2019 Holiday Exchange!
 
A New and Exciting Beginning
 
The End of an Era
  • posted a message on US Mecha vs Jap Mecha
    Evangelion. That's all that needs to be said, although it is sad to get our asses handed to us on July 4...
    Posted in: The Versus Forum
  • posted a message on League of Legends Season III
    Hey everyone! I'm TheHosecloth (summoner name also TheHosecloth), and I look forward to joining this community. Feel free to add me on League. I'll be popping in and out of the chat! Grin
    Posted in: Video Games
  • posted a message on [[M14]] Tidebinder Mage (Channel Fireball preview)
    Quote from Spring Breaker
    Tidebinder Mage only works against green 2/2 for 2 mana against red? burn fish at least if they made it a 0/3 it could hada achance, but 2/2 and no hexproof or pro red?

    Against green is a totally different story.

    Still, a bad card


    This I can agree with. This card has the potential to slow down a green-based strategy for sure, but it will more than likely eat a removal spell at the end step of the turn it got put down against a red deck. Meh, only time will tell.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [Primer] Tezzerator Control


    Just looking at some innovations we could make to the maindeck here. I'm a bit new to the Legacy format, so feel free to take my opinions with a grain of salt.

    Ral Zarek has piqued my interest due to synergies with lands, mana rocks (specifically Mox Opal for two activations before legend rule, thus allowing for a three-mana acceleration), Ratchet Bomb, Staff of Dominance, Relic of Progenitus, and creatures (pseudo-vigilance or clearing blockers for an alpha-strike). He also contributes to creature and planeswalker control, and he can provide reach. Of course, there are issues with the greedy manabase--Grixis colors and Sol Lands.

    Ral Zarek seems to provide a lot of cool interactions in the deck, and Mox Opal seems to open up some great plays with the new legendary rule. However, I don't think that the potential turn-2 Planeswalker should be forsaken for it, but rather that Mox should support our already stellar acceleration. What do you guys think about this take on the concept?
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on [Official][Primer/Development] U/B Draw-Go
    Quote from El Presidente
    Black gives us Liliana, BSZ, efficient spot removal, Grave Titan, and allows us to flash Forbidden Alchemy back without wasting a Snapcast. I don't see the need for a 3-color deck at the moment, you either play UB Draw Go or UW Tapout. UWDG has a bit of game with WSZ (which I admit I love, as a card) and the Spectral Procession wannabe, but you really need your removal to come at instant speed if you want to play Draw Go. All 2 of your white removal spells (O-Ring and DoJ) come at sorcery speed. When you're including all that good stuff, effective it may be; but Draw Go, it ain't. Until we get some efficient hard removal in white at instant speed, I don't consider white a contender for Draw Go. Personally, I don't think that Esper is the way to go. When you want lands, you want them coming in untapped. I have maybe 1 land cipt per game right now, and I like it that way; now of course, if someone (looking at you, Hosecloth) wants to build Esper, and tell me honestly that you have the same level of mana consistency as straight U/B and that you really are playing Draw Go, then I will lend credence to the shard and put some steam in that direction.

    Before I begin, please, do not take this as a personal attack on you. It is not my intent, for I hope this can be taken in a light of constrictive and positive criticism.

    I have never criticized what black can bring. On the contrary, I happily endorse it. The matter at hand is what white can do to enhance in the deck. I think you're developing a bit of tunnel vision that is detrimental to your analyses on card choices. That X-factor developing the tunnel vision? Instant speed. I am very well aware that this is a Draw-Go archetype, and that a reactionary style of play is preferred. However, I think you're unaware that we do not have to be purist in our card selections--running only instants--when a card is as powerful as Day of Judgment or Oblivion Ring. If I can rid the board of a deadly permanent on my turn to stabilize, I will do it. If I can wipe an opposing army threatening lethal on my turn to stabilize, yet again, I will do it. A card's worth in a build is not determined by it's card type, it's determined by it's efficiency and power. No one in this thread can credibly deny that Oblivion Ring is more efficient and powerful than Disperse and Ratchet Bomb in more cases, despite their instant speed traits. This is the same when dealing with Black Sun's Zenith versus Day of Judgment. I will respect an argument that analyzes the two cards' strengths and weaknesses, then presents an affirmative for one of the two choices. I cannot, however, respect an argument that attempts to counter my presentation with "It's not instant speed."

    Moving on to the valid argument you've presented about lands, this has already been addressed. The hit to consistency that a tri-color manabase will bring is something to factor in, but nothing we can shut down with mere speculation. In my humble opinion, gaining an efficient and powerful catch-all removal spell--along with a more efficient sweeper-is reason enough to test Esper in an attempt to resolve the speculation against it, positive or negative.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official][Primer/Development] U/B Draw-Go
    Quote from DarkestRitual
    I also have been trying out frost titan in this deck and its been VERY good.


    Frost Titan is definitely brimming with potential in a metagame with a plethora of midrange and aggro strategies. Heck, it can even shine in the control mirror against resolved Titans. I like what he can bring to the deck, perhaps we could explore a finisher distribution of 1 Frost Titan, 2 Grave Titan, 1 Consecrated Sphinx?

    And I think some of you are mistaken in making the notion that I'm only suggesting a white splash for gain against RDW Wink
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official][Primer/Development] U/B Draw-Go
    Quote from akratch
    -1 consecrated sphinx
    -2 forbidden alchemy

    +1 wurmcoil engine
    +2 ponder (alchemy is nice since it digs deep, but you don't have unburial rites or anything to capitalize off of throwing cards away.

    I really like the disperse, I feel like it's tech right now and maybe unexpected. it's no Into the roil but we take what we can get. Also with the loss of a lot of the consecrated sphinx synergy, I think diversifying your finishers with a wurmcoil is a good idea.


    How vital is Wurmcoil Engine at this point in time? Consecrated Sphinx gives you such an edge in attrition to the point where it can be nigh unstoppable when resolved. I see Wurmcoil Engine as more of a sideboard card in the aggressive strategies, but I could definitely be wrong in that regard.

    I feel as though Ponder is such a poor choice for a control deck lacking in shuffle effects. The 4 (and potentially 8) card filter with more synergy in the build is a lot more appealing. In short, Ponder, despite it's attractive U cost is very clunky and anti-synergistic. If I'm picking the best card out of the four, am I really sad to see the rest go? Wink

    Quote from Kovacs
    The main problem playing a draw go deck with all 3 colors is essentially our entire mana base will cipt. This means we can't leak until turn 3, and can't dissipate until t4. Also remember whenever you change your deck to have an advantage against one match up you're making it worse for another. If shrine is literally you're only concern than put in 2 disperse. However I wouldn't add white all together because slowing down our deck to that degree would make us weaker against pod decks, which honestly is something I'd rather have a good match up against than RDW since it's slowed down a lot with zen rotating.


    Not true at all, at least completely. Sometimes we will have lands come into play tapped, sometimes we won't. Is it worth the risk for better matchups due to Oblivion Ring and a more versatile sideboard? That's the golden question that exploring Esper will answer. Furthermore, the notion that bolstering one matchup weakens another is not strictly true. When I'm replacing what would be Ratchet Bombs and Disperses into Oblivion Rings--a more versatile form of removal--it improves more matchups with the expense lying in the build's script, not card choices. Shrine is not the only concern, for resolved Planeswalkers are quite the nuisance. Resolved Tempered Steels, opposing Oblivion Rings, and Birthing Pods are also some cards that I'm thinking would be an issue for raw UB. We have nowhere to go but up, with mere speculation bringing us down.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official][Primer/Development] U/B Draw-Go
    Quote from slipknot72102
    That's what I was thinking. I really don't see any white that I want in the main deck, but I might try white suns zenith as a 1 of. Now to build a good mana base.


    This is what I would play.

    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official][Primer/Development] U/B Draw-Go
    Quote from slipknot72102
    Well honestly we do need a plan against shrine. Disperse is pretty good against it, but I don't think I would side in steel sabotage just to have a dead card in hand.

    I'm honestly thinking about cutting the inkmoths for a small splash of white for timely reinforcements and oblivion ring from board.


    Precisely. Instead of running subpar answers in the maindeck to problem permanents (Ratchet Bomb), and having potentially dead cards post-board (Steel Sabotage), why not just splash white? You get two single mana white spells that deal with problem permanents and handle RDW with ease. With Oblivion Ring and Timely Reinforcements, I have a hard time seeing a stressful RDW matchup for much longer. I understand that this is a Blue/Black thread, but when the most efficient answer lies in another color, it's worth to experiment at the very least.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official][Primer/Development] U/B Draw-Go
    Omfgthetank, all valid points, sans the emphasis on Indestructable and Regeneration in your counterarguments against the choice of Sweepers and my comparison of Gideon and Elspeth to Liliana. I feel as though Hexproof is the keyword to keep in mind the most when building decks, for it is on one of the most hyped cards of the set (Geist of Saint Traft) and generally more popular right now when it comes to playability. The only case of Regeneration that I see being truly relevant is Thrun, the Last Troll, but time will tell. As for Liliana, I have no doubt that she will be a great planeswalker. However, we have to think about whether or not she is worth the collateral damage from her discarding spell, and whether or not she is worth it at a one-of. With her amazing 3cmc status, I'd think that she would be a three-of, at least, if she were really that good. So far as the splash, I feel as though making our curve consist of only single color spells in the early game would most certainly be optimal and smooth. Then, we would max out on fastlands and the enemy dual. The rest would be filled with about 9 basics to fuel the Core Set lands and 5 more Core Set dual lands.

    Quote from Tagonte
    These are all fair points, but these points are leading you out of this thread.

    This thread is for UB Draw Go, not Esper Tap Out Control (the deck you seem to want to want to be playing). I'm sure you can find an Esper Solar Flare or Esper Control thread elsewhere, or make your own if there isn't one immediately available.

    I am simply presenting something that could very well improve the deck. It's no secret that our deck has trouble dealing with permanents outside of creatures. If anything, I would splash solely for Oblivion Ring at a 3-of, for I feel as though that will give this deck the versatility it needs from losing temporary solutions to problem permanents (Into the Roil). Not to mention, there will be an upgrade in sweepers and a better aggro matchup game 1 and post-board. If the majority feels as though Esper is not worth going for, I'll gladly make another thread.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official][Primer/Development] U/B Draw-Go
    Quote from Omfgthetank
    In all seriousness, the only pure advantage you get from going white is O-Ring. Black carries the mass removal, the discard to deal with planeswalkers, and the planeswalkers to deal with the board. Moorland Haunt isn't that great in a deck with few targets to exile to create more creatures, yes evasive they may be, but with so few targets, esp targets you don't want in your graveyard, it simply won't prove to be that great.

    So we can't simply just overhaul the deck to facilate a single deck. We just need more weapons in these colors for that deck.

    First of all, I'll admit that I forgot that Moorland Haunt required exiling as a cost Redface Moving on, I'd like to know how you gathered that Oblivion Ring is the only "pure advantage" we obtain from white.

    Black does carry mass removal, but Day of Judgment is far more efficient than both Black Sun's Zenith and Life's Finale.

    Discard to deal with Planeswalkers... when we could just Oblivion Ring them. Interesting... and I'm sure we'll be running some discard in tandem with the excellent piece of removal.

    The only planeswalkers that Blue/Black have access to are Karn Liberated, Jace, Memory Adept, Sorin Markov, and Liliana of the Veil. Of these, Liliana and Karn (in my opinion) are the only playable ones in our particular build. However, the introduction of white brings both Elspeth and Gideon. Elsepth does a beautiful, and I mean beautiful job of deterring aggressive strategies. This is especially true in red based aggro decks, for she can function as a maindeckable pseudo-Timely Reinforcements. Gideon is certainly higher in terms of power, for he can mitigate damage, remove creatures, and jump into the fray himself. That stopping power he provides is good versus just about any matchup, and is definitely an upgrade from Liliana if you asked me.

    Now, I'm not suggesting that we add white just for RDW. I feel as though Gideon Jura, Oblivion Ring, and Day of Judgment all provide some upgrades in various departments throughout the deck. Not to mention, we get some sweet sideboard cards as well Wink
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Official][Primer/Development] U/B Draw-Go
    Quote from El Presidente
    So guys, excuse me while I sideboard 4x Ratchet Bomb. I just got blown out by Shrine of Burning Rage 3 games in a row and I'm not a happy camper. That card totally preys on our deck's strategy, and unfortunately Nurse Ratchet is all I can find to deal with it; well, that, or Steel Hellkite (which would be interesting to test).


    I was thinking of going Esper. That would grant of Oblivion Ring, Gideon, Day of Judgment, Moorland Haunt (great Draw-Go card), and some sick sideboard options. Specifically, Oblivion Ring would help a ton against pesky permanents such as Shrine of Burning Rage. Just some thoughts.

    Quote from Kovacs
    If you're going to bring in a card specifically for shrine, why not steel sabotage? It's cheaper and faster and can be used before and after it hits the table. Also with TS, pod, and blades even if necessary it's fairly versatile in the board.


    Not enough for maindeck use if you asked me, a white splash for Oblivion Ring seems a touch better.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [[Official]] [Developing] Puresteel
    Quote from TonyRo
    Why do people assume you always want WW on turn 2, and WWUB on turn 4? A lot of the time, you want to hold the Paladin back to ensure value, similarly with Tezzeret. Why the negativity if you haven't tested it? UB Tezzeret and UW Puresteel with a splash for Tezzeret are two completely different decks - I played both extensively before rotation, so I know. Even Tezzeret functions differently in both decks.

    Because these are the optimal timings of the deck. You are correct, some cards don't want to be played by the timing their converted mana cost suggests--these are reactive cards. Proactive cards in a deck that push for advantage, such as Puresteel Paladin and Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, want to be played as early as possible to ensure that they have an effect on the game for as long as possible. For what it's worth, I have only held back a Puresteel Paladin from playing on turn two when a blue player had counter mana up--this is seldom the case

    Tezzeret has a lot of really great, natural synergy with equipment. He's another great card draw engine for equipment, similar to Puresteel, which adds some redundancy. He's going to give the deck more resilience to board sweepers, and he ups the power level by doing really great things, even the turn he comes into play. Most games where I played him, he was untouchable because of Blade Splicer or Puresteel, and once they can't kill him, he just runs away with the game.


    He does, and that's the silver lining in including him. I do like him, I'm simply asking if it's worth it due to the strain on the diluted SOM-INN manabases.

    [QUOTE=---0_0---;/comments/3282483]Hi Guys! This is my first post but i have been following the puresteels threads for a while now.
    I think one of the best puresteel version post innistrad will be the UW one with Invisible Stalker. I have done a little bit of play testing and here is the version i like best so far.




    My biggest change is as you can see no mortarpod. Mortarpod wasnt terrible but without collar i think we have better options(like spellskite). I only have 1 powerhouse because the stalkers deal the damage.
    Here is some pros and general thoughts about this deck:
    1. Stalker drops on turn 2 and then you are able to drop sword on turn 3, which means you very often get a turn 4 hit with the sword.
    2. Its almost impossible to kill the blade carrier now.
    3. You get alot more good starting hands compared to the preinnistrad versions, making the deck more stable. Back then I was very dependent on paladin, now a starting hand with a sword and a Stalker get us quiet far.
    4. Because the new bladecarrier is a turn 2 drop and only 1/1, i run 6 swords (4 war and peace) to make sure it is equipped with a sword most of the time.
    5. The gameplan changes a little bit, now we dont really have that much control now its more about getting the stalker equipped and start hitting fast and hard and make sure we survive, thats why I run trinket mage. The mage provides us with dagger if we need to race faster, staff if we meed more time (against aggro for example), and the shield come in handy sometimes when we for example only have one big guy that also has to block or when we need a quick metalcraft.
    6. Sword of War and Peace feels alot better than Feast and Famine and its simply because it deals more damage and since we cant really control enemy creatures that well anymore we need the life to make sure we survive. Im not really sure about the one powerhouse spot, I think you could run the deck fine with only 4 stalkers and maybe put in some control card like oblivion ring here, you could also play Champion but i think Crusader is a little bit better because for most of the time its the dismember we need to be protected from and with that many sword of war and peace we get protected from all colors except blue anyway.

    Okay thats my thoughts about the deck feel free to roast it =) I like the idea with a UW+B splash to play tezzeret, I havent tried it or looked at it closer myself but if you somehow can make the mana flow im sure it could do well.

    Sorry for my bad english!

    An Invisi-Blade approach seems very powerful, but I'm wondering if there are more benefits in a synergy-based list as opposed to an individual power based list. Sword of Feast and Famine still gets the nod for me, for it demolishes midrange and control strategies--this is what most of the meta is projected to be sans Werewolves and Tempered Steel. Sword of War and Peace gets a very close second, since it augments our clock by so much.

    So far as where we should take the build, I'm a firm believer that tempo and synergy will prevail above all. Perhaps we could go for an almost Draw-Go style with Shimmer Myr? Perhaps we could maintain the old mantra of pushing for large amounts of advantage on our turn and having our opponent deal with it? Perhaps we adopt a new gameplan around our two cantriping engines: Puresteel Paladin and Mentor of the Meek? There are a ton of options, and I'm sure we can all reach an agreement on the best rendition of the deck with a bit of testing.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [[Official]] [Developing] Puresteel
    Quote from TonyRo
    I tested two matches on Cockatrice using my PureBlade + Tezzeret list from the previous page - one vs. UW Invisiblade, and one against GR Werewolves. Against Invisiblade I think I went 4-0 or 4-1, I can't remember, and against GR Werewolves, I went 2-0. Obviously, small sample size against potentially untuned decks, but interesting nonetheless. Tezzeret was nuts, make used Mortarpods into 5/5's for serious beatings, and the threat of his ultimate always forced concessions.

    No mana problems as of yet - Ponder definitely helps this deck out a lot. Any suggestions or questions are welcome. This deck seems decent thus far.


    When you're at the point of adding Tezzeret, do you really think having Puresteel Paladin in the mix would contribute enough to outweigh the disadvantages? Having WW early on into UB during the midgame seems a bit difficult to accomplish in the blue-based shard. Honestly, I'd go for straight UB Tezzeret--especially if most of your wins are off the back of his astounding synergistic nature

    Quote from germanturkey
    seems like its not as doom and gloom as i thought this deck was going to be. for a 3 drop, i've always rotated etched champion, mirran crusader, and Kemba, kha regent. I think champion is losing his luster a bit. any thoughts on the surgical extraction sideboard inclusion? i think it might warrant a mb if the hate gets to be too much. divine offerings should be included in the sb to get rid of that pesky stone.


    Etched Champion seems pretty fantastic in a world full of Dismember. A true bomb? No, but as resilient as the best of them!

    Surgical Extraction seems perfectly viable if a combo deck rears it's ugly head. At this point, I think it's safe to leave it out of sideboards.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.