I have seen the Lovisa Coldeyes deck and it is TERRIFYING.
I'm finally getting around to building the Lovisa Giant/Warrior deck. I want to use a heavy anti magic/anti blue theme since Lovisa (and barbarians in general) eschew magic, but I don't want to gimp myself too badly. Can anyone suggest some cool cards to fit this theme?
The concept is to use Homicidal Seclusion and Inkmoth Nexus to create huge swings in the game. They can either receive 4 Poison counters or not, but either way you will gain 4 life. This, combined with a few aggressively costed creatures and a lot of control in the form of a small counter suite and removal creates a nice aggro/control shell to build upon.
The Virulent Wound are very strong in the current meta. It hits Champion of the Parish, Delver (non flipped), enemy Inkmoth Nexus, Snapcaster Mage, mana dorks, etc. It also opens your opponent up to Corrupted Resolve, which I feel is a very underrated card for infect strategies.
I'm trying to decide what direction to take the rest of the deck and would appreciate some help.
I could field more aggressive, cheap infect creatures or I could field fewer creatures and more removal, counters and sweepers. The former makes it harder to trigger Homicidal Seclusion as I run the risk of having more than one creature on the board. The latter strategy plays a slower more controlling game and easily triggers HS, but is a plan I'm unfamiliar with.
I would love to see the community's thoughts on this idea.
I tried Elgaud Shieldmate briefly, but at 4 mana, it's too susceptible to all the counters that kill our tempo, and it's not really doing anything except protecting one threat. It isn't even a real threat itself. I'm not sure we can afford to be defensive like that. If it at least had 4 toughness I think it would be better, but as it is... Slagstorm will eat it alive.
Then again, I'll definitely give it more testing, probably in the spot I was putting Tandem Lookout before (which didn't pan out either, sadly, as much as I love repeated card draw).
The presence of Slagstorm didn't deter us from running Dungeon Geists, and when they die it can be an even bigger blowout for us depending on what they were keeping tapped down. After they Slag our Shieldmate(s) they still need a removal spell for our Splinterfright which just got bigger from our smaller creatures hitting the gy. The decks that Shieldmate will excel against are the ones that use a lot of spot removal: tragic slip, vapor snag, go for the throat, beast within, etc. I have no problem against Wolf Ramp which is the only deck running Slagstorm at the moment.
I'm really surprised that there hasn't been any discussion about Elgaud Shieldmate. It's a very strong turn 3 or 4 play. Giving an early Splingerfright hexproof can be a huge game changer.
That's my main problem with the Devil in RG. I can't see running him over Looting or Lavamancer. My other problem is that he doesn't really enable any strong plays. Sure, cast him turn 1 and they eat 4, what are you going to follow that up with? Boneyard Wurm?
It's even a strong creature on later turns. You're missing the point. Turn one, it's a creature in the bin and four damage. Why is Screeching Skaab so much more acceptable at two mana (when we could be casting Tracker's, Mulch or flashing back a Dream Twist) and two cards milled, one of which might be a creature but more than likely you just milled some land you needed to curve out.
Seriously, please try thinking outside of the box this thread is creating. The first example isn't hamstrung by Tragic Slip or Gut shot on your mana dork, and you've already taken a 5th of their life. It's not inferior by any stretch of the imagination.
Don't want to waste an Artful Dodge+Ghoultree just to stomp a planeswalker? Cast it on Vexing Devil, then Flashback it on your Ghoultree. Send the Devil after the walker and the Ghoultree where it needs to go--your opponents face. A dodging Skaab or mana dork isn't going to take care of that planeswalker in one swing, which is necessary a large majority of the time.
Late game it still is a relevant creature due to its size and is VERY easy to cast after Flashing back a Tracker's Instincts. Trying to cast a 3+CMC creature after dumping 3 on a Tracker's Instincts Flashback really strains this deck, and some games won't even be possible.
Steel Hellkite really isn't maindeckable. I think Wurmcoil is vastly superior if you're going to run a 6 mana artifact
I don't like Wolfbitten Captive, you would probably be better off with Llanowar Elves. The problem with the Captive is that this deck REALLY doesn't need a mana sink. You should be efficiently using your mana every turn, because you need to reach critical mass as quickly as possible. It also doesn't help against early fliers
I'm somewhat worried about these AVR spoilers so far. Wingcrafter is about the only playable card I have seen for us, and that's not terribly exciting
Nightshade Peddler gives us pseudo removal. He can also help Splinterfright overcome the obstacle of gang block scenarios reducing its trample damage because of the interaction between Deathtouch and Trample.
Vexing Devil is an amazing one drop for people who want to go back to RG Splinterfright. Most players will take the 4 dmg putting the devil in the graveyard. That's one creature in the bin and 4 dmg for 1 mana. That's a fantastic start for our archetype. At 1R it's also a great creature to draw into with Tracker's Instincts since you can easily cast it right away. It's a great target for Artful Dodge because it hits pretty hard--hard enough to take out most Planeswalkers in one swing. Granted, the mana base will be hard to manage, but I think that could be handled with Viridian Emissary.
I know a lot of you guys run more dorks than just 4 Birds, in addition to four birds, but instead of an Elf or Pilgrim and as just a one-of for now i'm going to try and run a different and more aggressive green one-drop Wolfbitten Captive .
I run a playset of Wolfbitten Captive because my meta is full of control players that like to durdle around waiting to drop their Grave Titan or Consecrated Sphinx.
It's a must answer card for control, and if they don't draw GFTT or Tragic Slip soon enough it can knock half their life off before they can play a blocker. This gives me a chance to durdle back at the king of all durdlers and just beat his face in while I set up my finishers. I he flips it's even better.
I'm considering Acidic Slime over my Beast Within Sideboard. It answers all of the same problems except for Planeswalkers and comes with a body. It's also a creature when it hits grave instead of an instant. However, not dealing with Planeswalkers and costing 5 mana are significant downsides. Which is best for the deck?
As for that deck Tiemuuu, I would probably move Dismember to the sideboard for Viridian Emissaries and possibly a basic land of each color you need. The Snapcasters can probably get reduced also, they don't do very much main-deck.
The best answers to Planeswalkers currently are things like Celestial Purge, any direct damage, flying/evasive creatures, Beast Within, etc.
Our best answer is to cast Artful Dodge and have one of our creatures beat the Plansewalkers face in. So perhaps 2 Artful Dodge mainboard and 1 Sideboard. This way we don't dilute our creature count or flashback spell count when we have to deal with 'walkers. Planeswalkers always get to activate once anyway, even if you have instant speed removal, so waiting a turn to sneak an unblockable creature in is not a downside. The downside is that our opponent can respond by bouncing/removing the creature we target with Dodge. I've considered Hex Parasite but using its ability without black mana is suicide.
Another potential downside to using Artful Dodge is having enough power to kill the Planeswalker. I know I would much rather be hitting my opponent with my Ghoultrees and Splinterfrights. Everything else in our deck has 0-3 power), which is sometimes not enough to kill a Planeswalker that has added loyalty counters. I've been considering Trespassing Souleater. It's a good source of constant damage, can be targeted by Buried Ruin and is easy to activate.
One of my opponents said that Skaab Ruinator is a great answer to Planeswalkers, but I disagree. He is too easily chumped by Spirits in this Meta.
Since this page is referring to all types of dredge, is it worth mentioning Vexing Devil here? It seems he makes RG builds much more viable, as he brings both speed and topdeck value at most any point in the game. I mentioned him in the RG thread, but that seems to have died down for the most part.
It's a fantastic creature for this archetype. Big threat, goes in the yard early if your opponent pays the life cost, has a big enough body to be relevant late game. I may be swithing to RG when Avacyn Restored hits.
In my opinion, Salvage scout is way better than buried ruins, unless your slots are super full. I find splashing white is better than using colourless mana sources, since white is pretty useful colour anyway
Salvage Scout seems like a great option when using White. Early it can act as a road block or a few points of damage; late it can be used to retrieve artifacts and enable our beaters. I like it, but if you're going to use Salvage Scout then you should probably take advantage of it and play a few more artifacts.
A note on Acidic Slime:
In the current Meta, Acidic Slime is one of our strongest options for interacting with our opponent's board.
It hits all of the following relevant threats:
Swords, Pikes, Mortarpod, Birthing Pod, Kessig Wolf Run, Inkmoth Nexus, Vault of the Archangel, Gavony Township, Intangible Virtue, Honor of the Pure, Angelic Destiny, Heartless Summoning, Lashwrithe. The list goes on.
The main reasons it is such a good answer are:
If it's not countered you get value even if it is immediately destroyed by removal.
It's got deathtouch allowing it to trade with many dangerous creatures.
It's a horrible target for Vapor Snag because you can get a second use out of its ETB trigger.
It's fuels our plan when it is milled.
To remain competitive, I feel that Acidic Slime should be a 2 of in our Mainboard with 1-2 in the Sideboard.
However, if you are splashing White and you absolutely need to remove enchantments (Angelic Destiny) earlier and more frequently then use Ray of Revelation. If you are splashing Red, and don't need to enchantment hate, then use Ancient Grudge. My point is though that the slime hits all of the same targets. It's more versatile and should be used in an unknown or often shifting Meta.
@Kueson.
You might also want to add some sideboard options against certain tier 1 decks in the first post, when you go and do your finishing touch for this primers 1st post.
A short sideboard example and match up analysis for each Tier 1 deck is pretty standard. I'd like to see one.
I really, really like Wingcrafter. It gives some much-needed evasion for the deck, and it can keep the creature count up.
It's vulnerable to lolTragicSlip and the like, but still. I'm definitely going to try it out.
Off Topic: So uh...have you guys seen Temporal Mastery? Between that and Wingcrafter I feel like the devs love Delver so much that they want to keep pumping cards into it.
For any of you WoW players it feels like arenas and Rogue/Mage/Priest. The devs love it so much they never nerfed it and only buff it. Makes me wish that devs were banned from playing their own games.
I'm finally getting around to building the Lovisa Giant/Warrior deck. I want to use a heavy anti magic/anti blue theme since Lovisa (and barbarians in general) eschew magic, but I don't want to gimp myself too badly. Can anyone suggest some cool cards to fit this theme?
Here is the foundation of the deck:
4 Homicidal Seclusion
4 Virulent Wound
4 Tezzeret's Gambit
2 Doom Blade
2 Go For the Throat
2 Black Sun's Zenith
4 Lashwrithe
The Virulent Wound are very strong in the current meta. It hits Champion of the Parish, Delver (non flipped), enemy Inkmoth Nexus, Snapcaster Mage, mana dorks, etc. It also opens your opponent up to Corrupted Resolve, which I feel is a very underrated card for infect strategies.
I'm trying to decide what direction to take the rest of the deck and would appreciate some help.
I could field more aggressive, cheap infect creatures or I could field fewer creatures and more removal, counters and sweepers. The former makes it harder to trigger Homicidal Seclusion as I run the risk of having more than one creature on the board. The latter strategy plays a slower more controlling game and easily triggers HS, but is a plan I'm unfamiliar with.
I would love to see the community's thoughts on this idea.
-H
The presence of Slagstorm didn't deter us from running Dungeon Geists, and when they die it can be an even bigger blowout for us depending on what they were keeping tapped down. After they Slag our Shieldmate(s) they still need a removal spell for our Splinterfright which just got bigger from our smaller creatures hitting the gy. The decks that Shieldmate will excel against are the ones that use a lot of spot removal: tragic slip, vapor snag, go for the throat, beast within, etc. I have no problem against Wolf Ramp which is the only deck running Slagstorm at the moment.
It's even a strong creature on later turns. You're missing the point. Turn one, it's a creature in the bin and four damage. Why is Screeching Skaab so much more acceptable at two mana (when we could be casting Tracker's, Mulch or flashing back a Dream Twist) and two cards milled, one of which might be a creature but more than likely you just milled some land you needed to curve out.
T1: Land, Vexing Devil
T2: Land, Tracker's Instincts or Mulch
T3: Land, Splinterfright
as opposed to:
T1: Land, Bird
T2: Land, Armored Skaab
T3: Land, Splinterfright
Seriously, please try thinking outside of the box this thread is creating. The first example isn't hamstrung by Tragic Slip or Gut shot on your mana dork, and you've already taken a 5th of their life. It's not inferior by any stretch of the imagination.
Don't want to waste an Artful Dodge+Ghoultree just to stomp a planeswalker? Cast it on Vexing Devil, then Flashback it on your Ghoultree. Send the Devil after the walker and the Ghoultree where it needs to go--your opponents face. A dodging Skaab or mana dork isn't going to take care of that planeswalker in one swing, which is necessary a large majority of the time.
Late game it still is a relevant creature due to its size and is VERY easy to cast after Flashing back a Tracker's Instincts. Trying to cast a 3+CMC creature after dumping 3 on a Tracker's Instincts Flashback really strains this deck, and some games won't even be possible.
Nightshade Peddler gives us pseudo removal. He can also help Splinterfright overcome the obstacle of gang block scenarios reducing its trample damage because of the interaction between Deathtouch and Trample.
Vexing Devil is an amazing one drop for people who want to go back to RG Splinterfright. Most players will take the 4 dmg putting the devil in the graveyard. That's one creature in the bin and 4 dmg for 1 mana. That's a fantastic start for our archetype. At 1R it's also a great creature to draw into with Tracker's Instincts since you can easily cast it right away. It's a great target for Artful Dodge because it hits pretty hard--hard enough to take out most Planeswalkers in one swing. Granted, the mana base will be hard to manage, but I think that could be handled with Viridian Emissary.
I run a playset of Wolfbitten Captive because my meta is full of control players that like to durdle around waiting to drop their Grave Titan or Consecrated Sphinx.
It's a must answer card for control, and if they don't draw GFTT or Tragic Slip soon enough it can knock half their life off before they can play a blocker. This gives me a chance to durdle back at the king of all durdlers and just beat his face in while I set up my finishers. I he flips it's even better.
The best answers to Planeswalkers currently are things like Celestial Purge, any direct damage, flying/evasive creatures, Beast Within, etc.
Our best answer is to cast Artful Dodge and have one of our creatures beat the Plansewalkers face in. So perhaps 2 Artful Dodge mainboard and 1 Sideboard. This way we don't dilute our creature count or flashback spell count when we have to deal with 'walkers. Planeswalkers always get to activate once anyway, even if you have instant speed removal, so waiting a turn to sneak an unblockable creature in is not a downside. The downside is that our opponent can respond by bouncing/removing the creature we target with Dodge. I've considered Hex Parasite but using its ability without black mana is suicide.
Another potential downside to using Artful Dodge is having enough power to kill the Planeswalker. I know I would much rather be hitting my opponent with my Ghoultrees and Splinterfrights. Everything else in our deck has 0-3 power), which is sometimes not enough to kill a Planeswalker that has added loyalty counters. I've been considering Trespassing Souleater. It's a good source of constant damage, can be targeted by Buried Ruin and is easy to activate.
One of my opponents said that Skaab Ruinator is a great answer to Planeswalkers, but I disagree. He is too easily chumped by Spirits in this Meta.
It's a fantastic creature for this archetype. Big threat, goes in the yard early if your opponent pays the life cost, has a big enough body to be relevant late game. I may be swithing to RG when Avacyn Restored hits.
Salvage Scout seems like a great option when using White. Early it can act as a road block or a few points of damage; late it can be used to retrieve artifacts and enable our beaters. I like it, but if you're going to use Salvage Scout then you should probably take advantage of it and play a few more artifacts.
In the current Meta, Acidic Slime is one of our strongest options for interacting with our opponent's board.
It hits all of the following relevant threats:
Swords, Pikes, Mortarpod, Birthing Pod, Kessig Wolf Run, Inkmoth Nexus, Vault of the Archangel, Gavony Township, Intangible Virtue, Honor of the Pure, Angelic Destiny, Heartless Summoning, Lashwrithe. The list goes on.
The main reasons it is such a good answer are:
To remain competitive, I feel that Acidic Slime should be a 2 of in our Mainboard with 1-2 in the Sideboard.
However, if you are splashing White and you absolutely need to remove enchantments (Angelic Destiny) earlier and more frequently then use Ray of Revelation. If you are splashing Red, and don't need to enchantment hate, then use Ancient Grudge. My point is though that the slime hits all of the same targets. It's more versatile and should be used in an unknown or often shifting Meta.
A short sideboard example and match up analysis for each Tier 1 deck is pretty standard. I'd like to see one.
Off Topic: So uh...have you guys seen Temporal Mastery? Between that and Wingcrafter I feel like the devs love Delver so much that they want to keep pumping cards into it.
For any of you WoW players it feels like arenas and Rogue/Mage/Priest. The devs love it so much they never nerfed it and only buff it. Makes me wish that devs were banned from playing their own games.