I don't know what you want me to say. He's acted wacky and played like crap. He's still not scum. You trying to get him lynched reflects badly on you.
I'm saying that there are a lot of people who are suspicious of Seppel but aren't voting him because "he's that bad." Apparently the reason that you want me lynched is because I don't buy too terrible to be scum defenses in general.
Quote from zindabad »
It is buried in this monster thread, but I've already summarized why Seppel is town: his plans come out of a genuine attempt to find scum, or failing that, to improve the town's position. See D_V's "faeries can't vote me" gambit in Kithkin Mafia. That was the same kind of loopy stuff that we've seen from Seppel in this game and it was a lie like Seppel's lies, but it didn't suddenly make D_V scum, because he was honestly trying to trap scum with it.
I believe that you would be hard pressed to find Seppel looking for scum that aren't voting him. If you think I've been wanting to kill Seppel because of townie gambits, then you're wrong. I love watching townie gambits. I don't think that seppel's gambits made sense for a townie to do.
Also, I didn't say anything about any defenses of Seppel, I said there's even fewer who find him scummy. The only one attacking him now is you. Says it all really. You're scum and I'll stop at nothing to see you dead.
Remember when the whole thread wanted Seppel dead? And then people started unvoting because he could be that dumb? Yeah. That.
Quote from zindabad »
You guys can even vig me tonight whether or not UI is scum - in fact, I'm rapidly warming to the idea. I don't have a particularly valuable ability, and what I do have, someone else will almost certainly inherit, and I think my coming up town will sweep away a lot of the squid-ink cloud of WIFOM that is obscuring this game. As it is, my opinion doesn't seem to carry a lot of weight with you, largely because of my poor play through D3 of this game and the continuing stigma of my associations with iLord and DYH. I think I may well be worth more to the town dead than alive.
If you're scum, keep doing this. If you're town, cut it out.
It doesn't really matter whom owns Zindabad's ability, because they're going to use it if we tell them to.
If they claim and switch to it, yeah.
Quote from Cyan »
I think you're really reaching here, RafK. DYH definitely targeted me with his Lunatic Aspect, before he targeted Zindabad. If your supposition is that DYH could switch between the Maelstrom and Lunatic Aspect, then there is no reason for the Lunatic Aspect to include the word 'Must' in the role PM in the first place.
4. desCoures - Hasn't really been setting off my scumdar though, at all, but I also can't really recall him doing a great deal.
Isn't he the only person with a literally useless ability? That smells a little of him covering something up.
I haven't thought this all the way through, but we could confirm his ability by turning off revealed role PMs and finishing up our claims. (abbey's the only holdout with the abilities he started with, I think)
Quote from Raf »
Thinking over all that, while I am suspicious of zind and do want to read UI's day 2 and day 3 without thinking he's clear from my ability, I guess DV is still the guy I most want dead- but his possession of the control pad complicates things enormously.
He also can't be lynched today if you want to get the vig off, so we have to kick this one down the road. (I feel a little bit better about DV than kpaca)
@Zindabad: I don't think that anyone is arguing that you just fabricated the whole thing. From reading DYH's Role PM, it is clearly stated that he *must* target someone.
It is also clearly stated that DYH inherited this aspect. He wasn't faking it.
I suppose it is a possibility that DYH could choose to use the Maelstrom Gate/Aspect instead of using his Lunatic Aspect, but we have no way whatsoever of verifying this, which makes it feel dangerously speculative to me.
The only real questions that can be asked are as follows:
A)Did DYH knowingly target a scumbuddy, as a gambit? This is obviously possible, but does not come across to me as particularly likely. While DYH is known for bussing scumbuddies, he is not known for being involved in gambits, particularly ones that involve another player. Also, choosing Zindabad doesn't make a great deal of sense there. If DYH were scum and wanting to 'get cred' by RBing a buddy, it seems like he would have made the obvious choice, which was Ilord.
The other possibility is that mafia factioning is a part of this, but I could only see that being the case if 'mafia factioning' means 'the game has 2 mafia groups'..and I really, really doubt that the game has 2 mafia groups, but only one gets a kill.
Well there's also the play of roleblocking and killing the same person, but that's by-and-large the same category.
No, not everyone agrees that. That wasn't very subtle, UI.
1. abbeygargoyle - Thinks I'm town 2. Ash LV 426 - Thinks I'm town 3. cyan - Agrees I'm scummy (at least for the next 5 minutes) but thinks I'm town 4. desCoures - Hell-bent on getting me killed. 5. kpaca, replacing HKKID - I'm alternatively his #1 or #2 suspect. 6. rafaelk - Has expressed suspicion. 7. robroy - Has expressed suspicion 8. seppel - Thinks one of us is scum (hint: it's you.) 9. uncle istvun 10. ShadowKnight, replacing Loran16, replacing YossarianLives - Hasn't said a word about me 11. zindabad 12. Deaths Vampire, replacing Cropcircles - Thinks I'm scum
13. rider - Last I checked, thinks I'm town.
Oh, sorry. It's apparently only seven of us (including arim) that have said your posts were scummy or that you seem really off. My bad.
Quote from zindabad »
There's even fewer who find Seppel scummy.
The only defense of Seppel's play that I remember is Cyan saying that yes, Seppel is as dumb as he would need to be in order to not be scum.
Quote from zindabad »
That seemed like an attempt to discredit us by appealing to mob mentality - and even if it were true, the reason you are getting flak for trying to kill one of us is that there are other reasons to believe at least me town. Some of these players have stated they found me suspicious, but are ultimately swayed by the simple fact that none of my detractors have yet been able to explain away, and that is that I was roleblocked by a scum.
Yes, you were but people are arguing that the fact I wasn't swayed by that makes me scum, which is just
if the idea of aspect toggling is to lock me into the vig mode, though, we must bear in mind that it is dependent on DV being alive and with the remote (yes, if he's alive, AG could retrieve the remote, but that skips a night anyway). With point sharing turned on- it DID pass the vote, right?- I don't know that I wouldn't prefer more to have cop mode available tomorrow night. On the other hand, as far as I know, based on what is public (lots), no-one else should be affected- except of course it might prevent scum from switching into something if they aren't already there, which is not a terrible idea. Hm.
Wait, since the rule change happens at the end of today, wouldn't you be locked into your current ability and not the vig?
Everytime I read one of Zindabad's posts, I feel like he is scum. I just can't reconcile an RB that is forced to use his ability each night, and that learns of whatever ability he blocked, targetting a buddy. It seems like too much loss/risk for what is gained.
Like in his last post, where he says 'you can get a shot off before being NKed' and immediately follows this up with 'I don't trust you', which is just a nice way of saying that he thinks RafK is scum. So which is it?
But then, there is UI. He had a go at Seppel, and had a go at Zindabad, and has come out of each looking worse, IMO. If we're not going to lynch Kpaca, it should be UI.
How have I 'come off worse'? And it seems like everyone agrees that behaviorally they're both really scummy so I really don't get why there's so much hostility to my wanting to get one or both of them killed. You cones.
Wow. Over 5,000 posts and 9 days left to pick someone to lynch.
Let's disable aspect toggling and get this show on the road, people.
(1) Who are we lynching?
(2) Who are we vigging?
(3) Who are we GPing?
Can I get everyone's opinions on that?
1. kpaca
2. you or zind (much prefer you)
3. I like Ash here but RR and S_K being unpredictable is much better for us. (I see the argument that the scum can NK robroy to bring ash back into the game, but I think that it's worth it to vig use tonight's kill on a non-ash and maybe need to lynch/vig ash later instead of vigging ash now and ghostingsome random)
Now see, I'm really confused how you could go from completely accurate about iLord, then... completely inaccurate about everything else (well at least me).
Even though this looks horrible on you, I still think you're town, unfortunately.
So I'm assuming this is another one of your 'voting seppel is scummy' posts?
"Two mislynches in a row"? So now I'm back to being town, even though you're still voting me?
Hypothetical, dork. Or, I'm sorry, are you under the impression I'm 100% you're scum? This is so so stupid.
Quote from zindabad »
You got a bit of backlash from your opportunistic vote on me while still paying lip service to lynching Seppel, so now it's time to back off, is that it, and revert to trying to indict Seppel for his "dichotomy" statement. You can't have it both ways. It looks to me like you think we're the townies in the weakest positions and you're just trying to test which way the wind is blowing.
I THINK THAT BOTH OF YOU ARE SCUM. I CAN MAKE ARGUMENTS AGAINST TWO PEOPLE AT THE SAME TIME. THIS PARAGRAPH IS YOU BEING AMAZINGLY STUPID.
Quote from zindabad »
Can we just lynch this scum already? [/cyan] And then vig dC?
That isn't the case and you know it. Me and other people have mentioned suspicion of you before,
Yes, many people have said things like "UI seems scummy to me" or "I would be fine with a UI lynch" and abbey's said "UI is not playing like I remember him at tings", which is at least something. But I did like how you've gone from 'I read the first 700 posts and he seemed town but I'm still voting him' to 'the first 700 posts were the only time he was townie everything else he's done is scummy'.
Quote from Seppel »
and your current attack, which seems like an attempt to stop me from even trying to do a case, is making you look worse.
We can just go ahead and lynch you now, if that's what you want.
Are you talking about the "Let's lynch seppel if we can" that caused you to vote me or the "You're making up a case and twisting your previous posts to get me killed"?
Summary: Everything he did after attacking iLord unprovoked at the beginning of the game (which is his strong, but only point in favor of him) has raised suspicion.
I'll get to making an "after post 700" case on Ewie at some point. :/
This is a brilliant case. I love how everything that you haven't looked at is scummy and 'has raised suspicion'.
I believe that you would be hard pressed to find Seppel looking for scum that aren't voting him. If you think I've been wanting to kill Seppel because of townie gambits, then you're wrong. I love watching townie gambits. I don't think that seppel's gambits made sense for a townie to do.
Hey zindabad, see this exchange? This is EXACTLY what I had been talking about re: Seppel.
I Am Glad To See That We Can All Get Along.
Because we could instead lynch scum? Seriously, why do you want me dead?
Also seppel: it's a terrible idea to lynch people based off of usefulness and you don't qualify as useful.
Remember when the whole thread wanted Seppel dead? And then people started unvoting because he could be that dumb? Yeah. That.
If you're scum, keep doing this. If you're town, cut it out.
If they claim and switch to it, yeah.
He wants to be on lunatic aspect to get a point?
Isn't he the only person with a literally useless ability? That smells a little of him covering something up.
I haven't thought this all the way through, but we could confirm his ability by turning off revealed role PMs and finishing up our claims. (abbey's the only holdout with the abilities he started with, I think)
He also can't be lynched today if you want to get the vig off, so we have to kick this one down the road. (I feel a little bit better about DV than kpaca)
There's never been an actual case that people are willing to point to ;_;
Well there's also the play of roleblocking and killing the same person, but that's by-and-large the same category.
The only defense of Seppel's play that I remember is Cyan saying that yes, Seppel is as dumb as he would need to be in order to not be scum.
Yes, you were but people are arguing that the fact I wasn't swayed by that makes me scum, which is just
Wait, since the rule change happens at the end of today, wouldn't you be locked into your current ability and not the vig?
How have I 'come off worse'? And it seems like everyone agrees that behaviorally they're both really scummy so I really don't get why there's so much hostility to my wanting to get one or both of them killed. You cones.
1. kpaca
2. you or zind (much prefer you)
3. I like Ash here but RR and S_K being unpredictable is much better for us. (I see the argument that the scum can NK robroy to bring ash back into the game, but I think that it's worth it to vig use tonight's kill on a non-ash and maybe need to lynch/vig ash later instead of vigging ash now and ghostingsome random)
If the game is not over, Cyan is
If the game STILL isn't over, hit abbey.
If Raf gives you a cop result, trust it because he's town. Don't lynch S_K. RR is town.
I THINK THAT BOTH OF YOU ARE SCUM. I CAN MAKE ARGUMENTS AGAINST TWO PEOPLE AT THE SAME TIME. THIS PARAGRAPH IS YOU BEING AMAZINGLY STUPID.
This is an absurd plan that is super low odds.
No there's not. We've had virtually no interaction at night and calling something a dichotomy like that is an easy way to get two mislynches in a row.
Shadow, why shouldn't we just GP Ash so kraj can still post? He's probably the best poster the townies have.
Are you talking about the "Let's lynch seppel if we can" that caused you to vote me or the "You're making up a case and twisting your previous posts to get me killed"?
This is a brilliant case. I love how everything that you haven't looked at is scummy and 'has raised suspicion'.