Quote from Overmaster »
Strongly agreeing with your changes GrimPow. I was always skeptical when you switched to Reshaper and although I don't think Reshaper is a bad card in this deck I do think that Wasteland Strangler is more important. We are already so favoured against midrange that even more 2-for-1s are not nearly as important as shoring up our aggro match-ups. I agree with every single one of your changes and I think your deck has become a lot more robust for the transformation. As you cut the Mind Stones, and look into Reality Smasher over Oblivion Sower, do you still feel that the O-Sower and Ulamog package are nessecary? I see you testing the Heartless variety out now as well- do you perfer Ulamog when it's all-in ramped or do you perfer it as a plan B?
I suppose I've forgotten how good Sower is especially in a list that can combine it with 4 GQs main, 4 Relics, and Surgical Extractions to guarantee you can cast an Ulamog. I'm just nervous about how naturally reliant we are on getting different 2 card combos in our hand for every interaction. Synergy is one thing, but redundancy is another.
The only thing I'd like to see now is Shadowgripper adding some Disfigures into his MB!
I like Ulamog either way. I wouldn't want to cut it in either case. But if I had to trim down to 1 and cut the 3 Sowers for 4 Smashers, that sounds reasonable.
I definitely like Ulamog in the Heartless build as a 4 of because he comes down turn 4-6 in 90% of my games unless my opponent has disruption for my ramp. And even then it still has that same inevitable feeling as Tron does.
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I think you might have better luck doing the following:
+4 Bloodstained Mire (or any black fetch)
-4 swamp
+4 Fatal Push
-4 Tragic Slip
+1 Miren, the Moaning Well
-1 Arena
+4 Abyssal Persecutor
-4 Phyrexian Obliterator
-4 Vampire Nighthawk
+4 Gifted Aetherborn
I think the main switches here being Tragic Slip for Fatal Push (funny how similar the names are) and Obliterator for Persecutor will help the deck a lot.
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Good:
- more 1-for-1 removal is good for weenie goblins because that is exactly the kind of removal plan we can easily outpace. Also it helps more decks running (not red) be successful - decks that dont run anger of the gods or pyroclasm.
Bad:
- if you run a slower version of goblins with things like piledriver or 3cmc lords fatal push is bad. These trade very poorly with cards like push. Printing more efficient removal hurts these decks in multiple ways.
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The implications for Hope of Ghirapur are incredible:
Infect
sorcery speed removal
combo decks that we race
other non-creature artifact decks like tezzeret
boggles
death shadow zoo combo
more
Our ability to give this guy haste is incredible - locking opponents out of sweeper answers for that key 4th turn swing, or keeping decks like infect from being able to swing back effectively.
I am also having trouble fitting it. I think I want to run it as a 3-of and will probably cut
-2 atarka's command
-1 ornithopter
from my RG gobots build to start
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I ordered the set. Breyas foil is amazing but the rest arent so great. Atraxa is by far the worst. The foiling ruined the art completely. Its crazy to me the difference between these two cards. The most valuable one has the worst foiling. Disappointed.
Personally Breya made up for it, but i think most people are going tk be dissappointed in Atraxa. A big let down. The card is so dark that from more than a foot away it looks like a dark rectangle with nothing in it...
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+1
@Fel15
Just about the only recent developments here are gobots lists. You could go back to a stagnant thread if you want...
Talking about this is a waste of forum space. Since you are so concerned about derailing conversations. Goblins hasn't been a very competitive deck and people are sort if bored of the standard. Talking about new goblin variants (hardly new) is what is keeping this thread alive recently.
Gobots has as much "goblin" synergy as 8 whack. This is quite clear. Kuldotha rebirth - theres your synergy anyway. Let me know when they start making goblin artifacts...
Ugh
Edit-
Just for your peace of mind, I will point out that artifact interaction is a cornerstone of the tribe. Especially the goblins on Mirrodin (ever hear of the krark clan and their ironworks?)
To quote the very first section of the MTG Salvation Wiki:
"Goblins are a race of diminutive humanoids, frequently encountered in underground warrens in mountain areas. Goblins are usually portrayed with low intelligence and poor judgment, but often demonstrate a certain ingenuity and affinity for artifacts"
Goblins + Artifacts is a natural fit, and a flavor win.
There are so many different ways to make a goblin deck, don't get upset because some are different than yours.
#goblindecksmatter
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Here
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Personally i think R/G is a natural fit for goblins and dont see any drawback other than occasional fetch damage. The ability to run grudge and revelry out if the side is worth it imo. Plus obvious synergy with Burning Tree and atarkas.
To me it makes sense to start with whatever your meta allows for. Being that we dont have a bunch of data to determine an optimal build for damage output its more about the SB cards imo.
The way i see it - with gruul you arent conpromising any speed for the flexibility of the sb slots. In fact i think bte and atarkas make the deck faster
For a "sideboard guide" it definitely makes sense to work off of a mono-r skeleton though.
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Very nice list! I made some changes based on my playstyle for tonight (sort of a hybrid between our two lists posted above):
4x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x Bomat Courier
3x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Goblin Guide
4x Legion Loyalist
4x Signal Pest
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Reckless Bushwhacker
3x Mox Opal
3x Kuldotha Rebirth
4x Atarka's Command
Lands (15):
2x Bloodstained Mire
4x Copperline Gorge
3x Mountain
2x Stomping Ground
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Forked Bolt
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Destructive Revelry
2x Dolmen Gate
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Spellskite
2x Blood Moon
Some notes on playing the deck from 9ish games playtesting against other aggro decks last night:
This card was the most impressive single-card behind goblin guide and legion loyalist in the deck. The worst thing about it is deciding if you want to play it turn 1 or not. Evaluating your hand with this in it among other good T1 plays is a challenge, which speaks to its power. In testing I was frequently able to pop him for 2-3 cards at the end of T3 or beginning of turn 4 with no downside. He lives better than you might expect, because after people see what your deck does, they have a hard time killing this over your loyalists, guides, or even signal pests if removal is sparse (depending on the matchup). Usually it was correct to kill something else in our playtesting, which allowed bomat to balloon into treasure cruise on a stick from time to time. He has some sweet interactions I noticed while playing:
Wish me luck - this deck is fun and super fast. Thanks for your help.
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4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Spell Queller
4x Wasteland Strangler
4x Ulamog's Nullifier
2x Blight Herder
Spells (18):
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Path to Exile
4x Relic of Progenitus
4x Delay
2x Journey to Nowhere
Land (24):
1x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Flooded Strand
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Shambling Vent
1x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Watery Grave
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Ancestral Vision
1x Disenchant
1x Negate
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Detention Sphere
2x Flaying Tendrils
1x Damnation
Sorry for double post...
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Overall 4-0 1st place (aroud 60 or so people local FNM event)
Enablers (12):
4x Insolent Neonate
4x Faithless Looting
1x Collective Brutality
1x Lightning Axe
2x Tormenting Voice
Dredgers (12):
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
1x Darkblast
3x Life from the Loam
Payoff cards (16):
4x Narcomoeba
4x Bloodghast
4x Prized Amalgam
2x Haunted Dead
2x Conflagrate
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Verdant Catacombs
2x Dakmor Salvage
2x Blood Crypt
2x Stomping Ground
1x Steam Vents
1x Mountain
1x Forest
1x Swamp
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Lightning Axe
3x Thoughtseize
3x Ancient Grudge
1x Collective Brutality
1x Golgari Charm
2x Gnaw to the Bone
1x Scourge Devil
1x Vengeful Pharaoh
Round 1: CoCo Elves 2-1 on the draw
Game 1: mull to 5 and keep is okay - only one grave troll and an axe. I axe his t1 dork at instant speed and dredge on my draw step and completely whiff. No dredgers or payoff cards. I proceed to do nothing until turn 5 or so when I go off and get almost every creature out and the following turn he Company's into two shaman of the pack for lethal.
Sideboarding:
+2 Engineered Explosives
+1 Golgari Charm
+1 Collective Brutality
+1 Lightning Axe
-1 Haunted Dead
-1 Bloodghast
-2 Tormenting Voice
-1 Life from the Loam
Game 2: I keep a good hand. by T2 I have 8 power on the board (2 amalgams and a ghast). He plays a relic of progenitus and activates the exile GY after I dredge on my T3 draw. I had a conflagrate in hand and I cast it for 1 to the face following up with a lethal attack and flashback from the GY to kill his entire board on T4. He mulled to get that relic.
Game 3: He keeps a 1 lander and I axe his dork, next turn I collective brutality and and kill his second dork and take his chord. I think he died on t4-5 after doing mostly nothing.
Thoughts: This matchup seems like nothing to worry about. Collective Brutality was great, so was axe. Conflagrate on his entire board seemed almost overpowered.
Round 2: Eldrazi Tron 2-1 on the draw (I faced a friend of mine)
Game 1: the deck completely whiffs after a few dredges with absolutely no payoff. He hard casts an Ugin and I scoop. This was a whiff-hard situation. Two bad game 1 whiffs in a row flustered me a little and I know I made at least 1 misplay in game 2 because of it.
Sideboarding:
+3 Thoughtseize
+2 Ancient Grudge
+1 Lightning Axe
+1 Vengeful Pharaoh
-1 Life from the Loam
-1 Haunted Dead
-2 Tormenting Voice
-1 Bloodghast
-1 Darkblast
-1 Conflagrate
Game 2: I had some very respectable dredging getting a decent amt of power by t2-3. At one point I used my collective brutality to drain and discard an all is dust - he had two in hand. After he cast the all is dust I was able to get everything back for the most part so it wasn't a big deal. He also played his batterskull and bounced it back to his hand 3 times while I kept Ancient Grudging it. At one point I lightning axed his Thought Knot Seer in response to the trigger and he was able to exile the bloodghast I drew off the TKS. This was my misplay - I should have dredged off that trigger. He was a bit flooded and wasn't able to do much outside of the batterskull that kept having to retreat. I think the game ended on T5-6. Can't remember. I do remember that I ended the game with 1 card left in my library though - I had to dredge very far to find my second ancient grudge to attempt to kill his batterskull.
Sideboarding:
+1 Ancient Grudge (after seeing the batterskull)
-1 Collective Brutality
Game 3: This game I dredged like crazy with 2 neonates and a grave troll and a faithless looting. On T4 I attacked with a huge team into his TKS and Smasher only to followup with with a conflagrate to kill them (they both blocked Amalgams). I also conflaged my own bloodghast so I could play a land and get back almost the whole team. After his turn he scoops. He had an ugin in his hand he wasn't able to get online. He never attacked into my vengeful pharaoh.
Thoughts: I feel this matchup is very winnable, but you definitely have to fear that Ugin. I am lucky to not have seen him and the dredge gods were in my favor.
Round 3: G-W Death & Taxes (not eldrazi taxes) 2-0 on the draw
Game 1: He keeps a double ghost quarter aether vial hand and plays very slowly as I roflstomp by T4. He had no idea how my deck worked and had to read every card except the dredgers and ghasts.
Sideboard:
+1 Collective Brutality
+3 Ancient Grudge
+1 Vengeful Pharaoh
-1 Stinkweed Imp
-1 Conflagrate
-1 Life from the Loam
-2 Tormenting Voice
Game 2: He has a much better start, but I am all gas once again. His first creature is a thalia (original one) - this card definitely slowed me down. My T3 he flickerwhisps one of my tokens using vial, but I axe it so he cant block anything. I play the haunted dead again. His T5 he actually gets out a couple good blockers including a mirran crusader and a serra avenger in addition to his thalia. On my last turn I am able to conflagrate his entire board and attack for the win.
Thoughts: This matchup seemed really easy to win probably because he told me he had no GY hate in his board and a very poor understanding of the dredge deck.
Round 4: Infect 2-0 on the play
Game 1: I had an awesome dredge representing 9 power at the end of my second turn. I had to play conservatively around his blighted agent the entire game which got me to 8 poison. He also had a n inkmoth nexus on standby. I kept leaving narcomoebas to block which slowed down my clock quite a bit. He burned a pump spell with lightning axe to save the blighted agent and once he was out of cards I was able to conflagrate his entire board and attack for the win (t5 I think).
Sideboard:
+1 Vengeful Pharaoh
+3 Ancient Grudge
+1 Lightning Axe
+1 Collective Brutality
-1 Stinkweed Imp
-1 Bloodghast
-2 Tormenting Voice
-1 Haunted Dead
-1 Life from the Loam
Game 2: His first two turns open with two noble hierarch and a blighted agent. I have some successful dredging (neonate opener) and on my T2 I collective brutality his blighted agent. he responds with a mutagenic growth to save it, but I still get to discard his become immense and get the life swing. Side note- his deck does a ton of self-damage making this matchup a bit easier to close out. This game I was able to dredge a darkblast and I kept forcing him to pump to save his guys. I was able to dredge up both conflagrates and force him to use a pump to save his agent again while I nuke both hierarchs. Eventually he ran out of pumps and with me at 6 poison I went all in on the attack. He had an agent, elf, and two inkmoth to block with. He trades on everything to stay alive and I conflagrate him for exact damage with the second one i dredged.
Thoughts: This was by far the most thinking I had to do in a match - constantly making sure he couldn't sweep in and kill me. The timing of my kill spells was crucial to force him to pump his guys when he couldn't attach with them. My dredges were very good both games. Narcomoebas are amazing blockers in this matchup.
Overall thoughts on the night:
Thanks for reading, and Lantern - ty for the list!