Control at this moment is like trying to play darts but with a blindfold, you are severely handicapped against every deck. There are (once again) no good answers and therefore you need to metagame and pray to whatever it is you believe in that you get decent match ups and draw the right cards. You can not tap out on turn 2 ever since an unanswered History is game. However you need to drop Search for Azcanta because you need the filtering, since you need to draw everything on point to have some sort of chance to win the game. You don't want Lava Coil main deck since it's bad in a lot of matches but you need it against BG. Justice Strike is what we got but it sucks against tokens and Boros Angels. You don't have an catch all answer so you die to sideboard cards like Dawn of Hope and Ajani.. Just max out on cards that are good, probably Teferi, and hope it's enough.
Think I'm mostly struggling against the super fast decks that require nothing but History to resolve.. So that's tokens and RW weenies with Heroic Reinforcements. Revitalise might be OK but it feels like such a bad card..
I have been liking the split in counterspells as with Niv and Explosion Ionize does earn a spot.
Question: How many Deafening Clarion and Cleansing Nova? Been doubting between 3-2 and 4-2.
I've been searching for the best control deck since Guilds release and currently playing Jeskai although I'm not yet sure if this is the best deck that can be made.. My current list:
Still in doubt if the mana will hold up against the more aggressive decks that see play in my area.. Also trying out Radical Idea because I have no clue what else to play.. Perhaps Seal Away is better against Adanto Vanguard which seems to be pretty hard to beat with Jeskai Control.
You could run the 4th Vraska's Contempt. I can't go down from 4. If you're really desperate, and want help vs. Gift, there's Dispossess also. Extreme, but Scrounger is a big problem for us. I lost to it twice Saturday in a PPTQ, despite both players making errors, and me playing very well IMO.
If you want to play NicoB you can always go 2colour with 4 hubs and then Cast NB off the hubs. Wafo Tapa and some others did that at the Pt. Having said that, I actually feel the 2 red sweepers (sweltering suns and hour of devastation) are the best in the format. Specially HoD sine it catches planeswalkes and gets around indestructible, so UR with minimal black might be the control colors
True, have been thinking about that as well but I believe there are some really good spells when you add red. I'm really impressed with Magma Spray lately since my LGS is running a ton of Earthshaker Khenra. Rebuild the list to:
Based on this, I'd put in the two Essence Scatter, 4 Moments, and 1 Contempt. Bontu's is there more for the really go wide decks. Take out 1 Tetz, 2 Search, 2 Lili, 1 Chupa, 1 Disallow.
For Manu, yes, I think Aetherborn is a better choice than Poisoner. Maybe go 3 Aetherborn, 2 Siphoner, if aggro is that much of a problem. If generic creature based decks come back, then Poisoner may be better. Not sure yet. Sweepers aren't efficient right now, so I wouldn't worry about that (Bontu's means you tap out, and potentially can't answer a later threat), and the deck is now more focussed on countering by killing, so let the threat land (unless you can't kill it), then destroy with Chupa, Craving, etc.
Really cool list! Liliana, Death's Majesty is one of my favourite cards in Standard and nice to see her getting some more play now. I've got a Nicol Bolas, God Pharaoh in my binder that I've been dying to play so I want to try Grixis Control first although I love the consistency you get from the UB builds.. Hard times choosing..
Saw this list online (credit to Nicholas Ailes) that looks really cool:
Want to try that although I don't like the 3rd Search for Azcanta, the Consign and the 3rd Supreme Will. Also no Disallow seems weird.. Any tips on how to change this list would be appreciated
I switched the Gifted Aetherborn for Glint-Sleeve Siphoner to get some draw and fix the mana with Aether Hub. We played four rounds, ended up going 3-1 with the loss due to getting stuck on 2 lands both games against GW Cats. Beat UR Pirates, BG Constrictor and RW Aggro. The deck performed very well and even fought through a Crook of Condemnation game 2 against BG Constrictor.
I really like the World Shaper, it's surprisingly good. Glint-Sleeve Siphoner didn't do much, the energy was mostly used for fixing the mana. It's a decent early play though, not sure what to replace it with.
The small 'combo' of reanimating Razaketh with Liliana, Death's Majesty and using the zombie of the plus ability next turn or if you have mana up saccing another creature to find the Journey to Eternity and flip it straight away with the ability of Razaketh, the Foulblooded gave me a lot of redundancy, not needing Liliana anymore so giving more protection against burn spells and Vraska's Contempt.
Thinking about changes that would be good but going to try the same list next week to see if this was a lucky week
The more I think about it, the less I like Hostage Taker, they do however get better when playing World Shaper as you are more likely to ramp and therefore cast the thing you take hostage. I still believe The Scarab God deserves to be in the deck, it can win games on it's own if unanswered and draws a lot of attention from our other game plan. I have been drifting more towards a base black/green shell with maindeck Jadelight Ranger and a singleton Thrashing Brontodon.
I would also like to keep Yahenni's Expertise in the deck as a way to combat go wide tokens and merfolk as well as fill up our yard to get the reanimation going.
--EDIT--
I might try Journey to Eternity as a singleton for lategame insurance to tutor it up with Razaketh when needed. I can't find the proper configuration with Liliana and Scarab God and I think those are better at this moment.. Cracking my brain over the best configuration..
New build, probably need to adjust the manabase but only have two Botanical Sanctum available.
Might be a stupid question, but do you think this deck is viable without The Scarab God? I still have all those UR Control staples and those 4 Torrential Gearhulks are sad I can't find them a new home. Seems that UB is the only viable place for them now. But honestly there's no way I'm bying pushed God mythics to only play standard for maybe a few months.
I think you can do fine without The Scarab God, especially now that standard is wide open. If graveyard decks become the thing to beat, the amount of hate goes up so cards like The Scarab God lose out in control decks. If creature decks remain super strong, a deck with the card will be better.. If you don't have them I think I would wait to see how the meta settles before even considering buying them.
Interesting take, I've been thinking about the Dusk Legion Zealot as well over the Glint-Sleeve Siphoner. With Demon of Dark Schemes at the top end it makes more sense since you have some extra energy regeneration on the field but I don't really see the Siphoners surviving combat to generate the needed energy and get the card draw..
Banewhip Punisher doesn't seem very impressive to me but it might actually be good.. Do you have a decklist for us yapiti?
Looks like a cool deck to play! I'm wondering, if you are playing Grixis, why not make room for 1-2 Cut//Ribbons? This gives you a good option to win the game with the Aftermath once you flip the Azor's Gateway. Also still a fan of The Scarab God and I think a singleton Tetzimoc, Primal Death would be good over a Gearhulk.
I see it more as an extra value card that as a 2-off is not really build around. I believe there are only 2-3 playable exile effects in standard now so I don't think the blow out is that big once you find an opening to play it.
I do agree that a sacrifice outlet would be really great, I also really want a Reclamation Sage effect for the deck..
I'm doubting if Siphoner is good enough in the deck without additional energy.. Tomb Robber might be good instead? Or change them for Kitesail Freebooter?
Once I have some games down I want to look at Jadelight Ranger for sure. See how the mana holds up, if evolving wilds is needed, etc. I also considered the ramunap excavator as well.
I'm not sold on Razaketh. If there are a bunch of silver bullet cards needed for a really diverse meta I can see that being really important. But I like this list to start for testing and see how the new decks develop that we need to be able to beat.
With plummet back in the format, green can just eat big fliers easily now. Maybe I'm overvaluing the card tho.
I have been liking the split in counterspells as with Niv and Explosion Ionize does earn a spot.
Question: How many Deafening Clarion and Cleansing Nova? Been doubting between 3-2 and 4-2.
2 Niv-Mizzet, Parun
Planeswalkers
1 Ral, Izzet Viceroy
3 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Spells
2 Syncopate
2 Blink of an Eye
2 Essence Scatter
3 Justice Strike
2 Radical Idea
3 Deafening Clarion
2 Ionize
2 Sinister Sabotage
4 Chemister's Insight
2 Cleansing Nova
2 Expansion // Explosion
2 Search for Azcanta
Lands
3 Clifftop Retreat
1 Field of Ruin
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Island
2 Mountain
1 Plains
Still in doubt if the mana will hold up against the more aggressive decks that see play in my area.. Also trying out Radical Idea because I have no clue what else to play.. Perhaps Seal Away is better against Adanto Vanguard which seems to be pretty hard to beat with Jeskai Control.
If you have any tips they are more than welcome
That's why I switched to Grixis Control, Magma Spray is a really good and clean answer to Scrapheap Scrounger and it hits most of the played explore creatures, Earthshaker Khenra and Champion of Wits. I was playing 2 main with 4 Harnessed Lightning but I'm now running a 3-3 split.
True, have been thinking about that as well but I believe there are some really good spells when you add red. I'm really impressed with Magma Spray lately since my LGS is running a ton of Earthshaker Khenra. Rebuild the list to:
2 The Scarab God
3 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalkers
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
Enchantments
2 Search for Azcanta
Spells
3 Fatal Push
2 Magma Spray
2 Abrade
3 Censor
2 Essence Scatter
4 Harnessed Lightning
3 Disallow
1 Supreme Will
1 Sweltering Suns
3 Glimmer of Genius
2 Vraska's Contempt
1 Hour of Devastation
4 Aether Hub
2 Canyon Slough
2 Dragonskull Summit
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Fetid Pools
3 Island
2 Mountain
4 Spirebluff Canal
1 Swamp
Really cool list! Liliana, Death's Majesty is one of my favourite cards in Standard and nice to see her getting some more play now. I've got a Nicol Bolas, God Pharaoh in my binder that I've been dying to play so I want to try Grixis Control first although I love the consistency you get from the UB builds.. Hard times choosing..
Saw this list online (credit to Nicholas Ailes) that looks really cool:
2 The Scarab God
3 Torrential Gearhulk
Planeswalkers
1 Liliana, Death's Majesty
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
Enchantments
3 Search for Azcanta
Spells
2 Abrade
2 Consign // Oblivion
2 Cut // Ribbons
1 Essence Scatter
4 Fatal Push
3 Glimmer of Genius
2 Harnessed Lightning
3 Supreme Will
1 Sweltering Suns
3 Vraska's Contempt
1 Aether Hub
2 Canyon Slough
2 Dragonskull Summit
3 Drowned Catacomb
2 Evolving Wilds
3 Fetid Pools
2 Field of Ruin
1 Hour of Devastation
3 Island
3 Mountain
4 Spirebluff Canal
1 Swamp
1 Abrade
2 Chandra's Defeat
2 Duress
2 Glorybringer
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
1 Metallurgic Summonings
2 Moment of Craving
3 Negate
1 River's Rebuke
Want to try that although I don't like the 3rd Search for Azcanta, the Consign and the 3rd Supreme Will. Also no Disallow seems weird.. Any tips on how to change this list would be appreciated
3 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Champion of Wits
3 Jadelight Ranger
1 Hostage Taker
2 Ravenous Chupacabra
2 World Shaper
1 The Scarab God
2 Noxious Gearhulk
2 Razaketh, the Foulblooded
Spells:16
4 Fatal Push
1 Search for Azcanta
3 Strategic Planning
1 Journey to Eternity
2 Vraska's Contempt
2 Yahenni's Expertise
3 Liliana, Death's Majesty
4 Aether Hub
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Botanical Sanctum
2 Drowned Catacomb
4 Fetid Pools
4 Forest
1 Island
3 Swamp
2 Kitesail Freebooter
2 Thrashing Brontodon
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
3 Duress
2 Crook of Condemnation
2 Negate
1 Nissa, Steward of Elements
1 Lost Legacy
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
I switched the Gifted Aetherborn for Glint-Sleeve Siphoner to get some draw and fix the mana with Aether Hub. We played four rounds, ended up going 3-1 with the loss due to getting stuck on 2 lands both games against GW Cats. Beat UR Pirates, BG Constrictor and RW Aggro. The deck performed very well and even fought through a Crook of Condemnation game 2 against BG Constrictor.
I really like the World Shaper, it's surprisingly good. Glint-Sleeve Siphoner didn't do much, the energy was mostly used for fixing the mana. It's a decent early play though, not sure what to replace it with.
The small 'combo' of reanimating Razaketh with Liliana, Death's Majesty and using the zombie of the plus ability next turn or if you have mana up saccing another creature to find the Journey to Eternity and flip it straight away with the ability of Razaketh, the Foulblooded gave me a lot of redundancy, not needing Liliana anymore so giving more protection against burn spells and Vraska's Contempt.
Thinking about changes that would be good but going to try the same list next week to see if this was a lucky week
I would also like to keep Yahenni's Expertise in the deck as a way to combat go wide tokens and merfolk as well as fill up our yard to get the reanimation going.
--EDIT--
I might try Journey to Eternity as a singleton for lategame insurance to tutor it up with Razaketh when needed. I can't find the proper configuration with Liliana and Scarab God and I think those are better at this moment.. Cracking my brain over the best configuration..
New build, probably need to adjust the manabase but only have two Botanical Sanctum available.
3 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Champion of Wits
3 Jadelight Ranger
1 Hostage Taker
2 Ravenous Chupacabra
2 World Shaper
2 The Scarab God
2 Noxious Gearhulk
2 Razaketh, the Foulblooded
4 Fatal Push
4 Strategic Planning
1 Journey to Eternity
2 Vraska's Contempt
2 Yahenni's Expertise
3 Liliana, Death's Majesty
Lands:23
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Botanical Sanctum
4 Drowned Catacomb
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Fetid Pools
2 Forest
2 Island
3 Swamp
I think you can do fine without The Scarab God, especially now that standard is wide open. If graveyard decks become the thing to beat, the amount of hate goes up so cards like The Scarab God lose out in control decks. If creature decks remain super strong, a deck with the card will be better.. If you don't have them I think I would wait to see how the meta settles before even considering buying them.
I've been looking at Tetzimoc, Primal Death as a nice addition to Torrential Gearhulk. During the small amount of matches I played it really took opponents of their game plan as they were not keen to play their good creatures into a Tetzimoc, Primal Death. Using Gifted Aetherborn or Dire Fleet Poisoner to hold down the fort while building for the late game.
Interesting take, I've been thinking about the Dusk Legion Zealot as well over the Glint-Sleeve Siphoner. With Demon of Dark Schemes at the top end it makes more sense since you have some extra energy regeneration on the field but I don't really see the Siphoners surviving combat to generate the needed energy and get the card draw..
Banewhip Punisher doesn't seem very impressive to me but it might actually be good.. Do you have a decklist for us yapiti?
I do agree that a sacrifice outlet would be really great, I also really want a Reclamation Sage effect for the deck..
EDIT: Had not considered Baffling End next to Magma Spray, Cast Out and Vraska's Contempt..
3 Gifted Aetherborn
3 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Champion of Wits
2 Hostage Taker
2 Ravenous Chupacabra
2 World Shaper
2 The Scarab God
2 Noxious Gearhulk
2 Razaketh, The Foulblooded
4 Fatal Push
4 Chart a Course
2 Journey to Eternity
2 Vraska's Contempt
2 Yahenni's Expertise
2 Liliana, Death's Majesty
Land
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Botanical Sanctum
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Fetid Pools
4 Drowned Catacombs
2 Forest
2 Island
3 Swamp
I'm doubting if Siphoner is good enough in the deck without additional energy.. Tomb Robber might be good instead? Or change them for Kitesail Freebooter?
So if you're already splashing for green, wouldn't Journey to Eternity be an option over Supreme Will? Also Chart a Course or Strategic Planning?