What decks are going to play LS? Esper control, sure. Junk Tokens, they have better for making tokens. And neither are going to be big, they will see play because people want them to be good, but they won't be. Not until Gatecrash gets released.
In an aggressive deck, wouldn't you want every card you have to have some kind of body? Oblivion Ring doesn't, neither does Detention Sphere. And that turn 3 detain in an aggro deck can secure you the win. In a Human deck, that can also boost your Champion of the Parish.
A lot of people keep mentioning Lingering Souls, and it is a great card, and can stop the Skyknight, but honestly, how often have you seen it played? In all my testing, I have barely seen this card hit. 1/1s aren't that amazing right now in the meta, even if for 3/5 mana and populate.
I personally love Skyknight, one of the top 3 favorite cards in RtR. I also play a Bant Human deck with Mayor of Avabruck. By making it a 4/2 it will take away a lot of these "it dies to removal" crap. You than throw in something like Sublime Archangel, and whenever it attacks, it's gonna be a 5/3 at the smallest, and works wonderfully on the curve.
Sure it competes with GoST for the 3 slot:
1. They fill two total different roles
2. "I better not have more than one drop in this mana slot" - Noone ever
3. Flying can be absolutely brutal in today's metagame thanks to ery few things actually having Flying, that are seeing play.
I absolutely love this card, and Detain in general. I have never been dissapointed in testing when drawing ANYTHING with detain. I have been testing Martial Law in an Esper control deck,not very impressed with the deck, but very much with the card itself.
It's really great in the situation you mentioned or forcing them into a wrath, and than dropping a PW. I want to try this in more of a midrange deck, but I think it will be better when Orzhov comes out, if they have any kind of taxation mechanic.
I personally play Bant Humans, and the power is absolutely amazing. A few things I have noticed while playing mine...
Silverblade is an absolute monster, and much like Hero of the Bladehold was, must be aswered, but gains the benifit as, if its not answered immediatly, they are probably going to take a TON of damage off the bat.
Thalia wrecks a lot of decks long enough to put them so far into the hole that they need to switch their game plan, which a lot of decks don't like doing mid game.
Lyev Skyknight...test it. He has won me a ton of games, not only because of being able to fly, but with the uprising of PWs, he can shut them down for a turn to either take away their loyalty, or take the big W. In combination with Silverblade, he is going to give your opponent a bad day.
I run Bant because green gives us so many things. Desendant's Path for one. A lot of people forgot about this card because it didn't do well, but now the meta has changed, and I love this card in my deck. Also, Mayor of Avabruck is much better than a Gather on turn two to follow up your champion. Hitting turn 1 Champ, turn 2 Mayor, turn 3 Silverblade is a crushing play. He also acts as somewhat HotP. If he flips, he sits there and pumps out 3/3s all day.
I think this is some sort of UW deck could wrok very well. In combination with Martial Law, you can lock the board down until you draw a wipe.
However, the format doesn't have any kind of playable enchantress, or cheap effective enchantments that would work in this style. Man, I wish they would reprint the Urza enchantments that turned into a creature.
I honestly didn't see a need for Cavern, but that was before I added the blue completely. haha. I've actually added 3 Caverns.
+3 Cavern of Souls
-2 Plains
-1 Forest
Zombies is not a match I fear, so I didn't include Elite, and SB space is a little tight at the moment. With the amount of removal they have compared to the amount of creatures I have...it doesn't really need it IMO. I will test it though over something like Captian as he has become really dissapointing.
Champion was in my original list, but he never really became useful. In theory he is a monster with 34 Humans all below 3cmc, and Descendant's Path, but I never wished I had his ability because everything I didn't want to block was 4+/x so he would have to be in play for a quick minute to become relevant and I don't really want to over extend my board that much.
The deck is SUPER resilient. Not only am I able to drop a creature every turn, but I don't suffer the backsplash of Zombie GY hate. Even after a board wipe, I can normally drop 2-3 creatures the next turn that are monsters of a threat at that point in the game.
It was orignally GW, but Lyev Skyknight and New Prahv Guildmage made me add U. They have broken and swung games for me so many times it's ridic.
Lyev being able to shut down ANYTHING the opponent drops for a turn, allowing an alpha strike or grabbing onto one of the Soulbound beasts in the deck is incredible. When he was first spoiled, everyone loved him, than as more came out, he was left in the dust. I am still in love with this card thanks to his massive power for cost ratio, and his Flying have won me games multiple times.
NPG shouldn't need a lot of explination since almost any deck running UW has at least tested him. Giving my Champ Flying, or shutting down a permenant of the opponents in the late game...oomph...what an impact.
Mayor is a straight powerhouse in this deck. Going first turn Champ, into turn two mayor gives me the same offensive power as Champ > Gather, but a whole lot better if I can drop Silverblade or Lyev turn three. If he gets flipped, so what? I'm getting a 3/3 at the end of my turn, which just puts more pressure on the opponent. He is a deal with or die card.
Captian of the Mists is kind of a new card added. I wanted to see how it played out, being able to stop a block or untap a Double Striker for my own block. He hasn't dissapointed me, but he hasn't really impressed me. It's also nice to switch him out g2 giving me the slots to do that.
Descendant's Path was the whole reason for the deck. With 34 creatures that all share a creature type...this is the number one card advantage engine inside this monstrosity. Once it hits...it means I already have the mana to cast EVERYTHING inside the deck, so if I flip a land, it gets rid of dead draws...if it flips a creature...that's just another threat they have to draw the wipe on or waste a removal on. A turn two Path off a pilgrim usually means I will win thanks to dropping more and more threats.
I haven't kept a detailed log on my matchups, since I'm still in tuning mode, but once I get my testing group together for serious testing, I will add what I find. But here is what I have noticed since testing started.
Zombies
If I see Nearheath Pilgrim, I can typically outlast any kind of aggressive plan they have. Give me a Lyev, and I can throw their tempo off where I gain the lead. I won't lie, it can get close, but I have a much better threat denisty than they do, and game two...I can bring in Rest in Peace, which will limit them to the point where I pull so far ahead all they can do is block and hope I forget to attack on a turn or something. If they change up to the point where I fear my life, I can bring in Heroe's Reunion and that will give me such an advantage for long enough that I can win.
Bant
This all comes down to an aggressive start, and me drawing one of the U cards. Flying wins this match, and it is a rough one. Depending on which one they are playing (midrange, tempo or control). If I see a Lyev, I can typically crush them early. If they hit a sweep, it's not as bad as they think, since I can rebuild my side a lot faster than they can. If it goes into the late game, Gavony is what wins that match.
Izzet/Grxis
This is probably the hardest match. They typically have a ton of low cost spot removal, and as you can see, a lot of the guys are pretty low toughness, making it easier for them to win. And Bonfire...blech...bonfire. lol.
Angel is an amazing card, and an absolute beast. I tried a Bant Ramp list with it, and it's swings games, but I don't see it as a pillar in the format, just like Thragtusk. Although btoh are amazing cards, they are not cards that the first thing put into a deck. Normally they are added when you get to the support/win condition section.
I really enjoy this deck, although I am using 4x Golgari Charm instead of the cage and salvage. The only thing that bothered me was some of the draws were really ramp heavy with no action, or all action and no ramp. I am still learning the mulligans though.
This deck really made me see how powerful Angel of Serenity can really be. Absolute monster. I want to put a Terminus in here, but it seems like it would hurt more than help.
I think BG Splinterfright could do some cool things, if GY hate doesn't pop up in every sb. But that seems to be the big killer of SF and BV decks. Great and fun strategies, but not very viable because of the hate out there.
Gro was a deck long before Phyrexian mana was around. Dryad is a monster with cheap spells.
Although, I do think you are throwing too many green spells in here. Focus on the UW with only your Dryad's and Rancor's for green, this will help keep your mana base a little more stable, and it is all you really need. You even said it yourself, that the Selesnya Charm is only another card. You can easily switch it out with other cards that are going to help you manage tempo.
This card in Gro is pretty redunc imo. There are a decent amount of cards that will be dead against certain decks. Why not get some kind of value out of them? Also, in Gro, the QD will still trigger gaining the counters on two seperate creatures. It's not something your going to want to use EVERY spell or EVERY chance you get, but I can totally see the Gro deck becoming very very similar to the old Tog-Gro deck thanks to this guy.
It is kinda sad when a 6/6 for 4 is being called mediocre. People are talking about this and that keeping it from being good, but its being talked like the deck throwing this down isn't going to have other cards. You have 54-58 other cards in your deck. Being able to handle the tokens they are pumping out, killing that ZC they drop, etc. I will gladly play this card in almost any deck running black.
His ultimate isn't going to play that much into the factor of inculding him into a deck, I mean, honestly, how often do you use a PWers ultimate?
His +1 is great to help protect him, especially in a meta that is using a bunch of smaller dudes to reduce you to 0.
The -2 is the most attractive part of him. With his first ability, you are gain so much card advantage out of him, it's redic.
I can totally see him being used in combination with Timayo to lock down the board and gain such an advantage. With the cards we have seen UW control might be a very very real threat on slowing this metagame down.
Angel of Jubilation...check
Favorable Winds...check
Mayor of Avabruck...check
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad...check
What decks are going to play LS? Esper control, sure. Junk Tokens, they have better for making tokens. And neither are going to be big, they will see play because people want them to be good, but they won't be. Not until Gatecrash gets released.
In an aggressive deck, wouldn't you want every card you have to have some kind of body? Oblivion Ring doesn't, neither does Detention Sphere. And that turn 3 detain in an aggro deck can secure you the win. In a Human deck, that can also boost your Champion of the Parish.
I personally love Skyknight, one of the top 3 favorite cards in RtR. I also play a Bant Human deck with Mayor of Avabruck. By making it a 4/2 it will take away a lot of these "it dies to removal" crap. You than throw in something like Sublime Archangel, and whenever it attacks, it's gonna be a 5/3 at the smallest, and works wonderfully on the curve.
Sure it competes with GoST for the 3 slot:
1. They fill two total different roles
2. "I better not have more than one drop in this mana slot" - Noone ever
3. Flying can be absolutely brutal in today's metagame thanks to ery few things actually having Flying, that are seeing play.
It's really great in the situation you mentioned or forcing them into a wrath, and than dropping a PW. I want to try this in more of a midrange deck, but I think it will be better when Orzhov comes out, if they have any kind of taxation mechanic.
Silverblade is an absolute monster, and much like Hero of the Bladehold was, must be aswered, but gains the benifit as, if its not answered immediatly, they are probably going to take a TON of damage off the bat.
Thalia wrecks a lot of decks long enough to put them so far into the hole that they need to switch their game plan, which a lot of decks don't like doing mid game.
Lyev Skyknight...test it. He has won me a ton of games, not only because of being able to fly, but with the uprising of PWs, he can shut them down for a turn to either take away their loyalty, or take the big W. In combination with Silverblade, he is going to give your opponent a bad day.
I run Bant because green gives us so many things. Desendant's Path for one. A lot of people forgot about this card because it didn't do well, but now the meta has changed, and I love this card in my deck. Also, Mayor of Avabruck is much better than a Gather on turn two to follow up your champion. Hitting turn 1 Champ, turn 2 Mayor, turn 3 Silverblade is a crushing play. He also acts as somewhat HotP. If he flips, he sits there and pumps out 3/3s all day.
However, the format doesn't have any kind of playable enchantress, or cheap effective enchantments that would work in this style. Man, I wish they would reprint the Urza enchantments that turned into a creature.
+3 Cavern of Souls
-2 Plains
-1 Forest
Zombies is not a match I fear, so I didn't include Elite, and SB space is a little tight at the moment. With the amount of removal they have compared to the amount of creatures I have...it doesn't really need it IMO. I will test it though over something like Captian as he has become really dissapointing.
Champion was in my original list, but he never really became useful. In theory he is a monster with 34 Humans all below 3cmc, and Descendant's Path, but I never wished I had his ability because everything I didn't want to block was 4+/x so he would have to be in play for a quick minute to become relevant and I don't really want to over extend my board that much.
4 Forest
2 Gavony Township
5 Plains
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
4 Temple Garden
Creatures
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Mayor of Avarbruck
3 Nearheath Pilgrim
4 Silverblade Paladin
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Captian of the Mists
3 New Prahv Guildmage
4 Lyev Skyknight
2 Descendant's Path
2 Ray of Revelation
3 Heroe's Reunion
3 Detention Sphere
3 Daybreak Ranger
4 Rest in Peace
The deck is SUPER resilient. Not only am I able to drop a creature every turn, but I don't suffer the backsplash of Zombie GY hate. Even after a board wipe, I can normally drop 2-3 creatures the next turn that are monsters of a threat at that point in the game.
It was orignally GW, but Lyev Skyknight and New Prahv Guildmage made me add U. They have broken and swung games for me so many times it's ridic.
Lyev being able to shut down ANYTHING the opponent drops for a turn, allowing an alpha strike or grabbing onto one of the Soulbound beasts in the deck is incredible. When he was first spoiled, everyone loved him, than as more came out, he was left in the dust. I am still in love with this card thanks to his massive power for cost ratio, and his Flying have won me games multiple times.
NPG shouldn't need a lot of explination since almost any deck running UW has at least tested him. Giving my Champ Flying, or shutting down a permenant of the opponents in the late game...oomph...what an impact.
Mayor is a straight powerhouse in this deck. Going first turn Champ, into turn two mayor gives me the same offensive power as Champ > Gather, but a whole lot better if I can drop Silverblade or Lyev turn three. If he gets flipped, so what? I'm getting a 3/3 at the end of my turn, which just puts more pressure on the opponent. He is a deal with or die card.
Captian of the Mists is kind of a new card added. I wanted to see how it played out, being able to stop a block or untap a Double Striker for my own block. He hasn't dissapointed me, but he hasn't really impressed me. It's also nice to switch him out g2 giving me the slots to do that.
Descendant's Path was the whole reason for the deck. With 34 creatures that all share a creature type...this is the number one card advantage engine inside this monstrosity. Once it hits...it means I already have the mana to cast EVERYTHING inside the deck, so if I flip a land, it gets rid of dead draws...if it flips a creature...that's just another threat they have to draw the wipe on or waste a removal on. A turn two Path off a pilgrim usually means I will win thanks to dropping more and more threats.
I haven't kept a detailed log on my matchups, since I'm still in tuning mode, but once I get my testing group together for serious testing, I will add what I find. But here is what I have noticed since testing started.
Zombies
If I see Nearheath Pilgrim, I can typically outlast any kind of aggressive plan they have. Give me a Lyev, and I can throw their tempo off where I gain the lead. I won't lie, it can get close, but I have a much better threat denisty than they do, and game two...I can bring in Rest in Peace, which will limit them to the point where I pull so far ahead all they can do is block and hope I forget to attack on a turn or something. If they change up to the point where I fear my life, I can bring in Heroe's Reunion and that will give me such an advantage for long enough that I can win.
Bant
This all comes down to an aggressive start, and me drawing one of the U cards. Flying wins this match, and it is a rough one. Depending on which one they are playing (midrange, tempo or control). If I see a Lyev, I can typically crush them early. If they hit a sweep, it's not as bad as they think, since I can rebuild my side a lot faster than they can. If it goes into the late game, Gavony is what wins that match.
Izzet/Grxis
This is probably the hardest match. They typically have a ton of low cost spot removal, and as you can see, a lot of the guys are pretty low toughness, making it easier for them to win. And Bonfire...blech...bonfire. lol.
This deck really made me see how powerful Angel of Serenity can really be. Absolute monster. I want to put a Terminus in here, but it seems like it would hurt more than help.
Although, I do think you are throwing too many green spells in here. Focus on the UW with only your Dryad's and Rancor's for green, this will help keep your mana base a little more stable, and it is all you really need. You even said it yourself, that the Selesnya Charm is only another card. You can easily switch it out with other cards that are going to help you manage tempo.
His +1 is great to help protect him, especially in a meta that is using a bunch of smaller dudes to reduce you to 0.
The -2 is the most attractive part of him. With his first ability, you are gain so much card advantage out of him, it's redic.
I can totally see him being used in combination with Timayo to lock down the board and gain such an advantage. With the cards we have seen UW control might be a very very real threat on slowing this metagame down.