actions. The fact that there are things that scum would do in LoL doesn't really matter.
Quote from dC »
Your hypothetical is just horrible, and your supposed wish to not get lynched is only convincing if somehow you know, unequivocally, that this is, in fact, LyLo. How do you know this, hm?
Yestarday I'd mentioned that I thought there were two scum left, but according to the people who play here a lot and have played in previous Az games, that can't be expected.
While my hypothetical is a very extreme one, why is it horrible from my perspective? If I have to choose between lynching someone I'm completely sure is town and someone I'm 99% sure is town, my choice is an obvious one.
Quote from dC »
...the only person to say anything of the sort was Seppel himself. In all cases this happened it was because he shifted to one of many suspects and everyone decided that one suspect was as good as another. Seppel himself had little to nothing to do with it.
So yesterday I could have said "Now we're lynching X" and people would have moved their votes accordingly? I mean, that's how someone with sway affects the town.
Quote from dC »
There's literally nothing I can say about this but...
1. Wrong. There is nothing unbelievable about the claim, especially corroborated as it is.
2. Wrong. There's no point in paying too much attention to an ability that is never going to be usable.
Part 1 is a judgment call, and the corroboration doesn't mean especially much at LoL.
Part 2 had to do with more than just your 6 cost ability. It also had to do with you not investigating rider nights 2 and 3.
Quote from dC »
Ah, the classic appeal to general authority.
Saying that people will need to evaluate it on its own is some sort of logical fallacy now? (Also saying "you calling your ability believable is worthless" isn't an appeal to authority. Come on dude, you're throwing words around and hoping nobody actually thinks about them.)
Quote from dC »
It's one aspect. Duh. Are you intending to nitpick everything in a vain attempt to portray me as lying scum?
No, I was genuinely confused. So you have one aspect, let's call it the Necrophiliac Aspect or whatever, and it lets you either look at a dead person's role or, at a cost of 6 points, permanently get a role from any old Az game?
Quote from dC »
I didn't need to remember every detail. Item abilities were irrelevant. Kill/vote/protect/cop abilities were uncopiable. Meaning that up until the night cpe and Pale Mage died, there was literally no one worth copying, and certainly not at the price of 6 points the town probably had better uses for.
Well, there was also the bit where we were trying to find scum. People were doing a decent amount of looking at roles and interactions and all that jazz.
Quote from dC »
Oooh, nice backpedal. Now it's about the 6 point ability. Which for me to be lying about, Cyan would have to be lying about. Which would require us both to be scum, one of whom needlessly claimed a false second ability for his scumbuddy at the beginning of the day under literally no provocation. A second ability that we somehow both further claimed was completely unusable.
Occam's Razor is very put out at being wilfully ignored.
Every time you've called me clarifying or restating a point a backpedal, it hasn't been. I dare you to find one point where I said that I thought you had a point generation method.
Quote from dC »
This makes me very certain that RafK is town now.
I think raf is town and all, but this is the height of stupidity.
Quote from dC »
I said this the very next time I posted after Cyan revealed my ability, after I was back from the weekend.
I also note that you don't seem to have changed your opinion much, despite one of the base underpinnings of your supposed case having just fallen out from under you.
Reasons behind my opinions changed because of your responses, but when it's as broad as "I think you're scum and I don't believe that you have the ability you claim" then you could say it hasn't changed much.
This is reasonable, I suppose. Although I have no idea why in the world you mentioned retargeting in the first place, given that it's patently pointless for a rolecop to retarget the same person.
No it's not. I get the active aspect of the person I hit. So if I want to know what someone I've targeted and am suspicious of is doing tonight, I'll retarget them. If I wanted to know more of someone's aspects, I'd retarget them.
Quote from dC »
Don't play dumb. You're harping after me because Kraj keeps bringing me up.
Hey, after this accusation became anything more than a collection of mafia buzzwords when kraj made his post, I gave a more in depth response where I say what I've done, say what barning is and show that the two are different. It would behoove you to look at that.
Quote from dC »
I'd like to ask what that 'upside' would be, in fact.
If we in fact have three scum left, then barring some strange turn of events, this is LyLo. If you are town, and you truly believe this to be the case, then you're justifiably alarmed at the prospect of dying, because you'd lose. This much is fine.
But any other town player dying results in a loss for a theoretical town-you as well. Which should naturally make a townie-you just as concerned about lynching another town player as for your own death. I'd expect more reasonable, more careful, more grounds-up play from somebody from that perspective.
This is not what I'm seeing from your responses now, or indeed your play today.
I don't believe that thre's an upside to assuming two scum. That's why I'm not operating under that assumption and I don't think there's a townie motivation for doing so.
Here's what this is resulting in for me. My concerns are, in order:
1) Don't get lynched
2) Get the scummiest player lynched
3) Get information that will be of use tomorrow
But frankly, I would be willing to vote literally anyone else and do literally anything (within the rules, of course) to make sure I don't get lynched. If, hypothetically, three people claimed scum and voted someone else and I had only the choice between getting that person lynched or getting myself lynched, I vould vote that other guy. Because there's a possibility it was a gambit and he's scum. There's no possibility that I am.
However, I don't think I've been all that cavalier today. I'm very possibly playing differently than you or most of Salv plays, but that isn't necessarily reckless and it isn't scummy.
Quote from dC »
....Seppel. With 'a lot of sway in the town'.
Are you even reading what you're writing?
Yes. I happen to think that the person who can say "Now we're lynching X" and get something like 3 or 4 votes to move onto them has a lot of sway.
Quote from dC »
Semantics. 'Claim analysis' covers a much wider range than looking at point costs and trying to call people out on it. DYH was caught on claim analysis, when Cyan pointed out that his actions didn't make sense from a town perspective. Your 'claim analysis' here is quite literally the most superficial and unreliable facet of the entire concept of 'claim analysis'.
In addition to, you know, being totally wrong. But you ignored that, in your desperate and zealous push to not die.
My claim argument against you is, broadly speaking, two-fold. Your claim is not believable and your behavior does not match your claim. These both lead to the conclusion that you're lying about your ability.
Quote from dC »
Take it up with the mod, not with me.
Frankly, this accusation isn't one you can respond to. Everyone else needs to individually look at your claim and decide how likely it is to exist.
Quote from dC »
I did so once, upon first receiving the aspect, and only checked previous games, finding nothing of significant use. Roles in this game, having been revealed upon death, stayed in my memory.
Two things here. First I need to make sure I'm getting your timeline correct. You got both of your abilities right after Axelrod died?
And secondly: Are you trying to say that you remembered every detail that mattered about every dead person from the middle of day 2 to (at least) day 4? You never once had to look at the original post to grab roles, but at the same time you completely forgot about rider? That boggles my mind.
Quote from dC »
...retconning, hm? The only person that 'yelled at me multiple times to claim' was you, and that was after at least two posts wilfully ignoring my previous claim posts and continuing to ask me to claim yet again.
Hmm, apparently you're right. Seppel asked you to claim anything relevent, you claimed nothing that matters, I asked for a claim from you, you said w/e and claimed that you stared at corpses, kraj pointed out that's not a claim, and then you claimed to rolecop dead people. I apologize for getting this wrong.
Quote from dC »
...fine. Let's put this bovine faeces argument to rest right now.
Give Points: desCoures to RobRoy Transfer Points: desCoures to RobRoy
Donate Points: desCoures to RobRoy
...or whatever the right syntax is, let me know what the heck is right.
Well, RobRoy? Feel any different?
I'm not saying you have a secret way to gain points. I'm saying that you don't have the 6 cost ability.
Quote from dC »
...you are so grasping at straws it isn't funny. Flavour? Really?
Maybe it so, I don't know, in case the town never turned on Role PMs for so reason, I'd be able to garner some information on current roles?
This was a random aside because it felt weird that your two aspects had nothing to do with each other. Even though this has nothing to do with it, I just remembered that Raf's abilities are kinda similar in that they only sync up with a lot of stretching.
Quote from dC »
...I'd say this is the ultimate proof that you're not interested in catching scum, only in not dying.
The very section you quote says 'see above'. I began my post with a clarification stating that my version of the Copier ability was permanent and irreversible, unlike DYH's one-shot version.
You never paid attention to either the very beginning of my post, or the line you quote that references the same very beginning of my post, choosing instead to continue to jump all over your perceived 'suspicious thing', which I highly suspect became your point of emphasis because of RafK stating it was a valid concern. You now state that the main thrust of your current 'suspicion' of me has to do with the difference in points between my ability and DYH's, which is both blatantly wrong as proven by the very clarification you completely failed to notice in your desperate push to not die and would require both me and Cyan to be scum (or Cyan to just be horrifically stupid and me to be horrifically stupid along with him) to be a reasonable basis for suspicion. In your entire horrifically bad 'weird things' post, you yourself say that you haven't bothered reading carefully... but have squarely set your sights on myself and Cyan by extension, showing none of the careful play that someone truly worried about the town's chances would be showing.
If I had any reservations about you being scum, this ended it.
Yeah, I'd skimmed your post because I had class in like half an hour. Man why didn't you say this as soon as I started this whole thing?
Quote from dC »
.....what?!
This is an expression of disbelief and slight frustration. What this is not is a blatant attempt at accusation as you seem to want to portray it as.
Also, Mr. Pot, I have a distinct problem with your hue, given this:
This is an 'AHA I CAUGHT YOU NOW'. Blatant hypocrisy FTL?
Apart from the stylistic differences (I like being all shouty and you like to be more studied) these both serve the same purpose. However, the motivations are different. When a mafia member makes a case on someone, they need to twist innocent mistakes and lack of clarity into deliberate distortions. Your post does that. (the 'Just how many more clauses to your ability are you intending to pull out of your ass here? ' bit is just a reskinned way of asking when I stopped beating my wife.) My post, on the other hand, is dealing with a claim that contradicts known information.
No, that's precisely what you did. I've been poking at DC for multiple game days; I agree with him that's it hard to see your attack on him as anything other than trying to use my townie cred to save yourself. I don't see much of a reason not to lynch you today.
I've been vaguely suspicious of him for a while too. Probably not as long, and almost certainly not as vocal as you because I was haring after Cyan first and zindabad and Seppel later, but I don't see how my play today can be interpreted as hanging on your coattails. My real push on dC is because of the inconsistency with his copier ability. That, I'd safely say, isn't a barn.
(Since I've been arguing elsewhere where people have been using different definitions than me and I haven't noticed until way too late where they're basically just saying 'no u', I want to make sure we're using the same definition of barn. Basically a yes-man who tries to hide behind someone else?)
This is consistent with your original claim, now that I look at it. But at some point didn't you say something about 'targeting zindabad' and 'targeting Cyan'? You seemed to know who you were targeting at those points, not just a number.
Once I knew the number that corresponded to zindabad, I could talk about targeting him. I also talked about targeting people the multiple times I proved that I can get roles without targeting people and today when I talked about how I could have made up fake results.
Quote from dC »
Way to try and deflect attention with a Kraj barn. Or is it because I seem like a relatively easy target? Just like Seppel, and zindabad after RafK and I did all the work?
What? Where the hell did barning Ash come from? This is just ludicrous.
Quote from dC »
As for the other question, I asked because I can't really see any combination of three that would be likely scum together behaviourally. It's a possibility, I suppose, but then they're doing a damned good job hiding the links...
What do we gain by acting like only two scum are left? What we lose is potentially the game, so I'd like for there to be a decently-sized upside.
Quote from dC »
You mean Seppel? The person you were after most of yesterday? The person who, frankly, flipped his opinion so often he seemed like a pancake chef?
I swear you're typing flustered in the above...
Yeah, that Seppel. I thought he was scum, but I highly doubt that the mafia took "ewie thinks Seppel is scum" into their consideration, unless they really wanted to make me look like a fool today. (Hint: they didn't)
And if you're trying to push for one more mislynch why wouldn't you kill the guy with a lot of sway in the town who very well might save the person you want to be going after?
Quote from dC »
And now here's your list of 'weird stuff', half of which is blatant mod-gaming...
No, it's analysis of claims. But no matter what you want to call it doesn't change its validity.
Quote from dC »
Pure mod-gaming, and only usurped by player action. Fail.
It is a reasonable argument to make. Your ability having zero use as long as the town performs what was probably the only obvious action this game is unique among all the people in this game.
Quote from dC »
What are you on about here? If you're talking about rider, I quite literally forgot about him.
That's not impossible, but it gives the town as a whole no way to confirm your ability. Also in the months since rider's death I'm surprised that you never tried to look up the roles people had and get stonewalled by rider.
Quote from dC »
I don't recall that we ever came to a consensus on a massclaim. Some people wanted one, some people claimed. Fail.
Where some people who claimed are the ones who hadn't and people were telling you to claim. I mean, not fully claiming after the town yelled at you multiple times to actually claim what your abilities are isn't less suspicious or anything, but I can replace this contention with that.
Quote from dC »
RobRoy. Fail.
EDIT: Ah, nice attempt to give yourself an out with the 'didn't have the points to use at least once'. So you're blatantly ignoring the fact that I have a (useless) ability that I can use as many times as I want, because it doesn't cost points?
Yup. Because Arim had an ability that didn't cost points but got a couple points to use the one that did. And Raf too, if I'm remembering correctly. I mean, Arim, RR, Ash, Cubus and I think raf all had abilities that cost points and just enough points to use them instead of a point generator.
Hey, how does the flavor between "I look at dead people" and "I can gain any role from any game that Az has modded" sync up?
Quote from dC »
Mod-gaming, and wrong anyway. (See above)
Your ability costs 6. DYH's ability costs 5. This is a suspicious thing.
Quote from dC »
Nice attempt at defence-disguised-as-offence. I'll admit to forgetting your original claim post, but I'm pretty certain you've made statements since then that confused the issue.
Well, you're the only one who kept on getting confused and you're the only one who, when he didn't understand how my ability works, jumped into the thread with an "AHA! I CAUGHT YOU NOW!"
@UI: Actually, I started to express suspicion of you toward the end of D3, then again at the start of Day 4. Long before anyone else did(except possibly AG, but he can hardly be considered as actually trying to get you lynched) I backed off of it for awhile, then decided that I was right in the first place. Nice misrep, though.
I don't remember it exactly and don't have time to check this (I will do it later this week or over the weekend though), but late day 3 a lot of people were going "Hey, maybe ewie is lurking scum" and you were in among those, and then for most of day 4 you were calling me town until near the end when I became scum in your eyes again.
SK do you want to coordinate the item hunt tonite given that we know how our abilities resolve?
So I assume you're just treating today as done?
---------------------
RANDOM WEIRD STUFF CYAN AND DC HAVE DONE:
This isn't complete and is because I haven't reread and won't be able to until Thursday or more likely Friday at the earliest.
dC:
*Claimed an ability that was entirely usurped by the game rules
*Didn't use it in the one place it could have mattered
*Didn't claim an ability during massclaim
*Claims to have an ability that costs 6 with no way of getting points [Note: I'm pretty sure that nobody else has claimed to have an ability they didn't have the points to use at least once or a built-in way of gaining points.]
*His 6 cost ability is the same as a 5 cost ability the scum have.
*Consistently misinterpreted statements about my role and every time used it as some proof of me lying and string claiming (everything I've claimed about my role was either directly stated or a simple extrapolation of my claim post)
Cyan:
*Tried to take his vote off of DYH with ~3 hours left in the day.
*reversed his stance on me when I became a more likely lynch.
*Three bullet points looks way better than two.
It was my reasoning on the previous day, which is why I backed iLord's lynch over DYH's. iLord was left hanging at -1 at the original deadline.
Ah. I think that logic's not all that great though; especially when lynching town doesn't lose the game.
Quote from Raf »
Even two of them is pushing, at least in that combination. And if there's 3 mafia left, the only scenario in which this conversation matters, then it would have been the game-over move, not really throwing the game....
Well, unless DV is scum we can blow up the ghost pendant tonight if we lynch town, so it's not impossible for three scum to not have us at LoL.
But if you think that there are three scum, that two of them aren't in {Cyan, Abbey or DV} but that DV is scum and that the scum would ninja any townie and have been around to, then I guess your logic makes me scum.
Between Cyan's revote and DV's unvote, I have to believe there was ample opportunity for a town UI to be cliffpushed immediately by the scum (with some plausible deniability, even, in the event that the game does not immediately end in the morning). Unless the remaining scum are Abbey, DV and Cyan... and I just can't see that trio quite together.
Same kind of reasoning as iLord being scum, ultimately.
How was that the reasoning that made iLord scum? Pretty sure we killed him because of the dilemma between him and RR.
And there's no need that all of Abbey, DV and Cyan be scum for me to not have been speed lynched. If two of them are, or if there are two scum, the mafia wouldn't be willing to throw the game on killing me when it's plain that the town is going to anyways.
Quote from Raf »
Hopefully this is right, and at least I'll get "I told you so" out of this whole deal, since I wanted to lynch UI day 1!
Feel free to find an example of me 'screwing up' in this fashion. Ever. In the entire history of my playing mafia. Good luck.
I'm almost certain that good people made those mistakes in Pokemafia. And rider (it was you, right?) in Byzantine miscapitalized his role and almost got lynched for it, except he used the defense of "Yeah right, like I'd go to all this work of making a fakeclaim and then screw up the basics"
Quote from Cyan »
Or better yet, explain why any of these events would remotely make sense.
There are all sorts of defenses. Maybe you thought that him having a less vanilla role would keep him out of the noose. Maybe your rolecop isn't as it appears. I could keep guessing hypotheticals but there's really no point.
I mean the idea of a 6 cost ability when someone has no natural way of getting points is still bogus as all get out. Why, when you get an ability that he kept hidden, is known to be a scum's future ability and he has no way to ever use, would you ask about it and accept his explanation at face value?
Quote from Cyan »
You're being ridiculous. DC's ability cost a different amount of points than DYH's, and that's it. It's also worth mentioning that DYH's ability says '1 activation', but DC's says nothing of the sort.
Not really. I mean, now DYH's copier is supposed to be totally different than his other uninherited abilities at your say-so when it's probably LoL.
Cyan, I was serious when I asked why I went from townie to scum in your eyes.
It cost 5 for DYH to use it, it cost 6 for Descoures to use it.
Like I said, there's no reason to believe that dC has to spend more for an ability than DYH. Nothing else in this game's like that and if DYH inherited the ability from dC somehow, it wouldn't make sense for the price to drop.
Are there any other examples of costs of abilities changing between different people who can use them?
The owner of the Ghost Pendant as far as I know can bring Ash back. I kind of suspect it's six of one, half a dozen of the other though. If UI is not scum and there's 3 scum left, I can't see DV not being one of them.
It's really unlikely, sure. But it's possible and if there are 2 scum and DV is one of them, an immediate self-vote by kpaca stops the scum from running anybody up. It gives us a chance instead of just losing straight up.
Votes done after a lynching vote usually aren't counted. You can't change your vote during twilight, nor can you add new ones. I think it was fairly apparent that UI was the favourite to be lynched, and he didn't take his auto-kill on you. That leaves the following scenarios:
1) He's townie.
2) He is scum and doesn't care if you're alive or dead. UI/the scum figure that your added analysis isn't worth wasting a chance to have UI talk his way out of a lynch.
3) He is scum and is trying to metagame his way out of this, figuring that someone would raise this exact point. (Or he is having a scumbuddy raise the point for him OMG.)
If I'm scum, there's really no reason for me to hammer rider here. The advantage of his analysis isn't worth the chance of me squeaking out of this, especially as rider's existence doesn't change the number of mislynches we have.
RR, is there a way to un-ghost Ash? If town is lynched today, we might need to gamble on nobody with access being scum and getting to buy an extra day by giving him the vote back.
Your argument here is that what, I am attacking someone a practically confirmed townie was suspicious of? This is scummy, even though I'm not doing it to avoid attention or stay in the background? You tried to use a mafia term instead of an argument, I showed how it doesn't make sense or describe what I'm doing, and you're just saying that what I did was scummy without giving a reason. That's how scum make cases (also bad townies who are basically in a rut), because it doesn't find scum.
There is. If I was saying "HOLY **** DON'T LYNCH ME YOU'LL LOSE THE GAME WHAT ARE YOU DOING" that's how scum use LyLo (That's also what townies do so it's a non-tell as to alignment). That's not what I'm doing though. I'm saying that because it's LoL, this is what I'm afraid of and this is the reasoning behind my actions. The fact that there are things that scum would do in LoL doesn't really matter.
Yestarday I'd mentioned that I thought there were two scum left, but according to the people who play here a lot and have played in previous Az games, that can't be expected.
While my hypothetical is a very extreme one, why is it horrible from my perspective? If I have to choose between lynching someone I'm completely sure is town and someone I'm 99% sure is town, my choice is an obvious one.
So yesterday I could have said "Now we're lynching X" and people would have moved their votes accordingly? I mean, that's how someone with sway affects the town.
Part 1 is a judgment call, and the corroboration doesn't mean especially much at LoL.
Part 2 had to do with more than just your 6 cost ability. It also had to do with you not investigating rider nights 2 and 3.
Saying that people will need to evaluate it on its own is some sort of logical fallacy now? (Also saying "you calling your ability believable is worthless" isn't an appeal to authority. Come on dude, you're throwing words around and hoping nobody actually thinks about them.)
No, I was genuinely confused. So you have one aspect, let's call it the Necrophiliac Aspect or whatever, and it lets you either look at a dead person's role or, at a cost of 6 points, permanently get a role from any old Az game?
Well, there was also the bit where we were trying to find scum. People were doing a decent amount of looking at roles and interactions and all that jazz.
Every time you've called me clarifying or restating a point a backpedal, it hasn't been. I dare you to find one point where I said that I thought you had a point generation method.
I think raf is town and all, but this is the height of stupidity.
Reasons behind my opinions changed because of your responses, but when it's as broad as "I think you're scum and I don't believe that you have the ability you claim" then you could say it hasn't changed much.
Hey, after this accusation became anything more than a collection of mafia buzzwords when kraj made his post, I gave a more in depth response where I say what I've done, say what barning is and show that the two are different. It would behoove you to look at that.
I don't believe that thre's an upside to assuming two scum. That's why I'm not operating under that assumption and I don't think there's a townie motivation for doing so.
Here's what this is resulting in for me. My concerns are, in order:
1) Don't get lynched
2) Get the scummiest player lynched
3) Get information that will be of use tomorrow
But frankly, I would be willing to vote literally anyone else and do literally anything (within the rules, of course) to make sure I don't get lynched. If, hypothetically, three people claimed scum and voted someone else and I had only the choice between getting that person lynched or getting myself lynched, I vould vote that other guy. Because there's a possibility it was a gambit and he's scum. There's no possibility that I am.
However, I don't think I've been all that cavalier today. I'm very possibly playing differently than you or most of Salv plays, but that isn't necessarily reckless and it isn't scummy.
Yes. I happen to think that the person who can say "Now we're lynching X" and get something like 3 or 4 votes to move onto them has a lot of sway.
My claim argument against you is, broadly speaking, two-fold. Your claim is not believable and your behavior does not match your claim. These both lead to the conclusion that you're lying about your ability.
Frankly, this accusation isn't one you can respond to. Everyone else needs to individually look at your claim and decide how likely it is to exist.
Two things here. First I need to make sure I'm getting your timeline correct. You got both of your abilities right after Axelrod died?
And secondly: Are you trying to say that you remembered every detail that mattered about every dead person from the middle of day 2 to (at least) day 4? You never once had to look at the original post to grab roles, but at the same time you completely forgot about rider? That boggles my mind.
Hmm, apparently you're right. Seppel asked you to claim anything relevent, you claimed nothing that matters, I asked for a claim from you, you said w/e and claimed that you stared at corpses, kraj pointed out that's not a claim, and then you claimed to rolecop dead people. I apologize for getting this wrong.
I'm not saying you have a secret way to gain points. I'm saying that you don't have the 6 cost ability.
This was a random aside because it felt weird that your two aspects had nothing to do with each other. Even though this has nothing to do with it, I just remembered that Raf's abilities are kinda similar in that they only sync up with a lot of stretching.
Yeah, I'd skimmed your post because I had class in like half an hour. Man why didn't you say this as soon as I started this whole thing?
Apart from the stylistic differences (I like being all shouty and you like to be more studied) these both serve the same purpose. However, the motivations are different. When a mafia member makes a case on someone, they need to twist innocent mistakes and lack of clarity into deliberate distortions. Your post does that. (the 'Just how many more clauses to your ability are you intending to pull out of your ass here? ' bit is just a reskinned way of asking when I stopped beating my wife.) My post, on the other hand, is dealing with a claim that contradicts known information.
(Since I've been arguing elsewhere where people have been using different definitions than me and I haven't noticed until way too late where they're basically just saying 'no u', I want to make sure we're using the same definition of barn. Basically a yes-man who tries to hide behind someone else?)
What? Where the hell did barning Ash come from? This is just ludicrous.
What do we gain by acting like only two scum are left? What we lose is potentially the game, so I'd like for there to be a decently-sized upside.
Yeah, that Seppel. I thought he was scum, but I highly doubt that the mafia took "ewie thinks Seppel is scum" into their consideration, unless they really wanted to make me look like a fool today. (Hint: they didn't)
And if you're trying to push for one more mislynch why wouldn't you kill the guy with a lot of sway in the town who very well might save the person you want to be going after?
No, it's analysis of claims. But no matter what you want to call it doesn't change its validity.
It is a reasonable argument to make. Your ability having zero use as long as the town performs what was probably the only obvious action this game is unique among all the people in this game.
That's not impossible, but it gives the town as a whole no way to confirm your ability. Also in the months since rider's death I'm surprised that you never tried to look up the roles people had and get stonewalled by rider.
Where some people who claimed are the ones who hadn't and people were telling you to claim. I mean, not fully claiming after the town yelled at you multiple times to actually claim what your abilities are isn't less suspicious or anything, but I can replace this contention with that.
Yup. Because Arim had an ability that didn't cost points but got a couple points to use the one that did. And Raf too, if I'm remembering correctly. I mean, Arim, RR, Ash, Cubus and I think raf all had abilities that cost points and just enough points to use them instead of a point generator.
Hey, how does the flavor between "I look at dead people" and "I can gain any role from any game that Az has modded" sync up?
Your ability costs 6. DYH's ability costs 5. This is a suspicious thing.
Well, you're the only one who kept on getting confused and you're the only one who, when he didn't understand how my ability works, jumped into the thread with an "AHA! I CAUGHT YOU NOW!"
What, no. That's a terrible idea. Don't do that. Kill dC instead.
I don't remember it exactly and don't have time to check this (I will do it later this week or over the weekend though), but late day 3 a lot of people were going "Hey, maybe ewie is lurking scum" and you were in among those, and then for most of day 4 you were calling me town until near the end when I became scum in your eyes again.
*adhoms the **** outta u*
So I assume you're just treating today as done?
---------------------
RANDOM WEIRD STUFF CYAN AND DC HAVE DONE:
This isn't complete and is because I haven't reread and won't be able to until Thursday or more likely Friday at the earliest.
dC:
*Claimed an ability that was entirely usurped by the game rules
*Didn't use it in the one place it could have mattered
*Didn't claim an ability during massclaim
*Claims to have an ability that costs 6 with no way of getting points [Note: I'm pretty sure that nobody else has claimed to have an ability they didn't have the points to use at least once or a built-in way of gaining points.]
*His 6 cost ability is the same as a 5 cost ability the scum have.
*Consistently misinterpreted statements about my role and every time used it as some proof of me lying and string claiming (everything I've claimed about my role was either directly stated or a simple extrapolation of my claim post)
Cyan:
*Tried to take his vote off of DYH with ~3 hours left in the day.
*reversed his stance on me when I became a more likely lynch.
*Three bullet points looks way better than two.
Well, unless DV is scum we can blow up the ghost pendant tonight if we lynch town, so it's not impossible for three scum to not have us at LoL.
But if you think that there are three scum, that two of them aren't in {Cyan, Abbey or DV} but that DV is scum and that the scum would ninja any townie and have been around to, then I guess your logic makes me scum.
And there's no need that all of Abbey, DV and Cyan be scum for me to not have been speed lynched. If two of them are, or if there are two scum, the mafia wouldn't be willing to throw the game on killing me when it's plain that the town is going to anyways.
Ah, but what if it is I who has told YOU so?!
There are all sorts of defenses. Maybe you thought that him having a less vanilla role would keep him out of the noose. Maybe your rolecop isn't as it appears. I could keep guessing hypotheticals but there's really no point.
I mean the idea of a 6 cost ability when someone has no natural way of getting points is still bogus as all get out. Why, when you get an ability that he kept hidden, is known to be a scum's future ability and he has no way to ever use, would you ask about it and accept his explanation at face value?
Not really. I mean, now DYH's copier is supposed to be totally different than his other uninherited abilities at your say-so when it's probably LoL.
Cyan, I was serious when I asked why I went from townie to scum in your eyes.
Like I said, there's no reason to believe that dC has to spend more for an ability than DYH. Nothing else in this game's like that and if DYH inherited the ability from dC somehow, it wouldn't make sense for the price to drop.
Are there any other examples of costs of abilities changing between different people who can use them?
Copier costs 5, not 6. BAM MR MAN
And no, abilities having different costs for different people is unbelievable.
It's really unlikely, sure. But it's possible and if there are 2 scum and DV is one of them, an immediate self-vote by kpaca stops the scum from running anybody up. It gives us a chance instead of just losing straight up.
If I'm scum, there's really no reason for me to hammer rider here. The advantage of his analysis isn't worth the chance of me squeaking out of this, especially as rider's existence doesn't change the number of mislynches we have.
RR, is there a way to un-ghost Ash? If town is lynched today, we might need to gamble on nobody with access being scum and getting to buy an extra day by giving him the vote back.