First off all, i think you have to review your list a bit, goblin guide is not a midrange creature and will often be a thorn in the eye as giving your opponent better draws is not what you want.
Good thing this isn't a midrange deck.
@Franx: I think I would take the fourth Loyalist over the fourth Instigator. I think I also like Copperline Gorge over the Rootbound Crag.
I have always liked Check lands over Scars Taplands because late game they are just a better draw. Even though this deck shouldn't be going late game, just a precaution. I will try that, I have found Instigator to be better than loyalist in a few situations so that is why I choose to run only 3 Legion and 4 Instigator.
Also with Instigator, the point of running him mainboard is to get the big gobos out. Krenko, Mob Boss, Goblin King, Siege-Gang Commander, or even Boggart Ram-Gang are just some suggestions. Your deck is transitioning at the moment, you need to decide at this point if you want speed or stability. I have chosen stability because of Junk in my format.
For those of you interested. I worked on what I believe is the fastest Goblin's deck that we can create (without getting into too many combo tricks). To figure out what's the fastest deck - I had to shoot for a turn 3 kill. The best turn 3 enablers (in order):
Optional:
1. Legion Loyalist (If we're looking at creature selection within a turn 3 bubble - having a (1 CMC) 1/1 haste creature is borderline necessary. As things play out - it'd go Turn one Foundry or Goblin Guide. On turn 2 - he's going to be doing the same damage Goblin Cohort or Tattermunge Maniac would be doing on turn 3 (2 damage) and the bonus battalion possibility puts him head and shoulders above the other 1/1 CMC1 hasty creatures.)
2. Goblin Chieftain (unless simian spirit guide is used to cast him - he prevents any turn 3 kill. But is good enough to keep around for when the plans fail.)
If you want speed - take these cards and throw in 16-17 lands and - you'll have the fastest goblins deck possible.
Just something interesting I was playing around with. Certainly not saying it's the best build.
Cool idea, someone was mentioning memnite when they are were running a Kuldotha Rebirth artifact/goblin. I agree with Ice though, it will win, but not the direction I feel we should be going.
Great job cimu! Mind giving us tournament update/matches/win/loss etc etc
Sure. I'll try to keep it brief this time though.
Here's the deck list again, with a tiny update. I replaced the two Leyline of Punishment with two Skullcrack. I still haven't used either one, but MartyrProc is played in my local meta game, so I feel like I have to pack some anti-lifegain for that match-up.
Round 1: Burn (2-1)
I played this guy in round 4 last time. As with any red-on-red match-up (semi-mirror?) it's almost a coinflip, but I feel like I have a slight edge. My creatures are a constant source of damage, where his burn spells are a one-shot source of damage. It forces him into sub-optimal choices, where he might need to use burn spells as removal. Sideboarding:
-2 Spikeshot Elder
+2 Pyrite Spellbomb (I knew he had no relevant hate against me, so I just replaced the worst 1-drops in the match-up with extra removal for his Monastery Swiftspears)
Round 2: W/B Tokens (2-1)
This is a weird and extremely swingy match-up. He has Auriok Champion main-deck which hoses me. I have Legion Loyalist main-deck which hoses him. It's just down to who draws their random main-deck hate against the other. I wouldn't put this as a favorable match-up for Goblins, but winning the coin flip helped me. It's probably 45-55 in W/B tokens' favor. Sideboarding:
-4 Lightning Bolt
+4 Pyrite Spellbomb (for Auriok Champion, which needs to die ASAP)
Round 3: Jeskai Ascendancy Combo (2-0)
This was the same guy I played against in round 5 last time. I'm beginning to think that this is just a super favorable match-up. His deck plays very few blockers, so it's pretty easy to keep him under constant pressure. He's forced to spend his turns playing removal spells, which means he's not cantripping for combo pieces. After sideboard it just becomes even easier. Sideboarding:
-4 Goblin Grenade
-2 Spikeshot Elder
+4 Rending Volley (for killing Fatestitcher)
+2 Destructive Revelry (for destroying Jeskai Ascendancy)
Round 4: Esper Control (1-2)
This was my one loss for the evening. Game 1 was an absolute disaster. I flooded out to the point where I had 9 lands in play and 2 fetches in the graveyard, meaning I had gone through over 50% of the total lands in the deck. For the sideboarded games I put in Destructive Revelry in anticipation of Batterskull. He told me after the game that he didn't play it. In game 3 I drew both Revelrys and they were stuck in my hand. I feel like this is a very winnable match-up, but I lost due to extreme mana flooding in game 1 and not knowing my opponent's deck/sideboard choices in game 3. I feel better equipped to play against this deck now. Sideboarding:
-2 Lightning Bolt
+2 Destructive Revelry (for the Batterskull he didn't play :frown:)
Round 5: Boros Aggro (2-1)
This deck felt like a variant of Burn with the addition of Steppe Lynx. I felt a bit nostalgic seeing that furry little guy, as I haven't faced it since the days of the Zendikar standard format. Overall it seems to be slightly more favorable for Goblins than a standard Burn list. Mostly because Boros relies more on creatures, which can be chump-blocked by tokens from Dragon Fodder and Krenko's Command. This deck could have easily played Kor Firewalker, but after the game my opponent told me that he didn't play them at all. Instead he relied on Lightning Helix to swing the damage race, but I don't think that's a reliable strategy against the constant pressure of Goblins. Sideboarding:
-2 Lightning Bolt
-2 Spikeshot Elder
+4 Pyrite Spellbomb (I had to board it in against Kor Firewalker just in case. If I don't and he happens to have it I get locked out of the game)
After my experiences this week it seems to me that my build of Goblins is quite well-positioned in the meta-game. 9-1 is nothing to scoff at, and these results come from a time when everyone is tryharding in preparation for GP Copenhagen (I live in Denmark, so nearly everyone here is going to the GP). Any and all feedback is appreciated. Thanks for reading
The list seems simple enough, my only worry is Junk. Siege Rhino, Tarmogoyf and Courser of Kruphix are really painful against us. You may have the speed, but they have a lot more removal than we do. The skullcracks will help though.
How has Spikeshot Elder been? You seem to remove him a lot for the sideboard.
Have you considered adding Blood Moon and Goblin King? If you have, those two will help during this match up. It will also help with Tron, UR Aggro, Zoo, Dredge, Amulet Combo etc. It helps a lot if you plan on going to the GP yourself. Those are just some of the decks those two are good against. You would also have to remove -1 Mountain and +1 Forest if you do consider running BM.
You seem to run a lot of non-creature spells. 19 to be exact, have you considered running Monastery Swiftspear? Its more a burn deck creature and its not a goblin, but paired with Goblin Bushwhacker it could help.
Have you considered making your sideboard a bit less redundant? My advice;
Cut the bobs...no doubt he can help late game and is a target, he's just not for an aggro deck.
Cut the 1 terminate, and 1 dismember. You got 4 bolts and 2 terminates mb, that should be enough to get around any troubling creatures, and it doesn't affect your game plan. Dismember is only good against certain decks and it dilutes the "All-In" Goblin approach.
If you want to put in Warren Instigator, you got to put in some bigger gobos. Goblin Rabblemaster, and Krenko, Mob Boss, are my suggestions. Reason being is he's useless when you double strike in a legion loyalist and a foundry street denizen, don't consider him unless you cut Foundry's.
So, this tells us what has been the more popular choices. Which is good in certain ways because we can see what cards are actually effective in the current meta.
Tier 1
The Following have appeared in 80%+ of tournament winning decks.
1. Goblin Grenade 98.84%
2. Goblin Bushwhacker 95.35%
3. Goblin Guide 94.19%
4. Lightning Bolt 91.86%
5. Goblin Chieftain 88.37%
6. Legion Loyalist 85.00%
7. Mogg War Marshal 82.56%
This interests me the most considering that once again the core list is being used to its effectiveness. It's also telling me, some people mentioned this a few pages back, that Foundry Street Denizen may not be as popular as it use to be. Even though it is 71.67%, it still hasn't been as good as I remember. Foundry and Chieftain, always seem to get the most attention. So what does everyone suggest we do about that, maybe give them stronger targets to choose from? Junk does it, they have goyf, rhino, Courser of Kruphix. Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of big gobos in this format. Maybe that's why I like the new SCG list, it has a lot to offer in terms of anti creature wipes with 8 lords, but every creature is a threat. Interesting....good job on this list. It's been very helpful.
See the thing is i'm trying to get away from the core, that has been consistently recycling over and over again. All those cards are great but I find we rely on them too much and it makes us fall apart as oppose to other gobo decks. Which is why I am testing other parts to goblins, areas not explored very often, to get a better understanding of what's at stake when it comes to modern goblins. Not to say that they are wrong just the more options the better right?
So it seems that the core of goblins is used quite a bit, which is what most of us are doing currently. I'm not using MWM, bushwhackers and foundry's at the moment but seems like anyone with results is. Interesting...
I tried Cohort and found him to be good in certain cases(at the time i played him Mardu Scout didn't exist), but for the most part Mogg fanatic was more versatile in the meta at the time. How has Cohort been for you?
Also i tried Boil in my sideboard before but never had enough testing with it. How has your testing been?
Hey guys, i've been lurking at the thread for awhile and I finally have something to say. I'm updating the primer to make it user friendly as well as adding the new SCG list and more splashing options. I am also adding a RG list based off that SCG 7th place finish, I am also announcing that I am starting to record/stream games/magic on my youtube channel, I am also adding video links to starting players who want a general idea of goblins and how its played. Also dailies is another event I will be entering soon, just gotta work up that confidence i guess. Anyway on to the replies!
The basic idea is have fast starts with a strong midgame to back them up. The deck has all creatures that can work with Collected Company and Aether Vial. In playing this deck it can throw out a ton of creatures all in one turn and swing for the fences. This allows you to play more effectively around board wipes. The creatures themselves are hard to block with the loyalists, goblin king for mountainwalk, and overall strength generated by the 8 lords. Currently I am trying out Mogg fanatic to allow me to interact a little more without adding more noncreature spells, but goblin bushwhacker can also work in that slot. In the past I played this deck with Lead the Stampede instead of the new card and had moderate success with the overall strategy - so I was anxious to try out the new card.
I am looking for some feedback and ideas - also good sideboard creature options.
Jwelt how are you buddy? Been a long time, you've been gone so long that I took over the goblin thread, who would have thought eh? First off I'd like to stay I am always a big fan of your decks, that being said, I'm gonna requote treachTV and say that any vial goblin list should be in the vial goblins thread. I don't think your list needs vials, I'm running a list similar to yours that I will post at the end so you can see where I am at currently. Other then that i have no complaints keep up with the testing.
I really like the main deck, but I think the sb needs some tweaking. Any suggestions?
I think you should consider removing shared animosity mainboard and try the new Foul-Tongue Shriek. The card itself doesn't add to creatures power but considering that fact that you run lots of token generators you could potentially kill them without dealing any combat damage. You don't have to remove SA for it, but it is something to consider.
Your sideboard looks fine to be honest, the Blood Moon band wagon is real though, it does stop a lot of decks at the moment, so that should be in your 75.
I find Goblin Rabblemaster is good in token-less versions, he just provides more sheer power and is a target that has to be taken care of or as said before paired with Legion Loyalist he just wins games by himself.
I have never liked Goblin Assault to be honest, I have had horrendous testing experience with it, so I would choose rabble master anyday over it, but that is just my opinion. Fact is, its harder to remove, and has a similar concept when it comes to goblins.
Ok so the mainboard is similar to the SCG list. When i first looked at the list, I thought how weird it looked to me because Instigator, King, Rabble master? What is going on here, but it finished well so I tried it. I was very impressed with how well it performed for how wack i felt it was as a list. However, it had something missing, so i tried a green splash instead of black. The deck performed 10x better than its counter part. Collected Company is a power house. Bringing out a chieftain and king on the turn that I had a blood moon in play against Junk won me the game single handedly. Atarka's Command against Delver is such a slap in the face if they don't expect it.
As for the sideboard I am still testing certain things, Goblin Ruinblaster or Zo-Zu are for Tron/Amulet since they are popping up here and there. Orb is for junk/uwr (snapcaster)/living end/twin. Dolmen gate is for any creature based matchup where my gobos can't square up against. Gruul Charm is for tokens. Artifact hate is for affinity/any artifact based deck. Choke is for any deck with lots of islands.
Let me know if anyone disagrees with this list being the sample green list for the primer and any suggestions you guys may have for the future of the thread.
Anything 4cc is usually a no no in 8rack considering we level off around 3 mana. Plus if people decide to start running smallpox, we toss our lands to raven's crime enough as is. So smallpox will be another factor against that. Its up to you though, this is what testing is for right.
Spellsnare is a very real card that at the time was played consistently in UWR control shells and twin. So yes it was not as effective. Besides lingering, smallpox shines against abzan because of big threats they play such as goyf or rhino, so it does make perfect sense...sir
Memory the last time you had worked on smallpox I believe the meta was mostly combo/control, so that's probably a good reason why it was horrendous. But against decks like junk it can be very useful. I have been testing it lately with mixed results
I think he had dragon claw to gain himself life against another aggro deck, which to honest is not a bad idea.
Congratz on that outcome, I went 3/2 at my first tournament so kudos. As for your the main board, looks like a solid token build, the sideboard as you said could use some work. So here's my advice from your report and what I feel you should be looking out for.
Infect - Black is best, Terminate is huge in that match up.
Tron - This match doesn't need a splash, just rush them, artifact removal is good.
All in all, if you can get your hands on Atarka's Command, I would run green just because that card is huge. But looking at your meta, Black is best. Hopefully this helped and good luck!
I have always liked Check lands over Scars Taplands because late game they are just a better draw. Even though this deck shouldn't be going late game, just a precaution. I will try that, I have found Instigator to be better than loyalist in a few situations so that is why I choose to run only 3 Legion and 4 Instigator.
Just a few things I have noticed i'll point them out for you. Do not and I repeat do not run Torpor Orb in the 75 if you are running Foundry Street Denizen and Goblin Bushwhacker, it is just counter productive. With the addition of Atarka's Command mainboard, you don't need to run anti-lifegain in the sideboard, it is just overkill. You do need grave hate, so taking out the Leyline of Punishment and Torpor Orb for 3 Relic of Progenitus is another suggestion.
Also with Instigator, the point of running him mainboard is to get the big gobos out. Krenko, Mob Boss, Goblin King, Siege-Gang Commander, or even Boggart Ram-Gang are just some suggestions. Your deck is transitioning at the moment, you need to decide at this point if you want speed or stability. I have chosen stability because of Junk in my format.
Hopefully this helps.
Cool idea, someone was mentioning memnite when they are were running a Kuldotha Rebirth artifact/goblin. I agree with Ice though, it will win, but not the direction I feel we should be going.
Lands (21)
4x Cavern of Souls
6x Mountain
1x Forest
2x Rootbound Crag
4x Stomping Ground
4x Wooded Foothills
Gobo's (26)
4x Goblin Guide
4x Goblin Wardriver
4x Warren Instigator
3x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin King
3x Legion Loyalist
3x Goblin Grenade
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Atarka's Command
2x Collected Company
2x Blood Moon
2x Pithing Needle
2x Pyrite Spellbomb
2x Relic of Progenitus
3x Rending Volley
1x Dolmen Gate
3x Destructive Revelry
2x Choke
Let me know what you guys think of the list
The list seems simple enough, my only worry is Junk. Siege Rhino, Tarmogoyf and Courser of Kruphix are really painful against us. You may have the speed, but they have a lot more removal than we do. The skullcracks will help though.
How has Spikeshot Elder been? You seem to remove him a lot for the sideboard.
Have you considered adding Blood Moon and Goblin King? If you have, those two will help during this match up. It will also help with Tron, UR Aggro, Zoo, Dredge, Amulet Combo etc. It helps a lot if you plan on going to the GP yourself. Those are just some of the decks those two are good against. You would also have to remove -1 Mountain and +1 Forest if you do consider running BM.
You seem to run a lot of non-creature spells. 19 to be exact, have you considered running Monastery Swiftspear? Its more a burn deck creature and its not a goblin, but paired with Goblin Bushwhacker it could help.
Have you considered making your sideboard a bit less redundant? My advice;
-2 Destructive Revelry
-1 Rending Volley
-1 Skullcrack
-1 Pyrite Spellbomb
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+1 Shattering Spree
+2 Collected Company
These cards will help you recover from board wipes, provide grave hate/card advantage, and help against the affinity matchup.
Hope this helps, you are still doing well without my suggestions, keep up the good work!
Great job cimu! Mind giving us tournament update/matches/win/loss etc etc
Cut the 1 terminate, and 1 dismember. You got 4 bolts and 2 terminates mb, that should be enough to get around any troubling creatures, and it doesn't affect your game plan. Dismember is only good against certain decks and it dilutes the "All-In" Goblin approach.
If you want to put in Warren Instigator, you got to put in some bigger gobos. Goblin Rabblemaster, and Krenko, Mob Boss, are my suggestions. Reason being is he's useless when you double strike in a legion loyalist and a foundry street denizen, don't consider him unless you cut Foundry's.
So all in, here's my thoughts.
-4 Bobs, -1 Dismember, -1 Terminate
+2 wardriver, +4 Bushwhacker.
If you wanna go bigger
-4 bobs -1 dismember, -1 terminate, -4 denizen
+3 Wardriver, +3 Warren Instigator, +2 Rabblemaster, +2 Krenko
This interests me the most considering that once again the core list is being used to its effectiveness. It's also telling me, some people mentioned this a few pages back, that Foundry Street Denizen may not be as popular as it use to be. Even though it is 71.67%, it still hasn't been as good as I remember. Foundry and Chieftain, always seem to get the most attention. So what does everyone suggest we do about that, maybe give them stronger targets to choose from? Junk does it, they have goyf, rhino, Courser of Kruphix. Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of big gobos in this format. Maybe that's why I like the new SCG list, it has a lot to offer in terms of anti creature wipes with 8 lords, but every creature is a threat. Interesting....good job on this list. It's been very helpful.
Also i tried Boil in my sideboard before but never had enough testing with it. How has your testing been?
Electrickery is for tokens?
Oh and the list looks solid, besides no bushwhackers, I took them out for Goblin Wardriver and I miss them already.
Jwelt how are you buddy? Been a long time, you've been gone so long that I took over the goblin thread, who would have thought eh? First off I'd like to stay I am always a big fan of your decks, that being said, I'm gonna requote treachTV and say that any vial goblin list should be in the vial goblins thread. I don't think your list needs vials, I'm running a list similar to yours that I will post at the end so you can see where I am at currently. Other then that i have no complaints keep up with the testing.
I think you should consider removing shared animosity mainboard and try the new Foul-Tongue Shriek. The card itself doesn't add to creatures power but considering that fact that you run lots of token generators you could potentially kill them without dealing any combat damage. You don't have to remove SA for it, but it is something to consider.
Your sideboard looks fine to be honest, the Blood Moon band wagon is real though, it does stop a lot of decks at the moment, so that should be in your 75.
I find Goblin Rabblemaster is good in token-less versions, he just provides more sheer power and is a target that has to be taken care of or as said before paired with Legion Loyalist he just wins games by himself.
I have never liked Goblin Assault to be honest, I have had horrendous testing experience with it, so I would choose rabble master anyday over it, but that is just my opinion. Fact is, its harder to remove, and has a similar concept when it comes to goblins.
Now onto my list:
4x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin Guide
4x Goblin King
3x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Goblin Wardriver
2x Legion Loyalist
4x Warren Instigator
Spells (13)
2x Blood Moon
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Atarka's Command
2x Collected Company
2x Goblin Grenade
4x Cavern of Souls
2x Rootbound Crag
4x Stomping Ground
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Forest
6x Mountain
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Tin Street Hooligan
2x Goblin Ruinblaster
1x Zo-Zu the Punisher
2x Choke
2x Destructive Revelry
1x Gruul Charm
2x Pithing Needle
1x Dolmen Gate
2x Torpor Orb
Ok so the mainboard is similar to the SCG list. When i first looked at the list, I thought how weird it looked to me because Instigator, King, Rabble master? What is going on here, but it finished well so I tried it. I was very impressed with how well it performed for how wack i felt it was as a list. However, it had something missing, so i tried a green splash instead of black. The deck performed 10x better than its counter part. Collected Company is a power house. Bringing out a chieftain and king on the turn that I had a blood moon in play against Junk won me the game single handedly. Atarka's Command against Delver is such a slap in the face if they don't expect it.
As for the sideboard I am still testing certain things, Goblin Ruinblaster or Zo-Zu are for Tron/Amulet since they are popping up here and there. Orb is for junk/uwr (snapcaster)/living end/twin. Dolmen gate is for any creature based matchup where my gobos can't square up against. Gruul Charm is for tokens. Artifact hate is for affinity/any artifact based deck. Choke is for any deck with lots of islands.
Let me know if anyone disagrees with this list being the sample green list for the primer and any suggestions you guys may have for the future of the thread.
Thanks for the read!
Congratz on that outcome, I went 3/2 at my first tournament so kudos. As for your the main board, looks like a solid token build, the sideboard as you said could use some work. So here's my advice from your report and what I feel you should be looking out for.
-2 Forked Bolt
-1 Pyroclasm
-2 Smelt
-1 Magma Spray
-1 Act of Aggression
+2 Rending Volley
+2 Shattering Spree
+2 Everlasting Torment
+1 Blood Moon
That's my advice take it or leave it up to you sir
Twin - Twin really doesn't need a splash. We have Rending Volley which is red, which is our only real counter to Twin. Black can be splashed for Surgical Extraction or Duress/Thoughtseize if you want to take out the win con's i.e Splinter Twin, Deceiver Exarch, or Pestermite.
Abzan - I really only splashed black for this match up, Rain of Gore, Everlasting Torment, and Terminate are key to winning this match up. Also with Atarka's Command, green can now be splashed to prevent the lifegain from Siege Rhino, but i still recommend black.
Affinity - We have answers for affinity in red, with cards like Shattering Spree or Smash to Smithereens. Green can be considered for Tin Street Hooligan, Ancient Grudge, or Destructive Revelry.
Infect - Black is best, Terminate is huge in that match up.
Tron - This match doesn't need a splash, just rush them, artifact removal is good.
All in all, if you can get your hands on Atarka's Command, I would run green just because that card is huge. But looking at your meta, Black is best. Hopefully this helped and good luck!