Actually this thread is about you vs the forum. Make an argument people don't agree with, and rather than having your say and the forum debate the topic, you've made it a jihad to convince everyone that blue is taking over the format. I really don't think you're convincing anyone and the fear mongering you're trying to generate is getting old and would only work on children.
In fact I would argue that for the standard format Green has gotten the most love. ie Cards that bends the rules of magic. It has the most tutors, (Green's Sun's Zenith), Birthingpod, the best Titan land tutor, 2 new planeswalkers, both with tutoring ability, one with card drawing, both with the ability to protect themselves through token generation, mana generation advantages. Ability to cheat out more mana. Eldrazi aren't playable unless you're playing green.
I don't expect you to have read 10 pages of debating, but a good chunk of that was people agreeing that blue does, indeed, get the best cards. Also, I never said anything about blue "taking over the format." I'm not talking about standard.
So...it's ok for you to complain about something, but it's not ok for others to? I find this especially funny because your complaining is completely baseless, while people complaining about whiners have pretty good reason to. It's cute that you effectively started this thread with "if you don't agree with me, don't post". I think you missed the point of a forum.
As for the card in question...I guess I'm missing how this breaks anything. It's a variant Call to Mind. It's not like you can flash back that Force of Will on turn 2 or something. It's solid, but nothing special. In fact, I'd possibly rank it as the 2nd or 3rd best 2-mana blue creature from this set, in competition with Mindshrieker and Test Subject. (For Standard anyway)
My complaining is baseless? This thread is about blue getting all of the best cards, and I have a legitimate point. If you don't think Snapcaster is going to have any effect on any format, be my guest and give me a reason why. This thread wasn't even really about this particular card, it was about blue in general getting all of the best cards.
Don't waste my time by telling me how I should or shouldn't complain. The point of a debate isn't to argue about how people argue, it's to refute their arguments. Coming into the thread and saying "OP IS WHINING OP IS WHINING" isn't the least bit productive. If you're having such a hard time understanding that, move on.
The problem seems to be that everyone is listing all of these faulty arguments. Stuff like "there's no mono-blue deck in standard, therefore blue is weak." Or "all of the top decks have used red, therefore blue is weak." Seriously, stop joking around. Name a non-blue card that has been spoiled in ISD that will make a bigger impact on all the formats than Snapcaster.
The hellkite does not do damage the second combat phase. Maze of Ith's ability affects combat damage done for the entire turn, which includes the second combat phase of that turn.
Your ego doesn't make you any less wrong about all the correct points people bring up. And it's laughable that you think that people are getting off topic when they're just responding to you saying such retarded things like 'this is mini Yawgmoth's Will'.
Why do you even post on MTG Salvation if you don't want an argument? If you're done talking about it then an honest suggestion is play Yu-Gi-Oh, it's an aggressive metagame and control is underrepresented. And if you don't like it then email Wizards, not me in a raging PM.
I don't mind an argument, but I mind people *****ing about my whining. If you want to make a counterargument, make a valid point. My "ego" might not make me less wrong, but it sure as hell doesn't make any arguments more correct.
Are you even addressing the right person? I never said that this "is a mini Yawgmoth's Will," although whoever did say that has a point. And.. I didn't PM you? It sounds like you have the wrong person. LOL.
This includes your own. The guide values cards a little high, but it shouldn't matter if you're only trading cards for cards. If you're trading for cash, use another source.
Anything on that list should be memorized. Anything not on that list is worth less than a dollar. You don't have to memorize the *entire* list, just the cards from the sets you're trading in.
QQ much. Blue has been weak for a while believe it or not. The last good blue deck was faeries. Before you say QQ JTMS, that was one card. The was a white deck that splashed blue for what, JTMS and preordain? Thats not a blue deck dude. Just think this way: over recent sets blue has had maybe 3 cards that were played heavily. White had 6-8. Green had 10-12. Red had 15-16. Just think of that next time you break out the tissues.
Yes, because this thread is about how mono-blue decks singlehandedly dominate standard. Your reading comprehension skills are impressive!
First of all, if you don't want to see whining, don't read, don't post, and gtfo of this thread.
Combo is the most powerful thing in Magic. Blue has had three mono-U combos in the History of Magic that were actually worth playing. 3. Red and Black have far more than that.
There is no best deck in Legacy. Anyone that says this hasn't played the format long enough. Is there a popular deck, yes. Does it allow a lot of wins against a large portion of the format, yes. Is it the best deck in the Format, no. The best deck in Legacy does not run those so called OP Blue cards. Your entire argument is a fallacy that appears to be based on your perception. Popular does not equate to best deck. This has been some sort of trend that people have been pushing for a while now, but it simply is not true.
A X/1 that makes it so you can spend more mana on casting another card is not that great. Will it be strong, sure, but not OP like you are making it out to be. You are saying this as if this card alone will win games. The power level in Legacy is not that low. Will it be a good card yes. but on turn 2 you are not going to be casting this. So when are you casting it? Turn 4? Turn 6? There are better things to be doing on those turns.
On the Legacy Banned list 10 out 56 cards are Blue. Most of them are colorless.
I didn't say it was the best deck, I deducted that's what you were implying in your argument. Nowhere in my argument have I mentioned decks, just cards.
Maybe "only" 10 of the banned cards are blue, but there are only 2 or 3 cards from other colors are banned, sans ante and manual dexterity bans. You don't live in a vacuum; you can't make a half-decent argument without including all the information. And, granted that blue is the #1 color for artifacts, you can argue that the vast majority of the banned cards favor blue. Tolarian academy isn't blue, but it favors blue.
There is no best deck in Legacy. Anyone that says this hasn't played the format long enough.
The best deck in Legacy does not run those so called OP Blue cards
Now you say that there is no best deck in legacy, and then you say the best deck doesn't run OP blue cards? How can a deck that doesn't exist run any type of cards? Your arguments are riddled with holes.
I also didn't say that it was overpowered, I said it was incredible. There's nothing wrong with incredible cards, except when they all end up as blue. This card would have done wonders for red. It even fits the flavor. But instead, they made it 100 times better than Recoup, and then made it blue, adding yet another blue staple into vintage.
Anyone *****ing about blue being strong and red being weak, please note that the top 8 of modern all were decks sporting red.
Thanks for coming out.
Red is also better than blue in a vacuum where tinker and lightning bolt are the only cards allowed. If you're going to repudiate the claim that red is weaker than blue as a whole, you probably need to look deeper than "top 8 decks from the last modern tournament."
I'm guessing they didn't make it red because 1RR for an instant 2/1 with lightning bolt would've been too much. Still, red is my fav color and I hope they make a great card like this for red.
It shows how new of a player that the OP is when he/she has no memory of the Black summer, how long Charbelcher was the dominate deck, and what color Natural Order is. Right now the most dominate deck in Legacy may be in U/W, that doesn't make it the best deck, as it has some bad matchups as well. Sure there mat be a popular one in U/W in Standard, but this has not always been the case. Last summer it was all about Valakut. That's a Green deck with a few mountains in it. Before that it was Jund. Before that it was 5CC. There are good cards in every set for every color.
Also, Purge is in White. You can't make a half***ed comment about it being a hate card in U decks when it takes 1W to cast it. This happens every release, Blue get's a decent card, and someone starts crying about it.
This is simply not true, it's only been recently that U has had any decent decks in Legacy. Zoo is by far the most popular and dominant deck in that format. Dredge is also a very powerful deck, and it has what 4 Blue cards if that.
So you're refuting my argument that blue is the best color because natural order is green? Someone must have forgotten that time walk is blue, ancestral recall is blue, and tinker—the artifact equivalent of natural order that costs one mana less and has no color restrictions—is blue.
And then you go on to say that blue isn't OP because, although the best deck runs primarily blue, that it's not impervious to losses? Be reminded that there is no deck that is impervious to losses. It's called making the slight effort to ban the staples of a deck that dominate the format.
It's not that blue got a great card, it's that blue got a ****ing amazing card that is pretty much guaranteed to join the eternal formats club while black, red, green, and white haven't gotten anything yet.
Card draw shifted from blue-only to blue primary/green secondary already over the last few blocks.
If they finish the shift to green primary/blue secondary it will balance the color pie without changing character of the game, especially since green is currently the weakest of all colors, it's even worse than red.
I believe red is a lot weaker than green. Red practically never gets awesome effects like Snapcaster Mage or Vengevine. You can at least build an amazing mono-green survival of the fittest deck. All red has is either a goblin assault or lightning bolts. That's why it's so pathetic.
There are 15 blue cards that are restricted in vintage (I included Tolarian Academy), but only 2 red cards (Burning Wish and Wheel of Fortune). That should tell everyone something.
In all fairness, blue is without question the hardest color to balance in the game. It's either ridiculously strong or incredibly weak; there's almost no middle ground when it comes to blue. As protoaddict mentioned, no other colors share what blue is best at, which happens to be two of the strongest abilities in Magic -- card drawing and countermagic.
Don't forget blue's insane affinity with artifacts. Tinker, tolarian academy, trinket/treasure mages, etc.
I play vintage and legacy, and blue dominates in both. Did you guys ever notice the number of banned or restricted blue cards? Blue is the most banned/restricted by far. Even simple stuff like brainstorm is incredibly overpowered.
First of all, if you don't want to see whining, don't read, don't post, and gtfo of this thread. You've been warned.
Update: In succinct, I am complaining about how pathetic the dev team is. Yes, this card is perfectly balanced in standard, but I'm not talking about standard. I'm talking about how cards affect the entire game, including Vintage and Legacy. This card could have been red and it would've been fine. It would've added a new element to red decks in eternal formats, giving red an actually decent mechanic instead of increasing the already excessive number of playable blue cards. The reason they didn't make it red? Probably because they don't care about Vintage/Legacy, and would love for it to die and have all players flock to a format where they can reprint cards (Modern).
Seriously, all I ever see are good blue cards. It's ridiculous that blue is considered to be "thought-provoking, wise, and strategic." This is a STRATEGY game, for heaven's sake. If the point of the game is to win, you can't make "win" the flavor of a color. It's ridiculous. Red, on the other hand, has underpowered random effects, which is the exact opposite of anything anyone wants to do in any strategy game.
I'm especially pissed because the newest spoiled card is better than everything else that's been spoiled, and I think it'll turn out to be like that for the rest of the set.
Snapcaster Mage - 1U
Creature - Human Wizard (R)
Flash
When Snapcaster Mage enters the battlefield, target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn. The flashback cost is equal to its mana cost.
2/1
Illus. Volkan Baga
According to this article, blue is supposed to be slow. Then why does blue specialize in FLASH?! Red should be flash.
My god, I'm just so sick of it. Artifacts, counterspells, card draw, etc. Blue is the best color in magic, and they keep making it better. You would think that they would know how to balance a game after almost 20 years.
I don't expect you to have read 10 pages of debating, but a good chunk of that was people agreeing that blue does, indeed, get the best cards. Also, I never said anything about blue "taking over the format." I'm not talking about standard.
Perfect example of the straw man.
My complaining is baseless? This thread is about blue getting all of the best cards, and I have a legitimate point. If you don't think Snapcaster is going to have any effect on any format, be my guest and give me a reason why. This thread wasn't even really about this particular card, it was about blue in general getting all of the best cards.
Don't waste my time by telling me how I should or shouldn't complain. The point of a debate isn't to argue about how people argue, it's to refute their arguments. Coming into the thread and saying "OP IS WHINING OP IS WHINING" isn't the least bit productive. If you're having such a hard time understanding that, move on.
The problem seems to be that everyone is listing all of these faulty arguments. Stuff like "there's no mono-blue deck in standard, therefore blue is weak." Or "all of the top decks have used red, therefore blue is weak." Seriously, stop joking around. Name a non-blue card that has been spoiled in ISD that will make a bigger impact on all the formats than Snapcaster.
I don't mind an argument, but I mind people *****ing about my whining. If you want to make a counterargument, make a valid point. My "ego" might not make me less wrong, but it sure as hell doesn't make any arguments more correct.
Are you even addressing the right person? I never said that this "is a mini Yawgmoth's Will," although whoever did say that has a point. And.. I didn't PM you? It sounds like you have the wrong person. LOL.
http://ark42.com/mtg/pricelist.php
This includes your own. The guide values cards a little high, but it shouldn't matter if you're only trading cards for cards. If you're trading for cash, use another source.
Anything on that list should be memorized. Anything not on that list is worth less than a dollar. You don't have to memorize the *entire* list, just the cards from the sets you're trading in.
Yes, because this thread is about how mono-blue decks singlehandedly dominate standard. Your reading comprehension skills are impressive!
Again, very impressive reading comprehension.
I didn't say it was the best deck, I deducted that's what you were implying in your argument. Nowhere in my argument have I mentioned decks, just cards.
Maybe "only" 10 of the banned cards are blue, but there are only 2 or 3 cards from other colors are banned, sans ante and manual dexterity bans. You don't live in a vacuum; you can't make a half-decent argument without including all the information. And, granted that blue is the #1 color for artifacts, you can argue that the vast majority of the banned cards favor blue. Tolarian academy isn't blue, but it favors blue.
Now you say that there is no best deck in legacy, and then you say the best deck doesn't run OP blue cards? How can a deck that doesn't exist run any type of cards? Your arguments are riddled with holes.
I also didn't say that it was overpowered, I said it was incredible. There's nothing wrong with incredible cards, except when they all end up as blue. This card would have done wonders for red. It even fits the flavor. But instead, they made it 100 times better than Recoup, and then made it blue, adding yet another blue staple into vintage.
Red is also better than blue in a vacuum where tinker and lightning bolt are the only cards allowed. If you're going to repudiate the claim that red is weaker than blue as a whole, you probably need to look deeper than "top 8 decks from the last modern tournament."
So you're refuting my argument that blue is the best color because natural order is green? Someone must have forgotten that time walk is blue, ancestral recall is blue, and tinker—the artifact equivalent of natural order that costs one mana less and has no color restrictions—is blue.
And then you go on to say that blue isn't OP because, although the best deck runs primarily blue, that it's not impervious to losses? Be reminded that there is no deck that is impervious to losses. It's called making the slight effort to ban the staples of a deck that dominate the format.
It's not that blue got a great card, it's that blue got a ****ing amazing card that is pretty much guaranteed to join the eternal formats club while black, red, green, and white haven't gotten anything yet.
And I'm the newbie? Laughable.
I believe red is a lot weaker than green. Red practically never gets awesome effects like Snapcaster Mage or Vengevine. You can at least build an amazing mono-green survival of the fittest deck. All red has is either a goblin assault or lightning bolts. That's why it's so pathetic.
There are 15 blue cards that are restricted in vintage (I included Tolarian Academy), but only 2 red cards (Burning Wish and Wheel of Fortune). That should tell everyone something.
Don't forget blue's insane affinity with artifacts. Tinker, tolarian academy, trinket/treasure mages, etc.
Update: In succinct, I am complaining about how pathetic the dev team is. Yes, this card is perfectly balanced in standard, but I'm not talking about standard. I'm talking about how cards affect the entire game, including Vintage and Legacy. This card could have been red and it would've been fine. It would've added a new element to red decks in eternal formats, giving red an actually decent mechanic instead of increasing the already excessive number of playable blue cards. The reason they didn't make it red? Probably because they don't care about Vintage/Legacy, and would love for it to die and have all players flock to a format where they can reprint cards (Modern).
Seriously, all I ever see are good blue cards. It's ridiculous that blue is considered to be "thought-provoking, wise, and strategic." This is a STRATEGY game, for heaven's sake. If the point of the game is to win, you can't make "win" the flavor of a color. It's ridiculous. Red, on the other hand, has underpowered random effects, which is the exact opposite of anything anyone wants to do in any strategy game.
I'm especially pissed because the newest spoiled card is better than everything else that's been spoiled, and I think it'll turn out to be like that for the rest of the set.
Creature - Human Wizard (R)
Flash
When Snapcaster Mage enters the battlefield, target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn. The flashback cost is equal to its mana cost.
2/1
Illus. Volkan Baga
According to this article, blue is supposed to be slow. Then why does blue specialize in FLASH?! Red should be flash.
My god, I'm just so sick of it. Artifacts, counterspells, card draw, etc. Blue is the best color in magic, and they keep making it better. You would think that they would know how to balance a game after almost 20 years.