Cycling creature with flying is big deal for us imho. Never had that before....it provides fast clock with evasion.
I kept saying that the one cycler I wish was legal in Modern was Primoc Escapee, which I would happily play in LE - but now I don't even need to. Archfiend of Ifnir just blows it out of the water.
I don't know, I think Archfiend is in contention as a 2-mana cycling option right off the cuff. One of the greatest boons we have is a repertoire of creatures that can ignore Lighting Bolt. Archfiend still fits that bill, while still blocking everything a Jungle Weaver could block. And on top of that, it can provide some incidental value if you find yourself cycling post-LE.
But it's important to note that the spoilers are still very young; we may yet see cards spoiled that eclipse Archfield of Whatever in feasibility. Let's wait a while longer.
Meanwhile, we can all celebrate that cycling is back!
Is there a second level primer for this deck, so i can know about matchups and what to siddeboard for what, and what to do about a turn 1/ turn 2 hate carddon
Am i trying to top 8 a protour, no, but i would like to hustle my LGS's and actually win an FNM (Ive gotten close, but ive never actually won an FNM)
While I admit it doesn't have a blurb on the Ad Nauseam matchup (yet; I've been busy trying to land another job), the primer DOES have a matchup guide, and a list of general tips for dealing with hate cards.
Lantern is always a hard matchup, they don't rely on creatures and they have a lot of mb choices that are naturally good against us. Bridge, hand disruption, surgical can really do a number against our deck. Slaughter games and ingot chewers are the best answers if you're expecting the deck but otherwise, just do I do in the blind which is hedge on the odds that you won't run into the deck because not a lot of people play it.
I've played against Lantern a few times and it's always been a pretty smooth ride, actually. So many of our cards can change the top card of our library that it's actually pretty tough for them to lock you out completely. As was noted above by Termtg, Ingot Chewer is a house out of the sideboard. You can't go wrong with any sort of artifact removal, really. Surgical Extraction does suck, but that's actually a reason to keep Faerie Macabre in - you can exile whatever they target to fizzle the Extraction.
Hey Tim here who piloted that living end pile at GP Bris.
I didn't test much but I've been playing with that blood moon version for a while. I actually cut a 3rd avalanche rider for the Kari Zav Expertise.
Expertise was great every time i cast it.
Things that happened at the GP.
- Casting it to take their Scooze that was sandbagging to swing in for the win. Also taking random goyfs as well.
- keeping living end hands.
- take their suited up vault skirge to take myself out of lethal
Moon was also good, especially with riders that take their last basic in play.
think i just got lucky with the matchups throughout the GP. Only lost to burn and ad nauseum.
Hey Tim, congratulations on your performance in Brisbane, and thanks for taking some time to chat with us! We really appreciate it, man.
Great to hear about your high opinion of Kari Zev's Expertise - I was initially skeptical of its utility outside of casting a Living End from your hand, but it sounds like the occasional Threaten has a lot more uses than I thought!
His deck seems very much tuned to account for the influx of midrange/control. A heavy land disruption package like that really seems to target midrange decks and tron that preys on midrange decks. The expertise seems to be against the grindy blue control decks with remand.
But without actually asking him how those cards played out and his matchups throughout the tournament, there is no knowing if his deck choices are the real deal.
edit: rough stuff going against lantern. It's not pretty and only two ingot chewers in the SB. Feelsbadman.
Yeah, I agree; deck definitely feels heavily tuned to a predicted meta. No Architects of Will, things like Pulse of Murasa in the sideboard, full Fulminators + Avalanche Riders main... playing the long game was definitely the plan here.
I'm solidly in the Kessig Wolf Run camp, myself. There's a very low opportunity cost to having a single colorless mana source in the deck, and the ability to tack trample onto your burdles is super relevant; it keeps something like a Lingering Souls from halting your offense post-LE, and lets you smash through fat delve creatures like Gurmag Angler and Tasigur, the Golden Fang without spending a card.
Here is an idea for the deck:
Obviously, due to the cascade shell, the deck is pretty similar to restore balance.
The cascade spells, SSG, and similar early interaction restricted by cost.
Fulminator mage, blood moon, and faerie macabre can all be pretty good in restore balance too.
After a bit of testing, it turns out that monstrous carabid and deadshot minotaur work within restore balance.
They are not amazing, but they work, they can either cycle early to find your pieces, or act as win conditions once you wiped everything.
In a similar way, adding a couple of PW to a living end list makes the plan a little less streamlined, but its not going against it.
So the 2 decks can have a super similar shell, but are hated on differently.
That sounds like the perfect place for a transformational SB?
~A deck or two~
Restore balance deck for game 2, once they bring in all their graveyard hate
Or the other way around maybe, balance for g1, living end for g2.
Even without the advantage of surprise, it would still make SBing awkward for a lot of opponents. Are you bringing in stony silence, or rest in peace? Both? Can you still survive people casting 5 mana 4/4s? Gargadons, blood moons and PW?
Obviously, the 2 decks I posted here are pretty rough drafts, just to help visualise what it could look like.
What do you think?
I think you'll fool your local meta exactly once. Kind of a funny idea, but not one I would investigate as a solution. The biggest question to answer is: does Balance do well against strategies that Living End struggles against?
MLD needs to exist because I am so sick and tired of ramp decks dominating local metas just because their natural foil is considered taboo.
"But Wyvern, MLD isn't the solution because of how feel-bad it is for the non-ramp players caught in the crossfire."
Please stop. MLD IS a solution; we're just so afraid of offending people that we lie to ourselves and pretend that Keldon Firebombers and Natural Balance are the only ways to halt the ramp menace. I can't remember the last time I 'Geddoned after someone else's Boundless Realms and heard anyone but the ramp player complain.
Personal anecdote: My most common use of MLD is in Karona, False God Enchantress - cycling Decree of Annihilation after I've gone Epic with Enduring Ideal is typically enough to shuffle up for another game. Similar situation to Schutzwald's Mogis deck up there.
In certain situations it can beat ramp, but as others have pointed out it isn't as simple as firing off geddon. After Boundless Realms? Yeah, they've probably got 60-75% of their land out at that point, you'll neuter them. Did they just dump their hand into ramp spells and are planning on drawing into threats and casting their commander? Then yes, you'll set them back quite a bit. But if the player just hit 3 ramp spells early, and you geddon, then they will recover faster than anyone else because they probably still have enough ramp and lands coming. The timing is difficult for a lot of players to judge, and so most people's experience is with players who use MLD incorrectly (mostly because, like most strategies, you only get good at it with practice, and since MLD played poorly is so unpopular many people take it out after a few bad games).
Yes, you're right. I shouldn't have implied that beating ramp is as easy as casting Armageddon - you've gotta be smart about it. And that's the most challenging part.
MLD needs to exist because I am so sick and tired of ramp decks dominating local metas just because their natural foil is considered taboo.
"But Wyvern, MLD isn't the solution because of how feel-bad it is for the non-ramp players caught in the crossfire."
Please stop. MLD IS a solution; we're just so afraid of offending people that we lie to ourselves and pretend that Keldon Firebombers and Natural Balance are the only ways to halt the ramp menace. I can't remember the last time I 'Geddoned after someone else's Boundless Realms and heard anyone but the ramp player complain.
Personal anecdote: My most common use of MLD is in Karona, False God Enchantress - cycling Decree of Annihilation after I've gone Epic with Enduring Ideal is typically enough to shuffle up for another game. Similar situation to Schutzwald's Mogis deck up there.
Won't cast anything but living end though since it's 2 cmc or less
The ability is not the worst thing in the world even if you do not have a LE in hand, since it is real possible they have some high value target like an eldrazi or something you can yoink for benefit. I think this card COULD be a 1 of in a list as a way to purge a LE out of your hand, perhaps as a sideboard option for control matches. It being mono red is nice too as it allows you to cast from under a blood moon.
It's almost like they knew we were desperate for a good card out of this cycle, and decided to make it "cmc 2 or less" just to piss us off. lol
new spoiler from aether revolt, kinda hit or miss but probably worth to consider.
this would be perfect if it only hits instant or sorcery.
This is basically like the time we all convinced ourselves that Bloodbraid Elf was worth playing as an "extra cascade spell but it's okay if it hits Fulminator Mage or Beast Within because those are still good too, guys."
I lol'd.
I kept saying that the one cycler I wish was legal in Modern was Primoc Escapee, which I would happily play in LE - but now I don't even need to. Archfiend of Ifnir just blows it out of the water.
But it's important to note that the spoilers are still very young; we may yet see cards spoiled that eclipse Archfield of Whatever in feasibility. Let's wait a while longer.
Meanwhile, we can all celebrate that cycling is back!
While I admit it doesn't have a blurb on the Ad Nauseam matchup (yet; I've been busy trying to land another job), the primer DOES have a matchup guide, and a list of general tips for dealing with hate cards.
I've played against Lantern a few times and it's always been a pretty smooth ride, actually. So many of our cards can change the top card of our library that it's actually pretty tough for them to lock you out completely. As was noted above by Termtg, Ingot Chewer is a house out of the sideboard. You can't go wrong with any sort of artifact removal, really. Surgical Extraction does suck, but that's actually a reason to keep Faerie Macabre in - you can exile whatever they target to fizzle the Extraction.
Hey Tim, congratulations on your performance in Brisbane, and thanks for taking some time to chat with us! We really appreciate it, man.
Great to hear about your high opinion of Kari Zev's Expertise - I was initially skeptical of its utility outside of casting a Living End from your hand, but it sounds like the occasional Threaten has a lot more uses than I thought!
Yeah, I agree; deck definitely feels heavily tuned to a predicted meta. No Architects of Will, things like Pulse of Murasa in the sideboard, full Fulminators + Avalanche Riders main... playing the long game was definitely the plan here.
It's a sweet build, though. Glad he top 8'd.
I think you'll fool your local meta exactly once. Kind of a funny idea, but not one I would investigate as a solution. The biggest question to answer is: does Balance do well against strategies that Living End struggles against?
Yes, you're right. I shouldn't have implied that beating ramp is as easy as casting Armageddon - you've gotta be smart about it. And that's the most challenging part.
I'm sure "like a gremlin caught in the headlights" is a common colloquialism on Kaladesh.
"But Wyvern, MLD isn't the solution because of how feel-bad it is for the non-ramp players caught in the crossfire."
Please stop. MLD IS a solution; we're just so afraid of offending people that we lie to ourselves and pretend that Keldon Firebombers and Natural Balance are the only ways to halt the ramp menace. I can't remember the last time I 'Geddoned after someone else's Boundless Realms and heard anyone but the ramp player complain.
Personal anecdote: My most common use of MLD is in Karona, False God Enchantress - cycling Decree of Annihilation after I've gone Epic with Enduring Ideal is typically enough to shuffle up for another game. Similar situation to Schutzwald's Mogis deck up there.
It's almost like they knew we were desperate for a good card out of this cycle, and decided to make it "cmc 2 or less" just to piss us off. lol
This is basically like the time we all convinced ourselves that Bloodbraid Elf was worth playing as an "extra cascade spell but it's okay if it hits Fulminator Mage or Beast Within because those are still good too, guys."
I snorted Gatorade up my nose, thanks for that.