I've looked at D&T, it definitely fits in my budget but seems a bit underpowered. UR Storm seems like a good candidate though, all of the spells cost less than 20 tix, the issue is that the dual lands are kind of expensive (especially Steam Vents) so I would have to downgrade the manabase somewhat to stay in budget.
I have 50 tix on MTGO I can spend on a Modern deck. Is there anything Tier 1 in this price range or am I just being unrealistic trying to get into Modern on such a small budget? I'm willing to play just about anything, but I want it to be competitive.
Honestly, because there's no sac outlet for the creature. Act of Treason is simply there to use a titan for a turn. Giving it a counter could wind up hurting more than helping, although conceivably either would do just fine in that role.
My reasoning is that it's likely more important for you to deal one extra damage with their titan than it is for them to deal one extra damage to you on the backswing (if they're still alive to attack you with it again) regardless of whether or not you have a sac outlet.
Well B.o.Ps solved the mana issue and personally I like the.oozes in the.deck they give us an alt win con if they kill the welders. Just need to find the right card to make it win. I used gigantomancer and.a bunch of flyers like bops and.ornichoppers
I'll give it a shot. I like the fact that Necrotic Ooze can become Fauna Shaman #5-8 and it also does very well with Molten Tail Masticore's abilities (regeneration and shooting for 4 damage).
I'd also like to encourage more people to test this deck and post results, it is surprisingly consistent when played correctly. I've played a number of janky combo decks in the past and this one is actually quite good mostly because your opponents will not know how to correctly play against you.
How about hexmages to deal with pwalks or revokers.
Easily fetchable
Unfortunately the mana base cannot usually produce BB for Vampire Hexmage.
Phyrexian Revoker might be good though since it's an answer to Jace, bounce your Myr Welder, which is not very good for this deck.
There are actually surprisingly few things that can deal with Myr Welder at instant speed (and thus really hurt your combo), I could only think of Doom Blade, Into the Roil, and Consume the Meek, as possible playable main deck cards that would disrupt you mid-combo (and thus exile the combo pieces). Sure Myr Welder can be killed by a whole slew of other things at sorcery speed, but that just means that I will go get it again with Grim Discovery or fetch another one with Fauna Shaman. That's the thing I really like about this deck, once the combo pieces are in the graveyard the deck will eventually win.
Here's my version of this, based on atrius89's last list. I've tested a few games with it and it's been pretty consistent considering the nature of the deck. The black splash for Grim Discovery is very good and Fauna Shaman is amazing. The sideboard is completely theoretical since everyone I play against on MWS tends to quit after the first game when I either blow up all their permanents with Lux Cannon or shoot them 5 times with Molten-Tail Masticore. If I were to change anything it would probably be to take out the Birds of Paradise and/or Preordain for some main deck Spell Pierce. Give it a shot it's a lot of fun to play. Advice/suggestions would also be very helpful, especially for the sideboard.
It has a lot of the same elements as some of the lists discussed in this thread. Reading through the article he says he tried to build an Esper version but found the manabase to be unreliable. He also mentions that the Squadron Hawks were not very good.
@Guru- I run a list very similar to yours. A few questions if you don't mind.
- How has the two preordains worked out for you? I've considered doing the same.
- Why not a 3/3 split for doom blade and GFtT? Just a meta call I suspect...
- I would think JTMS would work well with the two preordains. Is it budget reasons or have you found him out of place?
@Meow-Go Community - Has anyone tested Black Sun's Zenith? With all the card draw I would think we could benefit from it's recursion over DoJ.
Thanks, just trying to pick your brains a bit.
- Preordain is basically a slightly weaker Jace's Ingenuity in terms of digging through your deck for answers and it's a great turn 1 play since my list has very little reason not to tap out on turn 1 since I don't run Spell Pierce. It will usually replace itself with a more relevant spell (or land) at the cost of one mana.
- Hadn't really thought about this, I guess it's really a meta call of whether you plan on encountering more decks with black creatures (Vampires, UB control) or decks with artifact creatures (Tezzeret decks and some of the swarm aggro decks with Memnites and Ornithopters, Precursor Golem is also gaining popularity because of GFtT)
- I'm seriously contemplating adding JTMS to my list even though it violates the no permanents rule. The deck is a bit short on win conditions and JTMS provides that and so much more, not to mention he combos well with Preordain and Marsh Flats.
As for the Jace Beleren discussion, I can see him being a sideboard card against control but probably no more than that. I don't think he adds enough value to be worth tapping out for.
Here's my list, it's largely untested but it has most of the cards I want in this deck. I think it's just a matter of tweaking the exact numbers. The only card I would consider adding in some quantity is Spell Pierce and I might remove the Memoricides in the sideboard.
Just a minor nitpick: while usually this is correct, there are some instances where countering "miniscule" plays early in the game is the right move. If your opponent goes into the tank about keeping his hand, or mulligans and seems reluctant to keep, it may be a good idea to Spell Pierce his Preordain if you have another early game counter in hand. In these instances Pierce acts like a mini-Inquisition of Kozilek, turning a barely-keepable hand into an absolutely abyssmal one.
Its basically how Brad Nelson beat Matignon in Paris during the last round.
This is absolutely true and is something I neglected to think about (mostly because my list doesn't include Spell Pierce so it never came up while testing).
I tested a bit against the UW Caw-Blade matchup and decided that definitely it's worth having 2-3 Divine Offering in the sideboard for it. I was playing an Esper list with preordain/inquisition, DoJ, no spell pierce, and no permanents. Here's an analysis of their threats.
Squadron Hawk - not a threat unless it's holding a sword, usually you just take the damage. If it is holding a sword you can use spot removal or stick a colonnade in front of it
Stoneforge Mystic - always counter this if you can to prevent them from fetching a sword, otherwise treat like a squadron hawk in combat
Big Jace - counter it if you can (to deny them extra cards), otherwise Creeping Tar Pit does a fine job of keeping it in control, be wary of his ult, and be wary of Gideon in combination with Jace since that is deadly
Gideon - usually not worth countering unless there is already a Jace on the board, he dies to every spot removal spell in the deck (and they don't have many other targets for those spells so you will probably have one in hand). If they don't attack with it and just repeatedly +2 it, you can just send a man land at it every turn to keep it in check.
SoBaM/SoFaF - these are the real threats in this deck. Do your best to keep these off the board (inquisition for it, counter their mystics, etc...). However, if it does find its way onto the board it is very hard to get rid of unless you have divine offering (hence why I recommend a few in the sideboard). They also have a million things they can equip it to (hawks, mystics, manlands, gideon) so repeatedly using spot removal on their sword-carriers will only buy you a few turns at most.
Other notes:
- Always leave counterspell mana up when casting WSZ
- Don't bother countering preordain
Since the initial Squadron Hawk is essentially a 4 for 1, trading 1 for 1 with each is definitely not ideal. Although, I have to say that baiting them to play a creature only for them to then try to equip it 3 or 4 times in a row unsuccessfully isn't that bad, since they are wasting their turns doing it over and over. The problem is that if they are successful in equipping and swinging with the Sword even one time all of their failed attempts don't matter as much. They just gain such an enormous advantage after each swing from that point on.
In my particular match with Caw-Blade at the last FNM, in Game 1 I had a hand that was very heavy in removal and it certainly helped me survive into the late game, but I set myself so far behind on cards in the process that I just didn't stand a chance. In this case he played a single Mystic and a single Hawk and I had to use five spells to deal with the aftermath of that, which is just devastating to a deck like this. Not to mention Condemn is horrible vs. Squadron Hawk (unless its the last one). Dealing with the Sword directly is definitely the best way to approach this deck.
The Captain was in my sideboard as a 4-of during the last FNM and, with the help of Ratchet Bomb, it has turned Kuldotha from this deck's worst nightmare into a mere speed bump on the road to victory. I will personally never cut it as long as Kuldotha continues to rear its ugly head in my meta.
Divine Offering wasn't in my sideboard at all during the last FNM, but I can't tell you how much I wish it was. By no means will it crush Caw-Blade in the same way Captain and Ratchet Bomb crush Kuldotha, but being able to deal with that damn Sword directly makes their deck a lot less threatening.
There are also some other changes I have made to deal with the changing meta, especially Caw-Blade. While my old Esper build was an absolute power house after turn 3, it often struggled to stabilize if the first 3 turns were rough. There are two cards in particular that have already been brought up by others, which do a great job at helping to galvanize our early game. I have finally given in to the fact that Spell Pierce and Inquisition are great in this deck, even though they corrupt my philosophy of having every card be of equal value throughout the game (assuming you have mana to play them). But that's fine, because in order for every deck to survive it has to change and adapt to everything around it, which I think this deck is great at doing.
Anyways, here's my new take on Esper (I haven't tested it at all, so let me know what you think):
I like the move from Drowned Catacomb -> Darkslick Shore since blue/black are the colors you mostly need early in the game (Preordain, Inquisition, Spell Pierce, Mana Leak), but I would probably play Glacial Fortress over Seachrome Coast, or just play more basic lands.
I also think that DoJ needs to be in this list at least as a 2-of, not sure what to cut for it though.
Any other suggestions?
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Currently testing:
Myr Welder Combo
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Meow-Go
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Tier 1 decks:
I have a pretty extensive collection of T1 decks, I prefer playing my brew decks though
My reasoning is that it's likely more important for you to deal one extra damage with their titan than it is for them to deal one extra damage to you on the backswing (if they're still alive to attack you with it again) regardless of whether or not you have a sac outlet.
Something like this?
I'll give it a shot. I like the fact that Necrotic Ooze can become Fauna Shaman #5-8 and it also does very well with Molten Tail Masticore's abilities (regeneration and shooting for 4 damage).
I'd also like to encourage more people to test this deck and post results, it is surprisingly consistent when played correctly. I've played a number of janky combo decks in the past and this one is actually quite good mostly because your opponents will not know how to correctly play against you.
Unfortunately the mana base cannot usually produce BB for Vampire Hexmage.
Phyrexian Revoker might be good though since it's an answer to Jace, bounce your Myr Welder, which is not very good for this deck.
There are actually surprisingly few things that can deal with Myr Welder at instant speed (and thus really hurt your combo), I could only think of Doom Blade, Into the Roil, and Consume the Meek, as possible playable main deck cards that would disrupt you mid-combo (and thus exile the combo pieces). Sure Myr Welder can be killed by a whole slew of other things at sorcery speed, but that just means that I will go get it again with Grim Discovery or fetch another one with Fauna Shaman. That's the thing I really like about this deck, once the combo pieces are in the graveyard the deck will eventually win.
More about their deck in this article, http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/ruel-ultimatum-4-days-2-wins-and-the-magic-weekend-part-i/
It has a lot of the same elements as some of the lists discussed in this thread. Reading through the article he says he tried to build an Esper version but found the manabase to be unreliable. He also mentions that the Squadron Hawks were not very good.
- Preordain is basically a slightly weaker Jace's Ingenuity in terms of digging through your deck for answers and it's a great turn 1 play since my list has very little reason not to tap out on turn 1 since I don't run Spell Pierce. It will usually replace itself with a more relevant spell (or land) at the cost of one mana.
- Hadn't really thought about this, I guess it's really a meta call of whether you plan on encountering more decks with black creatures (Vampires, UB control) or decks with artifact creatures (Tezzeret decks and some of the swarm aggro decks with Memnites and Ornithopters, Precursor Golem is also gaining popularity because of GFtT)
- I'm seriously contemplating adding JTMS to my list even though it violates the no permanents rule. The deck is a bit short on win conditions and JTMS provides that and so much more, not to mention he combos well with Preordain and Marsh Flats.
As for the Jace Beleren discussion, I can see him being a sideboard card against control but probably no more than that. I don't think he adds enough value to be worth tapping out for.
2x Preordain
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
Removal – 10
2x Condemn
4x Go for the Throat
2x Doom Blade
2x Day of Judgment
Counters - 12
4x Mana Leak
1x Negate
2x Cancel
3x Stoic Rebuttal
2x Mindbreak Trap
4x Jace’s Ingenuity
3x White Sun’s Zenith
Lands – 26
3x Celestial Colonnade
3x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Glacial Fortress
4x Darkslick Shores
4x Marsh Flats
4x Islands
4x Plains
2x Swamp
4x Perimeter Captain or Ratchet Bomb
3x Divine Offering
2x Memoricide
3x Spreading Seas
1x Doom Blade
1x Condemn
1x Day of Judgment
This is absolutely true and is something I neglected to think about (mostly because my list doesn't include Spell Pierce so it never came up while testing).
I'm still tweaking the list a bit and will post it once I'm more confident in some of the numbers, it's based heavily on Morzanth's list.
Squadron Hawk - not a threat unless it's holding a sword, usually you just take the damage. If it is holding a sword you can use spot removal or stick a colonnade in front of it
Stoneforge Mystic - always counter this if you can to prevent them from fetching a sword, otherwise treat like a squadron hawk in combat
Big Jace - counter it if you can (to deny them extra cards), otherwise Creeping Tar Pit does a fine job of keeping it in control, be wary of his ult, and be wary of Gideon in combination with Jace since that is deadly
Gideon - usually not worth countering unless there is already a Jace on the board, he dies to every spot removal spell in the deck (and they don't have many other targets for those spells so you will probably have one in hand). If they don't attack with it and just repeatedly +2 it, you can just send a man land at it every turn to keep it in check.
SoBaM/SoFaF - these are the real threats in this deck. Do your best to keep these off the board (inquisition for it, counter their mystics, etc...). However, if it does find its way onto the board it is very hard to get rid of unless you have divine offering (hence why I recommend a few in the sideboard). They also have a million things they can equip it to (hawks, mystics, manlands, gideon) so repeatedly using spot removal on their sword-carriers will only buy you a few turns at most.
Other notes:
- Always leave counterspell mana up when casting WSZ
- Don't bother countering preordain
I like the move from Drowned Catacomb -> Darkslick Shore since blue/black are the colors you mostly need early in the game (Preordain, Inquisition, Spell Pierce, Mana Leak), but I would probably play Glacial Fortress over Seachrome Coast, or just play more basic lands.
I also think that DoJ needs to be in this list at least as a 2-of, not sure what to cut for it though.