Since everyone is doing it... Modern is fine.
The game has evolved, we can accept it or ban everything to oblivion, back to battle cruiser standard levels.
I miss the days when the meta would stew for months , not just days before everyone start talking about bans.
Magic is not just the gathering of sideboards... sometimes sideboards are all it takes. At other times the upheaval is enough that
Decks must change to address the new meta.
Sideboards are a privilege to allow 60 cards to stay relatively the same.
It does not mean decks do not die and become obsolete.
That has been true since the dawn of magic as a game.
That is all.
- Depian
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arcane7828 posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)Posted in: Modern Archives -
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Torpf posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)Posted in: Modern Archives
Please don't.Quote from gkourou »Those last days of mtgsalvation mean there are not admins around anymore. That said anybody who wants to make inappropriate/illegal posts gets to have his chance now. Don't forget, everybody. Those are your last posts! You will have to look upon them for the time to come and we can look down on those posts and say "maybe it's for better that this forum came to an end". -
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Albegas posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)Posted in: Modern Archives
I'd argue the opposite. As you say, SFM is a win package. That means that unbanning it can potentially create new decks using Stoneforge as a win condition. In particular, if Legacy is any indicator, it'd open the way for more midrange oriented decks like Abzan or UWx midrange. That's not to say that this is guaranteed or even likely in any way, but it at least gives a possibility.Quote from pinkmex »also, wth do you guys/girls have going with SFM? why the obsession with this friggin' creature? it's only a win package. there's things way less deserving of being on the list, like jitte.
On the other hand, what does Jitte do for the meta? It doesn't really create new decks. It mostly just acts as an anti-creature tool and an anti-burn tool, neither of which is really necessary given Modern's card pool. So while a deck running Jitte likely won't be meta-defining because of Jitte, it won't generate anything new either.
So if I had to choose between the two, I'd much rather have Stoneforge back, and unless there's a huge spike in the quantity and quality of creature decks, I'd rather see other cards come off the list before Jitte. -
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Albegas posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)Pretty sure with Hogaak, it'll depend on 3 things:Posted in: Modern Archives
- Is the data they have sufficient enough to determine if Hogaak needs a ban?
- Is the strain it's putting on sideboards too high?
- Is it winning too often before T4?
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cfusionpm posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)I mean, if we can agree that the Turn 4 rule no longer exists, then sure, Modern is fine.Posted in: Modern Archives -
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pinkmex posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)Posted in: Modern ArchivesQuote from cfusionpm »Quote from MikePemulis »UW beats Hogaak on the back on Monastery Mentor. Love it.
I can't wait to see people use this to justify why Hogaak shouldn't be banned.
It shouldn't -
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Spsiegel1987 posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)I mean, Phoenix is definitely a quiet offender. It had fantastic results at the MC tournament, but due to limited I don't think Phoenix was properly represented.Posted in: Modern Archives
I very much think faithless looting is becoming an issue for modern and could go down the road of Probe. No, faithless looting is not to nerf Hoogak decks, it's an overall meta health issue. -
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metalmusic_4 posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)Posted in: Modern ArchivesQuote from Spsiegel1987 »Haha, Hoogak swings for 17 on turn 2 against burn, and Reid Duke on commentary says that wasn't even the best hand.
This is definitely worthy of an emergency ban.
I don't even know what should be banned, I think it'll honestly take both pieces of something.
Hoogak was an extremely horribly designed mistake, and they printed this for modern so there's no excuse to say it slipped their radar.
I missed that game on channel fireball, I was watching the SCG broscast. Over on SCG hogaak was prevalent, but looked no more prevalent than humans or izzet pheonix. At the begining of the day the commentators were openly talking how how broken it was and which cards would be the most likely ban/bans to nerf it. But by the end of the broadcast they were saying things like, "This meta didn't look to bad."
It is explosive, is a top teir deck, and may still dominate these and other tournaments, but we should really hold judgement on a ban unroll we get a few more results than what we have. People at different times sought bans on goyf, deaths shadow, mox opal, not to mention more recent ones like looting or ancient stirrings. Does everyone remember when cheerios was new and everyone was worked up? Hogaak has only been legal about 2 weeks, we will see what WOTC does at the B&R but we as a community have to be more patient than this short amount of time.
Edit: Here is a legacy example: mental misstep was released May 13th 2011 and wasn't banned until Sept 20th 2011. I think most of us agree mental misstep should certainly be banned in legacy and it was very oppressive, but even for thar egregious card it was legal for FOUR MONTHS. I just don't feel 2-3 weeks is enough time to force deck evolutions and determine long lasting decisions like a ban. -
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ktkenshinx posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)Posted in: Modern ArchivesQuote from Nyzzeh »Wait a minute, just after the deck gets released and abused and is obviously broken and I point that out most of you call me a flamer or a troll, and now you are all saying it should get banned. LOL.
Next time, learn from the master...
Then I make 1 mistake out of 10 and people call me bad because I have a 10% failure rate. Suuuure :).
You have predicted and/or called for bans/nerfs on Tron cards, ETemple, Chalice, Past in Flames, Traverse the Ulvenwald, Dredge, and now Hogaak Bridge. That's one hit in Dredge, five misses (Tron cards, Temple, Chalice, PiF, Traverse), and one ommision (no KCI). If Hogaak gets banned, you'll be 2 for 7 or 2 for 8, depending on how you score. This is exactly what I was referring to when I talk about throwing darts at a board. If you throw enough, you are bound to hit and then give acclaim to predictive skills when the record clearly shows a less flattering hit rate.
Again, Hogaak may be capital B Busted. It may be bannable. But that doesn't mean we change proven ban prediction methods because the hysteria and alarm was right one time in 10+. -
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MikePemulis posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 20/05/2019)Posted in: Modern ArchivesQuote from The Fluff »Quote from FoodChainGoblins »
**Umezawa's Jitte does not need to be unbanned. Hogaak and hopefully Bridge will eventually get banned. Please don't use this argument. It's funny that Ross Merriam believes that Jitte should be unbanned, but not Stoneforge Mystic. WTF?!?!?! Jitte further pushes people to play their's first to win creature matches (much of Modern) or play (non creature) Combo to avoid losing to those. I played during Jitte Standard. I know a lot has changed. I still think Jitte would be too much, close to what Punishing Fire does, except it is colorless.
played legacy for some years, and my opinion is we are in for some tough games if Jitte is unleashed into modern.
This equipment is some people won't realize it is broken until seen in action.
I used to think Jitte was fine. But then I built a cube and played Jitte in creature matchups. It just dominates those games.
Stoneforge is totally fine, but Jitte would be too much. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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80/20 is probably an exaggeration but I think there are some one-sided matchups like Tron being favored vs any BGx or Martyr Proc being a real pain for Burn. These matchups don't come that often, but when they do you know from turn 1 you are going to have a hard time no matter what you do.
Regarding the pros results, the data we have includes byes? Because I think byes have a lot more to do with the actual MWP than format health itself:
Imagine a pro going 3-3 (3 byes and 0-3), then drop, they still have a 50% MWP counting byes or 0% if we don't count them
Next GP, they go 12-3 (3 byes + 9-3) and their MWP is 80% or 75% if we don't count byes
They would have a total record of 15-6 (6 byes and 9-6) which is above 71% counting byes and 60% counting games where they actually had to play.
On the other hand, a player with just 1 bye with the same results for played games, would be 1-3 drop for GP#1 with a MWP of 25%
The results would be 10-3 having to play another 2 rounds for GP#2, MWP = 76,9%
In total this player has a WMP of 64,7% while the MWP of actually played games is 60% (same as the pro)
So with the same results of played games, the pro is always going to have that edge that comes only from byes.
Since pros play less rounds each GP and the format is so diverse, they are bound to play against a smaller variety of decks than a player with less byes, so if they are lucky enough to dodge the bad matchups, they are more likely to put a good result in a particular GP. This doesn't increase their global winrate since they are going to face those decks in the same percentage as the other players in the long run but it makes a bigger window for having "the good day" where they dodge them and make a good result.
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The thing is, Liliana is a 3-mana card (that's an issue) that doesn't do much regarding our strategy, at best we are discarding 1 more card each turn to pump Adept or reduce the cost of a Hollow One, I think you should be better keeping Angler in the deck as it does more relevant things an will almost always cost 1 or 2 mana.
In the sideboard I don't play Damping Sphere nor Blood Moon but I think the Sphere would probably better as you can play it on turn 2 when you are on the draw and still prevent your opponent from having 7 mana on turn 3, which you can't with Blood Moon, and also the fact that Sphere is good vs Storm, and that's a a deck that I expect to see a lot now that Dredge is dominating the format since it has a good pairing versus it.
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Unfortunately Goblin Lore is quite irreplaceable as it enables Hollow One by itself, Cathartic Reunion has another drawback and it is that you need another 2 cards in hand to cast it, which you sometimes can't and to put the cherry on the cake, if it gets remanded you are probably too much behind to win that game. That's why Goblin Lore is much better here even if it's a random discard, drawing and then discarding is also usually better. You can play with Cathartic but it will be subpar.
I am also playing Bridgevine and it is more explosive and wins more times on G1 BUT it also folds much harder to graveyard hate as it can't do much without a graveyard and doesn't usually play green to deal with it, here you can put a lot of pressure even if the opponent starts with a Leyline of the Void as you can still beat with Flameblade Adept and cast your Hollow One quite early.
Bridgevine is still not as refined and might become better but right now, I think Hollow One should perform better. As Bridgevine is getting so much attention, sideboards are full of graveyard hate, Hollow One can fight it better and it's still able to do some nasty things on the early game
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I like to play 1 Grim Lavamancer in my maindeck, I removed Tasigur, the Golden Fang to make room for it. If you expect Burn I wouldn't advise removing Collective Brutality as it's your best card for the matchup. IMO the best card against Humans is Fatal Push as their creatures are sometimes too large to kill with just 2 damage
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Then take out 2 delve cards (as they don't work well with Grim Lavamancer), 4 Bloodghast (not great in this matchup) and 2 Flamewake Phoenix (you are probably only going to bring 1 or 2 as you want to be open to play your removal spells or activate Grim Lavamancer), maybe you want to take out another card to make room for 1 Ancient Grudge to kill their Inkmoth Nexus but I think you can be fine without it, you would already have 3 Fatal Push, 4 Lightning Bolt, 2 Engineered Explosives and 3 Grim Lavamancer to deal with their creatures.
Remember to use your removal spells at the end of their turn if possible so you don't get blown out by pump spells or protections before damage and you should be fine
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Regarding your deck, I like the 1 of Become Immense as it forces them to play around it once they've seen it but I think maybe you could move 1 Grim Lavamancer to the sideboard and make room for the second Hooting Mandrills.
I love Noose Constrictor and is a creature for Vengevine so I would definitely play those instead of Burning Inquiry, if you take that route it might make sense to increase the Number of Flamewake Phoenix as you would have more cards to trigger it, to make some room you might want to move Lightning Bolt to the sideboard as Grim Lavamancer already fills the role of throwing damage in small chunks wherever you need.
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Non-miracles lists seem to play less copies since it won't help them set up a Miracle spell to stabilize against aggresive decks like Humans or Hollow One, but you will still like to have 1 or 2 copies against interactive decks.
So, yes, if you buy it I think you would like to play it. Regarding the price tag, I have no idea if it's going to go up or down and I feel like this is not the right thread to discuss that but rather use the Official Modern Prices one: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/554992-modern-prices-discussion
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