Man, I've been a bit busy with work and haven't been able to play as much Modern recently.
With that said, despite in the 30+ pages ago being a huge advocate of GW Lead the stampede, I may go to a GBw Chord list for the SCG Dallas/FW event coming up next weekend. Right now, I'm expecting lots of Abzan Company and such and feel that the toolbox from Chord may be necessary. Also, I plan on running 3-4 Lead the Stampedes in the sideboard though for the grindy matchups.
As far as the Nettle Sentinels are concerned, I'm not sure I'll be running 4. I may do a 2-2 Nettle/Warcaller split so my top decks aren't as terrible.
After some time with just reading I just want to report, that Westvale Abbey is really playable and a good addition to the deck.
Just came from FNM (sadly only 3:2) and the Abbey performed really great, when on board.
Against UWx Control the opponent had to keep a Path in hand just in case I go for the Demon and it felt like really good Sweeper protection. Didn't need to activate the Abbey, but it was definitely a factor in that game.
Against Titanshift, they just have no out against the Demon. The only can try to raze and getting 9 damage and me 9 Life up (to 29 at that point) sealed that game for me.
When putting it down to my deck with CoCo it felt sad and I always welcomed it.
Took the spots of my other colorless Lands (Sea Gate Wreckage and Nykthos) and I would advise to test it.
Against Titanshift, their out is to kill you with Scapeshifting while having Prismatic Omen out. They can easily just put way over 70+ damage to your life total, but Prismatic Omen has to be out. Just remember that if you have Chord of Calling and Reclamation Sage main against this match up, you can blow them out.
Has anyone thought about abusing our creature count and amazing mana production to go for a dedicated Westvale Abbey route?
Not exactly, but that would mean you would need x4 Westvale Abbey and like x4 Sylvan Scrying and Expedition Map and stuff. That'd be strange, but if you want to try it, go for it.
Why some of you have abandoned Nettle Sentinels in your lists?
Unlike its legacy counter-part, Nettle Sentinels are only good early game with a Heritage Druid during the time we want to win. Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen since we don't have cards like Green Sun Zenith for early shenanigans. Also, because we're not combo, we don't need it.
Joraga serves the same purpose early on like Nettle Sentinel. You can play him turn 1 just to up your creature count if you do have a Heritage Druid out, but Joraga's versatility becoming a late game top deck power sink is also underestimated. Sure, he's a bad hit on Collected Company, but you're running 32+ creatures. You won't be choosing him.
I'm a fan of a 1-of Westvale Abbey right now, but I'm not cutting both Nykthos for it. My mana base is currently as followed:
That's 3 colorless mana sources. That may seem like a lot, but I've been doing just fine with them. I'm essentially an 18 land deck + Westvale Abbey (I put it in my creature slot). I haven't had many issues with it. On occasion I'll have a mana dork and a colorless source in hand, but I can afford to mulligan since I also run 3 Boreal Druids on top of the 4 Heritage Druids, 4 Llanowar Elves, and 4 Elvish Mystics since I'm on the GW plan.
I hope I'm not disrupting the Westie discussion. I'm actually forming my first ever modern elves deck and I'm going for GW elves. Having read through the most parts of recent posts, I'm wondering why is there no mention of Talara's Battalion? I'm thinking it should have better synergy than Sylvan Messenger?
Not sure where you're getting at as they both have completely different functions: one refuels your hand and one is just a 4/3 Trample beater.
I'm still on the GW Lead the Stampede build, but even though I'm playing a 1-of Westvale Abbey, it has helped twice in the few matches I've used it. Regardless, I'm only going to activate it if I know they have a board wipe. You definitely don't want to overextend into a Path or a Vapor Snag/Cryptic bounce...nothing worse than a 6-for-1. Like, as cool as it is to get a 9/7 demon on board, you really have to assess EVERY possibility and only use the demon as a fail safe. It's tempting to always want to get the 9/7 out just for the sake of having it out. Do not be tempted unless you HAVE to.
The Elves are a druid/shaman tribe. They have respect for mother nature. If you get Wrath of God, the Elves will have no choice to call to a higher being, the demon prince Ormendahl, Profane Prince.
I put a 1-of Westvale Abbey yesterday and I saw it one time the entire 3 rounds I played. In the very last round, I played against Jund. I eventually got 3 creatures on board (after the onslaught of removal spells on my other guys) and played Westvale Abbey as my 4th land. I passed the turn because my 3 creatures were just mana dorks and an Archdruid not doing anything and he had a Tarmogoyf he had just played (it was a 4/5). On his turn, he swung for 4 and got me to 2 life. At this point, I thought...I have 2 creatures in hand. If he doesn't kill anything, I can make the 9/7 and swing for 9 and be back at 11 and back in the game. Unfortunately, he saw this coming and decided to Damnation immediately after the swing. I lost that game, but I still won the round 2-1. Finished 3-0.
I don't have caverns either, in fact if I invest for lands it'll be horizon canopy first.
Thanks for the list, it looks pretty good, I think the abbey in place of one ezuri makes the most sense. (especially since I have had him extracted before, back before we had SotP, left me pretty bitter!)
I would say that against Zoo you shouldn't have a problem swinging for an early unblockable lethal with a surprise elvish champion in a lot of games. Forestwalk ftw. I won a lot back a couple years ago with it in a warrior overrun build, decks with green were easy matchups if he stuck.
Zoo decks will have a field day just bolting the Elvish Champion and blocking whatever.
That Westvale Abbey tech seems like I could use it essentially against any deck that doesn't run white. I'm diggin' it. I'll try it out tomorrow then as a 1-of in the deck.
EDIT: I never realized it had haste. That makes it so much better.
I'm not a Modern Allies player, but it was one of my first decks for me to top 8 a PTQ back in 2010 (Naya Allies standard). I love the archetype and plan on trying it out.
Just thought I'd come in and let you know that Naya Allies has been featured in the recent Starcity Games premium video series with Tom Ross piloting it vs. Brad Nelson on Burn. He took down burn in a 3-2 win (this is including 2 games of pre-board and 3 games of post-board).
Sorry I keep bringing up the RG Tron match up since they're the deck I'm mainly afraid of, but has anyone considered Fresh Meat? Not so much for the early turn Pyroclasm, but for the Ugin -X ability and the Oblivion Stone. Basically, having 4 mana is pretty easy to get to and having 1 Fresh Meat in hand allows us to really commit to the board. And if they exhaust everything to cast O-stone and then pop it on the same turn to blow up something like 4 creatures, we'll have 12 power on board on the back swing. Same with casting Ugin and then going -X. Doesn't seem terrible, but I'm not sure...
EDIT: This was only because I saw Caller of the Claw, but I know it's not Modern legal.
My first thought of Mark of Asylum when I tested it. Tron and scapeshift both mainboard answers to it. Oblivion Stone and Cryptic Command. Tender isn't great but still working on what I'll do to answer most damage wrath effects. Overall there is no "one" answer to all of them. Many instants are pretty good but require holding up mana for a spell which might not happen which in turn slows us down. I'm in favor of a permanent to answer them but unsure of which.
@Anaestheticz I think casting Burrenton Forge-Tender or Mark of Asylum from hand slow us down equally. Funny enough, anger, K-Return, and pyroclasm slow us down a lot more lol.
Yep yep. Though Mark has repeated use rather than Burrenton's one time use. Regardless, I still can't seem to find anything better than those 2 against our worst matchups.
As of late, I've been trying out Mark of Asylum in the sideboard slot in place of Burrenton Forge-Tender. It's been going well. It blanks RG Tron's Pyroclasm, Kozilek's Return, and depending on some different lists of RG Tron, even blanks Firespout. Currently running 3 Mark of Asylums in the board only because our matchup for the most part against most decks is pretty decent anyways so I decided to really focus on not auto-losing to Anger effects.
For the GB players out there, maybe run fetchlands and a single Plains/Temple Garden or something just for the Mark of Asylums if you decide you want to give it a shot. It even blanks Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle on your creatures :3
EDIT: The only reason I'm not a fan of Burrenton Forge-Tender recently is only because by turn 2, we'll have either of the following scenarios:
1 Mana dork + 1 Elvish Archdruid
OR
3 Mana dorks
OR
1 Mana dork + 1 Heritage Druid + 1 something + Elvish Archdruid
OR
1 Mana Dork + 1 Heritage Druid + 1 Dwyen's Elite + 1 Token + Elvish Archdruid
Anyways, regardless, against a deck that mainboards x4 Angers or x4 Pyroclasm + x4 Kozilek's Return, I'm not sure I'd want to rely on a Chord for Burrenton when they're best play to shut you down is a turn 2 pyroclasm. It's too scary :3. And I'm not a fan of a turn 1 Burrenton Forge-Tender because then that just slows you down a lot. Plus, it doesn't protect you from Kozilek's Return since Kozilek's Return is considered colorless via Devoid mechanic.
Ok, that makes sense. Plus, I love the reasoning behind why it's called Chaos Elves (because there is no Order which is the opposite of Chaos). Totes diggin' the name.
With that said, despite in the 30+ pages ago being a huge advocate of GW Lead the stampede, I may go to a GBw Chord list for the SCG Dallas/FW event coming up next weekend. Right now, I'm expecting lots of Abzan Company and such and feel that the toolbox from Chord may be necessary. Also, I plan on running 3-4 Lead the Stampedes in the sideboard though for the grindy matchups.
As far as the Nettle Sentinels are concerned, I'm not sure I'll be running 4. I may do a 2-2 Nettle/Warcaller split so my top decks aren't as terrible.
Against Titanshift, their out is to kill you with Scapeshifting while having Prismatic Omen out. They can easily just put way over 70+ damage to your life total, but Prismatic Omen has to be out. Just remember that if you have Chord of Calling and Reclamation Sage main against this match up, you can blow them out.
Not exactly, but that would mean you would need x4 Westvale Abbey and like x4 Sylvan Scrying and Expedition Map and stuff. That'd be strange, but if you want to try it, go for it.
Unlike its legacy counter-part, Nettle Sentinels are only good early game with a Heritage Druid during the time we want to win. Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen since we don't have cards like Green Sun Zenith for early shenanigans. Also, because we're not combo, we don't need it.
Joraga serves the same purpose early on like Nettle Sentinel. You can play him turn 1 just to up your creature count if you do have a Heritage Druid out, but Joraga's versatility becoming a late game top deck power sink is also underestimated. Sure, he's a bad hit on Collected Company, but you're running 32+ creatures. You won't be choosing him.
I'm a fan of a 1-of Westvale Abbey right now, but I'm not cutting both Nykthos for it. My mana base is currently as followed:
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Westvale Abbey
That's 3 colorless mana sources. That may seem like a lot, but I've been doing just fine with them. I'm essentially an 18 land deck + Westvale Abbey (I put it in my creature slot). I haven't had many issues with it. On occasion I'll have a mana dork and a colorless source in hand, but I can afford to mulligan since I also run 3 Boreal Druids on top of the 4 Heritage Druids, 4 Llanowar Elves, and 4 Elvish Mystics since I'm on the GW plan.
Not sure where you're getting at as they both have completely different functions: one refuels your hand and one is just a 4/3 Trample beater.
The Elves are a druid/shaman tribe. They have respect for mother nature. If you get Wrath of God, the Elves will have no choice to call to a higher being, the demon prince Ormendahl, Profane Prince.
Don't forget that once you have an Ormendahl, Profane Prince on board, they can also clear it with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon.
Regardless, this route at least is much more favorable than having 5 dorks on board though :3
Zoo decks will have a field day just bolting the Elvish Champion and blocking whatever.
EDIT: I never realized it had haste. That makes it so much better.
I'm not a Modern Allies player, but it was one of my first decks for me to top 8 a PTQ back in 2010 (Naya Allies standard). I love the archetype and plan on trying it out.
Just thought I'd come in and let you know that Naya Allies has been featured in the recent Starcity Games premium video series with Tom Ross piloting it vs. Brad Nelson on Burn. He took down burn in a 3-2 win (this is including 2 games of pre-board and 3 games of post-board).
Decklist used:
4 Expedition Envoy
2 Firemantle Mage
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Harabaz Druid
4 Kabira Evangel
4 Kazandu Blademaster
2 Lantern Scout
4 Oran-Rief Survivalist
1 Forest
2 Plains
4 Ally Encampment
1 Arid Mesa
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Mana Confluence
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Path to Exile
2 Spellskite
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Lantern Scout
2 Ondu Cleric
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Wear
2 Lead the Stampede
2 Return to the Ranks
EDIT: This was only because I saw Caller of the Claw, but I know it's not Modern legal.
Yep yep. Though Mark has repeated use rather than Burrenton's one time use. Regardless, I still can't seem to find anything better than those 2 against our worst matchups.
For the GB players out there, maybe run fetchlands and a single Plains/Temple Garden or something just for the Mark of Asylums if you decide you want to give it a shot. It even blanks Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle on your creatures :3
EDIT: The only reason I'm not a fan of Burrenton Forge-Tender recently is only because by turn 2, we'll have either of the following scenarios:
1 Mana dork + 1 Elvish Archdruid
OR
3 Mana dorks
OR
1 Mana dork + 1 Heritage Druid + 1 something + Elvish Archdruid
OR
1 Mana Dork + 1 Heritage Druid + 1 Dwyen's Elite + 1 Token + Elvish Archdruid
Anyways, regardless, against a deck that mainboards x4 Angers or x4 Pyroclasm + x4 Kozilek's Return, I'm not sure I'd want to rely on a Chord for Burrenton when they're best play to shut you down is a turn 2 pyroclasm. It's too scary :3. And I'm not a fan of a turn 1 Burrenton Forge-Tender because then that just slows you down a lot. Plus, it doesn't protect you from Kozilek's Return since Kozilek's Return is considered colorless via Devoid mechanic.