MTG Salvation

Quote from cfusionpm »

No fetchland has seen a drop as a result of rotation yet. Pretty much all of them spiked up with the BFZ rotation, and have remained relatively flat afterwards. There is no indication they will go more than 1-2$ lower than they are now, and all of them are currently higher than they were pre-BFZ. So either people are *not* selling them, or demand is keeping up with supply.

Yea, that's what I was saying. I think in this case there is increasing demand from retailer buylists because they have seen such reliable growth with them. That is just smart business. They know that players will pay a lot for fetches because the player base has constantly reinforced that belief.

Quote from Tanukimo »

So it will drop more than the fetchlands did? Seems weird that anyone would want to sell it off seeing as it sees play in Modern.

There are plenty of people that sell their rotating cards that see play in Modern so that they can fund the new Standard. Sure bets (like the fetches) may get held on to, but if a player only plays Standard and does not want to spend their time holding watching the market for the best time then they have no reason to hold on to rotating cards. Sure, Modern has made the churn somewhat less severe, but it still happens plenty.

Quote from MisterDizzy »

I don't know why WOTC doesn't print Modern/Legacy only cards. Like Commander cards with Legacy/Vintage. The reason format gets stale is because the cards need to pass the Standard/Limited test, which means in most cases they're at best at a power level to be a supplement to a existing Modern deck. A "eternal" format only set allows WOTC to have a lot more freedom in card design and encourages creative deck building.

I think from their point of view it complicates the process of knowing what is in the format and what formats supplemental products feed. Right now it is very simple- anything printed in a standard legal set from 8th forward is modern legal. Of course also reprints of cards already legal in modern, but that is already the accepted rule for constructed formats. Supplemental products only bolster eternal formats, which of course Modern is not. Having some supplimental products that do bolster Modern and some that don't is confusing, and just changing the policy by allowing supplimental sets from a given point forward puts a real limitation on what can be included in these sets.

Also people seem to forget that there is a practical limit on how many sets Wizard's has time to design, and that can be printed in a given year. There is also a limit on how much product a player will buy in a given year, so there is a very real risk of spending more money to print more product, only to have a significant portion of the intended target player simply shift their MTG spending rather than increasing it. A player who buys 1 MMA pack rather than 3 boosters of the current set does not justify the printing of addional product.

I don't claim to be a good indicator of the average consumer, but when it comes to hearthstone vs MTG would rather play a good game that I have to pay more for than a shallow cartoony game I can play for free. MTG prices are rough at times, but when you make a product that has physical objects that are legal to buy and sell without any real limitations then the price will be, in large part, driven by the consumer. People will always pay for exclusivity, often while they complain about it.

MTG has not seen tournament numbers trend down in some time, regardless of what you and your friends think or what you see at the local level. When or if they do then you will see changes, but until the people who have a problem with the price of the game and refuse to pay that price number high enough to impact popularity they will simply be a sullen minority.

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Goblin Guide- I think it is ripe for reprint, but then I thought that about Serum Visions too. That said I am pretty risk averse so if I thought there was any chance I would play them then I would hold on to them.

The elf- I don't see it making it in Modern. A non-tribal deck that can get 6 lands out in a modern game has better things to do with it's mana than a 4/5 with Vigilance I would think. If it were a cheap card then I would say that your losses would be small enough that the risk is worth it, but at $8 I just don't see much of an upside. Especially since it is a rare which don't hold a lot of value in the short term.

Quote from Sirius_B »

Cool, localy there are 6 ADV stores and 2 ADV+ stores at 30 minute drive from each other and they'd rather fight for T2 attendance than hold any other kind of event.
One has Modern FNM each week, one has Modern FNM once a month, one holds the Legacy league and has to cater to EDH the rest of the open days because T2 little *****s pretty much boycotted them and won't go to their FNMs.

So at least here, "people will pay to play Modern" is met with "more people we care about more will pay to play Standard".

Well not here. Standard and Modern seem to be about an even split. EDH is big too, with the bigger shops all having a weekly EDH night. You couldn't get enough people here to play Legacy of you offered free pizza and erotic dancers.

Guess neither of us should be making sweeping predictions about the format based on our personal experience.

Quote from JPAzS71121 »

Why was this deck demoted so far? I've been a little out of touch.

My guess is because the archetype has splintered a bit, with RG Titanshift breaking off. It is still making top 8's pretty regularly from what I can tell, it just is in a different forum.

Quote from Sirius_B »

Probably.

Stores don't really have a reason to support the format outside it's "PPTQ Season" anymore...

Because "people will pay to play in Modern events" is not a reason? The shop I go to is large and generally has pretty popular modern events. I think I have talked to two players that were at all concerned about PwP, the rest seem to just want to do as well as they can in the event they are playing in.

Quote from The Fluff »

Got another question. Wondering Basilisk Collar priced high right now.. a near mint is almost 9 dollars at SCG. Is there a deck in Modern that uses the card? Thanks.

I think that has got to be EDH driven. I know that is what I use my copies for. It is also one of those cards that is casual sexy enough to drive the price up. It has been a pretty steady grower for the last three years.

It is also a card that looks plausibly good enough and is old enough to be a ripe target for a buyout, though I don't think that is the case. I think it is just a card that long term speculators see as a long term sleeper card that could be the next Doubling Season or Crucible of Worlds in two years. They're probably not far off either.

Quote from ernest_theweedwhackerguy »

as far as my gaming hobby goes, if you must know, my first playstation was a gift from my aunt. the only games i had for it were Final Fantasy VII and Harvest Moon: Back to Nature, which both had more than enough gameplay to keep me busy(i was 9 at the time). my PS2 was a christmas present. four years after it had been released. by that time, a lot of the good games were only $5-$20. the first console i bought was a PS3 a couple years after it was released. i'm patient and can wait until games are only $20 before i buy them. i see no point in buying a new release game for $50-$60 when i know it'll drop to around $20 a year or so after it's released.

It is pretty rare for popular AAA titles to go down to as little as $20 even a year later. That is especially true if they have DLC. Witcher 3 is almost exactly a year old and it is still $35-$40 new, and if you want to play the DLC (which is amazing in this case) you are adding even more. Some titles age worse than others...you might be able to pick up Star Wars Battlefront in a year for $25 since it's popularity has dropp.ed quite a bit

so lets see here: 300(ps3)+300(ps4)+$40(fallout4, only game i have for ps4)= $640. now ps3 games: $20x15= $300. $640+$300= $940. still less than a tier 2 deck.

I actually disagree with your premise that MTG is one of the more expensive hobbies, but I can sort of support the console gaming as being cheaper (depending on how you compare). I sold out of my MTGO collection for cash (+some credit) about a year ago and with that I was able to play with a few hundred, buy a new PS4 and still use the rest to cover 75% of our moving fees. I was shocked, but I also had cards that I had bought for pennies years ago which gained a lot, so it is hard to compare.

The problem is your standard for gaming is the most casual of casual console gamers (I am in that boat myself, though I spend a little more than you), is not analogous to building most tier 2 Modern decks. You build tiered Modern decks to compete on some level, even if it is only at FNM. Even casual console gamers who compete with other randos online have to add an additional PS+ monthly fee, and many feel specialized controlers and good headsets are part of that. You might even add in some portion of your highspeed connection, since online gaming puts a real demand on your connection. The level that you (and me) game at would be more analogous to the casual MTG player who can play with some theme decks and the odd single or booster pack. I took time off from paying attention to magic and played for a year and a half without paying anything. Was I making tier 2 Extended decks? No, but I was playing the hell out of my mono black Rogue tribal deck that had no rares in it, and mining by back collection for gems that I hadn't tried yet. The last PS3 game I bought was Dragon Age Inquisition when it first came out (didn't have my ps4 yet), but I have logged scores of hours on it since, playing old classics like the Mass Effect trilogy, Skyrim, and Fallout 3. I even pulled out Orange Box at one point, though only to find that the disc was not reliably playable due to a scratch. That seems pretty similar to how I played casual magic.

Quote from Oopssorryy »

Please do not call D&D cheap. Have you seen the price of books? I've got PDFs of all the 3.5 stuff, and it's around 13gigs. Each book can go for 20 bucks and there are soooooooo many books.

True, but I have been playing tabletop RPGs for decades and have gone through periods when all I could or was willing to spend was enough to get the most basic elements, some graph paper, and a mechanical pencil. Hell, the 5th edition D&D ruleset is so robust, simple, and flexible that all I have bought are the PHB, DMG, and MM. On the other hand I can fully backup how expensive it can be. I went deep into Fantasy Flight's 3rd Edition Warhammer FRPG, and that system is so reliant on the high quality gaming accessories that went with it that it would be very limiting to only get the compiled box set.

Quote from Colt47 »

I'm kind of curious what would happen if Wizards did something like, "These lands will never be printed in a standard set again, but we will continue to print them regularly in commander and modern/eternal masters" with the zendikar fetches and shock lands, then reduced the rarity to uncommon.

I'm curious what would happen if they started making the cards out of beef jerky. That is about as likely as what you're wondering about. Supplemental products are not made to drive prices, they are designed to be good to play. As much as I hate it, X Masters type sets are designed around Limited play almost more than whatever format is in the name. Commander decks are designed for Commander players primarily, and while the Fetches are great in EDH having them in the precons would result in product shortage for sure. Since they put a lot of weight on these decks being easily accessible for people wanting to get into EDH, that seems like a bad outcome. Tying the hands of the people that design these product, so that they can pump lands into Modern is lazy design, and makes for stale products.

Not to mention the secondary market is increasingly becoming a problem for the company thanks to the games image being tarnished as a game for the overly rich, and this isn't hyperbole.

It may not be hyperbole for you, or your friends, or the people people who write about magic that you choose to read, perhaps. What does "overly rich" even mean? By "increasingly" are you talking about raw numbers or percentage of the total magic population? I suppose all it takes for your sentence to be accurate is one more person every year, since that is technically an increase, but is it even meaningful? I suspect your sentence is in fact hyperbole, but I don't know for sure since I try not to be stuck in the viewpoint that my MTG bubble represents the whole.

How boring would it be for the same lands being printed in some product even every other year? It would kill a lot of anticipation (which drives sales). Personally I look forward to each new set for what new things it brings to the game. KTK was perfect because it took some pressure off the absolute need to get the Zen fetches, and at the same time added 5 new staple lands to a growing format. I remember being pretty bored with the Painlands being so long in print this last time around, and I like the painlands quite a bit.

Don't get me wrong...I am eager for the enemy fetches to be reprinted- I have been holding on to a couple hundred bucks in store credit I have from getting out of MTGO that I ear-marked for that purpose like 18 months ago. I would like that to happen sooner rather than later, but I also understand that my wants or play needs are not always the same as what drives game popularity. I am a reasonable adult so I have no ill will towards WotC for continuing to do what has worked for so long in order to protect the longevity of the game.

Quote from Colt47 »

For lands that see use in every major deck there really isn't a point to NOT printing them to make them accessible.

There is a point- scarcity drives up demand. Psychologically is feeds the aspirational part of our human nature, whether we are conscious of it or not. Corporations know that the demand that is driven up by scarcity gives them greater benefit than making luxury goods cheap enough and easy enough for anyone to be a part.

Quote from johnjust »

Damn. This problem could be easily solved if KMC would just make more colors...

Not sure if I made this clear, but I was comparing the standard glossy finish of both KMC and DS.

Personally I put a higher value on Modern shocks and fetches than their monetary value would suggest, because I have yet to own a single one that I have not needed in a given year of deck tweaking and brewing. If I traded my Marsh Flats the first time I was going through a spell of not using them I would have been sorry a few months later when I did need them.

One thought that occurred to me is if this person is a good enough friend (and they take as good care of their cards as you do) is to trade them with a verbal promise that if your friend ever wants to trade them off they give you first crack at the trade. You would probably want to offer the same insurance for the chalices to be fair, though either instance wouldn't necessarily be for the same cards. This way you both get to make use of cards that you are not using, but you also get a chance to get Mistys back later down the line. The things you (both) would need to consider is:

1. If your friend was using all of their Mistys when you are interested in building with them again you would be out of luck.
2. Your friend would be free to trade them to you later their future value (whatever that may be).
3. If this person is more casual friend, like a buddy you see at the card shop regularly but don't hang outside of that, then this is probably not a great idea.
4. This may just generally be a bad idea, as it only occurred to me ten minutes ago and I have not really thought much about it.

Quote from johnjust »

Yellow Dragon Shields - I very much prefer the matte finish (regular Dragon Shields are durable and all, but they can't hold a candle to Hyper Mattes in terms of shuffle feel), but these may be one of my best/only options for decent yellow sleeves. How opaque are the backs? They seem pretty solid, but I was just curious, since the Ultra Pros are very easy to see through, and that's something I'd like to avoid.

I have not used yellow, but I was sorting some sleeves and found that both Dragon Shields and KMC have a teal (not turquoise) color that is almost identical for me (slight color blindness), but when mixed in a deck some appeared darker than others. Both were in the same condition, and I found that the only way I could tell the difference for sure was by holding them up to the light. DS were far more translucent (I compared to other dark colors that I knew were DS), which is what caused DS to look different with cards in them. Teal is a dark enough color that I have never feared a double-faced card would show through DS, but yellow would concern me. I have a couple of random yellow sleeves that I have acquired through singles on Puca Trade, and while I don't know the brand of the glossy ones I have they are pretty dang translucent.

Take that for what it's worth.

Quote from fghtffyrdmns »

I'm thinking of building the WB Eldrazi and Taxes deck and have all the pieces besides the eldrazi but am in no hurry. With the recent ban is now the time to pick up Thought Knot Seers, Reality Smashers, Wasteland Stranglers and Eldrazi Displacers? Will their value ever go up from here down the road?

It would take another format breaking/defining deck using them to get the price back up, and I don't see that happening. Standard puts too many rares in play due to chase mythics. I doubt they will be going down significantly anytime soon either, though, so buy at your leisure.

Quote from xxhellfirexx3 »

AV prices tell me: time to print modern masters every year wizards! so this format doesnt turn into legacy prices one day?

Who's to say the price is wrong? Lots of people are currently telling retailers that AV is worth $43, so why should it be cheaper? For me it is too expensive, but for enough people it is a good value. Who am I to say I'm right and they're wrong?