MTG Salvation

Hey all, I just wanted to take a small moment and post a tier list of sets for Chaos draft. I scoured through lots of old forum posts here on MTGSalvation to help guide my discussion, so it's only fair that y'all get a chance to see it

Link to article

Thanks all

For those curious, I took the list to GP OKC.
7-2 on Day 1, 2-4 on Day 2 (mostly due to bad play)
You can find all my thoughts of the deck earlier on these threads.

There is one change to the list: the addition of another Shatterstorm. Whether this is acknowledging Lantern control (since that matchup seems really rough) or a nod to affinity, we may never know.

Quote from mrpiddlex »

Hi guys,

Longtime lurker here. Haven't actually built the deck, mostly due to the price of griselbrand on mtgo, and now goryo's vengeance and blood moon in paper - but I digress. I've goldfished on mtgo a lot with this deck, and think the decks at Charlotte were the builds I feel I would be the most comfortable playing. Now that I'm out of the shadows, I want to ask a few people who have played the deck (and may have the pieces needed to test these out):

1. Has anyone tried Myojin of Life's Web? I feel like it is the perfect glue piece for the deck, even if it is 'only' a dumb 8/8 creature. It's green. It's legendary. It can be a secondary Through the Breach. I feel the indestructibility is useless on an already large critter, and it's definitely not an automatic "I win" card, but it might help in consistency.

2. How about combining the shoal version with the loam version? Maybe it's too cute, being that a resolved Borborygmos Enraged might just win the game without the help, but I feel like a possible 4 or 5-color version could be done using Life from the Loam, Raven's Crime, Flame Jab, and fetch lands. Unburial rites could even help. Life loss could be offset by shoals, and raven's crime could provide a much better game vs. counters if urborg is included. I think this deck might be too slow or just simply worse than assault-loam decks - not sure of the general consensus. It just seems like it might be a very powerful and versatile option that hasn't been explored.

3. An Esper build seems like it could be a really sweet pure reanimator deck, honestly. Jin-Gitaxias, Snapcaster Mage, and Unburial Rites become accessible. Obzedat, Iona, The Unspeakable, and Shining Shoal are cute additions that may have merit, but may just not be strong enough. This build would have to play a lot more lands/card draw/discard I think and become basically a control deck with Ideas Unbound and Reach Through Mists being bad Arcane versions of Faithless Looting/Tormenting Voice/Night's Whisper.

Let me know what you guys think. I do not have any experience with actually playing the deck, so feel free to dismiss these if you don't think they have merit.

I'll answer these one at a time.

1) The thing is, you want your creatures to be relevant if you are cheating them into play. Myojin, while Legendary and Green (the two criteria we care about for non-Griselbrand targets) doesn't really do anything. Boom, Take 8 is not good enough.
2) Too cute. The skeleton of the deck requires too many moving parts, and the best card in the board is Blood Moon.
3) Again, the suggestions you make are just... too cute. In addition, one of the major strengths of the deck is the ability to attack from multiple angles, giving us the opportunity to beat a Rest in Piece or other bits of targeted hate.

As someone who actually played the deck for months (read my prior posts on this very forum) I can say that Revival is not that great.
It gets tested in early versions of the list, but it is not good.
Yes, as you are going off, you get back a card. Great. Sometimes that can be very relevant (Getting back Shoal is the most often use, then drawing it with Morphose/Grisel activation.
The other major upside is that you can Revival a card that was thoughtsiezed (Often times, Goryo's Vengeance specifically)

But the rest of the time, it is pretty bad.
Given, in this deck, that slot has been bad no matter what people play. Here's a list of cards that have been tested:
Noxious Revival
Time of Need
Summoner's Pact
Tormenting Voice
Pact of Negation

And others I cannot recall currently. Ultimately, it becomes the first card you cut 90% of the time, since it really is a flex slot.

Congrats to making Top 8, shame Grishoalbrand had to play Ad Nauseam, since I think it is the 2nd worst matchup (only Infect is worse)

You should be a turn faster than Bloom Titan G1.
I'd think of it in the same way as Affinity/Infect. They have their gameplan and we have ours. G1 we have little interaction. Postboard, definitely think about bringing in Abrupt Decays as it is the best card in the matchup.
What specific issue do you have? The pacts? How to play? Helps to know what you need help with

That deck tech was well before I started playing. I'm thiiiiis close to actually building it online and just having a full primer ready. I feel very comfortable with the deck, and honestly can take a tournament, especially with the current metagame.

Rending Volley is beautiful in the matchup. Seriously, having access to Simian Spirit Guide and Rending Volley is quite nice.

That is the list of cards I was looking at for Artifact hate, but I keep finding myself wanting too much. (CMC <4, Instant, Multiple Targets)
I keep finding that I like Abrupt Decay more and more, and Rakdos Charm less and less.

These are names that I've thought of (and were mentioned in the comments) for the Shoal version
Grishoalbrand Vengeance
Wurm Brand Oryo's/Name Brand Oryo's
Tungsten Fins

Hey all! Another week, another one of these tournament reports (if you guys want me to stop, I can. Now I can start to offer some legitimate gameplay tips, tactics and thoughts for individual matchups)
After 4 consecutive tournaments going 3-1, I finally swept the field. That puts my record at 16-4 on this deck. Very very powerful are my same thoughts.
My list for reference:

Round 1: Elfball/Mono-Green Devotion (Garruk Wildspeaker/Nykthos/Genesis Wave etc.)
This is one of those matchups that seem unlosable. They play a (mostly) fair game, with some possible explosive starts (needing Burning-Tree Emissary and Nykthos). With no real interaction G1, it was an easy combo finish. Second game was less clean. They got in a lot of early damage, and a Beast Within on Griselbrand forced only a small set of draws. Luckily, (and you should note this) if you are playing around Path to Exile/Removal, always attack first before drawing cards. Since we do not require the combat step to win, they will almost always use their removal spell then, allowing you to draw cards in response. I set up a TTB on the Wurm for the final points of damage.
1-0
SB:
-1 Time of Need, -1 Manamorphose, +2 Abrupt Decay

Round 2: Time Warp (Oddly enough, the list I had played and streamed for nearly a year)
The best way to think of these rougish matchups is that they are a random control deck. Game one, they tapped out on one turn, and promptly lost. The second game is more typical of these blue matchups post-board. I played draw-go until I could force a Nourishing Shoal at the end of their turn (splicing Goryo's/TTB on it). They had to use most of their countermagic then, and a Duress cleared the way for the original spell to resolve.
SB:
-1 Time of Need, -1 Desperate Ravings -3 Manamorphose, -1 Stomping Ground
+1 Boseiju, +3 Duress, +2 Abrupt Decay (Since I know they rely on Howling Mine effects, this was a critical board in. Not something you normally do against the blue decks)
2-0

Round 3: GR Tron
Ah, the best matchup. By far. I honestly think we are 70-30 or better against them. Game 1 was a super slow hand, but even a T5 combo is good enough. The second game was worse, with him mulliganing to 5 and myself to 4. A turn 1 Duress from my end stripped his only relevant card, but he proceeded to have the god-draw of tron+Karn over 3 turns. Not much else to say. The final game he slammed Leyline of Sanctity on Turn 1. I combo on turn two, draw a bunch of cards, and leave myself with a Through the Breach with Worldspine Wurm to finish him off the following turn. (Well before any chance of Ugin as well)
3-0
SB: Game 2: -1 Time of Need, -1 Deperate Ravings, +2 Duress, Game 3: Back to main 60

Round 4: Bogles
Another easy matchup if they do not provide early pressure. T2 and T3 combo kills in the two games. Only catch was to play around the Path to Exile he left up.
4-0

SB: Nothing Maybe it is correct to play Decays, but the list just seemed super smooth.

Again, seriously debating making the trip for the Modern GP. I think this is the list with only SB changes to make. I think there needs to be some number of Blood Moons/Chalice of the Voids/Better Artifact hate. That's what I am fiddling with now.

Hey all. Another week, another 3-1 (I can't seem to climb that hurdle Sooner or later)

Here's the report (took a while to add this due to finals, but whatevs)

Round 1: Battle of Wits
Game 1: A really epic game when I force him to make the choices he doesn't want to do. I greedily force a TTB on a Wurm when he Mystical Teachings for Gifts Ungiven. Attack to put him to 3, so I force him to get Unburial Rites/Elesh Norn rather than Iona. Then I Goryo's a Griselbrand for the win (flying OP). Game 2, he casts Wargate for 1 after I cast Faithless Looting. I assume he is going to get Grafdigger's Cage, so I have to respond with the Vengeance on Grisel. But I dun goofed. (Didn't draw 7 cards and he gets Pithing Needle) This one was completely on me. Lost because of it. Game 3: The T2 kill on the play (Faithless into Goryo's). Was beautiful to do it into his T1 elf.
1-0

Round 2: Dredge Midrange (Knight of the Reliquary/Lotleth Troll, 0 Bloodghast + Unburial Rites package)
Super easy matchup. They have 0 interaction barring Path. Easy to play around. Not really much to say, it plays like solitare.
2-0

Round 3: Infect
Jeez. This is a match. It literally feels like a giant arms race (given, since I don't have Spellskites in the board yet, it becomes a giant race to see who kills who first). Literally, I T2 him the first game, he T2s me the second, and I T2 him the third.
Oddly enough, this was the GR Tron player who was still on tilt from the prior week and thought he would just crush me.
I feel that this matchup is REALLY hard if you don't draw a fast kill. Gotta play it more to learn some better insights I could mention.
3-0

Round 4: Affinity
This is probably your worst matchup. A fast deck that gets to punish you with Dispatch/Spell Pierce postboard. The first game he spewed his entire hard + Ravager on T1. I kept a slower hand going in blind and just lost. Game two I properly played around Dispatch + Spell Pierce + Galvanic Blast with his 3 open mana and 3 cards in his hand. Turns out he had all 3, so it was good. (Notes: Playing around each depends on the scenario. Dispatch is like Path, so attack or force him to cast before drawing. Playing around blast means to watch your life total reaaaaalllllyyyy carefully. I baited the Pierce with Spirit Guides.) The final game he again was super fast and I couldn't recover.
3-1

Hope this helps a little bit. I am a little too tired to make any meaningful comments. Maybe another time
Woo lazy ending!

Hey all. Another week, another 3-1 in a local Modern event at my LGS.
Here’s a summary of the event and the list I ran with my thoughts.

Since I am lazy and an engineer I use plenty of abbreviations in my writeup. Sorry
Round 1 RG Tron: This matchup seems complete unlosable as long as they do not resolve a T3 Karn with no response from us. Game one he was mana-screwed, and a TTB Worldspine Wurm ended the game quickly. G2 he attempts to cast a T4 Sundering Titan, and in response I TTB Griselbrand and combo him out.
SB:
-2 Manamorphose, -1 Tormenting Voice
+3 Duress
1-0
Round 2 Angel’s Grace/Ad Nauseam: Now this is a fun match. We both combo at instant speed but they often have Angel’s Grace to protect themselves from our combo. G1 I use Goryo’s Vengeance on Borborygmos just to ensure I get to play my third land to be able to TTB a Worldspine Wurm on the following turn. G2 I go for the combo, expecting for him to have Angel’s Grace. I put him to 1 life, and filter through my deck do that after cleanup I have 3x Goryo’s, TTB, Land, Worldspine Wurm, TTB, so I can set up pressure every turn and run him out of Angel’s Grace’s to beat him.
SB: (I expected him to remove his Lightning Storm and play to a different wincon. Perhaps Leylines are better in this matchup. I’ve contemplated this a bit too much)
SB:
-2 Manamorphose, -1 Tormenting Voice
+3 Duress
2-0
Round 3 Battle of Wits: Very close games. G1 I just TTB a Wurm and he has no answer. G2 I put him to 1 after a Borborygmos attack and fail to finish him off. G3 I kept the following:
Simian Spirit Guide, Simian Spirit Guide, Land, Through the Breach, Griselbrand, Worldspine Wurm
Drew two lands and planned to beat him. Put in Worldspine Wurm and attack. He draws Detention Sphere and wrecks me. I still debate whether it was correct or not. Often times with this list if you use the SSGs early, it makes it hard to finish the combo-kill, so there was a lot of internal debate about what to cheat in. Ultimately, I got punished for it.
SB: (Note, I plan on adding Blood Moon to the board for this matchup. Seems very powerful against these types of decks)
-2 Manamorphose, -1 Tormenting Voice
+3 Duress
2-1
Round 4 Jund/Abzan mix: Not particularly close games. He attempts to disrupt me but doesn’t know what to take. (Thoughtsieze takes Griselbrand, IoK takes manamorphose). I just TTB a Worldspine Wurm and kill him. G2 I kept a good hand against him if I draw lands:
Land, Through the Breach, Through the Breach, Goryo’s Vengeance, Night’s Whisper, Night’s Whisper
This is the type of hand you almost always snap-keep. (Moreso if you have 2 lands and 1 Whisper). The cheat spells are always more powerful than the fatties, and having repetition is really powerful. Ultimately, he attempts to disrupt my hand, but I hit the second land drop and proceed to just combo him out when he only has B open.
SB:
-2 Manamorphose, -1 Tormenting Voice
+3 Leyline of Sanctity
3-1

Eventually I will get around to building this on MTGO and streaming it.

Hey all. Been doing nothing but fiddling with this list for a month now.
Finally completed it so I took it to FNM after goldfishing for a while. Here's my tournament report:
Round 1: Soul Sisters

• Game 1: I cast 3x Night's Whisper, 2x Tormenting Voice, and 2x Faithless Looting searching desperately for a cheat-into-play spell. Finally drew one, and after (several) attacks with Worldspine Wurm and subsequent tokens, I won the game.
• Game 2: Keep a sketchy hand with one land, but the T2 kill if I draw another. Bricked on the first draw, but then drew a fetch and proceeded to go full combo
• 1-0

Round 2: Jund Pox

• Game 1: I very, very grindy game in which I draw 0 large threats and have all my copies of Goryo's and TtB discarded. 10 of my last 14 cards in my library were 4x Griseldaddy, 4x Wurm and 2x Borbor.
• Game 2: Combo on T3. Opp scoops after I draw 14 cards.
• Game 3: Another super grindy game. Again do not draw relevant threats. I hold off on casting Faithless Lootings to ensure I keep a Goryo's Vengeance vs. his Lili. Very close matchup.
• 1-1

Round 3: Esper Control

• Game 1: Opp was slow with Lingering Souls and I bait out enough countermagic to eventually Through the Breach (countered), Shoal + Breach EoT (countered), my turn Breach in Wurm GG.
• Game 2: I get to cast a Duress on Turn 2 and see: Dispel, Syncopate, Esper Charm and 3 irrelevant cards. I take the Dispel. He proceeds to make me discard cards, so I discard some duplicate threats. Eventually I cast a Through the Breach appearing as though I was tapped out when he had 2 mana open. He syncs, and I exile a Simian Spirit Guide for the win.
• 2-1

Round 4: Burn

• Game 1: I keep a super greedy hand, but T4 cheat in Wurm and win on 4 life.
• Game 2: I shoaled twice. I don't need to say anymore in this matchup. (Ok, I lied. I played around the Deflecting Palm and Path to Exile he was clearly representing. I hard-cast 2 Simian Spirit Guides as well to block his creatures, since I (correctly) assumed he removed his Searing Blazes.
• 3-1

Overall, still very impressed with the deck. I feel it is powerful enough to steal some games you have no business winning, and any decent set of draws can lead to victory.

My list: (not quite what I want. I have changed one Tormenting Voice for a Time of Need)

I REALLY like the new 'Combust' (Rending Volley)
Shores up the SB even better against twin, I think

Fantastic primer, the original archived thread got me interested, and I have started playing through the deck.
Given, my local meta is 60% burn so I might have been a little biased (Shoal version)

Anyway, I posed the question: for our 'flex' green spell, instead of the Time of Need have Summoner's Pact?

I'd like to hear your thoughts. In testing, I've really liked it.

Thoughts on Summoner's Pact as our green 'draw'?
Yes, no lifegain, but still able to trigger Shoal