Because people telling you outright that you're wrong backed with arguments based in reality versus your imaginary Christmas Land logic is totally trolling.
Trolling would be stringing you along for pages saying "NO YOU" a lot. Which one of us is trolling? It certainly doesn't look like us. This seems strangely reminiscent of the time we laughed you off of the R/x forums, because you behaved in much the same way you did here. The difference is the people on that forum are all above-average thinkers, so the cult of personality attempt wasn't going to work there. Of course, you've already distributed the Kool Aid here, so we were too late to save these fine gentleman, but maybe next time...
You mean RR for what before Advent of the Wurm and Thundermaw come down? 3? Once either of them hits, making a comeback is extremely difficult when your deck runs Dreadbore and Mortars for their removal... I fail to see what you are getting at? That I should have 1 of my 2 dreadbores? (Which is very standard for Dega Midrange). Even slotting in Ultimate Price hardly had an impact.
Add Farseek into the equation and your idea of how good RR is continues to diminish in how effective it is in the match. Outside of AfB hand disruption is still weak in the match no mater how you dice it.
You know, Duressing away Farseeks is a real play that real players do. I never said anything about Rakdos' Return, as I would more likely play Mind Rot over Rakdos' Return simply with other midrange matchups in mind. Coming down on 3 is relevant. You aren't trying to beat Sphinx's Revelation with Rakdos' Return so the only upside that RR has to Mind Rot is hitting Planeswalkers.
Also, Kamahl, if you're about to argue to me that card quality doesn't matter when deck building, you might just get laughed off of this forum. Please keep that in mind.
I ran through multiple iterations, from the standard list and through my prep lists. We also went over tweaks we thought would shore up the match and played them out and it was still a horrid match. It was a conclusion based on the deck not having tools to combat Naya. Feel free to ignore what I am saying, I only played with the guy and went over the lists and options. He made very little mention of Purge the Profane outside of that it led him to some awkward hands while playing Naya Midrange. I will also point out that those were the 2 unorthodox cards in the list outside of the changes for cards like Ultimate Price and Vampire Nighthawk to shore up the Naya Midrange match before we came to the conclusion that it was a match that might as well just be pushed off as completely unfavorable.
Naya is pretty soft to hand disruption and removal, so I'm really failing to see how you could not shore up a matchup when you're already in colors that do these two things extremely well. Appetite for Brains and Duress are extremely good against all midrange decks. Yanking Huntmasters and Bonfires is literally the best way to win the matchup.
That statement was made about the entire Archetype, not specifically my deck. If I had a penny for every post you took out of context...
LK stated Dega was not even close to being capable of handling the Naya Midrange list.
Exactly, and my point is that perhaps it wasn't the archetype, but the guy playing the archetype, especially considering the card choices you've championed in this thread just over the past few pages.
LP is a good player, I wouldn't be shocked to hear that he beat a guy who had worse cards in his deck, even if they were playing the exact same archetype. If the deck had all of the "right" cards in it, perhaps he would have had a more difficult time beating you and thus his conclusion wouldn't have come down so harshly.
Is lauohiette part of FoS? I swore I remember him posting playtest results from games he had with kamahl in this thread. I just want to clarify that kamahl isn't lying.
Nope, he's not lying, but what LK did say in that post is that he thinks the deck is trash. That being said, it's likely because the guy playing it was playing bad cards like Purge the Profane, so it really isn't a slight against the entire deck as much as it was one guy playing it, or at least we know that now.
... because your vacuum of knowledge supersedes actual experience with the deck? I believe AJ Sacher wrote one of the best articles ever written about teaching a man to fish...
Hate to break it to you, buddy, but midrange is midrange is midrange, and I've played a LOT of midrange decks over the years, and none of them want to intentionally play strictly worse cards than one that are available to them. Many of the best reasons to play midrange lists at all is to be able to play as many of the "best" cards in the format as you can.
Specifically, Dega has access to all of the best hand disruption and removal, but for some reason you intentionally go out of your way to play the worst possible versions of both of these things and you're telling me that my vacuum of knowledge isn't relevant? Please, tell me more about how Angel's Mercy is playable because of Burning-Tree Emissary decks!
I think you should reconsider how this deck actually works.
I top at about 6 land, everything else is tossed to Lootings because 6 mana is the sweet spot, the rest is complete fodder for Faithless Looting.
This is like me going into a modern thread and rambling about **** I haven not played enough to understand just because.
You guys are goddamn champions!
We're all very proud that you've played a deck more than us. Now respond with actual sound information instead of "Nu-uh!" (Like, by the way, I said earlier in this thread that you would.)
I give 2 flying ****s about how much damage I just domed them for, that has never been the selling point of Rakdos's Return for me, ever.
So instead you're playing a card that is effectively 1 extra mana for 2 life and a higher strain on the mana base than other available options? (A la Mind Rot.) Makes perfect sense! Get this man a Mathlete medal.
I'm not sure how you are not seeing the obvious flaw in your logic, it seems like you're the only one missing it.
And you still ****ing ignore what I wrote about cmeks and his understanding of how I used cockatrice... you are a complete piece of work.
I would suggest that if you're going to name drop, that you don't name drop Fires of Salvation members, it's pretty easy for us to know you're full of it.
How is it flaming to point out that saying Purge is better than Return is wrong? I've used Return as a finisher in various decks, so I have experience with it. Plus, by the goals of the game (reduce opponent to 0 life), Return is a much better card. Simply stated, Purge will not win you the game.
By kamahl's own statement, he used Purge to a strong finish in an event, therefore he concluded that it was a good card. That is a hasty generalization, and it leads to people making bad card choices because it worked for them one time.
Just a little example to accompany this post, based on a true story:
One time I won a sealed 1k with a deck that had Auramancer in it. The card must be the bee's knees!
Omitting the fact that the card also had Beloved Chaplain in it as the win condition...
I only logged a handful of hours with Purge on Cockatrice, the rest was from paper with our group and it was about a 14 hour session one day and about 8 the other. Just to clarify cmeks.
Well folks, there's your problem right there!
The competitive section now thinks that results and data gathered on one of the biggest cesspools of terrible players is relevant data. You heard it here first.
It isn't a debate about any single card choice, but the actual understanding of the very fundamentals of deckbuilding that are absent here. He literally just spouts random nonsense and then defends it without logic nor reason, but simply a "Nu-uh! I wrote the primer!" point of view. You aren't growing from that, you're doing the equivalent of attacking into a Wall of Omens with a 1/1.
If you enjoy having ego thrown into your face, I won't argue with you. But to claim that it's anything other than that is a pretty firm mindset of denial.
There's really only one worth testing right now and that's Chandra. Lilliana's Reaver is ass. Short of Doom Blade, there isn't much M14 is adding to the MB for me personally, at least.
I think Ogre Battledriver might be extremely good, but it's hard to really say that with a straight face that it's better than Hellrider. Even so, giving other cards Haste is an extremely powerful effect that I think will be relevant moving forward.
It opens up some other larger drops that aren't Aurelia, too. But for now I think the deck looks okay with just slamming a Chandra.
Well it seems like most of the newer people are only out to get kamahl and outright discredit anything he says. And with the last couple of posts i've seen using sarcasm and direct humility towards him; I'd say this thread has fairly degenerated into just a pissing match between 1 side and another. We desperately need a mod.
That tends to happen when you openly and repeatedly break the cardinal rule of the entire subsection. We're not trying to discredit what he said, yobo has already done a pretty damned good job of that. We're trying to point out to Kahmal and anybody who might be foolish enough to take his word for fact that he isn't the infallible authority that he tries to make himself out to be.
If we're going to post things completely untested, why is it even in the competitive section at all? His type of posting is exactly what this forum was established to AVOID.
I do agree that we need a mod, though. I'd report the thread, but last time I reported a thread for having uncompetitive content I got suspended, so I'll just let Koopa find his way here on his own.
"Card A is better because I feel it's better" arguments should be treated with scorn when they directly contradict actual results or data.
And are essentially against the rules of this forum, by the way. People really should read the fine print closer when they apply to post in this section of the forums.
So we have 6 pages of why Kamahl is terrible and discredited. Purge sucks, shock is bad, he tests crap, etc. We should probably start a new thread to talk about it or move on. Obviously we have a hole at 4 mana, many of you disagree with his choice and that's great. This thread is degenerating and very little of the last several pages have been helpful or given many good ideas for the deck.
There's plenty of 4drops to talk about now that M14 talk is fine, a lot of the previous pages were void of that.
Deceiver Exarch is left behind from an old meta choice. I used to run into a guy who would play Bramblesnap infinite trample combo on me regularly, and I used to use Exarch to tap him down when he tried.
Because people telling you outright that you're wrong backed with arguments based in reality versus your imaginary Christmas Land logic is totally trolling.
Trolling would be stringing you along for pages saying "NO YOU" a lot. Which one of us is trolling? It certainly doesn't look like us. This seems strangely reminiscent of the time we laughed you off of the R/x forums, because you behaved in much the same way you did here. The difference is the people on that forum are all above-average thinkers, so the cult of personality attempt wasn't going to work there. Of course, you've already distributed the Kool Aid here, so we were too late to save these fine gentleman, but maybe next time...
You're like four hours late with that one, brosif.
You know, Duressing away Farseeks is a real play that real players do. I never said anything about Rakdos' Return, as I would more likely play Mind Rot over Rakdos' Return simply with other midrange matchups in mind. Coming down on 3 is relevant. You aren't trying to beat Sphinx's Revelation with Rakdos' Return so the only upside that RR has to Mind Rot is hitting Planeswalkers.
Naya is pretty soft to hand disruption and removal, so I'm really failing to see how you could not shore up a matchup when you're already in colors that do these two things extremely well. Appetite for Brains and Duress are extremely good against all midrange decks. Yanking Huntmasters and Bonfires is literally the best way to win the matchup.
Exactly, and my point is that perhaps it wasn't the archetype, but the guy playing the archetype, especially considering the card choices you've championed in this thread just over the past few pages.
LP is a good player, I wouldn't be shocked to hear that he beat a guy who had worse cards in his deck, even if they were playing the exact same archetype. If the deck had all of the "right" cards in it, perhaps he would have had a more difficult time beating you and thus his conclusion wouldn't have come down so harshly.
Nope, he's not lying, but what LK did say in that post is that he thinks the deck is trash. That being said, it's likely because the guy playing it was playing bad cards like Purge the Profane, so it really isn't a slight against the entire deck as much as it was one guy playing it, or at least we know that now.
Hate to break it to you, buddy, but midrange is midrange is midrange, and I've played a LOT of midrange decks over the years, and none of them want to intentionally play strictly worse cards than one that are available to them. Many of the best reasons to play midrange lists at all is to be able to play as many of the "best" cards in the format as you can.
Specifically, Dega has access to all of the best hand disruption and removal, but for some reason you intentionally go out of your way to play the worst possible versions of both of these things and you're telling me that my vacuum of knowledge isn't relevant? Please, tell me more about how Angel's Mercy is playable because of Burning-Tree Emissary decks!
We're all very proud that you've played a deck more than us. Now respond with actual sound information instead of "Nu-uh!" (Like, by the way, I said earlier in this thread that you would.)
Doom Blade. Doom Blade for daaaaaays. Otherwise not a whole lot.
Trolling -DR
So instead you're playing a card that is effectively 1 extra mana for 2 life and a higher strain on the mana base than other available options? (A la Mind Rot.) Makes perfect sense! Get this man a Mathlete medal.
I'm not sure how you are not seeing the obvious flaw in your logic, it seems like you're the only one missing it.
I would suggest that if you're going to name drop, that you don't name drop Fires of Salvation members, it's pretty easy for us to know you're full of it.
Just a little example to accompany this post, based on a true story:
One time I won a sealed 1k with a deck that had Auramancer in it. The card must be the bee's knees!
Omitting the fact that the card also had Beloved Chaplain in it as the win condition...
Cockatrice results literally mean even less than FNM results, which are not considered to be real results as outlined by the rules of this subforum.
Also some of us know how to differentiate the good players from the bad.
Well folks, there's your problem right there!
The competitive section now thinks that results and data gathered on one of the biggest cesspools of terrible players is relevant data. You heard it here first.
If you enjoy having ego thrown into your face, I won't argue with you. But to claim that it's anything other than that is a pretty firm mindset of denial.
I think Ogre Battledriver might be extremely good, but it's hard to really say that with a straight face that it's better than Hellrider. Even so, giving other cards Haste is an extremely powerful effect that I think will be relevant moving forward.
It opens up some other larger drops that aren't Aurelia, too. But for now I think the deck looks okay with just slamming a Chandra.
That tends to happen when you openly and repeatedly break the cardinal rule of the entire subsection. We're not trying to discredit what he said, yobo has already done a pretty damned good job of that. We're trying to point out to Kahmal and anybody who might be foolish enough to take his word for fact that he isn't the infallible authority that he tries to make himself out to be.
If we're going to post things completely untested, why is it even in the competitive section at all? His type of posting is exactly what this forum was established to AVOID.
I do agree that we need a mod, though. I'd report the thread, but last time I reported a thread for having uncompetitive content I got suspended, so I'll just let Koopa find his way here on his own.
And are essentially against the rules of this forum, by the way. People really should read the fine print closer when they apply to post in this section of the forums.
There's plenty of 4drops to talk about now that M14 talk is fine, a lot of the previous pages were void of that.