I think there are several important features that it has which make it viable, at least in the sideboard. It costs 1 mana, is white, and triggers heroic (along with an additional +1/+1 bonus and indestructible).
I find in matches where I am forced to board in more counter spells, such as Mardu and UB Control, there can be issues with having enough blue mana, especially when using blue to cast Ordeal of Thassa or Aqueous Form, then needing open blue mana for counter spells. I also notice in these matches that the deck is not as fast or aggressive because the counter spells are not triggering heroic. Essentially I am looking at the counter spells we are running as a necessary evil for these match ups, and would rather run white heroic enablers where possible.
I can certainly see both sides of the discussion and respect both positions, but it seems to me that Ajani's Presence is still an incredibly useful card in this deck, not only for keeping your creature alive from opposing spells, but also in combat. It seems to be a great answer for many of the common removal spells such as Lightning Strike, Stoke the Flames, Hero's Downfall, Bile Blight, Murderous Cut and End Hostilities.
I have to admit I have not been a fan of Heliod's Pilgrim right from the beginning. 3 mana to find an Aura and then you have to cast it ... are you kidding me? Why not run more Auras, specifically more Aqueous Form, which I am never unhappy to see in my hand. I am not a fan of Seeker of the Way either, I would rather run all heroic creatures and have a redundant Aura/Instant package.
Against Scapeshift, you can Tectonic Edge a non-basic mountain (ie. Stomping Ground or Steam Vents) to slow them down. Also if they attempt to go off with 7 lands on the board by fetching 6 mountains and a Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, while all the Valakut triggers are on the stack, you can destroy one of their non-basic mountains, then when all the triggers try to resolve there are no longer 5 other mountains on the board. This results in only 1 trigger successfully resolving, the trigger from the mountain that you destroyed, because it still sees 5 other mountains. Of course a good Scapeshift player will be well aware of that and won't go off until 8 land. So mainly you just kill a non-basic mountain once they get to 4 land to slow them down.
Ghost Quarter doesn't work for Scapeshift because they just search out a basic mountain, but it is great against Tron because you can kill the Urza lands before they reach Tron. Also, one thing to be aware of in the Mono U Tron match-up is you can stop the Academy Ruins / Mindslaver combo with either Ghost Quarter or Tectonic Edge.
I was never that worried about RG Tron, so I didn't run Ghost Quarter, but Mono U Tron and Scapeshift gave me a few issues, so I started running a single Tectonic Edge in the side as an option to find with Sylvan Scrying. It is probably good against Celestial Colonnade in UWR Control too, but I have never actually tried that out.
Thanks calexil, it is much appreciated. I recently went in a big tourney with the Necropede list, thinking it would be good against UR Delver, and ended up playing a bunch of matches against Delver and got the Necropede out, only to have it hit with Vapor Snag, Remand or Spell Snare each time, while my opponent successfully bought the time he needed to win. So for the MonoG version I have put back in Sylvan Scrying, which has definitely been a great card for the deck. Necropede has been good against Burn though.
As has been suggested I am starting to think main decking 2 Spellskite instead of the 2 Dismember could be useful in the current format, although it will still get bounced and countered. Maybe something like Gut Shot could be useful in the side to help slow Delver down.
As for the plan for running a tool box of land in the sideboard, I have had some success running a single Tectonic Edge in the side, which I boarded in against Scapeshift and Tron, but of course Ghost Quarter would be better against Tron. Sejiri Steppe looks good, as tutor-able evasion. Bojuka Bog could be interesting to keep Treasure Cruise at bay. Let us know how you go with it!
Is this necessary? You only ever need one blue and one black source at all times.
I am just worried about color screw, and I only run one Pendelhaven anyway, as I seem to like drawing the 2nd one!
I have noticed though that an online player called Lazy5000 has been running a 2/4 split with 4 Overgrown Tomb, instead of the usual 2/2 split. Blue has Noble Hierarch, so it seems he runs an extra couple of Overgrown Tomb to help with black.
Edit: Izzet, I notice in his latest result he has 1 Darkblast in the sideboard.
I am taking back what I have being saying about Necropede, although it has been reasonable against burn, it really hasn't been great against the field. The format in general seems faster and UR Delver is proving very hard to beat, especially with MonoG. I have a feeling that the period of MonoG being a viable Infect option is over, it just feels too slow.
The brutal speed and evasion of BUG, may actually prove to be the best option. That is what I have switched to now. One thing is for sure, the current format is proving to be very difficult for Infect.
@Kovo, honestly GB is not that great, and I am not saying that without having tried. Phyrexian Crusader is awesome, but the double black cost hurts the deck. I think the best option if you want to run black is to go BUG. Add Breeding Pool, Blighted Agent and Noble Hierarch and you will have a far more brutal deck (even if you don't have the Hierarchs).
Back to UG, and I have found a list that recently placed in the Top 8 of an SCG-IQ, that is starting to look more like a deck that has adapted to the current modern meta.
Ichorclaw Myr resumes its place in the deck instead of Viridian Corrupter. It is faster, and is good at dispatching blockers. It should be noted that it is much better now that there are less Tarmogoyfs in the format.
Giant Growth is being run instead of Might of Old Krosa. I have been a big fan of that plan for a long time, but it is even more relevant now than it has been in the past with all the burn going around. Good to see it being tried in UG anyway.
3 Spellskite in the main deck. It seems like a good card in an aggro/tempo format. It is a great early blocker, saves creatures from removal, and can redirect a Lightning Bolt to the face. This is going to be more relevant than it has been in the past.
Also, I notice he is running 21 land, with 1 Island along with the usual 2 Forest. I wonder if that is because he has been running into Blood Moon.
@Izzetmage, nice post, there is certainly some things to consider there. Become Immense just feels like a bit of a win more card that is going to get stuck in your hand some of the time. Kind of reminds me of Revenge of the Hunted. Still, it is worth pondering, there could be a good build for it. I actually used to run an Ancient Stirrings artifact creatures build a while back, which brought me some success, before Sylvan Scrying caught my attention.
I'm not sure if this has come up, but how can we beat Burn? Is it the same as UWR, do we rely on Wild Defiance? I've been having a really hard time dealing with the Burn matchup to the point where I've considered switching to a faster deck like Twin or Delver.
MonoG has been matching up just fine for me against burn. The fact that it doesn't take any damage from the mana base quite often means an extra turn, and burn isn't great at blocking.
Necropede has been great too against Burn and UR Delver. It is basically a removal spell on an Infect body against those decks. Even turning a Goblin Guide into a 1/1 land filtering machine after they bolt the pede, can turn the game. Again it can slow them down by a turn, which is quite often all you need.
Commenting on the recent trend started by Tom the Boss, to run main deck Viridian Corrupter in UG, is no longer a viable option (sideboard is still good though). Ichorclaw Myr was played in that slot previously, perhaps it is time to put Necropede there and give it a genuine test.
Also, whatever version you run, boarding in Spellskite is good against burn.
Gitaxian Probe seems like a good way to get what you need in the bin faster, he was running 3.
Not really sure, seems like there are other pumps that will get you there more consistently.
I have to tell you though, I am liking the way this Treasure Cruise/Delve format is reducing the number of BGx decks being played. There is nothing I hate more as an Infect player than a turn 1 Thoughtseize.
1. I recently got Noble Hierarchs and I have found them to be quite useful in the Mono Green build with the extra mana allowing to fight spell wars to save infect guys. Do you think it is worth it? (Cuts were 1 Cathedral, 2 Rancor, 1 Groundswell)
Their was a MonoG deck not long ago that won a 187 person event that was running 4 Noble Hierarch, so it seems to work, but is less important than in UGx. MonoG needs 4 Rancor though as a way to get past blockers.
I have to admit, I was happy with Necropede since it keeps Burn's early creatures at bay. Wasn't happy with Marrow Shards with testing against UR/w Delver (with Treasure Cruise; by the time he attacked the Delver's already flipped and he never includes Young Pyromancer
Marrow Shards has been a bit hit or miss for me too. I am scrapping it. The best card to fill the slot in the sideboard is probably Spellskite.
I'm thinking of putting 2 Wild Defiance in its place. I've always wanted to use this but I've had doubts of how to use it effectively. Am I right to think that I'd play this first before my infect dorks? Wouldn't this dud against UR decks since they'll counter it anyway, plus it's sorcery speed unlike your 1cc protection spells? What if my opponent is Zoo who can race me both board and to da face?
Including Inkmoth Nexus and Sylvan Scrying, I always look to run 16 Infect creatures, so from your list it looks like you just need an extra 2.
I think there are several important features that it has which make it viable, at least in the sideboard. It costs 1 mana, is white, and triggers heroic (along with an additional +1/+1 bonus and indestructible).
I find in matches where I am forced to board in more counter spells, such as Mardu and UB Control, there can be issues with having enough blue mana, especially when using blue to cast Ordeal of Thassa or Aqueous Form, then needing open blue mana for counter spells. I also notice in these matches that the deck is not as fast or aggressive because the counter spells are not triggering heroic. Essentially I am looking at the counter spells we are running as a necessary evil for these match ups, and would rather run white heroic enablers where possible.
I can certainly see both sides of the discussion and respect both positions, but it seems to me that Ajani's Presence is still an incredibly useful card in this deck, not only for keeping your creature alive from opposing spells, but also in combat. It seems to be a great answer for many of the common removal spells such as Lightning Strike, Stoke the Flames, Hero's Downfall, Bile Blight, Murderous Cut and End Hostilities.
Ghost Quarter doesn't work for Scapeshift because they just search out a basic mountain, but it is great against Tron because you can kill the Urza lands before they reach Tron. Also, one thing to be aware of in the Mono U Tron match-up is you can stop the Academy Ruins / Mindslaver combo with either Ghost Quarter or Tectonic Edge.
I was never that worried about RG Tron, so I didn't run Ghost Quarter, but Mono U Tron and Scapeshift gave me a few issues, so I started running a single Tectonic Edge in the side as an option to find with Sylvan Scrying. It is probably good against Celestial Colonnade in UWR Control too, but I have never actually tried that out.
As has been suggested I am starting to think main decking 2 Spellskite instead of the 2 Dismember could be useful in the current format, although it will still get bounced and countered. Maybe something like Gut Shot could be useful in the side to help slow Delver down.
As for the plan for running a tool box of land in the sideboard, I have had some success running a single Tectonic Edge in the side, which I boarded in against Scapeshift and Tron, but of course Ghost Quarter would be better against Tron. Sejiri Steppe looks good, as tutor-able evasion. Bojuka Bog could be interesting to keep Treasure Cruise at bay. Let us know how you go with it!
I have noticed though that an online player called Lazy5000 has been running a 2/4 split with 4 Overgrown Tomb, instead of the usual 2/2 split. Blue has Noble Hierarch, so it seems he runs an extra couple of Overgrown Tomb to help with black.
Edit: Izzet, I notice in his latest result he has 1 Darkblast in the sideboard.
4 Windswept Heath
3 Breeding Pool
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Pendelhaven
1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Plague Stinger
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Groundswell
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Rancor
4 Nature's Claim
4 Spell Pierce
2 Dismember
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Spellskite
1 Creeping Corrosion
I am only running 1 Pendelhaven and 1 Forest to try and maximize the the number of Breeding Pool and Overgrown Tomb, while still keeping the land count at 20. I have Spell Pierce in the side but that might get replaced with Inquisition of Kozilek.
I do stand by what I said about Ichorclaw Myr being a better option than Viridian Corrupter at the moment in UG.
The brutal speed and evasion of BUG, may actually prove to be the best option. That is what I have switched to now. One thing is for sure, the current format is proving to be very difficult for Infect.
Back to UG, and I have found a list that recently placed in the Top 8 of an SCG-IQ, that is starting to look more like a deck that has adapted to the current modern meta.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=74927
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Spellskite
4 Giant Growth
4 Groundswell
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Vines of Vastwood
1 Dismember
3 Distortion Strike
1 Cathedral of War
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
1 Island
2 Pendelhaven
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Apostle's Blessing
3 Dismember
2 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Nature's Claim
Ichorclaw Myr resumes its place in the deck instead of Viridian Corrupter. It is faster, and is good at dispatching blockers. It should be noted that it is much better now that there are less Tarmogoyfs in the format.
Giant Growth is being run instead of Might of Old Krosa. I have been a big fan of that plan for a long time, but it is even more relevant now than it has been in the past with all the burn going around. Good to see it being tried in UG anyway.
3 Spellskite in the main deck. It seems like a good card in an aggro/tempo format. It is a great early blocker, saves creatures from removal, and can redirect a Lightning Bolt to the face. This is going to be more relevant than it has been in the past.
Also, I notice he is running 21 land, with 1 Island along with the usual 2 Forest. I wonder if that is because he has been running into Blood Moon.
MonoG has been matching up just fine for me against burn. The fact that it doesn't take any damage from the mana base quite often means an extra turn, and burn isn't great at blocking.
Necropede has been great too against Burn and UR Delver. It is basically a removal spell on an Infect body against those decks. Even turning a Goblin Guide into a 1/1 land filtering machine after they bolt the pede, can turn the game. Again it can slow them down by a turn, which is quite often all you need.
Commenting on the recent trend started by Tom the Boss, to run main deck Viridian Corrupter in UG, is no longer a viable option (sideboard is still good though). Ichorclaw Myr was played in that slot previously, perhaps it is time to put Necropede there and give it a genuine test.
Also, whatever version you run, boarding in Spellskite is good against burn.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=75643
Gitaxian Probe seems like a good way to get what you need in the bin faster, he was running 3.
Not really sure, seems like there are other pumps that will get you there more consistently.
I have to tell you though, I am liking the way this Treasure Cruise/Delve format is reducing the number of BGx decks being played. There is nothing I hate more as an Infect player than a turn 1 Thoughtseize.
I wouldn't recommend Wild Defiance unless you are running Noble Hierarch to accelerate it out.