It's good design, but the issue is it's essentially a Trickbind that Cantrips for 1 additional. The option of having a 3/1 Flier with Flash for 3 in Blue is nice, but outside of EDH, the versatility isn't a reason to throw off a good curve in Blue for Modern or other competitive formats, as wasting a cantrip counter as a blocker isn't in Blue's best interest, and going aggressive with a creature with evasion isn't Blue at all (for the most part).
This card shines in Azami EDH, hardly a reason to be worth more than $2. But when you have it in that deck, prepare to lose your friends.
I mean, Idk, that sounds a lot like blue actually...
Blue flyers tempo-style is definitely within its territory. Almost any given format features this. Pauper has plenty of Delver variants on top of Ninja of the Deep Hours + Cloud of Faeries + plenty of other Faeries. Then Standard has UW Spirits (several iterations over several standard formats). In Limited, it's one of the hallmark strategies to blue (especially UW). Modern and Legacy all feature Delver strategies, Geist of Saint Traft (well...once upon a time), UB Faeries (which is basically a port from Standard/Extended), Spirits, UWR Counter-burn (Featuring Spell Queller, Snapcaster Beats), etc. There's plenty of examples everywhere. I think it's actually a pretty prominent part of blue's identity.
Opened this card as my pre-release promo. I think this card is super cool. The one big thing holding it back (besides costing 3 cmc, and the cycling being 3 cmc) is that you have to choose between the two modes (body or stifle+draw). Because it doesn't actually do anything onboard after casting it, I don't think it will truly ever take over formats; the cycle is slightly too expensive IMO to be oppressive. Also when it's onboard, it's kind of just a medium-sized beater. 3 power isn't bad though.
It's really easy to compare it to V-Clique, because they have somewhat similar effects, but the big difference is that V-clique is a body with an ability attached, whereas this card is either a body or a stifle+draw. You also get to abuse repeated ETB triggers with Clique (Karakas). V-clique is a better version of this card IF you elect to just cycle the bird without stifling, since Clique can target yourself and just tuck/draw if you really needed a "cycle."
Final (mostly) irrelevant tidbit: Clique can be your EDH General, but the bird wizard cannot. No point comparing Obstructionist to Snapcaster though; Snapcaster is way better.
But hey, 3 mana 3/1 flash flyer is a really good base. And it has an upside; the added flexibility from cycle is really sweet. It doesn't even require double blue.
I'm glad that WotC decided to push it a little and give us an actual ability tacked to the cycle. I was really hoping for more cards like Shefet Monitor and Complicate, where you get bonus cool effects from the actual cycling mechanic. I want to say this is the best card from the set, but I'm probably wrong and probably a little biased.
Really tempted to brew up some kind of flash/flyer Wizard variant in Modern.
Do you guys sometimes Turn 3 Ritual --> Gifts Ungiven for speed/value? I feel like in certain pressured situations, I'm incentivized to make this kind of play.
Looking at putting this deck together. I had one question though. Why does no one add in Iona/Unburial combo? After Putting the stock list together I had 6 flex spots left and could not figure out why a combo this powerful for the cost of 2 flex spots was not being added. Is it because a skilled storm player does not need this and is better served adding cards that add consistency to the combo rather then a plan b wincon?
I like the idea of it, because it's so brutal and people don't expect it. Also is super easy to drop this against say, Burn and lock them out. Because you don't need as much set-up.
Problem is that the combo attacks from the same axis as the main plan; opponents side in graveyard hate to screw you over games 2 and 3. Iona/Rites falls prey to the same kind of hate. Also, you'll have to make certain deck construction changes to accommodate it. In particular -- What if you draw into Iona/Rites? You'll basically have to run Faithless Looting (or Cathartic Reunion or Desperate Ravings if you're lucky) instead of Peer Through Depths for the discard feature. Faithless Looting isn't a terrible card in the deck to be fair. I just think Peer is better.
You might also be incentivized to update your land base to accommodate black/white. City of Brass/Mana Confluence offers some spicy tech. Also justifies Wear/Tear a little more. I guess. I'm not sure if adding B/W to the land base in anyway is really worth it...but you can. Or you can just use straight UR land base + discard and only generate B/W with Manamorphose.
I really like the Iona/Rites combo and wish I can justify it, but the deck's already consistent enough, has an alternate way of winning (Empty the Warrens), and the reanimated package still gets rekt by graveyard hate.
I'd take Pile B here. Some useful cards in Pile A, but Pile B has long-term foils (I'm quite envious of your new Misty) and solid pedigree. Pile A has reprintables, many of which you definitely want to be moving now.
Thanks. I was a little hesitant on moving in on foil Goyf and foil Misty, as I was afraid that my collection was gonna get fleeced real hard. Wasn't sure if I even wanted to ask for them at the time.
I can't find Jeskai Nahiri under Tier 2 in the latest metagame report. Only about half of the Jeskai Control lists in the data sets run Nahiri. Putting Jeskai Nahiri at a roughly 1% metagame share which is far from Tier 2.
Yes, it seems like ModernNexus just aggregated all of the Jeskai Control variants (draw-go, flash, Nahiri, Saheeli) into one category. Obviously this means that (1) no individual (sub-)archetype is doing that well, and (2) Jeskai players don't have a consensus on which build is the most effective.
Since this Nahiri thread "lives" on other cobtrol variants, does that mean we can discuss other non-Nahiri builds too?
I think we can. The mods and some volunteers are looking to make it that way(?). Idk.
Glad to help! Also glad to see that you're not doing the trade. A part of me is always sad when really slick cards get traded away for realistically less than they are worth.
On a side note, I have *GOT* to set aside some cash to get a foil Cavern of Souls. That art makes me drool.
Goyf will drop a bit more, but I doubt it stays at $70 for long. I personally know players that will buy in excess at that price. I myself would if I wasn't tapped for funds right now and 100% if they dropped to nearly $60.
True point. I think they'll drop to slightly below $70, but those will most likely get bought up reasonably quick.
It just really depends. Goyf is a really iconic card that now has its 4th printing. Cavern has its 2nd printing. Both are Mythics. I would say that foil Cavern of Souls is somewhat to find, but Goyf is Goyf.
Yeah, it was an interesting potential trade I had earlier today. Not sure which was better to go for. I ended up just keeping the Cavern, banking on it being a little more scarce than Goyf; hoping Goyf drops a little more, while foil Cavern holds steady.
I'd say that your window to sell closed when the announcement was made. Prices on Modern Masters 3 reprints have already softened. Hang on to them - they're near their nadir now, and foils recover pretty well.
Thank you for this. I'll hang onto them and hope they recover a little bit. I almost just put them up for fire-sales. Luckily I'm lazy just enough...
Just pulled foil Cavern of Souls from MM2017. Should I sell or keep? Not sure what to make of the foils in this set.
I miss the days when people could play with whatever they wanted to without the player base whining and complaining that having their cards countered is "cancerous" or unfun.
I miss control because of the time period of magic it represents for me. When everybody didn't send wizards mad tweets and found ways to beat decks they didn't like outside of "ban it" "needs to be banned " "ruins my fun".
Old school control was "unfun" because you lost on turn 6 but they didn't actually kill you until turn 50. Also, if we're talking pre-Mirrodin, you simply didn't beat control in that era of MTG. If you weren't playing a Counterspell-based control deck, you were either playing a completely broken combo deck that was destined for banning or your plan against control was, "hope that they forgot your deck exists." If they made any effort towards beating what you were playing, you were getting rolled.
I think there was that old adage: "If control really wants to beat you, they will." Guess that's where it came from.
Sell or Keep:
Gifts Ungiven x4 (2 FTV Foil, 2 MMA Pack Foil -- I don't even fully remember which version honestly)
Gifts Ungiven is an unusual card for me. I have this bad habit of buying/trading into a set...then using them maybe a few times, then selling/getting rid of them. Then having the bug to try again and buy/trade into these cards again...
With the announcement that it's being reprinted in MM3...should I sell these? As...how much will they fall, and I haven't really messed with them much. Where are foils gonna sit at?
So what does it rely on?
I mean, Idk, that sounds a lot like blue actually...
Blue flyers tempo-style is definitely within its territory. Almost any given format features this. Pauper has plenty of Delver variants on top of Ninja of the Deep Hours + Cloud of Faeries + plenty of other Faeries. Then Standard has UW Spirits (several iterations over several standard formats). In Limited, it's one of the hallmark strategies to blue (especially UW). Modern and Legacy all feature Delver strategies, Geist of Saint Traft (well...once upon a time), UB Faeries (which is basically a port from Standard/Extended), Spirits, UWR Counter-burn (Featuring Spell Queller, Snapcaster Beats), etc. There's plenty of examples everywhere. I think it's actually a pretty prominent part of blue's identity.
It's really easy to compare it to V-Clique, because they have somewhat similar effects, but the big difference is that V-clique is a body with an ability attached, whereas this card is either a body or a stifle+draw. You also get to abuse repeated ETB triggers with Clique (Karakas). V-clique is a better version of this card IF you elect to just cycle the bird without stifling, since Clique can target yourself and just tuck/draw if you really needed a "cycle."
Final (mostly) irrelevant tidbit: Clique can be your EDH General, but the bird wizard cannot. No point comparing Obstructionist to Snapcaster though; Snapcaster is way better.
But hey, 3 mana 3/1 flash flyer is a really good base. And it has an upside; the added flexibility from cycle is really sweet. It doesn't even require double blue.
I'm glad that WotC decided to push it a little and give us an actual ability tacked to the cycle. I was really hoping for more cards like Shefet Monitor and Complicate, where you get bonus cool effects from the actual cycling mechanic. I want to say this is the best card from the set, but I'm probably wrong and probably a little biased.
Really tempted to brew up some kind of flash/flyer Wizard variant in Modern.
I like the idea of it, because it's so brutal and people don't expect it. Also is super easy to drop this against say, Burn and lock them out. Because you don't need as much set-up.
Problem is that the combo attacks from the same axis as the main plan; opponents side in graveyard hate to screw you over games 2 and 3. Iona/Rites falls prey to the same kind of hate. Also, you'll have to make certain deck construction changes to accommodate it. In particular -- What if you draw into Iona/Rites? You'll basically have to run Faithless Looting (or Cathartic Reunion or Desperate Ravings if you're lucky) instead of Peer Through Depths for the discard feature. Faithless Looting isn't a terrible card in the deck to be fair. I just think Peer is better.
You might also be incentivized to update your land base to accommodate black/white. City of Brass/Mana Confluence offers some spicy tech. Also justifies Wear/Tear a little more. I guess. I'm not sure if adding B/W to the land base in anyway is really worth it...but you can. Or you can just use straight UR land base + discard and only generate B/W with Manamorphose.
I really like the Iona/Rites combo and wish I can justify it, but the deck's already consistent enough, has an alternate way of winning (Empty the Warrens), and the reanimated package still gets rekt by graveyard hate.
Thanks. I was a little hesitant on moving in on foil Goyf and foil Misty, as I was afraid that my collection was gonna get fleeced real hard. Wasn't sure if I even wanted to ask for them at the time.
1x Inquisition of Kozilek MM17
1x Path to Exile MM17
1x Overgrown Tomb (Original Ravnica)
1x Stomping Ground (Original Ravnica)
1x Temple Garden RTR
3x Bridge from Below MMA
1x Bridge from Below (Future Sight)
4x Golgari Thug (Some duel deck, some Ravnica)
4x Chancellor of the Annex
3x Sensei's Divining Top Kamigawa
2x Venser, Shaper Savant (MM17)
2x Scavenging Ooze (MM17)
2x Detention Sphere
2x Steel of the Godhead
2x Ranger of Eos (MM17)
1x Grave Titan
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
1x Abrupt Decay RTR
1x Razorverge Thicket
1x Creeping Tar Pit (Foil)
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Underground River (9th Ed.)
1x Raging Ravine
1x Slayers' Stronghold
1x Vault of the Archangel DKA
1x Living Death (Battle Royale Box Set)
1x Life from the Loam (Duel Deck?)
Pile B:
1x Tarmogoyf (MM17 Foil)
2x Misty Rainforest (MM17)
1x Misty Rainforest (MM17 Foil)
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Collective Brutality (Prerelease Foil)
Completed this one some weeks back. Is this over-trading?
I think we can. The mods and some volunteers are looking to make it that way(?). Idk.
Can confirm. It's quite beautiful in foil.
True point. I think they'll drop to slightly below $70, but those will most likely get bought up reasonably quick.
Yeah, it was an interesting potential trade I had earlier today. Not sure which was better to go for. I ended up just keeping the Cavern, banking on it being a little more scarce than Goyf; hoping Goyf drops a little more, while foil Cavern holds steady.
Cavern of Souls (Foil, MM2017)
Pile B:
Tarmogoyf (MM2017)
Thank you for this. I'll hang onto them and hope they recover a little bit. I almost just put them up for fire-sales. Luckily I'm lazy just enough...
Just pulled foil Cavern of Souls from MM2017. Should I sell or keep? Not sure what to make of the foils in this set.
I think there was that old adage: "If control really wants to beat you, they will." Guess that's where it came from.
Gifts Ungiven x4 (2 FTV Foil, 2 MMA Pack Foil -- I don't even fully remember which version honestly)
Gifts Ungiven is an unusual card for me. I have this bad habit of buying/trading into a set...then using them maybe a few times, then selling/getting rid of them. Then having the bug to try again and buy/trade into these cards again...
With the announcement that it's being reprinted in MM3...should I sell these? As...how much will they fall, and I haven't really messed with them much. Where are foils gonna sit at?