Regardless if the deck is good or not, with your manabase you can add 4 Misty Rainforest and 4 Verdant Catacombs for Consistency. The deck looks super cool and like it could do work. How has it been testing?
Took this deck to a fair finish at PTQ Lincoln today. I fell outside of the top 16, but my worst match ups were infect, jund, and I lost to Gifts Control for the sheer lack of prep for it.
I don't think loam and shaman are that anti synergistic. You can dredge stuff and then exile to get the same effect if you've already cleared out their yard.
Yeah, I agree with this. If anything I think that Life from the Loam helps feed Deathrite Shaman. If you are on the Raven's Crime plan (or mode), I'm not sure that you would want to be using shaman's first ability anyway. It's all situational, but Loam helps Shaman more than hurts.
Thanks for answering my questions Shane. Your build is awesome. ( your first post wasn't up when I began writing) Be sure to let us know where you get your analysis report published. I think a lot of us would really like to read it.
Alright then, adding the snow swamp helped the mana issue i was having ^^" but onto my thoughts.
1. Is it just me, or is abrupt decay a complete House here. It was mentioned in his daily mtg deck tech that he wished he MD the 3rd decay, and flipped the verdict to a damnation, (personally i think wrath of god would be better over 2 damnation but he's the pro.)
2. Eternal witness does the deck want this card? Gifts piles become more consistant tutors, but the list is pretty tight.
3. When to dredge.
Darkblast and life from the loam are crazy, nobody is arguing that, but i had a hard time figuring out if i wanted to dredge or not. It's pretty situational, i mean if hey have a shaman or a confidant it's pretty obvious to dredge the blast, and if you have a veil on board with fetches or tech edge in the grave, the +1 for lily can turn into a worse situation for the opponant thanks to life from the loam,
But if you are just setting up, is it worth it to dredge in hopes of hitting loam/crime/edge or rites? I guess i wanna see the deck played by pros more. With some collective thinking i think this deck could really nail solid results
This deck is SICK. REDICULOUSLY sick. I took the Snow Covered Swamp from the showing in the GP and replaced with the Thoughtsieze in the Sideboard. I then changed the sideboard spot with an Inquisiton of Kozilek.
I've only play tested a little bit, but the things I've already tried just leave my opponants confused every time. I can't wait to play this more.
Bob's also an excellent card, but I question the wisdom of playing 4 bobs while not being able to present a clock as well as jund and having 6 4s and 5 3s. If I played esper control I'd lean more towards a squawks+souls build like the caw lists that had a couple 4-0 showings before RTR.
The other thing is that We have a rather high mana curve, so I think 3 bobs is probably the right play.
Esper Charm vs Thirst For knowledge probably depends the most on how many snapcasters you run. Which I think 3 could be the right number. (Deathrite shaman can hurt pretty bad)
I also think Restoration Angel should maybe be 3 and not 4. We don't have as much stuff to abuse her with in this build.
However, I also think Clique should be a 3 of. We will want it every game, and it can provide us with some card selection, while also manipulating our opponant, which I think this type of build would want to do.
I like Barbado's Build, and I will probably play around with it to see how good it plays.
Gifts Package
Mana Leak Package
More Manlands (Lands as a kill condition)
Wraths/Mass Removal
Retrace Packages (Not as good w/o loam, but raven's crime and Oona's grace can be sickeningly good at times)
I am not sure tho, as the guy you quote says, how IoK and Thoughtseize give us CA
Yeah, its not card advantage, but it is a valid form of disruption, which we have plenty of, but is more pro-active than reactive. Not to mention lookin at the opponant's hand is HUGE for a control player.
Overall the deck works sometimes, and not others. I find it has inconsistencies with itself, let alone what happens against the meta as a whole. Adding aggressive options doesn't seem to be the right direction, as if you want to do that sort of thing, there are many better decks to choose from.
At this point, I think of Jund as being the best control deck in the meta. It has better tools for it than we do.
This is sincerely the truth. After testing Sajilik's deck out and looking around at other decks, I feel like we should almost take a new outlook on this deck in general, or else we are making a Tempo-Control that shifts from one side to the other depending on the matchup.
I understand that Preordain and Ponder are dead, and will never come back, but I feel that we need card selection, I think The black splash is nearly a necessity at this point.
Control the opponant's plays with virtual and actual card advantage, win with man-lands. I understand that it's not U/W restoration anymore, but its our only shot at a real 'control deck'. If this isn't where the deck is headed, we will need a UW midrange subforum :/
Don't worry my friend City of Brass is getting new art in Modern Masters next june.
I must have mixed up articles. I thought the new City of Brass art was in the Commanders Arsenal article. Now that I check, it WAS in the Modern Masters one. My mistake.
also, I'm sad there is no Top here :< but Library will do. I play top in almost every EDH deck.
Could the left half of this card be the Glimpse of Nature reprint that Modern Elf Combo needed to become a Tier 2-1 deck again?
Could this card be decent in Prime Speaker Bant for Standard?
Thoughts?
Set up for my question.
You cast the card with cipher, allowing it to enter the graveyard.
Cast Snapcaster Mage, giving card with cipher flashback.
Cast card with Cipher for flashback cost. (no responses)
DOES WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING SCENARIOS HAPPEN (or neither):
1) Card with cipher's resolves, Cipher ability exiles it, and encoding happens (to our new Snapcaster Mage) - Card is Exiled
2) Card with cipher's resolves, Flashback ability exiles it - Card is Exiled
When asking about preview cards, you must link to the card image on wizards.com. Here is Whispering Madness. -Carsten
Yeah, I agree with this. If anything I think that Life from the Loam helps feed Deathrite Shaman. If you are on the Raven's Crime plan (or mode), I'm not sure that you would want to be using shaman's first ability anyway. It's all situational, but Loam helps Shaman more than hurts.
1. Is it just me, or is abrupt decay a complete House here. It was mentioned in his daily mtg deck tech that he wished he MD the 3rd decay, and flipped the verdict to a damnation, (personally i think wrath of god would be better over 2 damnation but he's the pro.)
2. Eternal witness does the deck want this card? Gifts piles become more consistant tutors, but the list is pretty tight.
3. When to dredge.
Darkblast and life from the loam are crazy, nobody is arguing that, but i had a hard time figuring out if i wanted to dredge or not. It's pretty situational, i mean if hey have a shaman or a confidant it's pretty obvious to dredge the blast, and if you have a veil on board with fetches or tech edge in the grave, the +1 for lily can turn into a worse situation for the opponant thanks to life from the loam,
But if you are just setting up, is it worth it to dredge in hopes of hitting loam/crime/edge or rites? I guess i wanna see the deck played by pros more. With some collective thinking i think this deck could really nail solid results
I've only play tested a little bit, but the things I've already tried just leave my opponants confused every time. I can't wait to play this more.
The other thing is that We have a rather high mana curve, so I think 3 bobs is probably the right play.
Esper Charm vs Thirst For knowledge probably depends the most on how many snapcasters you run. Which I think 3 could be the right number. (Deathrite shaman can hurt pretty bad)
I also think Restoration Angel should maybe be 3 and not 4. We don't have as much stuff to abuse her with in this build.
However, I also think Clique should be a 3 of. We will want it every game, and it can provide us with some card selection, while also manipulating our opponant, which I think this type of build would want to do.
I like Barbado's Build, and I will probably play around with it to see how good it plays.
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
1 Godless shrine
2 Creeping Tar pit
2 Celestial Colonade
3 Darkslick Shores
3 Seachrome Coast
2 Tectonic Edge
If I had to test an Esper Control Manabase, I would start with this and then edit from there.
I would also start with this as a core for the MD. Working out definitive Finishers for later.
3 Dark Confidant
4 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Remand
2 Cryptic Command
4 Thirst For Knowledge
Possible Additions / edits to include:
Gifts Package
Mana Leak Package
More Manlands (Lands as a kill condition)
Wraths/Mass Removal
Retrace Packages (Not as good w/o loam, but raven's crime and Oona's grace can be sickeningly good at times)
just my 2 pennies.
Yeah, its not card advantage, but it is a valid form of disruption, which we have plenty of, but is more pro-active than reactive. Not to mention lookin at the opponant's hand is HUGE for a control player.
This is sincerely the truth. After testing Sajilik's deck out and looking around at other decks, I feel like we should almost take a new outlook on this deck in general, or else we are making a Tempo-Control that shifts from one side to the other depending on the matchup.
I understand that Preordain and Ponder are dead, and will never come back, but I feel that we need card selection, I think The black splash is nearly a necessity at this point.
Thoughtsieze, Inquisition of Kozilek, Liliana of the Veil, Dark Confidant all provide wicked card advantage, and it's not like we don't have the ability to have proper mana fixing.
Control the opponant's plays with virtual and actual card advantage, win with man-lands. I understand that it's not U/W restoration anymore, but its our only shot at a real 'control deck'. If this isn't where the deck is headed, we will need a UW midrange subforum :/
I must have mixed up articles. I thought the new City of Brass art was in the Commanders Arsenal article. Now that I check, it WAS in the Modern Masters one. My mistake.
also, I'm sad there is no Top here :< but Library will do. I play top in almost every EDH deck.
No city of brass makes me sad :< my cube was excited. Might get 1. Not sure yet.