Relentless Rats has always been a muse of mine, so I've spent a lot of time thinking about how to best play it in EDH. The biggest issue RR faces are boardwipes. You can't have giant rats if they're dead. There's two ways we can prevent that; Counterspell and Unearth effects. Like the OP and many others have mentioned Bloodbond March is pretty much running just green for. Luckily, green is still pretty good on its own and gives us access to a bunch of other nice cards. If we go Counterspell, we need to go with a BUG general. If we go Unearth, we can stick with BG or splash W.
The very best general for the Counterspell plan, as many have suggested, is Damia, Sage of Stone. She draws you rats and counterspells as you play them. What's not to like? Arguably, this is the best strategy for Relentless Rats.
The last time I checked, the best general for the Unearth plan is Karador, Ghost Chieftain. The reason is because the three colors in MtG that have access to putting things from the Graveyard to the Battlefield are Black, Green, and White. Additionally, Karador also fuels this plan and combos nicely with Bloodbond March. Finally, playing this strategy means that you can run your own boardwipes (as Black and White are so good at that) without worrying about your rats also dying. I'd argue that this is a more "fun" strategy and is probably the second best. Here's a decklist I constructed a little while ago, so I apologize if it's slightly dated and not entirely competitive.
Red Tape - n obstructive official routine or procedure; time-consuming bureaucracy
Since this is such a fun part of life, I thought I'd bring a little bit of it to EDH. The deck is supposed to play similarly to a Stax deck, but is never actually supposed to lock the opponents out of the game. I want to run just enough removal and counters to force things through when I need to, but other than that, I want opponents to play what they want. I want to make it just hard enough to give them hope to keep playing, but make it brutally painful to get there. The only way for me to fairly win then would be through a card that supports this bureaucracy; Azor's Elocutors.
Obviously the decks not done, so I need some help. Am I missing any cards that put limitations on when and what actions players can take, or did I get the majority of them? Again, I want them to be able to resolve a boardwipe and free themselves, I just want to make it obnoxious to do so. I'm not looking for friends with this deck, so tell me what I could add to grind your gears. Additionally, I don't really want to add very many dig cards or tutors. I'm not trying to combo lock players out every game, I just want to punish players if they ignore my boardstate. I also need help on the mana base. Because of the limitations on what gets untapped, I want to add lands that give me the most value when I want to use them. Finally, I want to add cards that help me navigate my own restrictions. Things like Gilded Lotus and Cloud Key, though I am trying to stay away from things with activated abilities.
Last thing, I have a few cards I'm considering but feel they might be too oppressive. I'd like to know your thoughts. I also want to know if anything I'm playing seems too oppressive and needs to be cut. Here are the cards I might add:
Again, I'm not trying to stop people from casting things completely, just trying to make it really hard. Thanks for any suggestions, critiques and comments. I'm looking forwards to your replies.
Interesting list. The only problem I see is that you have 6 Grand Architects, but I'm sure that's a typo and you meant to include some Chief Engineers.
What would happen in the mirror match? Could you name Runed Halo with your Runed Halo to stop the Runed Halo from working? I think this is a pretty big flaw in the deck. (I guess Meddling Mage can work too....)
Lol, didn't really think about the mirror. I guess I'd just board out most my noncreature name cards and board in Torpor Orb and go the beatdown route.
Ah. Forgot about that interaction. Yeah, Remand is definitely going in for Mana Leak. I'm also cutting two Probes for two Peeks because instant speed is so good in this deck.
I'm going to try to do some more testing and figure out what Name Game's good and bad matchups are. I'm not very good at theorycrafting, so anyone got any advice on that?
Just a guess buy Affinity is bad because they drop their hands on turn 1-2 before you can play anything. You'll never name a card other than Etched Champion maybe.
Burn is bad because they have like 6 different "Lightning Bolts." Good luck trying to name them all. The same goes for Infect, as it is a combination of how Burn and Affinity works.
Boggles will be bad because your removal won't work. You can get some Auras but you will be beat down by not contesting them.
Small Zoo? Basically the deck is weak to Aggro I think. Control is probably pretty good, and Midrange is good but you'll have to fight and have a slight upperhand in some cases.
I think that you should include one copy of Pili-pala and some Fabricates. They would give you some more toolboxy feel to the deck and have an infinat combo. There must be something that you could be doing with all of that mana as well.
I think that paying multiple Myr Battlespheres is the way to go because of the convoke. They will be better in the long run compared to a Wurmcoil and sorts. By dropping two you can essentially 1-2 shot the opponent.
Another card that has been brought up in every Grand Archatect thread ever is Myr Superion. This deck is oozing with ways to cast it so I felt that it would be worth mentioning.
Like I said, Pili is really bad here. Sure, the one of might work, but we're devoting at least 5, if not more, to a combo that doesn't really synergize with the rest of our deck. As for being "toolboxy", what tools do you plan on including that'd make it worth it?
I'm all for including Myr Battlesphere but I don't think it's better than Wurmcoil. Just like this deck, Urzatron decks have access to 7 mana turn 3 but they play Wurmcoil over Battlesphere. Imagine why that might be. Overall, Wurmcoil is far better value than the sphere. Also, our 7 mana is pretty unreliable since it's coming from creatures and there is a plethera of ways they can die. The faster and more reliably we can play things, the better.
Superion might be worth playing now that we have a second reliable way to cast it.
Back during Scars-Innistrad standard a friend of mine had a Grand Architect "mill" deck which ran the proverbial T3 Grand Architect into Wurmcoil Engine plus Trepanation Blade + SoB&M for extra hurt (Invisible Stalker is still broken btw).
I think keeping it rather conservative is the way to go. I really want to go T2 Chief Engineer into Myr Superion but it's just not good enough for Modern... but this might be:
Vedalken Certarch is on-theme, but maybe something as lowly as Kraken Hatchling is all the deck needs to slow down the boardstate. I like the Light & Shadow here as it recurs Grand Architect or Chief Engineer for the long game and weenie beat down is always an option. Don't need the full 8x Fetches for just Sage of Epityr, but might go to 8x if I want to splash White or Black for sideboard tech. It's possible Phyrexian Metamorph deserves a slot or two, but I think more fat and more card draw (Thirst) comes before that.
I like this list quite a bit. Also, I'd play Judge's Familiar over Certarch simply because Metalcraft is unreliable and a free counterspell can help out in a pinch. In fact, we can tap the bird for mana to cast something, and still use it for counter backup.
Kraken hatchling is my play in my casual deck it replaced the Certarch, but having early blockers isn't really out biggest concern, I'd prefer the judge's familar.
I am finding it hard to not want to play Kira, great glass-spinner and Master of waves just so many tokens for dumping in artifacts, but at that point I am basically playing an aggro deck.
For counterspells I'd want to use mana leak, remand seems ok but I don't think we are aggressive enough, swan song actually seems like great tech.. we can counter our own spells for a blue bird. just realised we don't have an enchantments instants or sorceries haha
Meloku the clouded mirror... this seems.. interesting.... blue tokens deck? mill with Hedron crab? I am probably too deep now... so many options so little space in the deck.
Sure, Kira and MoW are cool, but they're a little too slow for Modern unless we're playing control or using MoW as a finisher. Also, if we did play them for their tokens, what would we use all that mana for. If we're running giant artifacts in our deck, I'm afraid that they'll be dead unless we get a good MoW cast off.
I know it takes 3 cards over 2 turns to replace Heartless Summoning, but at least there are two methods to get the same result.
That would be the Magical Christmas Land hand.
Haha, of course it is. I just wanted to make the point that we are able to have Heartless Summonings 5-8 in the form of this janky combo. More of a proof than a playable strategy.
Another card that might be worth looking into is Phyrexian Metamorph. It can be Meddling Mages when we're ahead and their best permanent when we're behind.
I'll start thinking of how matchups might play out, but like you, I'm not very great at that sort of thing.
Might as well play tron to have a second way of getting big mana.
I've tried to play test this and I'm not a big fan. Often times you get mana screwed with 1 island and 2 of the Urza lands on the board and you can't play your Grand Architect. I feel like throwing in the Urza lands splits our strategy instead of synergizing. If you were really keen on playing it, I'd maybe only run 2 of each land max and really focus on Expedition Map and recursion to tutor them all out. Even then I fell like it's pretty weak. However, the Mindslaver lock feels like a solid finisher, especially when we're running a bunch of creatures that can hit them turn after turn.
I think Hearless Summoning is something I'd like to avoid for its drawback cost, but get some extra mana with Talisman of Dominance instead. Pili-Pala is defenitely something to include, since it's cheap and adds an option of infinite mana combo. I would also consider running a more expensive finisher - Ulamog.
Like I said in the OP, Pili-Pala just doesn't seem good enough to include. At best, it's an infinite mana engine that needs another card as a wincon. At worst, Pili is a completely dead draw. If we don't devote entirely to the combo, it's not worth running. However, the combo itself is pretty weak. Sure, it can win by turn 3, but that's if you have perfect mana and all the card you need. Pili is difficult to tutor for at 2 mana, Grand Architect can't be tutored for, it needs three cards to win, and there are only 4 of each combo piece in the deck (unlike Twin which runs 8 of each piece). You're devoting a lot of slots to a subpar combo if you run Pili. Heartless Summoning might look bad with it's -1/-1, but what 1/1s are you going to run that it effects? The only real downsides are that you don't really want more than 1, so any extras you draw are dead. And it's not really worth splashing an entire other color for. However, it does give you access to the Myr Retriever combo for infinite storm/graveyard triggers, which is cool. While it's a 4 card combo, all of its pieces aren't really ever dead. Myr Retrievers synergize pretty well as we can play Grand Architect turn 3 and retrieve a killed Etherium Sculptor or other artifact later in the game (like Wurmcoil Engine for more shenanigans). Heartless acts as Grand Architects 5-8. And the kill part of the combo is either Falkenrath Noble, who is an ok creature, or Bitter Ordeal/Grapeshot, which are arguably dead but can shine in certain matchups like Storm or Pod. Talisman doesn't really seem that great here, and like I said in the OP, Chief Engineer makes a perfect replacement for Heartless, though we do drop the combo (which we really didn't care too much about, but it's nice we had the option). Ulamog might seem like a good finisher, but he's too expensive to realistically consider. Our goal should be the 5-7 CMC finishers that we can hit on our explosive turn 3. If we wait longer than that, we run the risk of having all our creature ramp die to Anger of the Gods, Supreme Verdict, Damnation, and Wrath of God, among other things. Plus, we have great finishers in the forms of Wurmcoil Engine, Batterskull, Steel Hellkite, Mindslaver, Myr Battlesphere, and Platinum Angel.
I feel like it's a bit too weak to removal and boardwipes as well as the late game. However, it might not be a bad idea to run Cavern of Souls since we're running 3 different Veldalkens in blue and most everything else is colorless.
Totally forgot about Battlesphere till you mentioned it. This is a brutal turn 3 that can be played even if you swap Chief Engineer and Grand Architect. Thanks for mentioning it.
In fact the only in-theme playable creature for this deck is Vedalken Certarch, altough pretty weaksauce taken alone. Anyways, he is indeed necessary to enable quick chains off Engineer to cast a cmc 2 artifact on turn two and to be used with Grand Architect on turn three to generate 6-7 mana for a fat artifact.
The 2-cmc artifact choices are either Talismans and/or Spellskite or Lightning Greaves. The latter is best suited for versions that attempt to top with Treasure Mage for Platinum Angel. An equipped Angel is hard to deal with, or at least requires most of the upper tier decks to lose serious amount of tempo and going through loops to get rid of it (think of Affinity who has no outs to such a situation unless you attack into a pumped flying blocker). If you add Spellskite to the equation, it gets nearly impossible to all this in time before you usually reach the Mindslaver point.
Topping with artifact fatties naturally calls Solemn Simulacrum too. The Grand Architect part meanwhile calls Phyrexian Metamorph who is your cmc3 blue artifact of choice that gets really better with both Architect and Etherium Sculptor, as well as being able to provide value like copying a Wurmcoil Engine, a Simulacrum, and a Platinum Angel if needed.
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The true problem of the deck lies in the setup.
All Vedalkens are pretty bad alone and they walk straight into Bolts and Anger of the Gods (an additional reason to play Spellskite and drop budget hopes :D). This deck needs ways to keep up the card advantage after a sweeper but the mana that the Vedalkens are able to produce puts constraints on which cards to pick.
If you want to push the deck into a more tribal-esque approach (and minimize the Treasure Mage plan), then yes, Brass Herald is a fine choice.
Six is the perfect cost to be played off Grand Architect and friends. The problem is that to maximize his Ringleader ability, you have pretty much to clog your deck with creatures the most possible and nothing else. This can give problems post-board. You don't have enough inner synergies and tribal punch to justify going exclusively Vedalken/Artificers, in my opinion. Take a look:
Vedalken Certarch;
Etherium Sculptor;
Chief Engineer;
Grand Architect.
That's 16 given you are playing the full set of each. There is Faerie mechanist for the cmc4 Artificer slot, but I found it a risky card and I'd try to avoid wiffing.
There is Vedalken Engineer on the cmc 2 spot, but it does what Chief Engineer does in a worse way (Engineer is indeed an upgrade of that Mirrodin card imo).
The blueprint of a tribal Artificer/Wiz/Vedalken list should be:
But this list is definitely too fair and doesn't do anything impressive. I'd rather eschew the tribal theme and try to go for Treasure Mage.
As you see, there are several choices to be made when considering which cards would enable the most consistent/explosive lines for a possible version of the deck.
I like them printing things to revive the Mirrodin nostalgia, the doubt I'm having is the resulting deck would be a worse version of Pod (midrange creature-based deck with synergies ending in a combo) that sucks hard from red sweepers, fast aggro decks and Twin (i.e. most of the format).
Btw: Treasure Mage is a Human Wizard. This creates tension with Vedalken Artificers when going for the tribal approach.
EDIT: After having seen that cmc 1 + cmc 2 + cmc 3 produces 7 mana with Sculptor, I'm sure that the main win-condition of choice should be Plat Angel indeed with the setup described above. Plat Angel protected only folds to Wrath of God and post-side Shatterstorm/Grudge. We might as well try to maximize that plan.
You bring up a lot of good points. I like the Platinum Angel plan, so I'll look into that for sure. However, if we go for the Plat Angel plan, I think it's less important to have the turn 1 creature out as we can't have Lightning Grieves and Platinum Angel on the board by turn 3 without leaving ourselves open to attack and tapped out or in a position where Lightning Grieves isn't important enough to be out on turn 3.
Anyway, thanks for all the input, I plan on updating the OP really soon. Between work and general business, I wasn't able to add as much as I'd have liked to the OP when I first wrote it.
Of the six "name" cards, it soon became clear that Meddling Mage was the best and Nevermore and Phyrexian Revoker were the worst. Runed Halo was also an automatic 4-of because it's so effective at stopping combo decks, and also hits Goyf and Lili as a bonus. After that, I ended up picking Declaration of Naught over Pithing Needle because of Declaration's versatility.
Resto is great in this deck. It serves as a finisher, protects Meddling Mage, and doesn't die to Bolt.
I'm a big fan of this list. I knew from the start Meddling was the powerhouse of this deck, just unsure about the other cards. I figured Revoker wasn't that great as it is just an easier to kill Needle. I can understand Nevermore getting dropped in favor of other things. For some reason it didn't click that Runed Halo stopped creatures too, so that's awesome against Bogles, Goyf, Geist, Combo, etc. I have questions about Declaration of Naught, but I'm willing to test it. Thanks for the list.
Also, Honor Basquiat, feel free to post your list. I'd love to see it.
Plus you can use Aluren+ Null Profusion/Recycle to chain rats out of your deck.
The very best general for the Counterspell plan, as many have suggested, is Damia, Sage of Stone. She draws you rats and counterspells as you play them. What's not to like? Arguably, this is the best strategy for Relentless Rats.
The last time I checked, the best general for the Unearth plan is Karador, Ghost Chieftain. The reason is because the three colors in MtG that have access to putting things from the Graveyard to the Battlefield are Black, Green, and White. Additionally, Karador also fuels this plan and combos nicely with Bloodbond March. Finally, playing this strategy means that you can run your own boardwipes (as Black and White are so good at that) without worrying about your rats also dying. I'd argue that this is a more "fun" strategy and is probably the second best. Here's a decklist I constructed a little while ago, so I apologize if it's slightly dated and not entirely competitive.
8 Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Rats (25)
3 Relentless Rats
Unearth Effects (10+Karador)
1 Unearth
2 Profane Command
3 Mimic Vat
4 Bloodbond March
4 Living End
5 Living Death
6 Immortal Servitude
6 Sun Titan
7 Sheoldred, Whispering One
9 Reya Dawnbringer
Rat Protection (3)
2 Golgari Charm
3 Ghostway
5 Cauldron of Souls
4 Aluren
5 Thrumming Stone
6 Doubling Chant
Anthem Effects (2)
4 Triumph of the Hordes
7 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Tutor/Dig (10)
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Elfhame Sanctuary
2 Sterling Grove
3 Golgari Cluestone
3 Idyllic Tutor
3 Orzhov Cluestone
3 Selesnya Cluestone
4 Diabolic Tutor
6 Null Profusion
6 Recycle
2 Back to Nature
2 Black Sun's Zenith
4 Wrath of God
6 Austere Command
6 Phyrexian Rebirth
Spot Removal (1)
4 Return to Dust
Lands (40)
0 Command Tower
0 Golgari Guildgate
0 Krosan Verge
0 Orzhov Guildgate
0 Selesnya Guildgate
11 Forest
11 Plains
13 Swamp
4 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Restrictions on Spells
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Mana Maze
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Aura of Silence
3 Glowrider
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Squeeze
6 Feroz's Ban
7 Angelic Arbiter
Restrictions on Lands
2 Stasis
2 Winter Orb
3 Back to the Basics
4 Hokori, Dust Drinker
4 Rising Waters
5 Mist of Stagnation
1 Meekstone
2 Island Sanctuary
2 Juntu Stakes
2 Torpor Orb
3 Arena of the Ancients
3 Crackdown
3 Crawlspace
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Ghostly Prison
3 Hushwing Gryff
3 Propaganda
4 Aurification
4 Collective Restraint
4 Dissipation Field
4 Dream Tides
4 Embargo
4 Magus of the Moat
4 Marble Titan
4 Mystic Decree
4 Silent Arbiter
4 Windborn Muse
5 Norn's Annex
8 Stormtide Leviathan
9 Blazing Archon
2 Stony Silence
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Teferi's Puzzle Box
Win Cons
5 Azor's Elocutors
Self Beneficial
3 Paradox Haze
Lands
0 Azorius Chancery
0 Icatian Store
0 Sand Silos
0 Temple of the False God
0 Urza's Tower
0 Urza's Power Plant
0 Urza's Mine
Obviously the decks not done, so I need some help. Am I missing any cards that put limitations on when and what actions players can take, or did I get the majority of them? Again, I want them to be able to resolve a boardwipe and free themselves, I just want to make it obnoxious to do so. I'm not looking for friends with this deck, so tell me what I could add to grind your gears. Additionally, I don't really want to add very many dig cards or tutors. I'm not trying to combo lock players out every game, I just want to punish players if they ignore my boardstate. I also need help on the mana base. Because of the limitations on what gets untapped, I want to add lands that give me the most value when I want to use them. Finally, I want to add cards that help me navigate my own restrictions. Things like Gilded Lotus and Cloud Key, though I am trying to stay away from things with activated abilities.
Last thing, I have a few cards I'm considering but feel they might be too oppressive. I'd like to know your thoughts. I also want to know if anything I'm playing seems too oppressive and needs to be cut. Here are the cards I might add:
Again, I'm not trying to stop people from casting things completely, just trying to make it really hard. Thanks for any suggestions, critiques and comments. I'm looking forwards to your replies.
There are also 2 discussions already taking place similar to this one with a bit more discussion and some other lists if you'd like to check them out.
Discussion over lists similar to yours.
Discussion over how to chain together and play tons of artifacts from your deck.
Lol, didn't really think about the mirror. I guess I'd just board out most my noncreature name cards and board in Torpor Orb and go the beatdown route.
Post-sideboard most these match-ups get better.
Affinity is still tricky, but Ensnaring Bridge with Chalice of the Void on 0 or 1 might be enough to regain some ground.
Burn is easy once we board in Leyline of Sanctity and/or Kor Firewalker. Once we play one, we just need to name their enchantment removal.
Boggles loses against Ensnaring Bridge and Runed Halo. Once landing one of those we just name Nature's Claim and wait to Cyclonic Rift.
Twin is good if we get Runed Halo to stick or are able to name Splinter Twin on a Mage.
Pod is good if we can land a Pithing Needle and name artifact removal. Runed Halo stops both Murderous Redcap and Restoration Angel in Melira and Kiki Pod.
Like I said, Pili is really bad here. Sure, the one of might work, but we're devoting at least 5, if not more, to a combo that doesn't really synergize with the rest of our deck. As for being "toolboxy", what tools do you plan on including that'd make it worth it?
I'm all for including Myr Battlesphere but I don't think it's better than Wurmcoil. Just like this deck, Urzatron decks have access to 7 mana turn 3 but they play Wurmcoil over Battlesphere. Imagine why that might be. Overall, Wurmcoil is far better value than the sphere. Also, our 7 mana is pretty unreliable since it's coming from creatures and there is a plethera of ways they can die. The faster and more reliably we can play things, the better.
Superion might be worth playing now that we have a second reliable way to cast it.
I like this list quite a bit. Also, I'd play Judge's Familiar over Certarch simply because Metalcraft is unreliable and a free counterspell can help out in a pinch. In fact, we can tap the bird for mana to cast something, and still use it for counter backup.
Sure, Kira and MoW are cool, but they're a little too slow for Modern unless we're playing control or using MoW as a finisher. Also, if we did play them for their tokens, what would we use all that mana for. If we're running giant artifacts in our deck, I'm afraid that they'll be dead unless we get a good MoW cast off.
Remand is better than Mana Leak in most situations.
Haha, of course it is. I just wanted to make the point that we are able to have Heartless Summonings 5-8 in the form of this janky combo. More of a proof than a playable strategy.
I'll start thinking of how matchups might play out, but like you, I'm not very great at that sort of thing.
I've tried to play test this and I'm not a big fan. Often times you get mana screwed with 1 island and 2 of the Urza lands on the board and you can't play your Grand Architect. I feel like throwing in the Urza lands splits our strategy instead of synergizing. If you were really keen on playing it, I'd maybe only run 2 of each land max and really focus on Expedition Map and recursion to tutor them all out. Even then I fell like it's pretty weak. However, the Mindslaver lock feels like a solid finisher, especially when we're running a bunch of creatures that can hit them turn after turn.
Like I said in the OP, Pili-Pala just doesn't seem good enough to include. At best, it's an infinite mana engine that needs another card as a wincon. At worst, Pili is a completely dead draw. If we don't devote entirely to the combo, it's not worth running. However, the combo itself is pretty weak. Sure, it can win by turn 3, but that's if you have perfect mana and all the card you need. Pili is difficult to tutor for at 2 mana, Grand Architect can't be tutored for, it needs three cards to win, and there are only 4 of each combo piece in the deck (unlike Twin which runs 8 of each piece). You're devoting a lot of slots to a subpar combo if you run Pili. Heartless Summoning might look bad with it's -1/-1, but what 1/1s are you going to run that it effects? The only real downsides are that you don't really want more than 1, so any extras you draw are dead. And it's not really worth splashing an entire other color for. However, it does give you access to the Myr Retriever combo for infinite storm/graveyard triggers, which is cool. While it's a 4 card combo, all of its pieces aren't really ever dead. Myr Retrievers synergize pretty well as we can play Grand Architect turn 3 and retrieve a killed Etherium Sculptor or other artifact later in the game (like Wurmcoil Engine for more shenanigans). Heartless acts as Grand Architects 5-8. And the kill part of the combo is either Falkenrath Noble, who is an ok creature, or Bitter Ordeal/Grapeshot, which are arguably dead but can shine in certain matchups like Storm or Pod. Talisman doesn't really seem that great here, and like I said in the OP, Chief Engineer makes a perfect replacement for Heartless, though we do drop the combo (which we really didn't care too much about, but it's nice we had the option). Ulamog might seem like a good finisher, but he's too expensive to realistically consider. Our goal should be the 5-7 CMC finishers that we can hit on our explosive turn 3. If we wait longer than that, we run the risk of having all our creature ramp die to Anger of the Gods, Supreme Verdict, Damnation, and Wrath of God, among other things. Plus, we have great finishers in the forms of Wurmcoil Engine, Batterskull, Steel Hellkite, Mindslaver, Myr Battlesphere, and Platinum Angel.
I feel like it's a bit too weak to removal and boardwipes as well as the late game. However, it might not be a bad idea to run Cavern of Souls since we're running 3 different Veldalkens in blue and most everything else is colorless.
Haha thanks for the info. Though often times looking into things like this are useless, sometimes you find some sweet gems. Keep it up!
Totally forgot about Battlesphere till you mentioned it. This is a brutal turn 3 that can be played even if you swap Chief Engineer and Grand Architect. Thanks for mentioning it.
You bring up a lot of good points. I like the Platinum Angel plan, so I'll look into that for sure. However, if we go for the Plat Angel plan, I think it's less important to have the turn 1 creature out as we can't have Lightning Grieves and Platinum Angel on the board by turn 3 without leaving ourselves open to attack and tapped out or in a position where Lightning Grieves isn't important enough to be out on turn 3.
Anyway, thanks for all the input, I plan on updating the OP really soon. Between work and general business, I wasn't able to add as much as I'd have liked to the OP when I first wrote it.
One final thought, how do you guys feel about Trading Post? It synergizes well with Wurmcoil Engine, Myr Battlesphere, and Solemn Simulacrum and is rarely dead, especially with the amount of mana at our disposal.
Turn 1: Land, Viscera Seer.
Turn 2: Land, Chief Engineer, Convoke using both creatures for Etherium Sculptor, Convoke using Etherium Sculptor for Myr Retriever, Convoke using Myr Retriever for Myr Retriever sacrificing the one on the board in response, retrieve the first Myr Retriever with the new one, Convoke the second Myr Retriever to play the first one and sacrificing it in response, repeat for infinite loop.
I know it takes 3 cards over 2 turns to replace Heartless Summoning, but at least there are two methods to get the same result.
I'm a big fan of this list. I knew from the start Meddling was the powerhouse of this deck, just unsure about the other cards. I figured Revoker wasn't that great as it is just an easier to kill Needle. I can understand Nevermore getting dropped in favor of other things. For some reason it didn't click that Runed Halo stopped creatures too, so that's awesome against Bogles, Goyf, Geist, Combo, etc. I have questions about Declaration of Naught, but I'm willing to test it. Thanks for the list.
Also, Honor Basquiat, feel free to post your list. I'd love to see it.