The Shadow of Doubt is just a miser tempo play against most decks. It does work against Tron and Amulet Bloom (two decks that I struggle against) and at least it cycles. I'll be honest, I do want to see if I can nail any Bloom players with it like Chapin did at the GP.
Victim of Night is facing off against Go for the Throat in this deck and I went with Victim because it isn't dead against affinity. Dismember can kill what Victim doesn't. I'd like to tune the deck so that it has fewer terrible matchups, and Victim lets us interact a bit better in the Affinity games.
The Fetchland+shock land mana base is a holdover from when the deck was supporting Tasigur or Murderous Cut or Dig through Time. It worked to that end, though was not without issues. I can switch to Secluded Glen easily (though I don't like River of Tears, I just found it unreliable too often), but I don't think I have time to test it and get used to it. I've been playing this mana base (or close to it) since Khans was released, so I've gotten used to interactions and such.
I also don't like having too many ETB tapped lands, they tend to clog up and slow things down if multiple get drawn early.
The Mana Leaks are a replacement for the Remands I used to play. I think Mana Leak is a little less dead than Remand. I honestly haven't had time to really grind with this deck, so I don't know how well (or poorly) they really perform. What do you suggest swapping for the third Tar-Pit?
Here's the list that I've been playing (give or take a few small changes) for the last few months. I've done fairly well, though there are some tough matchups. Infect and Twin are easily my best Tier 1 matches, but it's not a huge edge, maybe 60%-40% in my favor. Burn and Junk/Jund are the roughest, hence the Basilisk Collar/Elixir of Immortality/Trinket Mage sideboard package. If I were to make a change, I'd want to try an squeeze in a Pendlehaven
What do you guys think?
Hey,
Thanks for posting your list! And I can immediately see why your list fails to function against burn decks. Although there are some cards that really benefit you in the matchup (3x Inquisition, 2x Liliana, 1x Batterskull), some cards are really awkward (Remand, Fetches, 4 Shocks). In addition, lack of Mana Leak seems to dig holes in your anti-twin plan as well.
Twin should be a 70% matchups, just like Infect, while burn should be more than 55%. Affinity should be a near 50% match, while abzan is the hard one.
There is an (undeserved?) tendency to remove mana leak from control decklists, but against Twin and Burn the card is golden actually, while remand sucks against both of them.
I would like to see a triplet of mana leaks and a single snapcaster mage, to create extra value, or another land to compensate for the card draw.
The trinket mage is interesting, but I would add engineered explosives and grafdigger's cage to his fetchable-targets.
Also, your victim of nights and your manabase feel incompatible, but that might just be me. A Sunken Ruins would be nice.
I've always found Faeries to be lacking in card draw, which is why I've been playing Remand over Mana Leak. I think they both have their merits, as well as their problems, but I prefer Remand for the aforementioned reason.
Victim of Night hasn't been as bad mana wise as I had thought. I used to play two Murderous Cut instead, but that was always just too slow. I figured Victim would be better than Go Goethe Throat, seeing as it isn't just dead against Affinity and Tron. I figured that, for basically 'kill anything' removal, a little risk was worth it. My mana base isn't as painful as one would think. It's not as bad as the 3+ color decks, but it's very consistent and does the job.
I'm curious what your changes would look like in this deck. Could you provide an 'improved' list?
Here's the list that I've been playing (give or take a few small changes) for the last few months. I've done fairly well, though there are some tough matchups. Infect and Twin are easily my best Tier 1 matches, but it's not a huge edge, maybe 60%-40% in my favor. Burn and Junk/Jund are the roughest, hence the Basilisk Collar/Elixir of Immortality/Trinket Mage sideboard package. If I were to make a change, I'd want to try an squeeze in a Pendlehaven
All of the new ally-color Elder Dragons of DTK are getting a command, with the UW Ojutai's Command being the first spoiled; and that means a UB one for Silumgar's Command. Again, I expect to be disappointed, but can't stop myself from being hyped in the mean time.
My thinking is; will it be as good as Cryptic Command? If not, wouldn't Cryptic just be better in the deck?
Now let's just wait and see if my questions get answered
Has anyone considered running a Thirst for Knowledge or two? I've found the the deck would benefit from instant speed 'draw x cards' sort of spells, and you can discard excess Bitterblossoms or lands to fuel any delve spells. I even thought of Careful Consideration or Compulsive Research, but costing 4 (and being better at sorcery speed), or being a sorcery are large downsides. Too bad Blue Sun's Zenith is too risky to cast, since it's such a juicy Remand or Mana Leak target.
I've had a fair amount of success against burn when I sideboard in all the extra counterspells, like Countersquall, Spell Pierce, and Negate. My only problem was Murderous Cut was too slow, along with Dismember being too painful. This is why I've moved Victim of Night into the main deck (it kills everything I need dead, and the BB cost isn't actually a big deal in my deck), and decided to sideboard Disfigure. As long as you can blunt the assault until they're out of cards, you can beat burn with anything.
Well my usual meta at my local shop is a varied mix of everything. Sometimes every archetype is there, other times you face Splinter Twin every round. Yesterday wasn't representative of the local meta. I honestly expected more Abzan, which is why I put the Victim of Nights in the sideboard, since they kill everything in that deck. I also thought I'd play against the major decks, but I ended up getting all the rough matches.
Wins;
2-0 against WB Tokens. The games weren't really noteworthy, the typical Bitterblossom plus counterspells lock. He did resolve a pair of Stain the Mind against me, taking my 2 sideboarded in Damnations, and the 3 Mistbind Cliques.
2-1 against Infect. Game one he beats me with normal damage, then game two I establish a Bitterblossom and Liliana lock, chump blocking his guys and keeping him off pump spells. Game three was a close affair. He started on 3 Noble Hierarchs and Spellskite. I play my own, and he slows down, trying to deal normal damage. He attacks his 3/7 Spellskite into mine, I block, and he casts Become Immense. I Remand it, then he tries again. It resolves, then I pay two life (going to 14 with 0 poison), he pays 2 (going to 13) to get it back. After considering just doing that a few more times, I Victim of Night his Spellskite since he tapped out to recast Become Immense. I untap, draw Mistbind Clique, and pass, Mistbind-ing in his upkeep, championing a Mutavault. He then taps his Heirarchs to drop Blighted Agent. Now I've got o out race the soon to be 4/4 Agent. I end up winning by a turn, all because of the two life from the Spellskite war.
Losses;
0-2 against Burn. This was the typical matchup. I kept a good hand for any other deck, then get wrecked by a flurry of burn and Eidolon triggers. Game two was slower, but an unanswered Goblin Guide and Grim Lavamancer slowly ground my life total down.
0-2 against Infect (weird homebrew list). This match was horrible for me. Bloodrush cannot be countered by any of my spells, nor can Spellskite steal it. Game one was over quick, and after getting overly aggressive with Mutavault (which tapped me too low to Murderous Cut), so was game two.
2-1 against Death's Shadow.dec. Game one, my opponent flooded pretty hard, so I was able to hit hard with Faerie tokens, even through Phyrexian Unlife. Game two, he comboed off before I drew the right counter, and Flung a giant Death's Shadow at my dome. Game three, I tried to Vendilion Clique in his draw step, thinking I could Dispel his Ad Nauseam, but he had the Pact of Negation to win the game.
0-2 against Burn (a different, more creature based version). Game one, I was just a little too slow, and drew too little lands. Game two, I drew both my Dispels, but those couldn't counter multiple Goblin Grenades (fueled by a Goblin Rabblemaster that lived because my removal was used on Eidolon), Rift Bolts, and Lava Spikes.
Proposed changes:
Move Victim of Night to the mainboard where Murderous Cut is, put Disfigure into the sideboard. -1 Thoughtseize, +1 Inquisition if Kozilek.
Murderous Cut was almost always just a little bit slow. It was great being able to shoot something for one mana, but it didn't get fueled consistently enough to be reliable.
I'm tweaking the discard to shore up a tad bit for Burn.
Well, I'm 1-2, beating W/B tokens, losing to burn and a bloodrush infect deck (the infect deck was due to a massive misplay). The deck still seems really good, I just have to play better
I took some of your thoughts and tweaked my sideboard.
I think Victim might be just as good as Disfigure vs Burn. Sure it's an extra mana, but it kills Swiftspear no matter what, and either way, you still take damage from Eidolon. The Spell Pierces were in just for control matches, but it was always the weakest of my options.
(Also, I need some custom Faerie-Riding-A-Panzer tokens for when I equip Batterskull.)
Burn is hard, but I sideboard the spellskites and all the counters, take out 2 Bitterblossom, and some four drops, then try and weather the storm until they are out of cards or I hit Batterskull. I've had occasional mana troubles, but it's more getting color screwed than land screwed. Sometimes I do consider a 25th land, but all in all I think it's fine. You just have to be very disciplined on what lands you fetch up. Sometimes you get punished for the turn 1 fetch up Swamp to Thoughtseize. The other thing to consider is mulliganing hands with 2 or less lands, unless you have multiple discard spells/Remands/Bitterblossom+protection.
Victim of Night is facing off against Go for the Throat in this deck and I went with Victim because it isn't dead against affinity. Dismember can kill what Victim doesn't. I'd like to tune the deck so that it has fewer terrible matchups, and Victim lets us interact a bit better in the Affinity games.
The Fetchland+shock land mana base is a holdover from when the deck was supporting Tasigur or Murderous Cut or Dig through Time. It worked to that end, though was not without issues. I can switch to Secluded Glen easily (though I don't like River of Tears, I just found it unreliable too often), but I don't think I have time to test it and get used to it. I've been playing this mana base (or close to it) since Khans was released, so I've gotten used to interactions and such.
I also don't like having too many ETB tapped lands, they tend to clog up and slow things down if multiple get drawn early.
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Mistbind Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
Artifacts (1)
1 Batterskull
Enchantments (4)
4 Bitterblossom
Spells (17)
4 Mana Leak
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Cryptic Command
2 Thoughtseize
2 Dismember
2 Victim of Night
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (24)
5 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Mutavault
4 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Swamp
2 Annul
2 Spell Snare
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Disfigure
2 Fulminator Mage (I may play Spreading Seas in this slot)
1 Dispel
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Spellskite
1 Countersquall
This is the list I'm almost assuredly taking to the local PPTQ. What are your thoughts?
I've always found Faeries to be lacking in card draw, which is why I've been playing Remand over Mana Leak. I think they both have their merits, as well as their problems, but I prefer Remand for the aforementioned reason.
Victim of Night hasn't been as bad mana wise as I had thought. I used to play two Murderous Cut instead, but that was always just too slow. I figured Victim would be better than Go Goethe Throat, seeing as it isn't just dead against Affinity and Tron. I figured that, for basically 'kill anything' removal, a little risk was worth it. My mana base isn't as painful as one would think. It's not as bad as the 3+ color decks, but it's very consistent and does the job.
I'm curious what your changes would look like in this deck. Could you provide an 'improved' list?
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Mistbind Clique
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Artifacts (1)
1 Batterskull
Enchantments (4)
4 Bitterblossom
Spells (19)
4 Remand
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Cryptic Command
2 Thoughtseize
2 Dismember
2 Spell Snare
2 Victim of Night
1 Smother
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (24)
5 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Mutavault
4 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Swamp
2 Trinket Mage
2 Countersquall
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Disfigure
1 Dispel
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Damnation
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Spellskite
1 Elixir of Immortality
Here's the list that I've been playing (give or take a few small changes) for the last few months. I've done fairly well, though there are some tough matchups. Infect and Twin are easily my best Tier 1 matches, but it's not a huge edge, maybe 60%-40% in my favor. Burn and Junk/Jund are the roughest, hence the Basilisk Collar/Elixir of Immortality/Trinket Mage sideboard package. If I were to make a change, I'd want to try an squeeze in a Pendlehaven
What do you guys think?
My thinking is; will it be as good as Cryptic Command? If not, wouldn't Cryptic just be better in the deck?
Now let's just wait and see if my questions get answered
Finished 2-4 Drop
Wins;
2-0 against WB Tokens. The games weren't really noteworthy, the typical Bitterblossom plus counterspells lock. He did resolve a pair of Stain the Mind against me, taking my 2 sideboarded in Damnations, and the 3 Mistbind Cliques.
2-1 against Infect. Game one he beats me with normal damage, then game two I establish a Bitterblossom and Liliana lock, chump blocking his guys and keeping him off pump spells. Game three was a close affair. He started on 3 Noble Hierarchs and Spellskite. I play my own, and he slows down, trying to deal normal damage. He attacks his 3/7 Spellskite into mine, I block, and he casts Become Immense. I Remand it, then he tries again. It resolves, then I pay two life (going to 14 with 0 poison), he pays 2 (going to 13) to get it back. After considering just doing that a few more times, I Victim of Night his Spellskite since he tapped out to recast Become Immense. I untap, draw Mistbind Clique, and pass, Mistbind-ing in his upkeep, championing a Mutavault. He then taps his Heirarchs to drop Blighted Agent. Now I've got o out race the soon to be 4/4 Agent. I end up winning by a turn, all because of the two life from the Spellskite war.
Losses;
0-2 against Burn. This was the typical matchup. I kept a good hand for any other deck, then get wrecked by a flurry of burn and Eidolon triggers. Game two was slower, but an unanswered Goblin Guide and Grim Lavamancer slowly ground my life total down.
0-2 against Infect (weird homebrew list). This match was horrible for me. Bloodrush cannot be countered by any of my spells, nor can Spellskite steal it. Game one was over quick, and after getting overly aggressive with Mutavault (which tapped me too low to Murderous Cut), so was game two.
2-1 against Death's Shadow.dec. Game one, my opponent flooded pretty hard, so I was able to hit hard with Faerie tokens, even through Phyrexian Unlife. Game two, he comboed off before I drew the right counter, and Flung a giant Death's Shadow at my dome. Game three, I tried to Vendilion Clique in his draw step, thinking I could Dispel his Ad Nauseam, but he had the Pact of Negation to win the game.
0-2 against Burn (a different, more creature based version). Game one, I was just a little too slow, and drew too little lands. Game two, I drew both my Dispels, but those couldn't counter multiple Goblin Grenades (fueled by a Goblin Rabblemaster that lived because my removal was used on Eidolon), Rift Bolts, and Lava Spikes.
Proposed changes:
Move Victim of Night to the mainboard where Murderous Cut is, put Disfigure into the sideboard. -1 Thoughtseize, +1 Inquisition if Kozilek.
Murderous Cut was almost always just a little bit slow. It was great being able to shoot something for one mana, but it didn't get fueled consistently enough to be reliable.
I'm tweaking the discard to shore up a tad bit for Burn.
2 Dispel
2 Countersquall
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Spellskite
2 Damnation
2 Victim of Night
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
I took some of your thoughts and tweaked my sideboard.
I think Victim might be just as good as Disfigure vs Burn. Sure it's an extra mana, but it kills Swiftspear no matter what, and either way, you still take damage from Eidolon. The Spell Pierces were in just for control matches, but it was always the weakest of my options.
(Also, I need some custom Faerie-Riding-A-Panzer tokens for when I equip Batterskull.)