Excellent deck and well detailed! I run a Darien deck myself that originally focused more on dealing self pain with Darien but I shyd away from it because I found out either opponents would play around things or tuck my commander (this was before the rules change), thus nullifying all the cards I had dedicated to him. Now I run more of an aggro/token build that can function without Darien, but has a few ways to deal self damage without taking up dedicated slots (painlands, manacrypt/vault, etc).
That said, there are two cards I have in my deck that are mostly dedicated for just Darien that I think are totally worth it. Sivvi's Valor and Scout's Warning.
The former is a one time use Jade Monolith. However, what I believe makes this card special is that it's very sneaky. It's instant, it's free (in most scenarios) and your opponents will not see it coming. Jade seems better for 1 vs 1 because if your opponent doesn't have an answer to it or Darien then it puts a lot of pressure on them. However, Jade does not seem very good for multiplayer because it's a lot of open information that you opponents can play around and most likely have an answer to. They could easily in response destroy/exile/bounce Darien to your Jade trigger, causing you to shoot yourself in the foot. This is where I think Sivvi's valor shines over Jade in multiplayer. There is so much you can do with it, even when your opponents aren't attacking you! Even at it's worst, you can use it to save a key creature of not just your own, but an opponent's/ally's creature as well.
As for the latter, well, I think flashing in Darien for some surprise tokens is pretty good, but it might not be worth it if you don't have many other creatures you could utilize with it
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you've got the text of Marchesa wrong. The correct text from the spoiler actually reads:
Deathtouch, haste
When Queen Marchesa enters the battlefield, you become the monarch.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if an opponent is the monarch, put a 1/1 black assassin creature token with deathtouch and haste onto the battlefield.
From my understanding, I don't think her second ability will work in EDH unless your oppoonent somehow becomes the monarch.
Like others have said, this deck is great and I really appreciate and agree with your thought process overall. I’m actually trying to build a Zirilan deck myself and have come across similar problems from certain cards being too dependent on the commander, so I think I’ll cut some of those out and put in more ramp like your deck. That said, I’m wondering if maybe you are too far on the opposite end of not providing Zirilan any support? I can understand cutting cards that are dead in your deck without Zirilan, but something like Conjourer’s Closet could still be useful with any dragons that have ETB abilities. A sac outlet like High Market doesn’t really take a card slot since it’s a land, but I can understand if you don’t want to run it if your meta is heavy with reanimation decks.
There are many directions you can take a Darien deck. I've seen decks stuffed with as many soldier creatures as possible and decks that cater heavily towards abusing Darien's ability with cards like Jinxed Idol and Jinxed Choker. Me personally I've taken a conservative approach with relying on Darien and play with a heavy soldier token theme; I've found that having too many cards that only shine when Darien is out makes the deck fragile and easy for opponents to play around. I'm not sure what kind of build your friend has for Darien, but from my experience I would advise he consider running the following
Ancient Tomb - Great mana accel that works perfect with Darien[/CARD] Tarnished Citadel - I prefer this over other painlands because it comes into play untapped and the pain is optional. Mana Vault - Get Darien out on turn 3 with this and enjoy a free soldier every turn Mana Crypt - Not for the budget friendly, but an absolute beast in this deck Staff of Nin - Card draw is important for white and the extra damage is versatile for your deck. Ping an opponent's utility creature or make a solider token when Darien's out Sivvi's Valor - I love this card. It's Jade Monolith, but much sneakier, so your opponent's can't play around it as easily. Playing it for free means no one sees it coming. Worst case scenario, you use it for its intended purpose and save a very important creature. Enjoy your free army otherwise Scout's Warning - Popping Darien in for some surprise tokens. Becomes stronger if you have other creature cards in your deck to utilize it as well
A couple of other random suggestions
Blighted Steppe - life gain in land form. Almost no reason not to run this Spear of Heliod - No one is going to attack into you with Darien on the board unless they have a way to remove it. This card serves as an extra layer of security if they are able to remove Darien after you've declared no blocks. The anthem effect is also welcome in the deck
Side question, are Angel's Grace or Lich's Tomb worth a slot to possibly save myself super late game?
I've never played either card. I feel Angel's Grace will play out more like Final Fortune. It gives you one more turn to win the game (unless your friend has a ridiculous amount of life gain in the deck). Lich's Tomb is only useful if you have a ton of permanents (tokens) in play, but at that point you should be winning, not losing! Worship is a much better version of the tomb if you're looking for an effect like that.
Jester's Cap doesn't get as much as Denyng Wind, but is easily recurred with Academy Ruins.
Perhaps Forced Fruition for some truly accelerated draw-mill? Dangerous, but exciting.
Cheers!
Jester's Cap is amazing. I don't know why I haven't considered it before. I'll definitely be swapping this in place of Denying Wind. I used to have Forced Fruition in the deck, but I found that, like most mill cards, it doesn't do anything else to interact with the game, so I cut it out. Plus I found it was more beneficial for opponents then hurtful.
Sakashima the Impostor isn't a spirit when you cast it, but it's very Kamigawa and could give you a second Cloudhoof Kirin. (or more interestingly, give you a second Myojin of Seeing Winds every turn).
It's too bad this guy isn't a spirit or else he'd be perfect. I've been thinking of adding one clone effect to the deck though since it can have nice utility with bounce, so maybe I'll give this guy a shot. Definitely didn't consider the legendary cloning utility which seems very powerful for the deck and just in general. Now I just have to find a slot to fit him in somewhere.
On a related note, I've been thinking of removing some of the more underwhelming spirits in place of card draw/deck utility. I'm trying to avoid making the deck a combo deck where I need to search for specific cards to interact with, but given the limited availability of good spirits I fear I will have to take the deck in that direction a bit if I wish to make it more powerful. I'm thinking of empowering the trinket mage synergies more by throwing in some other 1 drop artifacts such as Sensei's Divining Top, Codex Shredder and Expedition Map, but I'm not sure. I guess some more playtesting is needed first.
So for anyone still following (ha), I had some opportunities to play the deck and I’ve made some minor tweaks. Mnemonic Wall was a dead card in my hand 90% of the time. Only 6 instants and sorceries to interact with in the deck, so out it goes. Drowned Rusalka also got the axe. It seems good, but is not very relevant for most purposes of recasting, and I found myself preferring to bounce creatures back to my hand instead of sacking them when it came to saving them from removal. In their place I put Denying Wind and Lantern of Insight. Wind is expensive, but is a necessity for my deck. There are just too many cards that benefit from being in the graveyard or that hose my strategy completely. It’s also nice to be able to remove the hate cards as well as the biggest threats from an opponent's deck. No idea how Lantern will do, but I like the idea of being able to control my opponent's draws. Seems to be working in modern anyway
Since I have a few 1 drop artifacts in the deck already, I decide to throw in a Trinket Mage. He has the added bonus of being a nice target to bounce and re-cast. I also threw in a Darksteel Citadel to give us a searchable land if needed. I slotted these in place of Sky Diamond and Tormod's Crypt. Sad to see the crypt go, but we only have so many slots in the deck. With Denying Wind and Trinket Mage though, I think it should be ok.
At the moment I'm pretty content with the deck and the way it plays out. It's a bit of a stretch to make it work sometimes, but not so much that the deck is unplayable. As long as you have some combination of defenders, protection, card draw, and/or removal/bounce in your opening hand you’re solid. The deck is pretty fun to pilot and I imagine that these recent tweaks will help make the deck a bit stronger and a bit more consistent. I’ll be continuing to tweak and playtest the deck (because I’m a perfectionist) but I would love to hear any feedback, comments, suggestions, or questions.
Here’s hoping we get some better spirit cards in the coming future. Until then
I have an incomplete infect deck that’s been sitting in my tinkerer’s box for years. I tried some ideas similar to yours and found that trying to fit in 3 colors with a playset of Inkmoth Nexus was too inconsistent for me. You might need to consider cutting white completely. I don’t think you really need white to be honest. Green has some other spells that grant hexproof and as awesome as Swords to plowshares is in infect, bounce could fill in that role nicely as well if you’re going for the tempo game
Also, a random suggestion. I never got to test it but I was toying around with the idea of running Crop Harvest in my deck. Might be a nice addition if you decide to run a more control oriented build. End of opponents turn, fetch inkmoth. On your turn pump inkmoth and swing in for lethal out of nowhere.
Good luck with the deck. I’d love to see how it turns out!
The problem with mill strategy is people running Eldrazi legendaries. I know more than a few players who keep an Ulimog in their deck for no other reason than to defend against a surprise Tunnel Vision.
I would very heavily suggest you add Denying Wind to this deck. Especially with your spell recursion. Its expensive, but being able to cast half of a kicked Sadistic Sacrament in mono-U is very, very useful.
A valid concern. The Eldrazi were definitely one of the first things I thought about when I drafted an original list and I actually had a lot more exile effects in my deck to combat this. I found in goldfishing though that my hand was too cluttered with exile spells and that I didn’t have enough to combat what was already on the battlefield, so I cut some out.
Currently I’m running several cards that can exile the Eldrazi (and other threats) from different zones. Tormod’s Crypt and Relic of Progenitus cover the graveyard, Dissipate is an excellent counter, and should any Eldrazi or other creatures with graveyard shenanigans manage to hit the board, Perilous Vault and Curse of the Swine will make sure they are gone for good.
Perhaps now that my list is more refined though I can look to squeeze Denying Winds back in. It’s unfortunate that it’s very expensive to cast though.What would you recommend taking out for it?
Since you're monocolor and your commander has flying, Stormtide Leviathan and/or Strata Scythe can also serve for a commander-damage backup wincon and extra protection for you.
Strata Scythe seems good for getting in there with commander damage. I just don’t like how it doesn’t really have any other synergy with the deck and is more or less a dead draw if I don’t have access to my general for some reason. I’ll consider it. I much more prefer having Crumbling Sanctuary in though as it gives me a reason to attack with all of my creatures while simultaneously giving me a boost in life (essentially).
Archangel of Thune is outrageous in this deck, especially with soul warden or the others.
Depends on your build. If you're running enough life-gain to justify playing cards like Well of Lost Dreams then you're probably ok running this. I only have about 4 or 5 lifegain effects in my build so the Archangel would not be as effective there.
It's too bad the primer is dead. I've seen a resurgence of interest in Darien lately.
Nice deck! Most Darien builds I’ve seen (mine included) tend to go the tribal route so it’s nice to see a deck that go in a slightly different direction.
How much have you played your deck? The biggest/most recurring problem I’ve come across with mine is that sometimes I’ll have some tokens but nothing to really do with them. I run a similar number of anthem effects, but I would advise trying to squeeze in some more card draw to help you draw into more options. I have found Memory Jar, Slate of Ancestry, Mentor of the Meek and Skullclamp to provide useful card advantage for mono white. Endless Horizons is another great card, guaranteeing a land drop every turn while helping filter lands out of your deck for better draws. With all the life gain you are running you may also want to consider running Well of Lost Dreams
Why not put in some more tutorable options for Ranger of Eos? Weathered Wayfarer is an excellent way to search up your painlands. I would advise replacing your Knight of the White Orchid with it since they play similar roles, but the wayfarer is better (in my opinion). You could also add Mikaeus, the Lunarch to give you an option to search for pump if you need it.
First Response Is like a mini Darien. It’s untested in my deck so I’m not sure how it actually plays out but I like the idea of it. It may serve as a nice backup plan for you since your deck is more focused on Darien. Scout’s warning is another card I’ve been considering. Untested, but I really like the idea of flashing in Darien when my opponents think they’re in the clear to attack. Plus it could have nice utility with other cards.
I like the idea of what you're doing, but is there really a large enough card pool for some of these themes? I really like the idea of raiders vs tombs but I don't know if there's enough cards out there to support these themes to make a (playable) constructed deck. Same could go for vikings. For Navy I'm assuming we could use ships and soldiers? that could possibly work.
My votes on Navy for now, but I may change my mind if I see there's enough to play around with the egyptian theme.
Thanks for the suggestions! Dungeon Geists is already in my list and I feel that Stormbound Geist is not a good fit for the deck. It doesn't have much utility outside of attacking which does little to support the deck's main game plan.
Tower Geist I initially dismissed when originally building the deck, but now that I have Mull drifter in the deck I notice that it looks and plays somewhat similarly with added tribal bonus. The only thing I don't like is that you have to put one of the cards in your graveyard, but maybe I can play around it with Psychic Spiral and Academy Ruins. I'll consider putting it back in, maybe replacing mulldrifter with it. Thanks for bringing the card to my attention again!
So just to add a little more discussion and gather some thoughts on this, I recently acquired a Scout's Warning in a trade and put it in my Darien deck. I haven't tried it out in practice but I really like the idea of flashing Darien in on an unblocked attacker. I suppose it depends on your creature build, but I can see this card having many other useful applications too. Surprise creatures/pump with Captain of the Watch, save a creature with Storm Riders or Kor Skyfisher, get a surprise fog with Knight-captain of Eos, flash in Mirror Entity before your turn begins and swing in with a huge alpha strike out of nowhere, etc
I'm definitely looking forward to trying this card out in my deck.
I used to run Jade's Monolith but find that smart opponents will play around it. It will basically lock up combat entirely on the board until either the monolith or Darien is removed and it usually just makes you a huge target. I much prefer Sivvi's Valor in this role, in theory. In all honesty, I haven't played a game with it yet, but I like how it sounds on paper. The fact that you simply need to tap a creature to cast it makes it so appealing and I could see a wide use of cases for it even when we don't have Darien in play. Worst case scenario it's just another spell to protect one of our key creatures. Best case, you save one of your creatures and get a bunch of tokens out of nowhere
That said, there are two cards I have in my deck that are mostly dedicated for just Darien that I think are totally worth it. Sivvi's Valor and Scout's Warning.
The former is a one time use Jade Monolith. However, what I believe makes this card special is that it's very sneaky. It's instant, it's free (in most scenarios) and your opponents will not see it coming. Jade seems better for 1 vs 1 because if your opponent doesn't have an answer to it or Darien then it puts a lot of pressure on them. However, Jade does not seem very good for multiplayer because it's a lot of open information that you opponents can play around and most likely have an answer to. They could easily in response destroy/exile/bounce Darien to your Jade trigger, causing you to shoot yourself in the foot. This is where I think Sivvi's valor shines over Jade in multiplayer. There is so much you can do with it, even when your opponents aren't attacking you! Even at it's worst, you can use it to save a key creature of not just your own, but an opponent's/ally's creature as well.
As for the latter, well, I think flashing in Darien for some surprise tokens is pretty good, but it might not be worth it if you don't have many other creatures you could utilize with it
Goes to show how much I know about conspiracy. My bad. Carry on!
From my understanding, I don't think her second ability will work in EDH unless your oppoonent somehow becomes the monarch.
Ancient Tomb - Great mana accel that works perfect with Darien[/CARD]
Tarnished Citadel - I prefer this over other painlands because it comes into play untapped and the pain is optional.
Mana Vault - Get Darien out on turn 3 with this and enjoy a free soldier every turn
Mana Crypt - Not for the budget friendly, but an absolute beast in this deck
Staff of Nin - Card draw is important for white and the extra damage is versatile for your deck. Ping an opponent's utility creature or make a solider token when Darien's out
Sivvi's Valor - I love this card. It's Jade Monolith, but much sneakier, so your opponent's can't play around it as easily. Playing it for free means no one sees it coming. Worst case scenario, you use it for its intended purpose and save a very important creature. Enjoy your free army otherwise
Scout's Warning - Popping Darien in for some surprise tokens. Becomes stronger if you have other creature cards in your deck to utilize it as well
A couple of other random suggestions
Blighted Steppe - life gain in land form. Almost no reason not to run this
Spear of Heliod - No one is going to attack into you with Darien on the board unless they have a way to remove it. This card serves as an extra layer of security if they are able to remove Darien after you've declared no blocks. The anthem effect is also welcome in the deck
I've never played either card. I feel Angel's Grace will play out more like Final Fortune. It gives you one more turn to win the game (unless your friend has a ridiculous amount of life gain in the deck). Lich's Tomb is only useful if you have a ton of permanents (tokens) in play, but at that point you should be winning, not losing! Worship is a much better version of the tomb if you're looking for an effect like that.
Jester's Cap is amazing. I don't know why I haven't considered it before. I'll definitely be swapping this in place of Denying Wind. I used to have Forced Fruition in the deck, but I found that, like most mill cards, it doesn't do anything else to interact with the game, so I cut it out. Plus I found it was more beneficial for opponents then hurtful.
It's too bad this guy isn't a spirit or else he'd be perfect. I've been thinking of adding one clone effect to the deck though since it can have nice utility with bounce, so maybe I'll give this guy a shot. Definitely didn't consider the legendary cloning utility which seems very powerful for the deck and just in general. Now I just have to find a slot to fit him in somewhere.
On a related note, I've been thinking of removing some of the more underwhelming spirits in place of card draw/deck utility. I'm trying to avoid making the deck a combo deck where I need to search for specific cards to interact with, but given the limited availability of good spirits I fear I will have to take the deck in that direction a bit if I wish to make it more powerful. I'm thinking of empowering the trinket mage synergies more by throwing in some other 1 drop artifacts such as Sensei's Divining Top, Codex Shredder and Expedition Map, but I'm not sure. I guess some more playtesting is needed first.
Since I have a few 1 drop artifacts in the deck already, I decide to throw in a Trinket Mage. He has the added bonus of being a nice target to bounce and re-cast. I also threw in a Darksteel Citadel to give us a searchable land if needed. I slotted these in place of Sky Diamond and Tormod's Crypt. Sad to see the crypt go, but we only have so many slots in the deck. With Denying Wind and Trinket Mage though, I think it should be ok.
At the moment I'm pretty content with the deck and the way it plays out. It's a bit of a stretch to make it work sometimes, but not so much that the deck is unplayable. As long as you have some combination of defenders, protection, card draw, and/or removal/bounce in your opening hand you’re solid. The deck is pretty fun to pilot and I imagine that these recent tweaks will help make the deck a bit stronger and a bit more consistent. I’ll be continuing to tweak and playtest the deck (because I’m a perfectionist) but I would love to hear any feedback, comments, suggestions, or questions.
Here’s hoping we get some better spirit cards in the coming future. Until then
Also, a random suggestion. I never got to test it but I was toying around with the idea of running Crop Harvest in my deck. Might be a nice addition if you decide to run a more control oriented build. End of opponents turn, fetch inkmoth. On your turn pump inkmoth and swing in for lethal out of nowhere.
Good luck with the deck. I’d love to see how it turns out!
A valid concern. The Eldrazi were definitely one of the first things I thought about when I drafted an original list and I actually had a lot more exile effects in my deck to combat this. I found in goldfishing though that my hand was too cluttered with exile spells and that I didn’t have enough to combat what was already on the battlefield, so I cut some out.
Currently I’m running several cards that can exile the Eldrazi (and other threats) from different zones. Tormod’s Crypt and Relic of Progenitus cover the graveyard, Dissipate is an excellent counter, and should any Eldrazi or other creatures with graveyard shenanigans manage to hit the board, Perilous Vault and Curse of the Swine will make sure they are gone for good.
Perhaps now that my list is more refined though I can look to squeeze Denying Winds back in. It’s unfortunate that it’s very expensive to cast though.What would you recommend taking out for it?
Strata Scythe seems good for getting in there with commander damage. I just don’t like how it doesn’t really have any other synergy with the deck and is more or less a dead draw if I don’t have access to my general for some reason. I’ll consider it. I much more prefer having Crumbling Sanctuary in though as it gives me a reason to attack with all of my creatures while simultaneously giving me a boost in life (essentially).
Depends on your build. If you're running enough life-gain to justify playing cards like Well of Lost Dreams then you're probably ok running this. I only have about 4 or 5 lifegain effects in my build so the Archangel would not be as effective there.
It's too bad the primer is dead. I've seen a resurgence of interest in Darien lately.
How much have you played your deck? The biggest/most recurring problem I’ve come across with mine is that sometimes I’ll have some tokens but nothing to really do with them. I run a similar number of anthem effects, but I would advise trying to squeeze in some more card draw to help you draw into more options. I have found Memory Jar, Slate of Ancestry, Mentor of the Meek and Skullclamp to provide useful card advantage for mono white. Endless Horizons is another great card, guaranteeing a land drop every turn while helping filter lands out of your deck for better draws. With all the life gain you are running you may also want to consider running Well of Lost Dreams
Why not put in some more tutorable options for Ranger of Eos? Weathered Wayfarer is an excellent way to search up your painlands. I would advise replacing your Knight of the White Orchid with it since they play similar roles, but the wayfarer is better (in my opinion). You could also add Mikaeus, the Lunarch to give you an option to search for pump if you need it.
First Response Is like a mini Darien. It’s untested in my deck so I’m not sure how it actually plays out but I like the idea of it. It may serve as a nice backup plan for you since your deck is more focused on Darien. Scout’s warning is another card I’ve been considering. Untested, but I really like the idea of flashing in Darien when my opponents think they’re in the clear to attack. Plus it could have nice utility with other cards.
My votes on Navy for now, but I may change my mind if I see there's enough to play around with the egyptian theme.
Tower Geist I initially dismissed when originally building the deck, but now that I have Mull drifter in the deck I notice that it looks and plays somewhat similarly with added tribal bonus. The only thing I don't like is that you have to put one of the cards in your graveyard, but maybe I can play around it with Psychic Spiral and Academy Ruins. I'll consider putting it back in, maybe replacing mulldrifter with it. Thanks for bringing the card to my attention again!
I'm definitely looking forward to trying this card out in my deck.