Banner needs:
Haakon(center left) and Knight Exemplar(center right)
Black knights(Revised 3rd Edition) on the extreme left and White Knights (Revised 3rd Edition) on the extreme right.
I'll also need the title: "Legacy Knights" at a suitable location. Thanks!
Do you need to play 24 lands? It seems too many in a mono color deck with vial & spells mostly 3cc and below. As there isn't any ways to tutor Ghost Quarter perhaps you should include a playset to increases ur chance of drawing it. Trust me it's a bad feeling wishing for a topdeck knowing you only have 2 of them in the deck..
How about Hero of Bladehold or Kinsbaile Cavalier to replace Wrath of God? IMO Wrath & Exemplar is a very easily disrupted combo and Wrath is a dead card against combo. If your meta is mostly aggro, Oust or Dispense Justice (noticed you have many artifacts) might be added as additional removal.
whether or not sfm is a knight, she is one of the most powerful cards in legacy. i recommend 4, or at least testing with 4. i understand that running 2 of each sword plus 3 mystics gets what you need most of the time.
actually, as powerful as sols and sofi are, i'd recommend switching 1 of each out for other swords. just for testing, not permanently. without batterskull, having your only lifegain be sols could be detrimental, so sowp might help there, as well as beating down harder. it is also better against zoo, which is going to be good.
soff won't do much. sobm is something to try though. milling isn't always too relevant, but against combo it can be. against a similarly aggroish deck the 2/2 you get is huge. sobm is also the only remaining sword that gives pro green, which can be good to have.
again, these are only suggestions. i don't recommend just blowing them off; try it and see how you like it. generally more options is better.
also, oust will be better than condemn in my opinion. of all my suggestions this is the strongest. just hear me out:
- condemn has to have the creature attacking. this is huge. no stopping opposing SFMs before they get batterskull. no killing hierarchs or birds or grim lavamancers when you might need to the most. these are just some of the very few times when this ability will be detrimental. sure, oust is a sorcery, but a creature who just sits there without attacking and yet is still scary can be taken out just fine with it.
- condemn will generally have them gain more life; the chances of you worried about an attacking creature who's toughness is 3 or less is pretty low.
- most of the time you will want to use a removal like condemn early game, when you don't have a bunch of indestructible knights out. ousting a creature turn 2 won't allow them to cast it again until turn 4 generally; and think about it. will your really be that scared of a wild nicatel, goblin guide, tarmogoyf, even dark confidant two turns from then? probably not. bob that late would just serve as a chump blocker that might make them loose some decent amount of life. with you getting a whole turn to cast something plus whatever you get out from aether vial, tarmo and other big dumb beaters won't be scary at all any more.
my last suggestion off the top of my head is more grand abolishes in the side. those things are going to be crazy.
hope my insight helped.
I can see where you are coming from, playing 4 SFM, as we will always want to bring her on board. I'm just not so keen to take out another knight for her. Still, i'll try to add 4 at some stage and see how it goes.
With regards to choices on Swords, i choose them based also on the type of protection the decklist possess as a whole. Before adding any swords, we have:
Protection from B [6] +2 from SoLS
2 White Knight
3 Mirran Crusader
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
Protection from W [1] +2 from SoLS
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
Protection from G [3]
3 Mirran Crusader
Protection from R [0] +2 from SoFI
Nil
Protection from U [0] +2 from SoFI
Nil
Feel free to criticise if this is deem flawed analysis. The swords protection are tutorable thus more versatile but as a base we pretty much have covered all colors. Because of the 3 Mirran Crusader and 2 SoFI, i choose to leave out SoBM. Maybe i will replace one of the SoLS with SoWP.
I totally agree Oust is better, i know because i have been on the receiving end many times! In Modern we should have more time to cast Oust, and it also messes up opponent tempo as well. Good Recommendation!
In my experience Phyrexian Metamorph is a pretty damn good Knight Exemplar 5-8, especially since perfect number of Exemplars on board is two not one. It also doubles as "destroy target legendary creature", extra Sword, and in a few other roles depending on board situation. Paying two life is almost always irrelevant, and in your white/blue build even more so (kicker U gain 2 life).
Phyrexian Metamorph is good, but currently i cant even find space for 4x SFM, so i find it really hard to add this. I'll still put it in the sideboard at the moment. It's good against NO decks and Show and Tell but unless we play 4 ofs chances of casting them to kill a legend is quite remote.
I agree that O-Ring can fill the role that beast within does in most cases against the walkers. However beast within lets you attack Valakut itself and splinter twin at instant speed. Something O-Ring cannot do.
I find that having Stirring Wildwood gives me some reach against PW and is also a creature that avoids mass removal or is there to get that extra damage in and finish them. It gets the bonus from honor of the pure and it can block inkmoth or other flyers in a pinch as well. I run 3 Razorverge Thicket 3 Sunpetal and 4 wildwoods. All still create white mana and with 10 sources of green you often have the green available to activate the wildwood.
In playing 100's of games with this in the manabase I have problems from lands coming into play tapped slowing my tempo about 1 out of 20 games. It is a slight drawback but the power of the wildwood is good enough that I believe it makes the deck stronger than without it. This also opens up the ability to play beast within, naturalize or natures claim, which are better than revoke existance except for the case of wurmcoil or blightsteel.
In any case I still prefer playing it W/G for the wildwood alone. It's just a stronger deck that way. I have 3 builds of this with the knight core. W/G Mono White and a heavier equipment based version. W/G in my opinion is the best of the 3 very similar decks.
Nice recommendation on Stirring Wildwood , i didnt really like Razorverge Thicket as it usually comes into play tapped which messes my tempo frequently. Especially as we do not need the G mana early since Beast Within is usually a spell which isn't cast during the early turns.
I'll replace Razorverge with Wildwood. I guess i'll also keep beast within as with them i dont need to run teutonic edge which can make our mana base even more shaky.
I played Apostle's Blessing because my creatures was having a lot of problems with artifact related spells/effects in my meta. It was also partially because i wanted to try out a new card Anyway i have played both Emerged Unscathed & Brave the Elements before and the latter is strictly better.
@Nabbydian..id run Demystify or Revoke Existence before i would splash green. As for your build..i wouldnt run over 3 Heros..too many in ur opening hand isnt good..Id also run 4 skyhunters..IMO..i have to agree with khanbg..Apostle's Blessing isnt near as good as brave. id run -3 Apostle's + 2 braves + 1 Journey to Nowhere as for beast within..id cut it..we dont need green just for one card..id look into running Ajani and maybe more knights..20 creatures is a little low with 4 honors..
also u posted in the right spot this has became green/ white knights thread..
Demystify or Revoke Existence is too limited. I wanted to use beast because i need to kill Koth! Actually you are right, with Oblivion Ring we can do without the beast. Without Green i can go back to playing Emerias again.
yeah, i'll probably cut one Hero out as the mana curve looks a little on the high side.
yeah, my vote will be for Thoughtseize. Rip the best card off opponent's hand & looking at opponent's hand is a massive advantage. All the other choices seems to have some kind of drawback/limitations or for creatures, easily removed.
Anyway right now i'm trying to maximise the Type 2 knights experience as much as i can.
I have a list here, kindly let me know what you guys think.
I brought 4 pieces of Beast Within last month which i havent use at all yet. I choose to play this card because at the moment i feel mono-white has issues with planeswalker(post oblivion ring) & enchantments(since Divine offering can only kill artifacts). The 3/3 beast given to our opponent can be easily killed by a Honor or Exemplar pumped knight.
I know this is mono-white knights so do let me know if i should bring it somewhere..
I run Tithe in Legacy Knights to good effect and would probably try running Weathered Wayfarer in Modern Knights. Especially since they can fetch any land, which might make using Reliquary more manageable despite the sad deficit of Windswept Heath. Worth thinking about. You could Path to Exile them in some matches if they're being useless, too.
I also really like Mother of Runes in the Legacy deck -- she's just so great!! -- so that's very missed for Modern. Perhaps some of Brave the Elements, but that's pretty questionable, I dunno.
Unfortunately both Tithe and Mox Diamond are no longer available therefore it seems like Weathered Wayfarer is the closest alternative. However looking at the deck as a whole, i feel Knight of the White Orchid is better here considering you would have 12 one-drops (4x Vial + 4x Student + 4x Wayfarer) making the deck a bit too lightweight and a 2 drop fits the mana curve much better.
Anyway i would replace the Razorverge Thicket with Marsh Flats as with 2 pieces there seems to be a higher chance the land will come into play tapped. Sunpetal Grove might be better than it if yu insist on playing it.
Dude, use Haakon. Vial can cheat him into play just fine, and casting your men from the grave gives you real inevitability. Heck, I'd play Worldslayer. But then again, I'm dumb so ignore me.
I wanted to use Haakon, but Entomb and Buried Alive are both unavailable and i don't know of any other card which is able to dump them from library to graveyard which is legal in Modern format.
Over reliance on Aether Vial alone is bad as the probability of having both Haakon and Vial in the opening hand is extremely slim not to mention mistep/artifact hate on vial. I thought of using discard to drop Haakon but it seems too much of an effort and we have not even cast him yet.
If you're going down the Puresteel path, you could use Auriok Steelshaper as another lord.
Yeah, i like Auriok Steelshaper too, i'm just not sure after all the equipments,4 STF and 4 Auriok Steelshaper whether we have any more space for knight creatures. However the fact that the card gives knights a boost has always been lingering in my mind. I'm not sure how i can utilise him here.
The singletons are there because I'm not sure which color protection is the most relevant. I was also looking at the mana curve and didn't want too many 3 drops thus settling for 3 Mirran Crusader & 1 Stillmoon Cavalier. Currently the deck has plenty of protection against black and green(mirran), blue and red(SoFI), but very little protection against white.
Thanks for pointing out Silver Knight ineligibility, I'll probably replace it with another 2 drop knight or STM.
The banner will be for this thread.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=322579
Banner needs:
Haakon(center left) and Knight Exemplar(center right)
Black knights(Revised 3rd Edition) on the extreme left and White Knights (Revised 3rd Edition) on the extreme right.
I'll also need the title: "Legacy Knights" at a suitable location. Thanks!
Do you need to play 24 lands? It seems too many in a mono color deck with vial & spells mostly 3cc and below. As there isn't any ways to tutor Ghost Quarter perhaps you should include a playset to increases ur chance of drawing it. Trust me it's a bad feeling wishing for a topdeck knowing you only have 2 of them in the deck..
How about Hero of Bladehold or Kinsbaile Cavalier to replace Wrath of God? IMO Wrath & Exemplar is a very easily disrupted combo and Wrath is a dead card against combo. If your meta is mostly aggro, Oust or Dispense Justice (noticed you have many artifacts) might be added as additional removal.
I'm not sure if you are considering my request for a new banner, and once again i'm sorry for making multiple requests.
i'm pulling out my request on the new banner and i hope i haven't cost too much inconvienence to you.
Thanks again for the previous one you made.
I can see where you are coming from, playing 4 SFM, as we will always want to bring her on board. I'm just not so keen to take out another knight for her. Still, i'll try to add 4 at some stage and see how it goes.
With regards to choices on Swords, i choose them based also on the type of protection the decklist possess as a whole. Before adding any swords, we have:
Protection from B [6] +2 from SoLS
2 White Knight
3 Mirran Crusader
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
Protection from W [1] +2 from SoLS
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
Protection from G [3]
3 Mirran Crusader
Protection from R [0] +2 from SoFI
Nil
Protection from U [0] +2 from SoFI
Nil
Feel free to criticise if this is deem flawed analysis. The swords protection are tutorable thus more versatile but as a base we pretty much have covered all colors. Because of the 3 Mirran Crusader and 2 SoFI, i choose to leave out SoBM. Maybe i will replace one of the SoLS with SoWP.
I totally agree Oust is better, i know because i have been on the receiving end many times! In Modern we should have more time to cast Oust, and it also messes up opponent tempo as well. Good Recommendation!
I also agree we need more Grand Abolisher in the sideboard.
Thanks for the recommendations, my deck looks more tidy than before.
Phyrexian Metamorph is good, but currently i cant even find space for 4x SFM, so i find it really hard to add this. I'll still put it in the sideboard at the moment. It's good against NO decks and Show and Tell but unless we play 4 ofs chances of casting them to kill a legend is quite remote.
Nice recommendation on Stirring Wildwood , i didnt really like Razorverge Thicket as it usually comes into play tapped which messes my tempo frequently. Especially as we do not need the G mana early since Beast Within is usually a spell which isn't cast during the early turns.
At least wildwood provide us with an extra body and works well with Honor of the Pure and Day of Judgment
I'll replace Razorverge with Wildwood. I guess i'll also keep beast within as with them i dont need to run teutonic edge which can make our mana base even more shaky.
I played Apostle's Blessing because my creatures was having a lot of problems with artifact related spells/effects in my meta. It was also partially because i wanted to try out a new card Anyway i have played both Emerged Unscathed & Brave the Elements before and the latter is strictly better.
Demystify or Revoke Existence is too limited. I wanted to use beast because i need to kill Koth! Actually you are right, with Oblivion Ring we can do without the beast. Without Green i can go back to playing Emerias again.
yeah, i'll probably cut one Hero out as the mana curve looks a little on the high side.
Thanks for the comments!
Not to forget Student of Warfare and White Knight are also both gone so we are better off with mono-white creatures rather than knights deck with no knights left. Even subpar creatures like Knight of Cliffhaven and Caravan Escort are gone.
Anyway right now i'm trying to maximise the Type 2 knights experience as much as i can.
I have a list here, kindly let me know what you guys think.
I brought 4 pieces of Beast Within last month which i havent use at all yet. I choose to play this card because at the moment i feel mono-white has issues with planeswalker(post oblivion ring) & enchantments(since Divine offering can only kill artifacts). The 3/3 beast given to our opponent can be easily killed by a Honor or Exemplar pumped knight.
I know this is mono-white knights so do let me know if i should bring it somewhere..
4 Hero of Bladehold
4 Knight Exemplar
2 Leonin Skyhunter
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Student of Warfare
2 White Knight
3 Apostle's Blessing
4 Beast Within
1 Brave the Elements
Sorceries [3]
3 Day of Judgment
Enchantments [7]
1 Forced Worship
4 Honor of the Pure
2 Journey to Nowhere
4 Marsh Flats
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Sunpetal Grove
10 Plains
Unfortunately both Tithe and Mox Diamond are no longer available therefore it seems like Weathered Wayfarer is the closest alternative. However looking at the deck as a whole, i feel Knight of the White Orchid is better here considering you would have 12 one-drops (4x Vial + 4x Student + 4x Wayfarer) making the deck a bit too lightweight and a 2 drop fits the mana curve much better.
Anyway i would replace the Razorverge Thicket with Marsh Flats as with 2 pieces there seems to be a higher chance the land will come into play tapped. Sunpetal Grove might be better than it if yu insist on playing it.
I would still play 4x Marsh Flats due to it synergies with Knight of the White Orchid and Knight of the Reliquary.
The sideboard looks great, but with good access to G i will mainboard Qasali Pridgemage, taking out a few Knight of Meadowgrain.
My list will probably look something like:
-1 Horizon Canopy
-2 Razorverge Thicket
-1 Plains
+4 Marsh Flats
-4 Weathered Wayfarer
+4 Knight of the White Orchid
-2 Knight of Meadowgrain
+2 Qasali Pridemage
What is your take on these changes?
I wanted to use Haakon, but Entomb and Buried Alive are both unavailable and i don't know of any other card which is able to dump them from library to graveyard which is legal in Modern format.
Over reliance on Aether Vial alone is bad as the probability of having both Haakon and Vial in the opening hand is extremely slim not to mention mistep/artifact hate on vial. I thought of using discard to drop Haakon but it seems too much of an effort and we have not even cast him yet.
anyway thanks for suggesting Haakon
Yeah, i like Auriok Steelshaper too, i'm just not sure after all the equipments,4 STF and 4 Auriok Steelshaper whether we have any more space for knight creatures. However the fact that the card gives knights a boost has always been lingering in my mind. I'm not sure how i can utilise him here.
i'll also look at the Puresteel build, but i think it'll work better in an equipment theme rather than knights theme.
i'm attempting a primer, and will update it slowly, starting with creature selection first.
I'll build a green/white list shortly when I get sorted out with the lands.
Thanks for pointing out Silver Knight ineligibility, I'll probably replace it with another 2 drop knight or STM.
4.1) Mono White Modern Vial Knights
4 Knight of the White Orchid
3 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight Exemplar
3 Leonin Relic-Warder
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Student of Warfare
3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Spells [4]
4 Path to Exile
Artifacts [8]
4 Aether Vial
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Sword of Light and Shadow
Lands [21]
17 Plains
4 Mutavault
4 Brave the Elements
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Oust
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Relic of Progenitus
4.2) Green & White Modern Vial Knights - Deck pictures
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Mirran Crusader
3 Paladin en-Vec
4 Student of Warfare
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Spells [4]
4 Path to Exile
Enchantments [4]
4 Rancor
4 AEther Vial
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Lands [22]
2 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Marsh Flats
9 Plains
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Temple Garden
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Brave the Elements
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Relic of Progenitus
4.3) Green & White Modern Knights (Non-Vial) with credits to ShiroeTheEnchanter, Do check out ShiroeTheEnchanter's Alternate version here
4 Student of Warfare
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
1 Mirran Crusader
2 White Knight
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Non-creatures [11]
4 Path to Exile
3 Faith's Shield
1 Basilisk Collar
3 Rancor
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Temple Garden
7 Plains
3 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Sejiri Steppe
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Wrath of God
4.4) Mono White Modern Puresteel Knights - credits to original pilots AEIOUsometimesY and Nixx
4x Student of Warfare
4x Knight of the White Orchid
4x Puresteel Paladin
4x Knight Exemplar
4x Mirran Crusader
Spells [20]:
2x Brave the Elements
4x Aether Vial
4x Path to Exile
4x Silver-Inlaid Dagger
2x Basilisk Collar
2x Sword of Fire and Ice
2x Sword of Feast and Famine
20x Plains
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Wrath of God
2x Dispatch
2x Leonin Relic-warder
4x Ethersworn Canonist
4.5) Haakon's Darth Knights (Mono-Black) - credits to original pilot weltkrieg
4 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
4 Black Knight
4 Stromgald Crusader
4 Gravecrawler
4 Dark Confidant
3 Liliana of the Veil
Spells [15]
4 Smallpox
4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
3 Nameless inversion
4 Mutavault
18 Swamp
4.6) Haakon's Darth Knights (Black and Red)
4 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
4 Black Knight
4 Stromgald Crusader
4 Gravecrawler
1 Knight of Obligation
Planeswalker [3]
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
1 Darkblast
2 Nameless inversion
3 Faithless Looting
3 Arid Mesa
3 Marsh Flats
2 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
3 Mutavault
11 Swamp
4.7) Naya Vial Knights - by BlazeRyder
4 Knight Exemplar
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Knight of the White Orchid
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Student of Warfare
Spells [17]
4 AEther Vial
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Temple Garden
2 Plains
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
3 Arid Mesa
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
2 Brave the Elements
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stony Silence
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben