MTG Salvation

Ancestral Visions, at it's current price, falls into the "I will not pay that much money in order to do what it does in mtg" category of cards for me. That said, clearly there are a lot of people that think it is worth paying that $43 in order to play the card. All you can do is decide how you value a card and hope that not too many other people value it more than you do.

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I have it on good authority that the block after INS2.0 will take place on a plane with a large body of water. I don't know the name of it, but I am pretty sure it will start with a consonant.

Quote from paper2016 »

I wonder how many weeks of linear decks doing well will happen before we see more interactive decks.

Linear does not mean they are not interactive. Some linear aren't interactive, but just because the line of play is is mostly singular does not mean that they don't interact along the way.

Quote from Tipsygiggle »

That isn't really a good way to describe it either. People are just playing the fastest decks. Boogles might be a good deck to play imo.

Okay...I am not predicting anything, and I am not commenting on the metagame as it is now. I'm making a comment regarding the type of play that Wizards would have a problem with purely because of how it appears on camera. Wizards wants people to watch PT coverage, and there are certain archetypes that, when too common, do not create the kind of on-camera entertainment that I think they are looking for. I also think that this is above an beyond any actual play experience, because I have had plenty of games in which both players were challenged and had a good time, but would probably have been dull to watch. I think that spectator appeal it self is a factor in how Wizards makes metagame decisions.

Quote from Malt_Meister »

Yea at this point I have too many decks and a few others I enjoy playing more so this one was the one I thought to get rid of. I feel like it would be the best time to move the cards so I agree with you to sell now I think.

I am a dedicated builder of a pool of Modern staples. It is one* of the reasons that when the Eldrazi deck got noticed at the end of last year all I needed to acquire to play was 1x Eldrazi Temple, 1x Eye of Ugin, and 1x Ulamog. I say this for you to understand where I am coming from when I say that selling IoK seems like a bad idea to me.

Inquisition of Kozilek has been an often played Modern card since day 1, and I have put mine in so many decks in the last 4 years. I think it is better than Thoughtseize most of the time. They are super overpriced right now (and it may even be peak price) so it is tempting to sell/trade them, but I know I would rather miss out on a potential peak than risk needing them and not wanting to pay the price they settle at. Ktkenshin usually has pretty solid information, so I give him the benefit of the doubt most of the time, but I had not heard that there was any confirmation of (or even strongly implied) Emmy in SOI. There has been speculation, and I understand how it would fit, but that is as solid as I thought it was. I don't know what the source is, but if true then there is a pretty decent chance of them wiggling a reason for a card with the name "Kozilek" to be in the set. IoK is not even definitively better than Duress in Standard so I would think it would be only lightly played. That said, if it doesn't then it will have another stupid spike. I play it safe and keep at least one playset of IoK, but I have a pretty decent collection so I don't need to churn my cards to get other cards as much as some people do.

So, knowing my conservative stance if I had a mono-black Eldrazi deck and needed to churn the cards for other cards I would sell:

• All but two Urborgs- Most decks that run it in Modern only have run a single copy, but you might want to put it in more than one deck at once.
• All Eye of Ugin- the only other deck that runs this is Tron, and the card is not going to gain much if it does well on the PT, but will crash a lot if it does not.
• All Oblivion Sower, Blight Herder, and Wasteland Strangler

That's about it. I would keep my Eldrazi Temples because I suspect a few of the OGW cards that require C are going to find their way into other decks and it is a solid land to include for that. Maybe go down to two, but even that makes me squirm. Relic of Progenitus is almost certainly at peak price, but even if they go back to $1.50 before too long the $14 you missed out on getting by selling now is not worth not having them later. As I said when this all started, I had absolutely no sympathy for people that had been playing Modern for a while and balked at having to buy $5 Relics. They should have already been in your SB staples ages ago.

Everything else in the deck- removal and such, should just stay in your staple collection.


*The other reason is that I had grabbed the processor Eldrazi when they came out for very little. It was not a prediction per say, I just thought they had potential for brewing and I was not out much if they ended up being casual chaff.

I see JVP at $35-$40 in September and October baring new pressures. Even if it is only played in one deck the price memory + the PW tax will keep it at $30+. I rarely am willing to buy a card (that I need more than one of) if they are $30+, but I don't feel bad about getting my last JVP for 4500 Puca Points even if it drops to $30. It's a fun card, and I think people are really underestimating how much play it could see a year from now. It will not stay only in one tier 1-2 deck.

This person is probably a MTG player, but there is a pretty good chance this was fueled by a perceived need. Drugs, gambling...things like that fuel risky behavior like this, not a desire to play the game. It happens all too often with other untraceable valuables, but it is always a shock when it happens to your community.

I'm actually shocked that this thread is three posts in and no one has blamed WotC for this yet.

Quote from Horacus »

Hello everyone. New here. I see no RG scapeshif tread so I think I have to post here. I'm brewing some list that I'll post later. I look to share and learn from this deck some time arround.

It's weird that there isn't one, because if it is the deck I am thinking of it is very different. It is way more aggressive than Temur Scapeshift generally is, and it's strategy ramps faster. It also had some coverage and did decently at an event recently (SCG or GP).

I have no say about this thread, so perhaps this is the place to discuss it and I am totally wrong.

EDIT:
Is THIS the deck you are talking about? That is what I assumed (and why I said it was so different), but perhaps you are talking about another RG Scapeshift deck.

I haven't read the thread yet, but I imagine it is a lot of people who agree with me and a lot of people who don't. I have to say that I am kinda done with this format for a while- at least spending money on events, singles, or sealed product. In hind site I was wrong about how right the Pod ban was, and I may be wrong about this Twin ban too (I really doubt it), but the idea that the format going forward is going to just ban the best deck even if it is not decreasing the variety of other decks, winning regularly before turn 4, or otherwise dominating a significant number of top 8's (IMO). Even if the recent history of the format had GPs with a little more twin than is ideal, the metagame could have easily adapted and changed that.

All this ban does is make people concerned about their deck if it does well. Not too well, not warping the meta, just well. I wouldn't recommend anyone buy into a deck that has proven to be a solid aspect of the metagame for any amount of time. Infect...no way. In no format should the discussion about a deck ever involve people hoping no one does well with their deck during a big even just because the deck had done well on the two previous. I know that is hyperbole, but I have seen it a couple of times in a couple of archetype threads, and this just exacerbates that. You know what deck will get a big ban next? The best one...for no other apparent reason. A non-rotating format should have people cheering for their favorite deck, not hoping that it doesn't get too high profile.

You know what's great about non-rotating formats? Buying in to a deck and being reasonbly sure that as long as your deck is not breaking one of the core tenants of the format it will be a deck you can pilot for a long while. With bans like Splinter Twin they have introduced a defacto rotation into Modern that is all the worse for being unpredictable.

I have been a ******* cheerleader for this format since day one, and have respected most of the bans so far even if I did not agree with them. I can't see myself doing that as much anymore. All I can do make my voice heard (I will be writing to the appropriate places) and vote with my wallet. As I have said to other people many times, if my view is in the majority and people do the same then Wizards will respond, and if my view is in the minority or people don't do the same then I guess the format has just left me behind. I am not pissing on my collection and then lighting it on fire, but my money is not going to be used to support it. It is simply a matter of do I want to put money into a format that does not make me feel good to support? Why would I?

Really sucks, too. I've long hated Limited, I never wanted to play Legacy really, I lost my faith in EDH with the tuck rule change, and I only half-assed play Standard ever because a buddy of mine does and wants me to go to FNM with him. Magic really has no formats left that I am willing to say that I support, at this point.

Other stuff:
Bloom Ban: Probably the right call, though I would never have objected to a Hive Mind ban as well on pure principle.
No SFM Unban: Yea, I expected as much. I just wish a ban on people talking about an unban came down as well.
No SotM unban: After the Splinter Twin ban I have zero faith that any card that might be used for a combo win, even if the deck that runs it is a Control deck, will come off the ban list.

Quote from mishrazz »

Chalice of the Void are flying of the shelves. Sold out several places.

Glad I got mine a couple years ago :/ Only have two tho.

Oh my.. I have yet to encounter this issue while learning / teaching. Is it that bad? I usually teach in this manner:
X can be paid with 1, R, W, B, U & G.
W can only be paid by W and so on..
"Lets play a game of Magic to learn more."

How do you teach?

Changing generic mana to colorless-only mana is where I cannot see even with Kozilek as its card still retains both mana.
My opinion is 1 of annoyance as why is a meaningless restriction being introduced? I can only hope all mana tapping will be autonomous in the future.

No matter what WotC does, as long as their profits remain great, the message they are receiving is "Lets continue this trend as we are making money."
I aint too happy with WotC's policies too. If you are unhappy, show it to WotC via your spending. Otherwise it is all noise.

So you may constantly experience $1000 standard deck, $100 Jace etc.
Lackluster MM at $10.

Quote from DrWorm »

Quote from Malt_Meister »

Thanks for the input! I was not keen on selling the IoK myself but the rest I'm cool letting go I think. I'm not much of a gambler so I'd rather let the stuff go now at a price I'm sure of.

It's funny, you say you are not much of a gambler, and neither am I, but we look at it differently. I am not willing to gamble on having to buy a card later for more money (or even less money when I have less to spend), so I hold on to the cards I think I may want to play again even if I know it is at peak and will be dropping in value. Some people don't mind selling close to peak and then re-buying when the price drops a lot, but for me it is almost never worth the risk or additional time it would take me to do so. With my staples it really doesn't matter to me what their price is because I almost never get rid of them.

When it comes to my trade/buylist/Puca cards, like extra staples or cards desired in formats I don't play, I may watch closer and work on my timing. That is more as a sort of game rather than any real need for the value cloe to peak. It does give me more MTG capital to play with, however.

You are exactly right, and that is why I stated that I doubt I will sell the IoKs because I feel like that is a card I will use in the future, whereas the rest of the deck is pretty unique to that deck alone (the eldrazi themselves, the eyes, the temples etc). I will probably keep the Thoughtseizes because those are always useful, but in the long run I totally agree with you about keeping "staples"

Oh, yeah, I meant that every other deck runs less than a full playset. If I wanted to play Scapeshift, I'd be running 4 Vents, 4 Grounds, and then 2-3 Breeding Pool or something. Like if I'm getting ~2 of each shock, then I'm only 1-2 Vent/Ground from having Scapeshift's shocks. I'm explaining this correctly? I recognize that I'd need more than 8 shocks, is all I mean.

As for Eldrazi, I've got a playset of Caves of Koilos already, so I'm good on that front.

Thanks for the reply.

For everyone wanting to discuss the RG Titanshift version, we have a thread for that

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/654300-rg-titan-scapeshift

Quote from Colt47 »

I've got 3 claws and 4 relics. I could try mainboarding the surgical extractions in place of something and I'm still waiting on my Thought-knot seer's to get over here. The Mind stone seem pretty weak in the mono-black build so I could probably replace those with the Thought-knot seer.

That's actually really good. I see a whole lot of lists with only the 4-of Relics and maybe a Bojuka Bog or two. I don't think they're getting value from Processing like I am.

Who the **** cares if they can now unban some blue cards when (if) those decks become strong, they WILL BE BANNED.

Quote from Godec »

Also, this tweet says it all:

https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/688461339027607552

to me this just means he's doing things out of spite because he's bitter they had to keep modern PTs. Would have much preferred they stuck to their guns and gave us some transparency.

I'm not done with the format, but it has absolutely reduced my interest and confidence in the format. I'd much rather axe the Pro Tour than Twin.