If it helps the pms from Alpha for my night actions are that I sit in a pentagram type thing (my word not AI's) and chant/do magic until an image appears.
There was a blue glow in the room when I investigated arimnaes.
When I roleblocked Cyan a transluscent hand rose from the middle of the circle and flew through the door to the room I was in. That was it - I got no indication as to success.
I don't think I can explain my reasoning anymore than I have but I'll try. I didn't trust Cyan to kill Seppel because I suspected he (Cyan) was SK. To me it was more likely that he would take out Axelrod (for the daykill) or the tracker. Or even arimnaes. I was sure that Jordman would be protected by the doc. I figured a roleblock was better than a doc protect because I could protect all three by not allowing him a kill at all.
I don't know what the flavour of any RB pm might look like - I wasn't even given confirmation as to its success. I did assume it would be more spell like though.
@Cyan: Did the pm give you any reason to suspect that the door wasn't closed magically? [Gaming the Mod] It would be a bit of a dead give away as to me telling the truth about my claim if it said 'magic stops you from X'
I don't really see how Cyan could be responsible for one of these kills and be roleblocked. I'm actually starting to doubt he is the SK. Unless he is untargetable. [Gaming the Mod] That seems super powerful though - a free lynch and untargetability and SK.
I did block Cyan. I didn't feel he had been given sufficient direction, and he hadn't agreed to a list provided by us. I certainly wasn't confident he would kill using the list anyway.
Does this imply that he isn't an SK? Three kills is a lot when the SK has been blocked.
I've got very limited access to the net at the moment. Could only skim read so I cant make a firm assessment of people's attitudes. I'll be back to normal by tuesday.
Seems like its Nis vs Ace with a smattering of self sacrifice (Exsam) as the current directions. Ace has piqued my interest as a lurker but Seppel seems to be defending Nis and that does not speak well for him. I prefer Nis to Ace for that reason. I need to read the thread properly though.
I repeat that I got a result that arimaes is town. (More reason for me to distrust cyan).
I still think we should be testing Cyan again. What does it hurt?
I would probably go back to Seppel after that pending a reread. Though it would be a loss for the game for no other reason than he makes me laugh.
@ Axelrod: I working off a list of character names, not players, but I see what you mean.
All those people who are assuming Cyan is an SK - if you think he is lying why are you taking all of what he says at face value? He could be lying about his kill condition, he could be lying about being unkillable. With all these questions, why wouldn't you test his lynchability again?
It doesn't hurt us to do it. It either:
Proves he was telling the truth about unlynchability (maybe he just had a bonus life)
Proves that he lied and we get an SK.
It is mildly inconvenient to have to do it again, but there is no disadvantage to trying.
unvote, Vote Cyan
If he doesn't swing this time we try and direct his 'vig'. And then deal with what comes next tomorrow.
Fote (fake vote) Seppel - I still think he has been scummy, I would just like to run this first.
This went too fast for my liking. I would have liked more discussion on the benefits of a claim before running in to it. I also think there was value in seeing who people wanted to claim in order. Whatever.
I have several one off abilities.
I used one N0 - I investigated arimnaes (because I remembered him as a prominent player) and got town - which is why I was against his wagon. Didn't say anything because he was never under threat of lynch (and Axelrod was hesitant to Daykill - I did try to divert him from that course of action)
I can protect myself one night.
I can roleblock one night.
I can protect someone else one night.
Flavour is that they are spells.
Cyan is making me increasingly uncomfortable.
Still don't see a better alternative than Seppel though.
Its going to be hard for me to participate for the next few days. Our rabbit <hangs head in shame> chewed through the power chord to this laptop and exposed the copper. I shouldn't be on it now. Anyway I'll get on when I can - I'll charge it up as much as I can. My girl will be getting a new work laptop soon which I'll be able to use - just a matter of when.
Cop and doc are out what more is there to lose? That is a genuine question - what other roles are likely to be valuable? A vig? Others? Is it worth telegraphing all the potential roles to catch scum out? Is there an advantage to having all the power roles known?
If we were to decide to name claim, then it shouldn't be random. I like the idea that people should post their preferred lists. I'll post mine in tomorrow - need to do a reread to make a complete list.
I'm still happy to be voting Seppel. There has been plenty of people discounting the case against him but I don't feel my case has been sufficiently rebutted - particularly since the chief rebuttal people have laid against those supsicions has been related to people getting stuck on the claim and I believe I presented 9 (admittedly some were speculative) reasons for voting him.
I've also done some thinking regarding what might be the mix of characters that are scum:
1) No theme - just random
2) Bad guys with false claims
3) A Theme:
a) A show
b) people with a bad streak - would side with Fox (faith spike)
c) people who are dead in their respective shows - Would side against whedon (Ben, Nandi, Wash)
d) Selfish Characters (Captain Hammer, Dr Horrible, Jayne, Spike)
e) characters who don't want whedon to write any more - anyone bitter about the lot whedon wrote them (Buffy, Echo, River)
f) or something I haven't thought of.
Not that useful yet but when some scum float to the surface it might be more useful.
PS I think that if Axelrod wants to hear arimnaes' claim then then he should get the town to put the pressure on. Bullying with a Dayvig isn't helping the town imo.
arimnaes should only claim if he is at lynchable votes. I don't support an arimnaes wagon.
OH NOOOOOO I DIDN'T VOTE SOMEONE I VOTED BEFOOOOOORE!!!!!
Looks like you're scum if you vote for anyone else than me then, lol.
Running in with a misrep and saying "to be fair" to cover it up because otherwise he has no substance, and also previously admitting that my reason was "gut," which to me is a concrete reason in the making.
The two statements you refer to are part of the same argument.
It is not a problem that you didn't vote someone you have voted previously. The scumminess is in how you are happy to cast suspiscion (through votes and accusations) on almost half the town without justification.
By justifiction I mean some plausible elaboration on the reason for your vote that includes evidence of why you think those people are scummy.
Having a 'gut feeling' isn't a valid explanation imho. It doesn't help others evaluate your suspiscions. It isn't helpful in finding scum - in fact through confusion and potential wagoning it more likely helps scum.
That is not a misrepresentation of your posts. Its my interpretation of them.
You split those two statements up like they were separate and then argued it was a misrepresentation which is in turn misrepresentative.
And who benefits from a misrepresentation? Scum. That much we can agree on.
Reasons:
1. Buffy isn't likely to be a vanilla role.
2. He screwed around with a variety of claims.
3. I feel like his big initial post could have been a post restriction because he is the singing demon from buffy season 5
4. He has voted a lot trying to start a wagon (arimnaes, Axelrod, MandersHex and Madmanquail)
5. His vote on Madmanquail was absolutely ridiculous (as I noted above I think its pretty common to leave the computer on unattended - certainly not a scum tell)
6. His initial vote on arimnaes goes unexplained as far as I can tell (I read arimnaes as town - I thought he was right in asserting that name claiming was not good, and feel he has been pretty forthright)
7. Even though he declared he thought Arimnaes was scum, he asked Arimnaes to be the one determinng whether he should claim - seems off
8. He throws accusations across the entire game without giving justifiable reasons
9. He is happy to be misrepresentative to turn an argument against someone
red= recent developments
I accept that 1 and 3 aren't are only hunches on my part. It is the sum total that garners my vote not those alone. Feel free to address the remaining points though.
I think the majority of my reasoning is sound. Its not a single event that made me vote him but a combination of factors that I expressed here.
Since then I haven't been satisfied by his explanations of why he votes for people. Gut feeling? I understand that some of this game is based on hunches but his voting is too chaotic. None of his votes help us hunt scum. Especially since he makes almost no attempt to justify them - otherwise its just stirring #### and creating more confusion.
Since my last post against him he has accused at least four more people (yes - including me), none of which he had voted for previously and none of which he provided a concrete reason with which to attack them (though to be fair I cant judge how town Nis 'sounds/reads' as I haven't played with him recently (if at all - haven't played for two years)).
@ All those who wanted a name claim: I asked the question already - what did the name claim achieve? Kindly answer.
I hate that you all have time now to talk this out and I have to go to work and miss it. The suspense will kill me.
Quote from Axelrod »
What else is there?
I think I made a reasonable case against Seppel. He has done scummy things besides the crazy claim. Some are more powerful than others. On a whole though I think they make it the right choice for lynch.
Buffy does /= defiinite power role. BUTthe likelihood is good that it would be imho. Combined with his other actions I find it too convenient that he is vanilla.
If Daykill doesn't end the day then a Seppel kill is the right call - I think... I haven't really had a chance to think it right through.
I wanted to see what Arim had to say about me claiming and unfortunately it didn't help me learn more about his alignment at all. I've noticed that I usually latch onto Arim, marking him as scum early on without having a very good read and I was hoping that his response would clear things up.
I still feel like he's scum.
How was it going to reveal anything? That is pretty weak.
Bad reason, as explained above, including the fact that I'm vanilla.
a) I understand what your point is. But given how I feel about your other actions it becomes relevant. That list of mine isn't prioritised - its not the strongest reason I have to vote you.
b)You'll excuse me for not taking you at your word on being vanilla
One claim: Captain Hammer. And I made it clear that I was going to screw around with that one.
No, you screwed around with two claims - you are just trying to pull the current one off as true. And you certainly made nothing clear. We all shared our fave character. Only you acted up.
Now that's just silly.
PKB
I don't think it is that unreasonable. He's a pretty iconic villain (even with such a short appearance), and you played just like him.
I use my vote to scumhunt.
How is what you're doing votewise hunting? You don't post much in the way of reasons, you seem more like you're happy to vote what seems easy rather than genuinely hunt. Trying to deflect attention from yourself too.
It wasn't that he asserted that the name claim wasn't good. It was about HOW he asserted that feels off to me.
WHAT about 'how' feels off?
Horrible idea. This day has gone on for what, 5 days? I've shown up for all of 18 hours? QL is a bad idea to propose.
18hrs has been long enough to get a serious stench of scum from you.
I'm comfortable with my vote.
Now, before the day wraps up - what does the name claim achieve?
I've been sleeping all night, actually. It's now 10:00am my time, i woke up to a crapton of posts (~100 i think) and i've just spent about an hour reading through.
And yeah, i still like my vote on you
I do this ALL the time. Yesterday was Australia Day, I got axed and left the thread open from 10pm till all hours of the morning. I go to work and get back and the thread pages jump from 20 to 30. Crivens.
When I first read Seppel's post I didn't pick up on the Hammer claim (I'm slow). Looking back at it I'm reminded most of the Musical Demon in Buffy season 5. All rhyme and visuals rather than prose.
Quote from cyan »
Your joke sucks.
Vanilla is not a believable claim for Buffy.
You may not have liked it but I thought his joke was hilarious. My girlfriend wondered why I was laughing so hard.
Despite the hilarity, I'm going to unvotevote Seppel.
Reasons:
1. Buffy isn't likely to be a vanilla role.
2. He screwed around with a variety of claims.
3. I feel like his big initial post could have been a post restriction because he is the singing demon from buffy season 5
4. He has voted a lot trying to start a wagon (arimnaes, Axelrod, MandersHex and Madmanquail)
5. His vote on Madmanquail was absolutely ridiculous (as I noted above I think its pretty common to leave the computer on unattended - certainly not a scum tell)
6. His initial vote on arimnaes goes unexplained as far as I can tell (I read arimnaes as town - I thought he was right in asserting that name claiming was not good, and feel he has been pretty forthright)
7. Even though he declared he thought Arimnaes was scum, he asked Arimnaes to be the one determinng whether he should claim - seems off
I believe that he is now at 8. If we are commited to nameclaiming (against my better judgement) then we should wrap it up and then finish by voting Seppel. Axelrod hasn't claimed - who else hasn't?
In other news my in-laws are here for a few days. I should be able to check in but not definitely. Depends on the number of posts I see when I wake up. I can't play at work (busy and blocked - damned public service).
There was a blue glow in the room when I investigated arimnaes.
When I roleblocked Cyan a transluscent hand rose from the middle of the circle and flew through the door to the room I was in. That was it - I got no indication as to success.
I don't know what the flavour of any RB pm might look like - I wasn't even given confirmation as to its success. I did assume it would be more spell like though.
@Cyan: Did the pm give you any reason to suspect that the door wasn't closed magically? [Gaming the Mod] It would be a bit of a dead give away as to me telling the truth about my claim if it said 'magic stops you from X'
I don't really see how Cyan could be responsible for one of these kills and be roleblocked. I'm actually starting to doubt he is the SK. Unless he is untargetable. [Gaming the Mod] That seems super powerful though - a free lynch and untargetability and SK.
His reasoning for not doing it seems fair enough, but even with jordman's erratic style it would have been the conventional move for arimnaes.
Even had I decided to use my doc ability I would have targeted arimnaes anyway, not jordman (based on the above assumption).
I did block Cyan. I didn't feel he had been given sufficient direction, and he hadn't agreed to a list provided by us. I certainly wasn't confident he would kill using the list anyway.
Does this imply that he isn't an SK? Three kills is a lot when the SK has been blocked.
Seems like its Nis vs Ace with a smattering of self sacrifice (Exsam) as the current directions. Ace has piqued my interest as a lurker but Seppel seems to be defending Nis and that does not speak well for him. I prefer Nis to Ace for that reason. I need to read the thread properly though.
I repeat that I got a result that arimaes is town. (More reason for me to distrust cyan).
I still think we should be testing Cyan again. What does it hurt?
I would probably go back to Seppel after that pending a reread. Though it would be a loss for the game for no other reason than he makes me laugh.
@ Axelrod: I working off a list of character names, not players, but I see what you mean.
All those people who are assuming Cyan is an SK - if you think he is lying why are you taking all of what he says at face value? He could be lying about his kill condition, he could be lying about being unkillable. With all these questions, why wouldn't you test his lynchability again?
It doesn't hurt us to do it. It either:
- Proves he was telling the truth about unlynchability (maybe he just had a bonus life)
- Proves that he lied and we get an SK.
It is mildly inconvenient to have to do it again, but there is no disadvantage to trying.unvote, Vote Cyan
If he doesn't swing this time we try and direct his 'vig'. And then deal with what comes next tomorrow.
Fote (fake vote) Seppel - I still think he has been scummy, I would just like to run this first.
I have several one off abilities.
I used one N0 - I investigated arimnaes (because I remembered him as a prominent player) and got town - which is why I was against his wagon. Didn't say anything because he was never under threat of lynch (and Axelrod was hesitant to Daykill - I did try to divert him from that course of action)
I can protect myself one night.
I can roleblock one night.
I can protect someone else one night.
Flavour is that they are spells.
Cyan is making me increasingly uncomfortable.
Still don't see a better alternative than Seppel though.
Its going to be hard for me to participate for the next few days. Our rabbit <hangs head in shame> chewed through the power chord to this laptop and exposed the copper. I shouldn't be on it now. Anyway I'll get on when I can - I'll charge it up as much as I can. My girl will be getting a new work laptop soon which I'll be able to use - just a matter of when.
Cop and doc are out what more is there to lose? That is a genuine question - what other roles are likely to be valuable? A vig? Others? Is it worth telegraphing all the potential roles to catch scum out? Is there an advantage to having all the power roles known?
If we were to decide to name claim, then it shouldn't be random. I like the idea that people should post their preferred lists. I'll post mine in tomorrow - need to do a reread to make a complete list.
I'm still happy to be voting Seppel. There has been plenty of people discounting the case against him but I don't feel my case has been sufficiently rebutted - particularly since the chief rebuttal people have laid against those supsicions has been related to people getting stuck on the claim and I believe I presented 9 (admittedly some were speculative) reasons for voting him.
I've also done some thinking regarding what might be the mix of characters that are scum:
1) No theme - just random
2) Bad guys with false claims
3) A Theme:
Not that useful yet but when some scum float to the surface it might be more useful.
arimnaes should only claim if he is at lynchable votes. I don't support an arimnaes wagon.
The two statements you refer to are part of the same argument.
It is not a problem that you didn't vote someone you have voted previously. The scumminess is in how you are happy to cast suspiscion (through votes and accusations) on almost half the town without justification.
By justifiction I mean some plausible elaboration on the reason for your vote that includes evidence of why you think those people are scummy.
Having a 'gut feeling' isn't a valid explanation imho. It doesn't help others evaluate your suspiscions. It isn't helpful in finding scum - in fact through confusion and potential wagoning it more likely helps scum.
That is not a misrepresentation of your posts. Its my interpretation of them.
You split those two statements up like they were separate and then argued it was a misrepresentation which is in turn misrepresentative.
And who benefits from a misrepresentation? Scum. That much we can agree on.
Please explain why it sucks. I'll even make it easy for you:
I accept that 1 and 3 aren't are only hunches on my part. It is the sum total that garners my vote not those alone. Feel free to address the remaining points though.
If by proof you mean 'explanation' then you've just done the same thing to me.
I'm off to work. May not get back on till Sunday (might get on tonight).
I think the majority of my reasoning is sound. Its not a single event that made me vote him but a combination of factors that I expressed here.
Since then I haven't been satisfied by his explanations of why he votes for people. Gut feeling? I understand that some of this game is based on hunches but his voting is too chaotic. None of his votes help us hunt scum. Especially since he makes almost no attempt to justify them - otherwise its just stirring #### and creating more confusion.
Since my last post against him he has accused at least four more people (yes - including me), none of which he had voted for previously and none of which he provided a concrete reason with which to attack them (though to be fair I cant judge how town Nis 'sounds/reads' as I haven't played with him recently (if at all - haven't played for two years)).
@ All those who wanted a name claim: I asked the question already - what did the name claim achieve? Kindly answer.
I think I made a reasonable case against Seppel. He has done scummy things besides the crazy claim. Some are more powerful than others. On a whole though I think they make it the right choice for lynch.
Buffy does /= defiinite power role. BUTthe likelihood is good that it would be imho. Combined with his other actions I find it too convenient that he is vanilla.
If Daykill doesn't end the day then a Seppel kill is the right call - I think... I haven't really had a chance to think it right through.
How was it going to reveal anything? That is pretty weak.
a) I understand what your point is. But given how I feel about your other actions it becomes relevant. That list of mine isn't prioritised - its not the strongest reason I have to vote you.
b)You'll excuse me for not taking you at your word on being vanilla
No, you screwed around with two claims - you are just trying to pull the current one off as true. And you certainly made nothing clear. We all shared our fave character. Only you acted up.
PKB
I don't think it is that unreasonable. He's a pretty iconic villain (even with such a short appearance), and you played just like him.
How is what you're doing votewise hunting? You don't post much in the way of reasons, you seem more like you're happy to vote what seems easy rather than genuinely hunt. Trying to deflect attention from yourself too.
WHAT about 'how' feels off?
18hrs has been long enough to get a serious stench of scum from you.
I'm comfortable with my vote.
Now, before the day wraps up - what does the name claim achieve?
I do this ALL the time. Yesterday was Australia Day, I got axed and left the thread open from 10pm till all hours of the morning. I go to work and get back and the thread pages jump from 20 to 30. Crivens.
When I first read Seppel's post I didn't pick up on the Hammer claim (I'm slow). Looking back at it I'm reminded most of the Musical Demon in Buffy season 5. All rhyme and visuals rather than prose.
You may not have liked it but I thought his joke was hilarious. My girlfriend wondered why I was laughing so hard.
Despite the hilarity, I'm going to unvote vote Seppel.
Reasons:
1. Buffy isn't likely to be a vanilla role.
2. He screwed around with a variety of claims.
3. I feel like his big initial post could have been a post restriction because he is the singing demon from buffy season 5
4. He has voted a lot trying to start a wagon (arimnaes, Axelrod, MandersHex and Madmanquail)
5. His vote on Madmanquail was absolutely ridiculous (as I noted above I think its pretty common to leave the computer on unattended - certainly not a scum tell)
6. His initial vote on arimnaes goes unexplained as far as I can tell (I read arimnaes as town - I thought he was right in asserting that name claiming was not good, and feel he has been pretty forthright)
7. Even though he declared he thought Arimnaes was scum, he asked Arimnaes to be the one determinng whether he should claim - seems off
I believe that he is now at 8. If we are commited to nameclaiming (against my better judgement) then we should wrap it up and then finish by voting Seppel. Axelrod hasn't claimed - who else hasn't?
In other news my in-laws are here for a few days. I should be able to check in but not definitely. Depends on the number of posts I see when I wake up. I can't play at work (busy and blocked - damned public service).