MTG Salvation

One other fun route we could have gone with it, is akin to how it was leveraged in 9th edition standard with Kamigawa/Ravnica, where you ran it in a UR shell, with bounce and Land destruction in Stone Rain, and finished with Magnivore, which only needs 4 sorceries in the yard to live through a fire.

This is why I chose this card as I feel it tests how ingenious you can be in breaking the parity of it in the end. In the above deck, who cares about 4 damage and 4 lands, if you're left with a 7/7 and your opponent has no lands.

On a personal note for Wurmcoil, and I like staying hands off so im not going to do anything, I feel its actually a nice fit into a Wildfire deck as it lives through a Wildfire and even if its killed (opponent bolts it in response to a Fire), you're still left with creatures post Fire.

I am an unabashed Johnny/Spike. To me, I like to win with flair commonly found in combo decks. However, as I say that, I also find thrill in breaking an "even card". Think about the quote "Balance is anything but."

By the title of this thread, some of you may of guessed what card I want to build around. For those who haven't, let me introduce you to one of my favorite cards: Wildfire.

So, what do we notice about this card?

• 4 damage to each creature (so we want creatures that dont die to it or if they do, we've already gotten an effect out of it)
• Each Player sacrifices 4 lands (So non-land ways of mana are important.... or maybe we steal an opponents land to break parity)
• Players dont take damage from it (No way will we be able to kill an opponent with this)

Seeing as the type of person I am: No budget, Legacy Ban list, No Stuffy Doll (I like to break the parity other ways.)


That said, please follow the GMaD Rules- explain why you wish to add or remove a card.

I see this problem a lot where shops cancel orders where a card has gone up in price or they do not fulfill preorders so I wanted start a list of sites, ebay stores, etc that do cancel an order for the above reason.

Sites that users have reported as having been known to CANCEL:

• MTGFanatic
• Channelfireball
• Troll and Toad
• GameCorpsOnline
• EVO Games- 1
• The Game Academy Online (ebay user thegameacademyonline)
• www.themagiccardtrader.com- 1 2
• Blu Planet Comics- 1
• MagicandMonsters.com 1
• RubioMagic/Game Heroes:1
• DJMagic Cards:1
• Astral Games 1
• StompingGroundsStore 1
• RancoredElf.com
• Dan Bock 1
• Green Lakes Games 1
• Ebay name: stardustshop
• Magic Bazaar (A weird case, but essentially they sold information of what people purchased. Not a cancel, but it does run afoul of the spirit of Point 4 below)
• Monthly Magic Box 1
• Yiz Games 1
• Ebay Name: Mutant Marvel
• Smedlock

Also, I dug up an article that outlines some things. With MTG growing in popularity, this article is a touch out of date in a sense, but the core thoughts remain true for stores:

Quote from Cancelled! by Kelly Reid »

All's Fair in Love and War

Considering the definitions above, we should probably define our terms of engagement. What's fair game? What isn't? Well, rather than sit here and hammer out the Geneva Convention of Magic Cards, let's apply some common business sense.

Rule 1: If you publish a price, honor the price. This is non-negotiable. If you cannot take the time to proofread your business' website and allow a decimal place in the wrong spot, you are a sloppy businessperson. If you can't keep up on your current prices*, you deserve to lose the money because you didn't do the work to keep it. Mistakes cost money in the real world. While you will not be lambasted for not honoring a $25 Mox Ruby, it shouldn't happen in the first place.

Rule 2: Honor quantities. If you don't want people to order more than X of a card at once, ensure your POS system will not allow this. The following reasons are irrelevant and demonstrate that you are either cheap, ignorant or both: My eCommerce system doesn't allow that. We want to keep stock for local customers. We didn't actually have that many in stock (this one is usually just a bold-faced lie).

Rule 3: The customer's order doesn't need to make sense. Your job is to conduct the transaction in the most efficient way possible, not to ask my why someone just ordered 50 copies of Mortician Beetle. Don't ask, because they're not going to tell. If you don't want their money, then don't make 50 of them available on your site. See Rule 2.

Rule 4: You are disposable. You are a middle-man that conducts a relatively simple "pawn shop" model, which has been around as long as currency has existed. Nothing you do is new, exceptional, revolutionary, or even "good". You are simply a machine to make profit and mark up cards, and as long as you can do this while keeping satesfied the people who Feed the Machine, you may continue doing this. At such a point where you cease to be the most efficient option, you are a dinosaur and should be thrown into a Rocky Tar Pit. This is business, and if someone can get more stuff, cheaper, and more reliably, elsewhere, they will. Don't become angry at your customers for making the reasonable choice. If you don't want a customer's money, there are a hundred other sellers that do.
Many people will read this and consider it unnecessarily harsh, but if you compare a store who abides by these rules to a store that does not, you will quickly see why they matter. The bottom line is that your commercial framework should ensure that no customer can take an action you are not willing to honor. Ever. Non-negotiable.

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/cancelled/comment-page-2/

Also, to perserve what Drifting Skies said: Mod Note: So as not to turn this into a thread of "slander stores you don't like", please try to provide some documentation if you believe that a store should belong on this list.


Also, hello "thepeter" and "childishserpent"

Jivan, isnt collusion and persuading people you arent a threat pretty much what we embody? Why fight with big dumb craw wurms when a Bird, a lovecraftian meets lady gaga monster, a polar bear sphere, a teeter todder and some frozen stuff can leave your opponents unable to move as your scheme comes to fruition. I enjoy making you sit there for 3 hours as I kill you with a mana elf.

Jivan: Have I got the funny thing for you. I T2 Marit Lage and swing (god hand, drew Depths T2 and my opponent exiled the only bounce spell I know he runs, to put under chrome mox). Other friend complains my decks are too competitive. He then proceeds to lock me out of games with Iona. Im fine with Iona, but I smell a lot of hypocracy with him complaining about me being to competitive when he does similar things.

So im building Esper ANT and only using it when he is at the table and only to kill him. Petty? Perhaps. Teach him that I can go much, much, much deeper down that rabbit hole, but I choose to have fun? Yes.

In a funny turn of events, I have confirmation that Jivan is in fact Grumpy Cat in human form based on a picture I acquired. Many Bothan Spies were killed retrieving this data.

Jivan, If you were to whine, what cheese should I get you?

No, not really

Huh.... thought we were below the magic number. Oh well, doors stay open then.

There are more stories coming out of the woodwork and its been an issue for a while (at least July based on the first topic). The only thing now is action. While this may be rude and condescending of me, A man by the name of Kelly Reid once wrote in regards to stores:

Rule 4: You are disposable. You are a middle-man that conducts a relatively simple "pawn shop" model, which has been around as long as currency has existed. Nothing you do is new, exceptional, revolutionary, or even "good". You are simply a machine to make profit and mark up cards, and as long as you can do this while keeping satesfied the people who Feed the Machine, you may continue doing this. At such a point where you cease to be the most efficient option, you are a dinosaur and should be thrown into a Rocky Tar Pit. This is business, and if someone can get more stuff, cheaper, and more reliably, elsewhere, they will.

It took you this long to really be aware of issues. Multiple people have said they sent emails, to little or no response. If they went to a store like CFB, Starcity, or Card Titan, they would of responded with in the hour or at the very least the first chance they got. Right now, it appears as though SGS is the perverbial dinosaur mentioned above. Actions can fix it, and so can people who have issues above saying they were resolved can too.

So ermm... this is a thing I did. It reduces the price of the deck to $28, with the 200 cards costing a max of about $20. Basically I cast Primal Surge and launch into a 9-card combo. (all the deck besides the one Primal Surge are permanents)

I put a full description of the deck up on TappedOut here

For those of you who don't want to leave the site, this spoiler describes the combo, but the formatting isn't great..



I play this deck IRL, although I only play it with people I haven't played the deck with before. It's a really funny combo... but it's a one-trick pony.

Quote from cryogen »

This thread and this forum is for discussion about the cards being spoiled, and discussions and arguments over the flavor of the cards are spam and derail the intent of the thread.

This is a bull***** copout of staggering proportions. By that reasoning, I'd be derailing the Sidar Kondo thread by talking about how it's a cool callback to Mirage and Jamuraa. It's like the mods don't even know the rules to which they're supposed to abide. There's no consistency, just a bunch of "I don't like that, better lock it."

Perfectly fine and valid discussions are often censored or stifled because some mod needed to throw their weight around. We get it, you have authority over a website. We're all very impressed.

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My turn on the saddle guys.

I tried the card. It's not bad, but it's not good, either. Here's why.

In absolute magic terms, 1 mana for a 4/3 is much better than one mana for 4 damage. In limited, the first would be format destroying but the second would still be pretty bad. So let's assume that your opponent is a robot that always chooses 4 damage, even if they're at 4 with a lightning bolt in hand.

Now, the question I want to ask is, how often does the extra point of damage as compared to lava spike make you win games you would have lost with lava spike? Asked differently, how often, were you playing lava spike in the place of VD, would your opponent finish at exactly one life¹? And don't forget, that doesn't mean that your last burn spell that specific game made him go to 0, but your last burn spell you could have ever cast in the game (meaning if you weren't dead the turn after and drew another burn spell that then killed your opponent, VD didn't actually help you) In my experience, this doesn't happen very often. The vast majority of the time I play both with and against burn, the margins are bigger than that. You might say I don't have numbers, but than again I don't think you have detailed statistics on final life totals in burn matchups either.

Next, consider opposite question: how often will the opponent's choice of it being a creature, cost you the game? The most obvious scenario for this, of course, is you're playing against a combo deck, they're at 3 and VD is your last card in hand, they let it stay in play, and then they go off the next turn. In my experience with vexing devil, this happened reasonably often. Not just against combo decks, but also against red white decks that drew Lightning Helix in that spot, or heck, just had any removal spell and eventually killed you because the next turn you happened to draw a land.

This, on the other hand, has happened to me quite a few times playing both with and against the card.

But that's not even the only way VD can bite you. For instance, imagine your specific draw of burn involved either only one creature (say, a goblin guide, but anything will do) and a bunch of spells, or two creatures, including a VD. If your opponent drew two removal spells that game, and had spare mana to cast it, you've effectively discarded a card for no effect when you could have had a lava spike instead. How often will that happen? Not very often, you're right. Most of the time killing it will be at least a small tempo loss. But when it does happen, you've effectively mulliganed to 6 that game, which is absolutely huge. One less card means something like 10 to 15% less win rate.

And there's plenty more scenarios like that where your opponent having the option of giving you a 4/3 will be better for them.

Now, none of them or deal-breakers, individually. The percentage chance of each of these happening is fairly low. But if you're rebutting each of those scenarios individually, you're not seeing the full picture. The important equation is this:


The answer to that question is no, and that's why you shouldn't play VD.

One last thing. You're going to say "But I already play Lava Spike!", which is true. But lava spike isn't exactly Burn's best card, either. In fact it's probably it's worst, with Rift Bolt; you just need it because it's cheap. And so that's probably what you're going to replace with VD. Even if you disagree, there's more cards close to Rift Bolt you could cram in burn that aren't being played right now, like Shard Volley or Bump in the Night. Put another way, I don't think that if they printed a new lava spike with a different name you'd see a lot of it in lists.


1: Or more than that, if you drew more than one devil, but your odds of that are lower than not drawing a devil at all

Y'all might have tanked the global economy because you don't want to deal with immigrants, mate.

List for now


playing the deck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP_n3oKWWAA&feature=youtu.be

From 06 to 09', my playgroup regularly played with those cards, so I have experience with these cards.

One, talk to them with your portion of the group. Find and argue some points that benefit you. None of the legal cards you mentioned, except for Necroptence (Still not on even terms), can even be argued alongside the banned cards you mentioned.

or (From my experience, there are two paths: High and Low)

Low:

Have the players who argue for keeping banned cards banned build decks that better abuse those banned cards. Make sure one of your members wins. Do it, again. Then do it again. Keep doing it until they are frustrated and quit for the day. When the group meets again...for a lack of better words...do it again. Recur, combo out with the same combo three times, flicker and repeat. Keep it up until they do not want to see you. Smother them. It is how Channel and Fastbond were solved. It is how my playgroup solved the Primeval Titan issue before the ban. It is how many issues were solved. I recently solved a problem of a player that was proxying banned cards at a LGS a few months ago. I used those cards and demolished his spirit. If I had to do it again, I would WILL that player down without ill words or reveling gaudiness to solve a problem

High:

State the groups differences and do not play with them. It is not to say it is avoiding a problem, but a difference of ideology and perspective.

Keep brewing.

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I could be convinced to try FF again, I can't do worse than last year, getting thrown out of my money league week 2.