On Favor of the Mighty: I don't see how it would work against Splinter Twin.
Apologies, I should have elaborated on this. The idea is to give protection from all colors to Pestermite and Deceiver Exarch so that they can't cast Splinter Twin.
However you are giving them the perfect blocker...
So, I've been testing several lists during the last days and the one of Horseshoe seems to me superior (btw neet job!).
A few random thoughts:
- could Melira, Sylvok Outcast deserve a spot in the sideboard? It can be fetched with time of need and it helps against infect, which is a deck which gives me troubles.
- Favor of the Mighty is a card which is completly overlooked but it looks to me like a cute sideboard tech. It is devastating against UWR control and it helps against Twin, forcing them to go for the kiki-jiki route.
- I didn't get how worship works against twin. Assuming that we can get it out, how do we go through infinite blockers? Is the aim to stall until we find linvala?
I've also really been considering Suppression Field in the board. On top of taxing effects of Arbiter and Thalia, that could really be a pain.
Indeed a nice list.
You might want to replace the [CARD]Rest in Peace
[/CARD] with something else (wheel of sun and moon?) because RiP prevents VoR from dying (=being put in the graveyard from the battlefield)
And what do you think of finding space for the combo Varolz, the Scar-Striped plus Death's Shadow?
As I play only on MODO I won't be able to test it for a few weeks more but it looks good on paper.
Yeah, Gamekeeper is funny but I think he may fizzle too often. I mean, what if you find another Gamekeeper? Or a Reactor?
Concerning Defense of the Heart, imho there must be a reason to play it over natural order or Pattern of Rebirth. You should profit of the two creatures you bring onto the battlefield either to lock out the opponent (Iona, Shield of Emeria + Painter's Servant) or to win right away (ex: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Sky Hussar, but there must be better around).
Catapult squad, that‘s the cart I was looking for!
I know I’m not inventing anything new, but these guys solve many of our problems. I had to remove “my” suppression fields in order to use it, but the deck is much better know, with a way to affect creatures on the board. Now I don’t die anymore (ok, I die much less…) to delver of secrets and batterskull.
Try them, you won’t regret it!
I still badly lose (in order):
- to Progenitus
- to RUG… I have the impression they have an answer to whatever I throw at them
- heavy control decks, we are too slow to race them before they control the board.
If you guys have any idea to improve those MUs…let me know !
Btw, MTG-Fan how were your testing with Veteran Swordsmith and Veteran's Armaments ?
- On paper, Suppression Field looks amazing. In practice, too often it would not have an effect on the game. Too many times, I would play it after they had fetched most of their lands, or they would fetch in response to my playing it. Or they were simply playing decks that didn't need to activate alot of abilities. In the end, I think that playing this card is a waste of time. I have removed it from all of my Soldiers lists.
Funny how we are taking different directions. In my case suppression field is working pretty well, and I would not be ready to drop it, although I have to admit that I often board it out, especially on the draw. However it’s so brutal against certain decks that I like to have access to it mainboard.
I guess that without the S-fields I would test some cards with activated abilities, starting with wasteland. My goodness, how I miss wasteland…
On the other hand I find Thorn of Amethyst somehow disappointing, so I decided to move it to the sideboard.
I had (surprisingly) quite a lot of time to test the deck this week and I understand it better. Armageddon is indeed useful, but I still prefer to leave those slots for other cards.
I left in 2 Flagstones of Trokair although I removed the armageddons because surprisingly they keep on being useful.
A few oblivion rings are a must. I lost too many time to moat, ensnaring bridge, solitary confinement or the like. Leyline of Singularity is also good, as we still need an extra help against burn and storm, and it shines against discard as well. Wheel of sun and moon is working pretty well for me. I have never lost a game to dredge so far. I have limited experience with reanimator (only one game so far), maybe in that match-up they are not that good. However the wheels are useful in other less evident match-ups, such us loam decks.
The rest of the sideboard is still a lab. I think I will end up dropping completely the 2 Thorn of amethyst. Wrath of God are the latest twist and they are still largely untested. But I’m still looking for a solution against faster aggro decks.
I have not tested the hookmasters, but I will give it a try.
I’ll tell you more asap.
I have to test both of these versions. If anyone else is testing either one of these versions, please get back to me and post in here regarding your results.
MTG-Fan,
I'm toying with this deck as well. I'm testing the second list, the one with the four daru warchiefs.
The deck smashes combo, fights decently against control and aggro but looses against any deck with a batterskull.
I couldn't find any solution for that so far. How is tower of magistrate working for you?
Other options I'm considering:
- favor of the mighty
- basilisk collar, although it's awful with chalice and suppression field. Maybe quietus spike?
- Intrepid hero
Others?
Other random thoughts:
- I spent some time looking for an alternative to tormod's crypt as I don't like the way it interacts with suppression field. However I don't see many other options, considering that I don't want anything with cc1 (we still have chalice). I may give a try to leyline of the void (bad topdeck...) or to wheel of sun and moon (too slow?)
- the original list was having 3 armageddons in the sideboard, but I can't get when to use them. I understand the idea of landing a thread and seal the game, but imho against combo it's just a win more and against aggro we don't want them as we are often fighting for air. When would you board them in and what would you take out?
- leyline of sanctity is good but imho not strictly necessary, as we already have good match-up against combo and burn. I might use those slots to improve the mach-up against aggro and stoneblade.
- cursed totem is simply great. Thanks for pointing that out, I missed it. I had a sort of sadistic pleasure when I landed it against combo elves…
I always run spree over StS. The higher versatility and power beats 3 damage and instant speed in many circumstances.
I was thinking about Ingot chewer as artifacts hate. It's unaffected by spell pierce and spell snare, and therefore harder to counter. However it is not an instant... Opinions?
A few copies of Noxious Revival belong to this deck, imho. They could be used while comboing to recast a glimpse of nature, to recover a lotus petal or in general to fight counterspells and discard.
Arew, were you taking the risk to side in dark confidants and natural orders at the same time? I mean, flipping a Progenitus is probably game lost, isn't it?
Also how did green sun's zenith work for you? Increasing the possibilities to hit a fauna shaman is sweet, but isn't it antisynergic with vengevines (and shamans themselves)?
I saw you dropped the dark confidants from the board. What's your reasoning about that?
Yes, "green stompy" is misleading, sorry for that. I guess chalice green is more appropriate.
I agree that river boa and scryb ranger are not so effective, I'll look for alternatives. Great sable stag is a good call, Spawnwrithe is a great idea!
The ooze can indeed move to the sideboard, and thrun has to go.
I'm still hesitating for the alternatives to the chrome mox. Hierarch seems the best one, but isn't it anti-synergyc with chalice?
What do you guys think about tarmogoyf in this deck? I left it out because I mostly play permanents.
It has a lot of anti-blue cards, which is why I think it may work well given the current meta (well, at least my meta). Green Sun's Zenith is imho very good under chalice or trinisphere.
I basically lack only the trolls and the ooze, so I wouldn't be a huge investment. Anyway, what do you guys think? Am I loosing my time or does the deck have legs?
Apologies, I should have elaborated on this. The idea is to give protection from all colors to Pestermite and Deceiver Exarch so that they can't cast Splinter Twin.
However you are giving them the perfect blocker...
A few random thoughts:
- could Melira, Sylvok Outcast deserve a spot in the sideboard? It can be fetched with time of need and it helps against infect, which is a deck which gives me troubles.
- Favor of the Mighty is a card which is completly overlooked but it looks to me like a cute sideboard tech. It is devastating against UWR control and it helps against Twin, forcing them to go for the kiki-jiki route.
- I didn't get how worship works against twin. Assuming that we can get it out, how do we go through infinite blockers? Is the aim to stall until we find linvala?
Indeed a nice list.
You might want to replace the [CARD]Rest in Peace
[/CARD] with something else (wheel of sun and moon?) because RiP prevents VoR from dying (=being put in the graveyard from the battlefield)
As I play only on MODO I won't be able to test it for a few weeks more but it looks good on paper.
Concerning Defense of the Heart, imho there must be a reason to play it over natural order or Pattern of Rebirth. You should profit of the two creatures you bring onto the battlefield either to lock out the opponent (Iona, Shield of Emeria + Painter's Servant) or to win right away (ex: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Sky Hussar, but there must be better around).
Other ideas: I would use a playset of Reactors and sac engines like Diabolic Intent and cabal therapy. Maybe even veteran explorer
Also have a look to this thread if you have not done it already.
I know I’m not inventing anything new, but these guys solve many of our problems. I had to remove “my” suppression fields in order to use it, but the deck is much better know, with a way to affect creatures on the board. Now I don’t die anymore (ok, I die much less…) to delver of secrets and batterskull.
Try them, you won’t regret it!
So my current list is:
3 Karakas
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ballyrush Banneret
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Preeminent Captain
4 Enlistment Officer
4 Daru Warchief
3 Field Marshal
4 Captain of the Watch
3 Cursed Totem
4 Leyline of Singularity
4 wheel of sun and moon
2 wrath of God
2 oblivion ring
I still badly lose (in order):
- to Progenitus
- to RUG… I have the impression they have an answer to whatever I throw at them
- heavy control decks, we are too slow to race them before they control the board.
If you guys have any idea to improve those MUs…let me know !
Btw, MTG-Fan how were your testing with Veteran Swordsmith and Veteran's Armaments ?
Funny how we are taking different directions. In my case suppression field is working pretty well, and I would not be ready to drop it, although I have to admit that I often board it out, especially on the draw. However it’s so brutal against certain decks that I like to have access to it mainboard.
I guess that without the S-fields I would test some cards with activated abilities, starting with wasteland. My goodness, how I miss wasteland…
On the other hand I find Thorn of Amethyst somehow disappointing, so I decided to move it to the sideboard.
My current list is:
3 Karakas
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
2 oblivion ring
4 Suppression field
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Preeminent Captain
4 Enlistment Officer
4 Daru Warchief
4 Field Marshal
4 Captain of the Watch
3 Cursed Totem
4 Leyline of Singularity
3 wheel of sun and moon
3 wrath of God
2 Thorn of Amethyst
I had (surprisingly) quite a lot of time to test the deck this week and I understand it better.
Armageddon is indeed useful, but I still prefer to leave those slots for other cards.
I left in 2 Flagstones of Trokair although I removed the armageddons because surprisingly they keep on being useful.
A few oblivion rings are a must. I lost too many time to moat, ensnaring bridge, solitary confinement or the like.
Leyline of Singularity is also good, as we still need an extra help against burn and storm, and it shines against discard as well.
Wheel of sun and moon is working pretty well for me. I have never lost a game to dredge so far. I have limited experience with reanimator (only one game so far), maybe in that match-up they are not that good. However the wheels are useful in other less evident match-ups, such us loam decks.
The rest of the sideboard is still a lab. I think I will end up dropping completely the 2 Thorn of amethyst. Wrath of God are the latest twist and they are still largely untested. But I’m still looking for a solution against faster aggro decks.
I have not tested the hookmasters, but I will give it a try.
I’ll tell you more asap.
MTG-Fan,
I'm toying with this deck as well. I'm testing the second list, the one with the four daru warchiefs.
The deck smashes combo, fights decently against control and aggro but looses against any deck with a batterskull.
I couldn't find any solution for that so far. How is tower of magistrate working for you?
Other options I'm considering:
- favor of the mighty
- basilisk collar, although it's awful with chalice and suppression field. Maybe quietus spike?
- Intrepid hero
Others?
Other random thoughts:
- I spent some time looking for an alternative to tormod's crypt as I don't like the way it interacts with suppression field. However I don't see many other options, considering that I don't want anything with cc1 (we still have chalice). I may give a try to leyline of the void (bad topdeck...) or to wheel of sun and moon (too slow?)
- the original list was having 3 armageddons in the sideboard, but I can't get when to use them. I understand the idea of landing a thread and seal the game, but imho against combo it's just a win more and against aggro we don't want them as we are often fighting for air. When would you board them in and what would you take out?
- leyline of sanctity is good but imho not strictly necessary, as we already have good match-up against combo and burn. I might use those slots to improve the mach-up against aggro and stoneblade.
- cursed totem is simply great. Thanks for pointing that out, I missed it. I had a sort of sadistic pleasure when I landed it against combo elves…
I was thinking about Ingot chewer as artifacts hate. It's unaffected by spell pierce and spell snare, and therefore harder to counter. However it is not an instant... Opinions?
Ken Adams wrote an article about the deck, I'm posting the link in case someone missed it: http://sales.jupitergamesonline.com/articles/2011/07/buried-alive-in-baltimore
Also how did green sun's zenith work for you? Increasing the possibilities to hit a fauna shaman is sweet, but isn't it antisynergic with vengevines (and shamans themselves)?
I saw you dropped the dark confidants from the board. What's your reasoning about that?
Yes, "green stompy" is misleading, sorry for that. I guess chalice green is more appropriate.
I agree that river boa and scryb ranger are not so effective, I'll look for alternatives. Great sable stag is a good call, Spawnwrithe is a great idea!
The ooze can indeed move to the sideboard, and thrun has to go.
I'm still hesitating for the alternatives to the chrome mox. Hierarch seems the best one, but isn't it anti-synergyc with chalice?
What do you guys think about tarmogoyf in this deck? I left it out because I mostly play permanents.
this is far from being a new idea, but I believe that this kind of deck could be well positioned right now, so I was willing to update it.
For reference, this is the list which had some success in the past:
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Llanowar Elves
2 Progenitus
3 Cold-Eyed Selkie
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Noble Hierarch
4 River Boa
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Natural Order
Planeswalkers [2]
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
Artifacts [11]
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
Lands [19]
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Pendelhaven
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
5 Forest
And this is what I'm trying to put together:
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Progenitus
3 River Boa
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Scryb Ranger
3 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Chrome Mox
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Trinisphere
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Dryad Arbor
4 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath
It has a lot of anti-blue cards, which is why I think it may work well given the current meta (well, at least my meta).
Green Sun's Zenith is imho very good under chalice or trinisphere.
I basically lack only the trolls and the ooze, so I wouldn't be a huge investment. Anyway, what do you guys think? Am I loosing my time or does the deck have legs?
Thanks
To solve this problem you could use a singleton Phantasmagorian
Edit
Actually if you want to take the chalice of the void way, you could get rid of black. Something like:
4 Basalt Monolith
4 Narcomoeba
1 Dread Return
1 Sharuum the Hegemon
1 Emrakul the Aeons Torn
1 Blasting Station
4 Force of Will
3 Thirst for Knowledge
4 daze
4 fabricate
1 Phantasmagorian
4 Intuition
12 island
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb