No, I'm pretty sure zind just accused you of switching your vote wherever you feel is easiest. I'm sure he has called Seppel terrible at some point, but that's not what his last post says.
Yes, but that's not what Seppel was talking about.
You do not lynch someone who is highly expected to be killed by the mafia:
You aren't, doofus.
Quote from Seppel »
You want me dead because you need any of Abbey, Cyan, RR, RafK and I dead or else you'll be caught,
How's this then?
Quote from Seppel »
and you don't want to waste a kill on the doc while the information roles are still at large, so you're trying to get me lynched.
You're not one.
Quote from Seppel »
And I'm the easiest target.
The hell thread you reading?
Quote from Seppek »
With so many potentially damning information roles still alive (one of which may be your partner because damn is the town looking powerful if they're all town) and no strong case on ANY of them, you default to me.
The guy with a case on him. Yes. Good Job.
Quote from Seppel »
Oh right and Zindabad completely destroyed your case against me.
Yet you're still trying to attack me, now even without reasons.
You don't have a case.
Vote stands.
I have no clue what you're talking about here. Didn't he just say "Yeah Seppel is that terrible"?
zindabad: if I can make it happen I will and the town's totally stalling right now.
I agree. Putting Ash into Exile seems like a quality idea. It still alows Kraj to post, which is obviously important, and it eliminates the possibility of the scum using Ash later. Or at least, as RafK said, we'll know if they're going to.
This is a good idea.
Quote from Cyan »
I don't see how Zindabad can not be considered town. He hasn't played a scummy game at all. He has played a bad game at alot of points, but I think it's still apparent that his heart was in the right place.
Most of the time his posts seem totally townie, but there are these bits where what he says is just so off.
First there is RobRoy, who is/was in a dichotomous situation with another player. That player was just effectively mod confirmed as town(unless you think that Loran was trying to steal an item from his own scumbuddy..which I guess is possible..especially if he thought that Ilord should have an item from killing Axelrod..maybe he thought he could activate it, even though Ilord couldn't...blah what a headache). Instead of trying to work out this situation, RR just tries to brush it under the rug and move back to the lowest hanging fruit, Kpaca(admittedly, I'm still of the mindset that Kpaca is scum anyway).
I know I haven't been really able to post, but I disagree here. We don't have enough information to be certain that someone's lying and since I've been reading both of them as town I think we should leave this and lynch seppel.
Quote from Cyan »
Then Shadow Knight comes along and goes along with it! This reminds me eerily of Ilord vs. RR earlier, where Ilord tried to run RR up, RR presented the flimsiest of excuses, and Ilord just blankly accepted it all. I'm really having a hard time accepting a town SK just letting RR off of the hook completely here.
This is a different situation than iLord vs. RR and, I'd like to remind you, there actually was no dichtomy there. We pretty much just got lucky.
Raf, your argument with Cyan is going to go exactly like the one I had with him at the start of today. I'd suggest reading over that before you continue.
1. The item description of the Maelstrom Gate says anyone who kills its owner gets the item.
2. Abbey Gargoyle placed the lynching vote on DYH.
3. DYH is listed as the "controller" of the Maelstrom Gate in the first post.
4. Every dead player listed as an "owner" of an item is confirmed not to have had it in their possession on death. Every dead player listed as a "controller" is either confirmed to have that item in their possession on death or there is no information to suggest otherwise.
5. Abbey Gargoyle claims not to have the Maelstrom Gate.
Those are all facts, which all indicate AG should have possession of the MG. There are no facts that indicate other. When confronted with these facts and my accusation of lying, his only explanations were speculations of how he legimitately might not have the item, but that failed to account for all the facts. When I pointed these flaws out, he completely ignored them in favor of sarcasm and attempts to discredit me. He has since responded to any inquiries about his role, night actions, etc., with vague and or dodgy comments.
My problem with this is part 2. I do not believe that by placing the last vote on them, you're considered to have killed them and by looking at most princess/bomb type roles "the player that killed you or the player that put the last vote on you dies", most mods don't either. I'm also not sure that DYH would be listed as a controller of the item if Abbey took it as he killed DYH.
Quote from Ash »
I'd say that was extremely helpful, arim. Especially in clearing up the RR torture mystery.
Kraj
Hey, question for the thread:
Arim started with 0 points. How did he get the two that he needed to dominate RR? I still largely believe him, but that bit's nagging at me.
Also while I'd rather kill Seppel, that's not going to happen today and there seem to have been a couple good explanations for why scum-zindabad would have been blocked, so unvote, vote: zindabad
Question for RR: Your vote was entirely your own that day, right? (If you don't respond to this, I'll assume the answer is 'no and I can't say that')
Good posting. And thanks for reminding me about Cyan's attempt to stop DYH from being lynched. I can't believe that went so unnoticed.
Unvote, vote Cyan
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...
...what Are you kidding me? Really? Well, now I guess I know seppel doesn't read ANYTHING I post. Also it's clear that you're not going to get lynched today, so I'm going to take a step back and try to start again.
@ Kraj I believe that you are wrong about the mafia being able to not win inside if ash if they are. Just my interpratation of reading.
@ Everyone this I feel is very important. A lot of people are saying that Kpaca replacing into Hkid could have made him scum. This is completely and totally false. This is because the few of us ash that can escape take our win cons with us. So, for example. X player is town. X player replaces into Y scum player. X player keeps their townie win con, and does not keep their non townie win con. Also, just to make sure everyone knows this, the replace in thing is an ability that costs a point to use. I started out with two points and one of them I had to use to bring in another player into ash. The other one I could use to upload myself into another body. Which CC did. This is why Kraj cannot replace in I believe because he has no points/maybe a different role pm than me.
This is a different scenario. HKKID was an original personality who brought in kpaca and then left Ash. kpaca then brought in kraj. Sometime after that he disappeared, so instead of taking somebody totally new and giving them HKKID's role, he took kpaca and replaced him into HKKID's role. Basically the best way to think about it is to think of kpaca's original role as still being there, but with no player filling it.
Perhaps I'm paranoid, perhaps it's because I've lost a fair number of games by making bad assumptions, but let me make sure I understand the Ashians before I go too far.
Correct me if I'm wrong in stating that the Ashians are also Borg - is this not so -?
Huh? I have no clue what you mean here.
Quote from rider »
Now, that Azrael confirmed he sent the PM information to DV doesn't mean DV reported it truthfully. Or am I missing some step there? It's not like ash-Kraj is going to be like "FOILED DV, I CAUGHT YOU IN A LIE! I'M SCUM NOT TOWN !111eleventyone!1" if DV lies there...
The point of that is that there are now both kpaca and D_V vouching for kraj's alignment. It's possible that all three of them are scum together, but that both seems really unlikely and would get caught out by killing either of the 'independent' Ashes, which appears to be our plan.
Quote from rider »
How does the town know that the Borg members don't have a collective interest outside that of the town (Such as an alternate win condition)?
We'll almost certainly find out when we vig kpaca.
You have more than 50% of the living players as possible scum. That's not process of elimination, that's more of a shotgun accusation. (If the spread is wide enough, then you might hit scum.) I can understand why you'd call yourself town, regardless of whether you are or not. I know rider is death confirmed town. Because I know you're one of the most prolific posters in this thread, I'd like you to state which posts and actions make you feel each of the other players is town or scum. In a game where roles were doled out randomly, I'm not prepared to believe anyone is town based on their role. I want behaviors and actual posts to back up your assertions. What posts make you think RobRoy, zindabad, and kpaca are town? What are the points for and against Abbey, D_V, Rafael, and Cyan? What are the posts that make you think DC, me, and UI are scum? Its all well and good to post a list like that, but I'd like to hear the reasoning behind it.
Watch out. If you bug him for his reasoning, he might eventualy throw something like this at you. WHAT WOULD YOU DO THEN?
Night 1 DYH blocked zindabad
Night 2 DYH blocked Cyan
Night 2 RobRoy claimed to have been tortured
So if we can assume robroy is town and there is nobody else that can torture, cpe turned on DYH's inheritances and Cyan is lying scum. Right now I think this is just something to keep in mind, but it does make me want to get a mass-claim started.
I was trying to say that I agree that CF's Meltdown Aspect wouldn't go into effect as long as PM was alive..because if it does go into effect while PM is alive, he has absolutely no way to win the game, which is like the cardinal sin of mafia.
PM's ability wouldn't be hit by the meltdown aspect.
Quote from Cyan »
If you're RR and figure that Ilord is going down anyway, why not get some kind of benefit out of it? I think that the scum must have realized that, once DYH's role PM was spoiled, Ilord was going to be dead in the water. Mise well get some benefit from it all. I think that Ilord probably concocted this morning's 'I tried to RB the person that tortured RR' fiasco, figuring that it would result in one of them getting dead, which would effectively confirm the other. This makes ALOT more sense than a scum trying to pin down someone that they KNOW is town in such a weak sense. Plus, if Ilord is successful in getting RR lynched there and RR flips town, Ilord is just dead tomorrow.
Are you talking about the DYH lynch that caused virtually the entire thread to call iLord town? The only reason iLord died today was because of the gambit he pulled.
Quote from Cyan »
RR definitely went to bat for Ilord some. Also important in this is that, while doing so, he subtlely pushed against SB(such as in the post that I mentioned).
I disagree with this. RR had been voting SB from before the BRB. I really don't see RR's play as subtle manipulation.
With the way PM's Aspect(s) worked, he would have to be dead for CF's Meltdown Aspect to come online, otherwise he has absolutely no way to win the game. So, I don't think that point is particularly salient.
Quote from Meltdown Aspect »
If you are the last living scum, all town-controlled night and day abilities, items, and aspects will be disabled so long as this aspect is selected.
I do think that the meltdown didn't apply as long as PM was alive though. Az should count an SK as scum.
Quote from Cyan »
As Kraj and I were discussing earlier, I'm not convinced that any particular role is the Godfather. I think that the Godfather title was just assigned to one of the scum, and granted them some unknown ability/abilities(NK immunity, investigation immunity, w/e). If this is the case, I believe that Ilord was the Godfather. Honestly, Ilord being the Godfather is the only rational explanation for DYH's behavior towards him. If you look back at DYH, he was at Ilord for virtually the entire game..even on Day 1 when he was campaigning against SB, he repeatedly expressed the willingness to see Ilord dead.
It was RobRoy who theorized that day 1, wasn't it? Grak's "knowing too much" tell is flashing in my head.
Quote from Cyan »
Honestly, I don't see why we haven't mass-claimed at this point. The majority of the roles are out in the open, and I think that knowing the rest of the claims would really help us fill in the gaps here. I certainly can't see it giving the scum some huge advantage. The Revival Chamber is destroyed, and RafK has already claimed to have a point-based Alignment Cop ability. What exactly are we hoping to protect by hiding it here?
I'd be up for it.
Quote from Cyan »
Also, something that seems important when looking over Day 1, knowing that Ilord was scum(and that SB was town), is this post, by RobRoy.
Knowing that Ilord was scum and SB was town, this seems like an extremely heavy point against RR.
Kind of like the fact that he has virtually disappeared today since we made him use his ability to kill Ilord.
I'll go back and read some more of Day 1 to see what other interactions they had, I suppose.
I'd been re-reading DYH's history today (Didn't find much interesting other than him talking about you a lot and always leaving you on his 'leans scummy' list), and I think I saw RR go to bat for iLord a bit.
The big question I have is "Why would RR claim his daykill earlier today if he's scum?" (Also what was the point of having 'confirmed' iLord jump into a dichtomy with Rob?)
Quote from Cyan »
@Zindabad: Either you think someone is town, or, you don't. If you don't, you don't keep them alive.
I dunno. Keeping PM on a leash would have been pretty rad.
Yes, but that's not what Seppel was talking about.
How's this then? You're not one. The hell thread you reading?
The guy with a case on him. Yes. Good Job.
I have no clue what you're talking about here. Didn't he just say "Yeah Seppel is that terrible"?
zindabad: if I can make it happen I will and the town's totally stalling right now.
Most of the time his posts seem totally townie, but there are these bits where what he says is just so off.
Gimme a reason, mr. scum
This is a different situation than iLord vs. RR and, I'd like to remind you, there actually was no dichtomy there. We pretty much just got lucky.
My problem with this is part 2. I do not believe that by placing the last vote on them, you're considered to have killed them and by looking at most princess/bomb type roles "the player that killed you or the player that put the last vote on you dies", most mods don't either. I'm also not sure that DYH would be listed as a controller of the item if Abbey took it as he killed DYH.
Hey, question for the thread:
Arim started with 0 points. How did he get the two that he needed to dominate RR? I still largely believe him, but that bit's nagging at me.
Also while I'd rather kill Seppel, that's not going to happen today and there seem to have been a couple good explanations for why scum-zindabad would have been blocked, so unvote, vote: zindabad
Question for RR: Your vote was entirely your own that day, right? (If you don't respond to this, I'll assume the answer is 'no and I can't say that')
No, rider. Bad. Stop taking joke asides and assuming they're serious.
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...what Are you kidding me? Really? Well, now I guess I know seppel doesn't read ANYTHING I post. Also it's clear that you're not going to get lynched today, so I'm going to take a step back and try to start again.
This is a different scenario. HKKID was an original personality who brought in kpaca and then left Ash. kpaca then brought in kraj. Sometime after that he disappeared, so instead of taking somebody totally new and giving them HKKID's role, he took kpaca and replaced him into HKKID's role. Basically the best way to think about it is to think of kpaca's original role as still being there, but with no player filling it.
The point of that is that there are now both kpaca and D_V vouching for kraj's alignment. It's possible that all three of them are scum together, but that both seems really unlikely and would get caught out by killing either of the 'independent' Ashes, which appears to be our plan.
We'll almost certainly find out when we vig kpaca.
Watch out. If you bug him for his reasoning, he might eventualy throw something like this at you. WHAT WOULD YOU DO THEN?
Vote Point Sharing: Enable
Night 1 DYH blocked zindabad
Night 2 DYH blocked Cyan
Night 2 RobRoy claimed to have been tortured
So if we can assume robroy is town and there is nobody else that can torture, cpe turned on DYH's inheritances and Cyan is lying scum. Right now I think this is just something to keep in mind, but it does make me want to get a mass-claim started.
Are you talking about the DYH lynch that caused virtually the entire thread to call iLord town? The only reason iLord died today was because of the gambit he pulled.
I disagree with this. RR had been voting SB from before the BRB. I really don't see RR's play as subtle manipulation.
I do think that the meltdown didn't apply as long as PM was alive though. Az should count an SK as scum.
It was RobRoy who theorized that day 1, wasn't it? Grak's "knowing too much" tell is flashing in my head.
I'd be up for it.
I'd been re-reading DYH's history today (Didn't find much interesting other than him talking about you a lot and always leaving you on his 'leans scummy' list), and I think I saw RR go to bat for iLord a bit.
The big question I have is "Why would RR claim his daykill earlier today if he's scum?" (Also what was the point of having 'confirmed' iLord jump into a dichtomy with Rob?)
I dunno. Keeping PM on a leash would have been pretty rad.