Darkblast, smallpox, liliana, dakmor salvage and cremate md to counter shaman targets and dredge more. Been testing a bit, its awesome! If opponent lands a leyline of the void though its gg unless you reach liliana ultimate.
Necroplasm is great versus Souls and imp versus big dudes. Anyone else want to give this a try?
I would cut Tendrils for Consume Spirit as you should have smallpox as mentioned. I would replace the mind rot with them. Also because you can not play ritual I would cut arena and hippie. As this is a budget version you should have the mana to squeeze in a couple of dream salvages after discard instead of arena. Also if budget allows bloodghast and spawning pool to negate pox effects. Shrieking may indeed be fun but maybe just 2.
Oh man that's a bummer, I did not realize Modern only covers Core sets and expansions, but thanks for the information. In that case, I'm afraid the deck idea is totally screwed :P. Without enough sac effects and man lands to abuse it, it loses too much potential.
For targeted removal I'd play Victim of Night, but then we are really going towards The Gate, which I'm not sure is worth it without all the Legacy cards that define it.
I have been playing Legacy The Gate and Pox for a long while in private tournaments and with friends mostly, but also in larger tournies. My private meta is quite similar to the larger tournaments. At the moment though, I feel sometimes that Legacy Pox is becoming a bit absurd, mostly in running all those 1-of Legend cards like Nether Void, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, The Abyss and Chains of Mephistopheles. Apart from the financial cost of these cards, I feel it's changing Pox in a way I don't like.
Additionally, Modern is popping up around me still more and more, so I might as well construct a Deck for it :). I decided to go for a Gateish variant of Pox (or MBC), trying to integrate both archetypes because of the loss of pre-Modern cards mentioned before, but also Bitterblossom and Jitte. Some ideas on a The Gate variant were archived some time ago here, but I feel that leaning towards Pox would be much more efficient, and I have more experience playing it.
In respective order, Bob is a must-have and at it's best combined with low-mana cost cards and the ability to sac it when needed. First strip opponent's hand from counters, then land him. Vampire Nighthawk was my 'most-happy-to-see' beater from the Gate. It packs so much potential in one; flyer, removal, lifelink. Even though I choose not to play Thoughtseize, its lifelink is still a very needed addition against Bob (running two Percies), Poxes and Urami (and Burn opponents, which Pox always struggles against) and there is no access to Spinning Darkness. Another reason for choosing Nighthawk is Funeral charm's potential of boosting him to gain more life. Lastly, Percy is again great because of the sacrifice effects, but most important provides the additional clock you may need when The Rack doesn't provide it. Again, Funeral charm helps this goal, as it provides Swampwalk gained with Urborg.
Considering Spells, Funeral charm does not see much play in Legacy Pox but I've always been a massive fan of it. Apart from reasons mentioned above, it kills all 1 toughness creatures of the opponent, being Bob, BoP, Goblins, Elves, Lavamancer, Clique, Snapcaster and many more. It also boosts Factories for defense against early Goyfs. Lastly, it provides instant discard which during topdecking is almost a free turn (play in response to draw step of opponent, two more cards to draw for you with Bob). The rest of the Spell package is the core of Legacy Pox (the Rack version). Wrench Mind is there to fill Hymns spot as the second {B}{B} sorcery. The choice of discarding one artifact is also not a bad thing for Pox as it struggles against utility artifacts rather often.
Then Lands. No Tectonic Edges as it works against Pox land sac effects, so instead Ghost Quarter to destroy Maze of Ith and other utility lands. Not running a Maze myself but may in the future if the basic land mana base is stable enough. Four Urborgs to make all lands produce black, countering life loss of Tomb aswell. Spare copies are easily discarded or sacced. No Spawing Pool, Howltooth Hollow or other CitPT lands as I find the tempo loss too great for this sort of deck.
At the moment the last sideboard I had looked like this, pretty random:
Shame no Perish or Dystopia can't be played in Modern, with all the Jund versions around. I have chosen not to play Ritual, but it may be your playstyle to do so. I simply find the card disadvantage too great (dark ritual into Bob or Nighthawk, which gets Exiled) and working against you more often than not. In a more Jund, UW heavy meta Damnation would probably be better used with MD Rituals.
Let me know what you guys think. I'm quite new to Modern but I feel this sort of deck should do very well.
Reason I ask about Ratchet: what happens when you meet a Pithing needle targeting mishra? At only one mana it should hit the board no problem and Liliana can only deal with it minimally. In these versions of MB pox Bloodghast is an awesome additional threat; they provide a really nice clock.
Great stuff. Did you not draw any scrolls? I'm still doubting whether to use it or not. For me it usually arrives too late. Also, what do you think some Ratchet bombs would have changed?
Agree with above comments. Nonetheless I run 3 nether spirits because often you need him fast as a blocker, which he is awesome at. I play my smallpoxes as soon as possible so its great to have him around then. I counter the extra copies somewhat by playing 2 tombstalkers. He's my finisher and big blocker (and great with funeral charm swampwalk). If you run wastes you will need urborg anyway. As mentioned another finisher is preferred, either a large beast (necroplasm for budget option) or cards like cursed scroll.
DRS is just another reason to be not so dependent on your gy, then it shouldn't hurt us only help themselves slightly. I'd face DRS any day rather than flash utility creatures. Tombstalker is as good as unaffected by DRS. Nether spirit can be lost but not early on so better remove DRS before it hits the gy. However with eternal witness around may want to play some gy hate MD if rampant in your meta.
I have never played without ratchet, usually MD. Pox is designed to stall so the delay isn't that problematic if you ask me. As mentioned its instant vs combo and a 2-turn wipe against tribals, vials (huge danger to Pox), BUG etc. I find it to be on par with abrupt decay in filling the role of versatile junk killer.
I like chains aswell but you do not seem to run any tech with it, such as Sensei? It's a neat way to dump stuff in your yard for 1 mana when you dont have a pox or liliana (e.g. nether spirit, bloodghast). Do you really need 4 of them just against brainstorms/ponders? Also to be able to answer your question: what is your meta like?
Other than the distinction between hand and land disruption both builds may also be gy dependent or not (as I said before), which suggests four different builds. This is important because the playstyle and cards between all four builds should be differently addressed.
Cards like big Pox, Bloodghast and high mana cards like Nether void and the abyss are directly related to your mana base management (whether this is through dark ritual or not) and thus related to your gy dependence.
Reason for this argument is that I play a gy independent hand disruption strategy which forces me to play more low mana cost threats with highly versatile use. The upside from this build is that all cards have a much higher chance of being useful at any point (e.g. I play 4 inquisitions, 1 duress, 4 hymns, 3 ratchets and 3 funeral charms MD), which is important as we have no drawing cards.
@purple. Well you mentioned the most important thing already. But it depends on so many things including luck that there is never a black/white answer. What sort of deck is your opponent playing if you can find out? How many lands is he likely to run? How important are his first creatures? Can you go all out for a lock (either discard or lands)? How many spare lands do you have yourself? You get the picture. The first game you play against someone is to try and find the answers to these sorts of questions. Like in other games, you are playing your opponent as much as you are playing his/her cards. The former is why I like Pox
On a sidenote, playing Pox to make hymn more effictive is a non-argument really. Also, I nearly always play smallpox first if there is a creature out and I have spare lands in hand. The psychology is better than hymn (although hymn is awful to take aswell). In these UGr/blade filled metas today I am much happier to draw a Pox.
@Jin15: I like the list and it is a more widely used list than most realize. More or less your 'package' (mind no sexual reference intended) kind of relates to the question whether you want to risk gy dependence. I prefer almost none at all (tombstalker only), which refers to a more common list of more single target removal, no rituals, ratchet, max 1 big pox, resource denial, etc. Apart from gy dependence I find dakmors tapped trigger utterly frustrating as it slows down the deck. And this is where the other difference comes to light: fast or less fast control, which is based on mana (big pox and the need for land recurrence). How do you see this?
- I'd recommend reading through the posts. The archetype is nowhere as black and white as other archetypes where 90% of the cards are fixed. You could make the distinction between Reid duke's list and 8pox but basically what you should ask yourself is whether you want to play a control list or an aggressive list. The first tends to go towards Reid duke's and the latter towards 8pox. However, many variations are possible. Ultimately you have to realize that the more poxes you want the more lands you will automatically need, regardless of the land recursion you want to play. And the other major issue is linked to this: how much GY dependence are you okay with in your meta?
- Reid duke's list plays/played Nether Void, which for 1 extra mana in a dark ritual build is worth it: Trinisphere will hurt you probably as much as or more than your opponent. Nether Void will make every card cost 3 extra mana, such as KotR.
- It's a different strategy, slightly more aggresive especially if you run 4.
- Not necessarily, it gets a lot better with 4 wastes and plent of poxes. If you don't run sinkholes or 8pox I'd cut the wastes too to allow for a more stable deck. But yes, I do think it's a key card for the archetype. Sinkhole isn't there for the basic lands, though versus Burn it's very good. It's all about additive effects. Things like: 2 swamps in play, play wasteland on your turn, then dark ritual, sinkhole, smallpox, sac waste. Make sure to pack GY hate versus maverick with all the LD.
Yes, 2 gftt and 1 victim should be plenty if you really worry about it. I do understand your problem, but is it really that often that it happens, especially with 8 pox? I'd stick to the theme if I were you and up the innocent bloods to 4 if you haven't already. Also like I mentioned before Funeral Charm gets rid of annoying weenies like mom entering battlefield, hierarch, birds, bob, arbor etc. Also, other than goyf at 2cmc or knight at 3 there shouldn't be too much that can hit the board if you think ahead of what an opponent is after. Run the proper gy hate or bombs against vials and your LD should do the rest.
4x stinkweed imp
4x necroplasm
4x bloodghast
Darkblast, smallpox, liliana, dakmor salvage and cremate md to counter shaman targets and dredge more. Been testing a bit, its awesome! If opponent lands a leyline of the void though its gg unless you reach liliana ultimate.
Necroplasm is great versus Souls and imp versus big dudes. Anyone else want to give this a try?
For targeted removal I'd play Victim of Night, but then we are really going towards The Gate, which I'm not sure is worth it without all the Legacy cards that define it.
I have been playing Legacy The Gate and Pox for a long while in private tournaments and with friends mostly, but also in larger tournies. My private meta is quite similar to the larger tournaments. At the moment though, I feel sometimes that Legacy Pox is becoming a bit absurd, mostly in running all those 1-of Legend cards like Nether Void, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, The Abyss and Chains of Mephistopheles. Apart from the financial cost of these cards, I feel it's changing Pox in a way I don't like.
Additionally, Modern is popping up around me still more and more, so I might as well construct a Deck for it :). I decided to go for a Gateish variant of Pox (or MBC), trying to integrate both archetypes because of the loss of pre-Modern cards mentioned before, but also Bitterblossom and Jitte. Some ideas on a The Gate variant were archived some time ago here, but I feel that leaning towards Pox would be much more efficient, and I have more experience playing it.
The list I've tried so far I'm very happy about:
Creatures
4x Dark Confidant
4x Vampire Nighthawk
2x Abyssal Persecutor
Spells
3x Funeral Charm
4x Innocent Blood
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x The Rack
4x Smallpox
3x Wrench Mind
4x Liliana of the Veil
Lands
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
11x Swamp
1x Tomb of Urami
Considering Spells, Funeral charm does not see much play in Legacy Pox but I've always been a massive fan of it. Apart from reasons mentioned above, it kills all 1 toughness creatures of the opponent, being Bob, BoP, Goblins, Elves, Lavamancer, Clique, Snapcaster and many more. It also boosts Factories for defense against early Goyfs. Lastly, it provides instant discard which during topdecking is almost a free turn (play in response to draw step of opponent, two more cards to draw for you with Bob). The rest of the Spell package is the core of Legacy Pox (the Rack version). Wrench Mind is there to fill Hymns spot as the second {B}{B} sorcery. The choice of discarding one artifact is also not a bad thing for Pox as it struggles against utility artifacts rather often.
Then Lands. No Tectonic Edges as it works against Pox land sac effects, so instead Ghost Quarter to destroy Maze of Ith and other utility lands. Not running a Maze myself but may in the future if the basic land mana base is stable enough. Four Urborgs to make all lands produce black, countering life loss of Tomb aswell. Spare copies are easily discarded or sacced. No Spawing Pool, Howltooth Hollow or other CitPT lands as I find the tempo loss too great for this sort of deck.
At the moment the last sideboard I had looked like this, pretty random:
3x Damnation
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Duress
3x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
Shame no Perish or Dystopia can't be played in Modern, with all the Jund versions around. I have chosen not to play Ritual, but it may be your playstyle to do so. I simply find the card disadvantage too great (dark ritual into Bob or Nighthawk, which gets Exiled) and working against you more often than not. In a more Jund, UW heavy meta Damnation would probably be better used with MD Rituals.
Let me know what you guys think. I'm quite new to Modern but I feel this sort of deck should do very well.
I really enjoy reading this stuff thanks
I have never played without ratchet, usually MD. Pox is designed to stall so the delay isn't that problematic if you ask me. As mentioned its instant vs combo and a 2-turn wipe against tribals, vials (huge danger to Pox), BUG etc. I find it to be on par with abrupt decay in filling the role of versatile junk killer.
Cards like big Pox, Bloodghast and high mana cards like Nether void and the abyss are directly related to your mana base management (whether this is through dark ritual or not) and thus related to your gy dependence.
Reason for this argument is that I play a gy independent hand disruption strategy which forces me to play more low mana cost threats with highly versatile use. The upside from this build is that all cards have a much higher chance of being useful at any point (e.g. I play 4 inquisitions, 1 duress, 4 hymns, 3 ratchets and 3 funeral charms MD), which is important as we have no drawing cards.
On a sidenote, playing Pox to make hymn more effictive is a non-argument really. Also, I nearly always play smallpox first if there is a creature out and I have spare lands in hand. The psychology is better than hymn (although hymn is awful to take aswell). In these UGr/blade filled metas today I am much happier to draw a Pox.
2x Cabal Coffers
4x Dark Ritual
4x Carnophage
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Circling Vultures
4x Nantuko Shade
4x Necratog
3x Ragamuffyn
3x Oona's Prowler
1x Rotting Giant
3x Grafted Skullcap
4x Consume Spirit
Thoughts to make it more balanced/stable (casual suggestions please)?
- Reid duke's list plays/played Nether Void, which for 1 extra mana in a dark ritual build is worth it: Trinisphere will hurt you probably as much as or more than your opponent. Nether Void will make every card cost 3 extra mana, such as KotR.
- It's a different strategy, slightly more aggresive especially if you run 4.
- Not necessarily, it gets a lot better with 4 wastes and plent of poxes. If you don't run sinkholes or 8pox I'd cut the wastes too to allow for a more stable deck. But yes, I do think it's a key card for the archetype. Sinkhole isn't there for the basic lands, though versus Burn it's very good. It's all about additive effects. Things like: 2 swamps in play, play wasteland on your turn, then dark ritual, sinkhole, smallpox, sac waste. Make sure to pack GY hate versus maverick with all the LD.