This is my favorite legacy deck and from time to time I check up on new sets to see if they printed anything that I could add to improve on it. I recall the main weaknesses of this deck are dealing with heavy permission and heavy discard. The deck doesn't run anything to fix the draws, so often times you have to send to the bin some real meat and potatoes when they cast a discard effect.
If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to discard Loxodon Smiter, put it onto the battlefield instead of putting it into your graveyard.
Wins the game after 5 attacks
Now if you start running a version of the deck with Smiter, you probably want to cut out Mishra's Factory since you now have to support W and G while running 4x Ancient Tomb and 4x City of Traitors. You might then take advantage of your new mana flexibility by running a maindeck Sylvan Library to help deal with draw consistency issues.
That said, if you want to maindeck this build, it might not be as effective as you want it to be against blue. It's very rare that they're able to counter your creatures when you land Trinisphere/Stax, and if you cast the Loxodon Smiter without control of the game it will get removed easily. At least you can get Mishra's Factory back after they remove it by using Crucible of Worlds. So my initial feeling is that reforming the mana base to support green is best suited for making it easier to consistently cast effective sideboard cards like Choke. And maindecking Smiter is probably not the best build. But I'd like to hear more thoughts on this.
I'm currently trying to build a sideboard and I'm confused exactly what I should put in. I want to be prepared to face unknown metas, so I want to try to pack game for as many popular decks as possible. Is there any way I could ask for help here?
Why is your meta unknown? It might be helpful to check some recent top 8s, the closer to where you live the better. The problem with trying to build a sideboard to beat as many decks as possible is it might just help you with none. Not too long back I started a project to help people understand the matchups and learn to sideboard with this deck, but I haven't had time to update it and the thread fell by the wayside. It's under the thread titled "Armageddon Stax." I personally believe the most important matchups to concentrate on are Merfolk, Maverick and Team America. This deck does pretty well against Dredge. Standstill is another tough matchup, and I think you needChoke in your board do deal with that. I personally think Karmic Justice is worth a look against Maverick, and just in case you have to deal with any deck with pernicious deed, which will absolutely rock you. A copy or 2 of ensnaring bridge helps against those decks sneaking in Emrakul or Progenitus, as well as against most aggro decks. Suppression Field is pretty fantastic against Team America, because of all the fetches, and against Merfolk with all the man lands and aether vial. You may or may not want to try Ethersworn Canonist. They're usually better than Magus when your opponent doesn't have many creatures, and they are fantastic against storm, which is already a good matchup.
I do like the idea of Skyshroud Cutter, the list seems ok; I'm not a fan of the idea of mulligan until I find a glimpse (reason why I'm playing wishboard).
I would believe Beastmaster Ascension would be playing the role of Signal Pest, if your looking to cut something 2 Signal Pest may work, on the other hand I like Signal Pest more then Beastmaster (personal perference I guess).
Maybe it's a bit of an overkill to use beastmaster/pest/bushwhacker but it's not a super competitive deck anyway. Everyone who wants to use this should know they're just not going to have much of a shot against counterspells. Doesn't mean you can't beat aggro decks and even outpace a lot of combo decks, though. In my experience it's worth mulling to 5 to go for the glimpse. I wouldn't bother going past that. Maybe that's more applicable to my build than other builds.
I've been toying around with the beastmaster ascension version and made something really fun to use. Basically the strategy is to mulligan into a glimpse of nature. It's usually good to go from there. When it wins on the first turn it can do upwards of 400 damage.
Edit: -2 Fetch lands -2 Simian Spirit Guide +2 Tinder Wall +1 Elvish Spirit Guide +1 Land Grant
Fizzles out less now. Tinder Wall/Guide 2-2 split works great because you can actually use the wall to cast out a guide and keep the chain going, and the deck can focus on green sources and still get red sources.
I kinda like the bobs in the sideboard versus discard, seems solid. Would bobs be more efficient versus discard than the doomsday combo? Since the combo is reliant on them not having wasteland.
Another thing, I'm testing out the red splash, and I was wondering if it was better to have a single Chain of Vapor MD, or to have a Eye of Nowhere SB (to tutor with Burning Wish)?
EDIT: Oh and something else, how come everyone is picking Chrome Mox over Mox Diamond? The diamond gives you more cards in the gy for your cabals, and grants all colors as well. Only downside is that you have to target a land, which we dont have a lot of - but since the prime use of the moxen is for the blind ad nauseum, the diamond just seems better. Or am I missing something here?
I think the Dark Confidant/Chant sideboard plan is the way to go over Doomsday for a couple of reasons. 1. Counterbalance is not too popular anymore. 2. It's just a hell of a lot easier to use. I like how you can manipulate your Dark Confidant pick ups every time with brainstorms, preordain and ponder. I was drawn to it when I saw a weaker player win a mirror match, almost solely because his sideboard had Dark Confidant and the other guys didn't. You have a few ways to drop them into play on turn 1, which allows you to fill up your hand and reduce their life total at the same time.
I think the cards in the graveyard is a moot point once you get the Ad Nauseam rolling. If you powered up to 5 mana you're almost definitely past 7, or easily in range. The reason I use it is simply a matter of playing the percentages. In more game situations you'll be happier with the chrome mox than the mox diamond. Probably the most common one is ditching those game 1 discard spells when you don't need them. Unfortunately, it doesn't mean you'll always be happier you have the chrome mox.
As for Eye of Nowhere, what draws you to that card? It's sorcery speed and requires UU. You'd probably be better off with something like 1 Hurkyl's Recall and 1 Chain of Vapors in the side, so you don't get owned by a Chalice of the Void or Gaddock Teeg in game 1.
Basically I think Dark Confidant makes life easier against discard and Orim's Chant makes life easier against blue control. I was thinking about how maybe Abeyance might be a nice touch against Mental Misstep. I don't know, though. I think Duress and Thoughtseize will mostly eat those, and Abeyance could easily run into anything from Spell Pierce to Spell Snare, and is just plain slower, which absolutely matters against Merfolk. For now I'm trying a bunch of options for bounce effects, because certain cards like chalice of the void might shut some down but not others. I like to have a mix. I am trying 3 duress and 3 thoughseize, and not 4 and 2, because Grim Tutor takes up 3 life, and while duress is often superior, thoughtseize can grab hate bears. Often I'll board 1 out and keep the other. And other times I might go up to 8. I like the idea of 1 chrome mox and 16 land, giving me kind of like a hedged bet. I have the chance for faster wins and the 16 land is better against control.
That seems like a very poor meta for storm to preform well in. I would highly consider a different archetype if you want to consistently beat these decks. I read tournament report after report of Maverick and Merfolk beating storm combo, and Team America is a combo player's worst match up.
This is exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to walk into. Are these matchups hopeless, or are people innovating to beat them? I have used a bunch of decks in legacy, and this deck is one of the most fun for me to use, so if I could learn to have a shot in these difficult matchups, I would rather just keep using this deck.
I Wish for Infernal Tutor often. I'll frequently have hands that would win immediately if Burning Wish were Infernal Tutor, and I'm pretty happy to be able to actually make the switch when such a scenario occurs. It's not very slow to kill an opponent on turn three.
I also find that Burning Wish really doesn't do anything for me unless I have an Infernal Tutor somewhere accessible. I find that more often than having played eight spells with a Wish in hand to cast it for Tendrils or having two business spells in my hand to make IGG work out, I just have a lot of mana and a Burning Wish. Wish for IT for Ad Nauseam happens a lot for me. I've even Wished for IT to get IGG on an occasion.
To be entirely honest, the best way for you to learn what you're doing is to just play. Asking for help isn't a problem, but treating it like a replacement for genuine experience is a foolish idea. The innovators of these decks aren't on hiatus, they're testing. Your questions are all reasonable, but getting your questions answered objectively is unreasonable. We don't know what you play, how you play it, nor what you play against. All of those will influence the answers, and only you really have the ability to observe those factors.
That being said...Ari always plays the same maindeck, for the most part. It isn't dated. Note that Ari always changes his sideboard because the best choices against any given field are always meta-dependent. Also note that he is the only prominent storm player right now who plays Grim Tutor.
Chrome Mox? How often are you planning to cast Ad Nauseam with no mana floating and are you comfortable with only four Lotus Petal in your deck to keep you from fizzling? Is it worth potentially drawing Chrome Mox before Ad Nauseam? Mox Diamond? Same question.
I personally never play any deck with less than 16 land unless it's SI or Belcher. Some people are comfortable playing ANT with as low as 14 land. Are you?
Doomsday as a sideboard plan is used because of Counterbalance being almost unwinnable against. Are you finding that you face against a lot of Counterbalance?
Xantid Swarm gets countered by Misstep. That being said, if you catch your opponent on the play, they need to have Misstep or they lose. I still play them, but other players have tried seeking out protection spells that don't cost one mana. On the other hand, the creator of TES, Bryant Cook, added two to his maindeck because he sees more Merfolk now. What are you expecting to play against, and how do you think your deck can best combat what you expect to see?
I've seen Ari lose more than once to a game one, turn two Gaddock Teeg. Are you planning on playing a lot of decks that would do this?
I haven't seen a single person play flusterstorm. On Mental Misstep: Ari's deck is unchanged. lorddotm made an entirely new deck in response. How does the card affect the deck you want to play?
Basically, you see where I'm coming from, right? Test for yourself, and evaluate the results for yourself so you can know what works best for you based on A) Where you play, B) What you play, and C) How you play. I don't see how you can really ask any questions about the finer details when you haven't even decided on which deck you want to play.
I appreciate the response. Although, while reading it I don't know if I gave you the impression that I don't like to test this deck, or have a desire to test it and do the hard work to improve at it, because I sense a little something in your tone. I'm just making the transition from practicing this deck without an opponent, and facing some weaker decks on cockatrice, to facing some of the better decks in the format with disruption. In my experience, sometimes just thinking about using a deck is just as beneficial as actually using it. I like to test, then read, then test, then read the same exact thing again. And I have had trouble finding new reading material on this deck. Please link me to anything you've got.
I want to clarify that my big string of questions were rhetorical and they are all something to consider while choosing the decklist I will be using to test the most. (Which is not to say you didn't say useful things in reply to them, because I definitely got some new ideas from reading your words) Although I see why you were maybe hesitant to give me an answer with such little background information on my metagame. I should explain what decks I want to beat with this, and those are Team America, Merfolks, Maverick, (which can GSZ into Gaddock Teeg) and Rock variants with heavy discard.
Now, if the main reason to use chrome mox is to cast ad nauseam with 0 mana floating, then I'm not sure I'm too interested in using it. I see some comments about how Ad Nauseam is almost like the "desperate" way to win, and the more usual way to win is through tutor chains or ill-gotten gains. I'm kind of working with an unknown metagame. I don't plan to play this in a tournament, or play in any tournaments in the foreseeable future, but I like to use this deck online and I enjoy getting better using it. And I don't like to half-ass things. I like to learn things thoroughly.
Finally, I get the impression the doomsday plan is a bit more than just the way to beat counterbalance. I believe you use it against every deck where you can get away with it.
I have to say I'm really enjoying this deck. Unfortunately it seems some of the innovators of this deck are on hiatus. I learned a lot about playing this deck through Ari Lax's articles, but I can't tell if that decklist is dated, or still is the way to go. I have more questions than even looks reasonable to list in a row. Grim tutor? Yes or no? Chrome mox? Mox Diamond? 15 land? 17 land? Burning Wish version? Doomsday sideboard plan? Is that Xantid Swarm card any good? Do we need chain of vapor in the main, since that GW Maverick deck likes to GSZ into Gaddock Teeg? Do gitaxian probes have any business being in this deck? How do mental misstep and flusterstorm change our game plan?
I suppose I could just play game after game, making mistake after mistake and trying to fix them, but there are players who are a lot smarter than me that could save me a lot of time by breaking some things down for me. Us crazy combo players have to stick together, no? I've used both the Ari Lax version that went top 4 in DC and the version by Marco Deligos that went top 4 in Manila. By the way, I'll be fishbowling that version, lorddotm. I appreciate you posting that list.
It depends on what you expect to play against. There are merits to 3 Ghostly Prisons and 4 Ghostly Prisons. In my opinion 4 is ideal, since when it matters it really matters. No one wants to draw Ghostly Prison when it doesn't do anything, but the chances are you won't draw Ghostly Prison for a few turns if you run 3 of them. That's the difference between a win and a loss against Goblins and Zoo.
I realize I did neglect to mention the main reason I wouldn't dive into red, and that's because I like Choke so much in the sideboard. I won't discourage you from trying anything though. You have the right attitude for trying out a new deck. Let me know how it goes.
Ok, forget my last statement, I just bought my playset City of Traitors yesterday and can't wait to give this deck a go next week.
I like the idea of splashing red for Ajani Vengeant. He isn't actually a win condition but can screw your opponent really hard and fits the mana / tempo denial plan we're running pretty well.
What about Lodestone Golem? Why isn't he run in this deck usually? Chalice @ 1 followed by a Golem should be pretty crucial for our opponents.
Also, what's the appropiate number to set up smokestack? I would say the number of permanents you can recur every turn and maybe + 1. So if we only have Crucible, we'll just play Stack @ 1 or 2. If we have Crucible and Elspeth we can set it for 2 or 3. I don't know if this is a bit too risky, since I've never played this deck yet.
I would recommend trying one of these lists out before you change it up. These cards go so well together and leave room for only a few slots to mess around with. Check out the cards explanations section for comments on Smokestack. I usually leave it at 1, with some exceptions.
I'll make a note to talk about all these cards you bring up in my next update. Lodestone Golem comes into affect before Trinisphere, so if something costs U, like Brainstorm, Lodestone makes it cost 1U, then Trinisphere bumps it up to 2U, so it is not as effective as you'd want it to be. Then it makes things like Armageddon and Ghostly Prison cost more. I think we have much better options.
Personally, I wouldn't run Ajani Vengeant. The lifegain is nice, but I think I'd rather run Wurmcoil Engine if I wanted lifegain. I think these effects are a bit redundant, and the current pieces that we'd take out to use him are a bit more efficient at getting the job done. However, by all means try it out. That's what magic is all about.
I run Angel Stax after a list I found on starcitygames a few years ago and it is horribly outdated, im in the process of simply copying that list with Choke in it. One question though, I own 2 Moats, and with it´s 2ww casting cost, can it safely replace two Ghostly Prisons? Has anyone tested?
Moat is good, but it's not as fast as Ghostly Prison. Some decks are just so fast that you'll regret not playing the extra two Ghostly Prisons. Goblins is one of those decks. Not only that, but Tombstalker is one of the most common creatures to come across, and Moat will do nothing for that. For these reasons, most sideboards bring in Ensnaring Bridge for extra creature hate.
So I don't own any City of Traitors, but I would really like to give this deck a try. How would you think will Crystal Vein do in this deck as a substitute? I know it's not as good as City of Traitors, but sometimes it has it's advantages (like not being sacrificed automatically so I can keep using it for 1 mana in the mid- to lategame).
One thing to say: I'm not expecting to see any decks that run high on counters in two weeks. One merfolk deck, everything else people run around here is pretty much focused on its own game.
What I expect:
• Aluren (if I get to drop a Trinisphere, I should have almost won, right?)
• Merfolk
• Zoo
• Enchantress
• Dredge
...and some other stuff, but those mentioned above are the most important ones. What are your suggestions: Could Armageddon Stax compete in this meta?
Thanks for your input. I plan to write a matchup guide for these decks. There's already one for Merfolk, and another user has talked some about Zoo and Dredge.
Crystal Vein sounds like a good budget option if you don't expect a lot of counters. I'd might recommend sacrificing it to play around daze at times if you expect it and need to get a spell in play a turn early.
I have played this deck in the past. I agree that it is inconsistent. But its quite fun to play it once in a while at a tournament.
But i believe the meta now wont allow stax to have a chance at winning much.
but i can be wrong.
Honestly I think tournament results are largely the result of which decks are getting the most play. Merfolks are represented the most and they make the most top 8s. That matchup is probably 50/50. And if you check the deck page for merfolks they concede "Choke, should it randomly be included in your opponents sideboard, is a big problem" No one can confidently say there's a best deck in the format, and a few of the decks in the tier 1 section are extremely vulnerable to this matchup.
Secondly, if someone like Kai Budde used this deck he would probably top 8. That's just how it works. Good players get results. Read a tournament report and you'll see how many errors players typically make. Metagame is a nice excuse for losing, but play your cards right and you can win with this deck. There's no lack of power in these cards.
Third, this deck in my view isn't all that inconsistent. Sure, it's not as consistant as decks that run brainstorms and fetches, but it does reuse cards from the graveyard and it does shut down other decks to buy more than enough time to draw things. I tend to see my opponents deck doesn't look all that consistent after they get done playing it against stax. Something I'd like to talk about in this deck primer is strategic mulliganing. You'll need to do it with this deck.
Your list is missing Plains. I'm assuming 5 from the land count.
The big creature slot continues to be debated. I've really liked BSA so far, but I understand there are compelling reasons to go with World Queller, Wurmcoil Engine, etc. With the prevalence of blue control decks and efficient creature removal right now, I'd also consider Elspeth, Knight Errant, which is a fantastic finisher, and synergizes very well with smokestack and potentially Humility. Right now I'm running a 3/2/2 split of Magus, BSA, Elspeth, and it's working out decently.
This can be a semi-reasonably-priced deck or potentially the most expensive deck in the format, including Ravages, Tabernacle, and potentially Moat. Are the excessively expensive pieces worth the extra cost, and if so which are the most important ones to acquire/run? Ravages seems particularly questionable, as Iv'e found myself taking out 'geddon effects often, and rarely want to play them unless I have both crucible and prison, or magus and a mox diamond already in play. I've almost never wished for more than 3/4. Also, how effective is the singleton Tabernacle if we have no way to fetch it?
Since you're splashing green for Choke, have you considered Beast Within ? I tried it out this week and was very successful with it, except in one situation where I lacked the colored mana for it. It's an extra out to problem attackers, Jace, opposing crucibles, and occasionally can even hit a pernicious deed that hasn't gone off, or an opponent's pesky land while under a tabernacle/prison effect. Most often though, I used it on my own extra lands, particularly Flagstones, to make a surprise blocker or extra creature to swing for the win.
Finally, why isn't this part of the comprehensive and popular White Stax thread, it seems odd to start a new thread from scratch for an already established deck that has an existing thread.
You are observant. They are plains.
Well, this might seem odd to you to start a new thread, but I explained my dissatisfaction with the other Stax thread to the moderator, and we thought it would be better if someone else made a new one. Check the forward looking statements. The opening post in the White Stax thread is outdated and doesn't talk about the current matchups I think are the most important. I want this to be a group project for us stax players, where we can debate card choice (Elspeth, Beast Within, Ravages, Tabernacle, World Queller, Wurmcoil) and share sideboarding strategies as well as play strategies against the decks that matter. Give me a decklist and I'll post it.
As for the deck I'm playing, I have never felt the need to cut the Geddon effects. They're faster than Smokestack, and I play 26 lands. If you post a matchup guide just do me a favor and post your decklist and sideboard along with it.
Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. Decklists
III. Card Choices
Synergies
IV. Matchups
Play tips
Enemies of Stax
Sideboarding
V. Forward Looking Statements
I. Introduction
How does the Wizards R&D team let you know they might have made a mistake?
Right from the get-go, these guys knew that this card would be straight up nasty. In fact, they were prepared to restrict it in Vintage before anyone would have a chance to take 4 of them and make them look like fools. Sure, you can’t win the game with one card, but you can end it for the other guy. This card had the potential to ruin the format that contains the strongest cards ever printed.
Indeed, a year after its release, Wizards smacked Trinisphere with the restriction stamp.
When people think of disruption, they think of cards like Duress, Hymn to Tourach, and Force of Will. But really, there is no card out there that is more feared than Trinsiphere. This is because for 3 mana, you change the rules of the game.
Aaron Forsythe of Wizards R&D on Trinisphere, “While it does serve a role of keeping combo decks in check, it also randomly destroys people on turn one, with little recourse other than Force of Will. And those games end up labeled with that heinous word—unfun. Not just “I lost” unfun, but “Why did I even come here to play?” unfun. The power level of the card is no jokes either, which is a big reason why I don't feel bad about its restriction.”
By introducing you to Trinisphere, maybe it sounds like I’m asking you to be a massive jerk. Welcome to the world of competitive magic. It is important to realize just how fast and cutthroat of a format Legacy is. There are decks out there that want no part of interacting with you. They will beat you on turn 1, 2 or 3. There are other decks that will smash you in the face with unfairly efficient creatures. Then there are decks that will not “cast” creatures, but rather place them in to play, while countering your every move. Still, others will just gather unfair levels of card advantage and drag you down over time. There are no guaranteed wins in legacy.
Knowing what these other decks can do, you are going to want to have Trinisphere by your side. The best turn 1 in legacy might very well be Mox Diamond, Ancient Tomb, Trinsiphere. But we’ll talk about that in a bit.
Now, if you’re still reading, I bet you want to start using this card from Hell. Well, then, you’ve come to the right place, because the deck that uses Trinsiphere the most effectively is Armageddon Stax.
The aim of Armageddon Stax is to deal with the threats you expect to see, before you even see them. In fact, you won’t have to see all that much from your opponent if you play your cards right. You might not even have to do anything to them. You just have to wait for those lovely words, “I concede.”
While Trinsiphere exemplifies the concept of dealing with things ahead of time beautifully, another key card at your disposal is Chalice of the Void. In most cases when you place Chalice at “1” you will see some frustration on your opponent’s face. These two cards form the most potent preemptive strike in legacy. For those that enjoy a good political reference, Stax is the Bush Doctrine of Magic decks. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, ask Sarah Palin.
This deck is so good at locking down your opponent and crushing their spirit, you could almost get away with running no win conditions. However, the bare minimum should be Magus of the Tabernacle and Mishra’s Factory. Magus not only serves a crucial defensive function, but also gets the job done by itself on the offensive end. This is the absolute best creature we can use in this deck. No one can dispute the use of Magus, but there is some debate on whether Magus should be paired with another creature. The most popular creatures to go alongside Magus have traditionally been Exalted Angel, and then Baneslayer Angel.
II. Decklists
Let’s start with a sample decklist. Please direct me to some decklists with information including the name of the event, the number of players and where that player ultimately placed, and I'll add it here.
Alex Kenny
2010 SCG 5K Legacy Open – Seattle
9-16th Place
This version runs only Magus and Mishra's Factory as the win conditions. I like the mana base of this version a lot. The rule of thumb for us stat nerds is 3 Flagstones of Trokair and 6 Plains. A 1:1 ratio is not ideal.
This version runs the most crucial sideboard card for the current metagame: Choke. I believe the decks that don't run Choke in the board are putting themselves at a huge disadvantage.
III. Card Choices
Main Deck
Trinisphere: It can't be overstated enough just how powerful this card is. You can set your opponent back by an incalculable number of turns at the drop of a hat. Some players will see you play this and literally take their hand, put it back on top of their deck, and start cycling through their sideboard. This card works great with Armageddon in locking your opponent out of playing cards, and it makes your opponent struggle to play countermagic.
Chalice of the Void: This is another one of the most powerful cards out there. If you don't have Trinisphere, it's often your next best first turn play. You have to make a judgment call about taking it out for game 2, since some players use a wider mana curve, and Supression Fields can also be very devastating in the right matchup. Check the matchups section for more details on how to sideboard with this deck.
Ghostly Prison: People call Armageddon Stax a prison style deck. Sometimes this is more important to get into play than Trinisphere. One such situation is when your opponent gets Aether Vial out early. This is better than Moat for various reasons, the biggest being the casting cost, and another being the prevalence of the card Tombstalker. Finally, the "WW" can be a problem for this deck to reach consistently in a timely manner.
Armageddon: Along with Trinisphere, this is also one of the most disruptive spells in the history of magic, and is definitely one of the best white cards ever. Cast Armageddon, then drop a The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale into play and you can destroy all of your opponents creatures. Likewise, if you've got Magus of the Tabernacle out, you accomplish the same thing. Most people run 4 Armageddons, or split them with Ravages of War. Personally, I run 4 Armageddon and 1 Ravages of War, with the thinking that these are faster than Smokestack and usually more ideal to draw. In my opinion it is preferable to draw 2 Geddons than to draw none. Why? Well this card wins the game when you cast it. Also, your opponent will be looking to Duress, Thoughtseize, Force of Will or Daze your Armageddons any chance they get.
Smokestack: This card is important as a finisher. A lot of people look at this deck and think it needs a huge finishing creature, but with Smokestack you create a hard lock. This is better than having extra creatures because your opponent won't need to see it if you lock them out of the game completely destroying every last one of their permanents. More often than not, you should leave Smokestack at 1. There are times when you will need to go for it and put it at 2. Use your judgment. In my opinion, you should run 3 of these, rather than 4. The reason is that this is often the last card that you play from your hand.
Crucible of Worlds: This card works very well with Smokestack, Armageddon, and basically all of your lands, particularly Wasteland and Horizon Canopy. Some people will give up as soon as you get Wasteland and Crucible rolling. Finally, it has a nice synergy with Mox Diamond. Check the synergies section for a nice quick reminder of how all these cards interact.
Mox Diamond: Look, speed wins in legacy. This deck gets the lock down faster than aggro decks get their attack on. This card is a huge reason why. Don't even get me started on how good Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors are. Throw Mox Diamond into the mix, and this deck wastes little time getting up to 3. And you know what costs 3.
Oblivion Ring: This is a support card, and it's the only card I think could possibly be improved upon in the main deck. Since all the cards work so well together, there isn't a lot of room for improvement. The oblivion ring slot is up for debate. Additionally, the extra creature slot is up for debate.
Note: On the next edit I'll discuss the lands in detail. I think the mana base of this deck is unique and one of the most important things to get right as a deck builder, and understand fully to play this deck correctly.
Synergies:
(Some more obvious than others)
Armageddon + Magus of the Tabernacle or Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (Destroys all their lands AND creatures. Make sure you play Armageddon first, then Tabernacle)
Smokestack + Armageddon (forces opponents permanent sacrifice)
Armageddon or Smokestack + Flagstones of Trokair
Armageddon + Mox Diamond
Armageddon or Smokestack Crucible of Worlds (replay lands)
Crucible of Worlds + Wasteland (Known as a Wastelock)
Crucible of Worlds + Horizon Canopy
Crucible of Worlds + Mox Diamond (Bring that land you pitched back into play)
Ghostly Prison + Magus/Tabernacle/Armageddon/Trinisphere/Smokestack (They just all work well together)
Flagstones of Trokair + Savannah
Note: Flagstones of Trokair does not make you sacrifice City of Traitors when you sacrifice it to Smokestack and search out a land
For decks that play it: Worldqueller + Mishra’s Factory + Crucible of Worlds (Name creature at upkeep)
IV. Matchups
The most important deck to beat right now is Merfolk. These decks are relatively inexpensive to build and thus show up in huge numbers to tournaments.
Game 1
If you are on the play, and you have the opportunity to, you throw down Trinisphere. It will be highly unlikely you’ll lose that game if it resolves through force of will. Your next best bet is Chalice of the Void for 1. It is nice that some players are using less than 4 Force of Wills in the main.
On the draw, you have to deal with Daze. Don’t play around Spell Pierce. These decks tend to play anywhere from 0 to 3 copies of these, and usually none in the main now that Mental Misstep is around. So if you get 3 mana on turn 1, and you have a choice, play Chalice of the Void for 1. Just don’t tap out. If you have a choice of playing a plains and tapping out, or playing ancient tomb, taking 2 damage and floating 1 mana, you play the ancient tomb. No questions asked.
Important: If your opponent plays aether vial, whether it be goblins or merfolk, you are going to want to play ghostly prison before trinisphere.
Sideboarding:
In: +3 Choke, +4 Suppression Fields, +1 Ensnaring Bridge
Out: -4 Chalice of the Void, -1 Armageddon, -2 World Queller, -1 Oblivion Ring,
It is important to keep in mind that those 3 spell pierces and extra force of will are coming in against you, and those mental missteps are coming out. This deck is disruptive and it has a clock. Ensnaring Bridge is a nice extra stall piece, and the combination of Choke and Suppression fields will devastate them. The emphasis is the establishing the early game lock, so some finishers from the main deck are cut.
"Set chalice at 1 on the play and it's almost a guaranteed win. Half of zoo's deck is one cost and turning off, well....everything but Qasali Pridemage seems pretty good. Other than that, wasteland is also very good against them. It cuts Wild Nacati down to size and hits almost every land in their deck. This matchup is pretty nice as it is one of the few where you don't have to worry about your lock pieces getting discarded or countered. I say all of this, but it is not at all a walk in the park. If you don't have a very fast start, they will do what zoo does best and kill you on turn 3 or 4 if you don't slow them down at all. Watch out for those Pridemages and the newer favorite, Gaddock Teeg is also pretty good against us. Board in Suppression Field, Ensnaring Bridge, and depending on how heavy their burn is, Sphere of Law or Leyline of Sanctity."
Another important point to consider is to try not to walk right into a big Price of Progress. Don't overplay nonbasic lands from your hand. You can and should just hold them if you have access to 4-5 mana. They can hit you for 10+ damage with all these nonbasics. Karakas is a nice weapon against Gaddock Teeg. This creature will hamper your ability to play Armageddon and Smokestack.
There's nothing wrong with Chalice in this matchup, but the reasoning behind putting in Supression Field is how it works wonders against fetch lands. Sphere of Law comes in to deal with all the burn. Expect the extra Teeg, Krosan Grip and Price of Progress to come in.
V. Forward Looking Statements
This post is a work in progress. I would like to discuss many of the main deck and sideboard cards at length in the Card Choices section, as well as have the most comprehensive matchup summaries out of all of the decks on MTG Salvation. I'm looking for assistance on the matchups against all of the Tier 1 and otherwise popular Legacy decks. This includes: Zoo, UW Standstill, BUG Standstill, Team America, Junk, Rock, Death and Taxes, High Tide, Mono Blue Control, Bant, Dredge, Hive Mind, and Storm combo decks.
Feel free to add some comments, or write up a matchup guide for any of those decks I mentioned. I will be sure to quote you in my next edit.
Finally, I'd like to just say thank you to everyone who has contributed so far. It's one of the many decks out there that can win any given tournament. What is important is to continue to learn as much as you can about this deck so you can play it optimally. Winning in legacy is more about playing well than lucking into good matchups. A lot of matchups are even. Play the right way, learn the ins and outs of this deck, and you'll do well. If more people were playing this deck it would be in tons of top 8s. Of course, what people use has a lot to do with how much it costs to build a deck, and what is in style. Stax is not currently in style, which in my opinion makes it a great choice to bring to a tournament and surprise the hell out of people.
This is my favorite legacy deck and from time to time I check up on new sets to see if they printed anything that I could add to improve on it. I recall the main weaknesses of this deck are dealing with heavy permission and heavy discard. The deck doesn't run anything to fix the draws, so often times you have to send to the bin some real meat and potatoes when they cast a discard effect.
Loxodon Smiter
Now if you start running a version of the deck with Smiter, you probably want to cut out Mishra's Factory since you now have to support W and G while running 4x Ancient Tomb and 4x City of Traitors. You might then take advantage of your new mana flexibility by running a maindeck Sylvan Library to help deal with draw consistency issues.
That said, if you want to maindeck this build, it might not be as effective as you want it to be against blue. It's very rare that they're able to counter your creatures when you land Trinisphere/Stax, and if you cast the Loxodon Smiter without control of the game it will get removed easily. At least you can get Mishra's Factory back after they remove it by using Crucible of Worlds. So my initial feeling is that reforming the mana base to support green is best suited for making it easier to consistently cast effective sideboard cards like Choke. And maindecking Smiter is probably not the best build. But I'd like to hear more thoughts on this.
Why is your meta unknown? It might be helpful to check some recent top 8s, the closer to where you live the better. The problem with trying to build a sideboard to beat as many decks as possible is it might just help you with none. Not too long back I started a project to help people understand the matchups and learn to sideboard with this deck, but I haven't had time to update it and the thread fell by the wayside. It's under the thread titled "Armageddon Stax." I personally believe the most important matchups to concentrate on are Merfolk, Maverick and Team America. This deck does pretty well against Dredge. Standstill is another tough matchup, and I think you need Choke in your board do deal with that. I personally think Karmic Justice is worth a look against Maverick, and just in case you have to deal with any deck with pernicious deed, which will absolutely rock you. A copy or 2 of ensnaring bridge helps against those decks sneaking in Emrakul or Progenitus, as well as against most aggro decks. Suppression Field is pretty fantastic against Team America, because of all the fetches, and against Merfolk with all the man lands and aether vial. You may or may not want to try Ethersworn Canonist. They're usually better than Magus when your opponent doesn't have many creatures, and they are fantastic against storm, which is already a good matchup.
Maybe it's a bit of an overkill to use beastmaster/pest/bushwhacker but it's not a super competitive deck anyway. Everyone who wants to use this should know they're just not going to have much of a shot against counterspells. Doesn't mean you can't beat aggro decks and even outpace a lot of combo decks, though. In my experience it's worth mulling to 5 to go for the glimpse. I wouldn't bother going past that. Maybe that's more applicable to my build than other builds.
Cheerios
4 Taiga
Mana Sources (15)
4 Lotus Petal
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Land Grant
2 Tinder Wall
4 Glimpse of Nature
The Team (33)
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Crookshank Kobolds
4 Kobolds of Kher Keep
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Signal Pest
4 Skyshroud Cutter
1 Vine Dryad
2 Beastmaster Ascension
2 Goblin Bushwhacker
Edit: -2 Fetch lands -2 Simian Spirit Guide +2 Tinder Wall +1 Elvish Spirit Guide +1 Land Grant
Fizzles out less now. Tinder Wall/Guide 2-2 split works great because you can actually use the wall to cast out a guide and keep the chain going, and the deck can focus on green sources and still get red sources.
I think the Dark Confidant/Chant sideboard plan is the way to go over Doomsday for a couple of reasons. 1. Counterbalance is not too popular anymore. 2. It's just a hell of a lot easier to use. I like how you can manipulate your Dark Confidant pick ups every time with brainstorms, preordain and ponder. I was drawn to it when I saw a weaker player win a mirror match, almost solely because his sideboard had Dark Confidant and the other guys didn't. You have a few ways to drop them into play on turn 1, which allows you to fill up your hand and reduce their life total at the same time.
I think the cards in the graveyard is a moot point once you get the Ad Nauseam rolling. If you powered up to 5 mana you're almost definitely past 7, or easily in range. The reason I use it is simply a matter of playing the percentages. In more game situations you'll be happier with the chrome mox than the mox diamond. Probably the most common one is ditching those game 1 discard spells when you don't need them. Unfortunately, it doesn't mean you'll always be happier you have the chrome mox.
As for Eye of Nowhere, what draws you to that card? It's sorcery speed and requires UU. You'd probably be better off with something like 1 Hurkyl's Recall and 1 Chain of Vapors in the side, so you don't get owned by a Chalice of the Void or Gaddock Teeg in game 1.
2 Island
2 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Duress
1 Grim Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Thoughtseize
3 Dark Confidant
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Orim's Chant
1 Rebuild
1 Wipe Away
1 Tundra
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
Basically I think Dark Confidant makes life easier against discard and Orim's Chant makes life easier against blue control. I was thinking about how maybe Abeyance might be a nice touch against Mental Misstep. I don't know, though. I think Duress and Thoughtseize will mostly eat those, and Abeyance could easily run into anything from Spell Pierce to Spell Snare, and is just plain slower, which absolutely matters against Merfolk. For now I'm trying a bunch of options for bounce effects, because certain cards like chalice of the void might shut some down but not others. I like to have a mix. I am trying 3 duress and 3 thoughseize, and not 4 and 2, because Grim Tutor takes up 3 life, and while duress is often superior, thoughtseize can grab hate bears. Often I'll board 1 out and keep the other. And other times I might go up to 8. I like the idea of 1 chrome mox and 16 land, giving me kind of like a hedged bet. I have the chance for faster wins and the 16 land is better against control.
This is exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to walk into. Are these matchups hopeless, or are people innovating to beat them? I have used a bunch of decks in legacy, and this deck is one of the most fun for me to use, so if I could learn to have a shot in these difficult matchups, I would rather just keep using this deck.
I appreciate the response. Although, while reading it I don't know if I gave you the impression that I don't like to test this deck, or have a desire to test it and do the hard work to improve at it, because I sense a little something in your tone. I'm just making the transition from practicing this deck without an opponent, and facing some weaker decks on cockatrice, to facing some of the better decks in the format with disruption. In my experience, sometimes just thinking about using a deck is just as beneficial as actually using it. I like to test, then read, then test, then read the same exact thing again. And I have had trouble finding new reading material on this deck. Please link me to anything you've got.
I want to clarify that my big string of questions were rhetorical and they are all something to consider while choosing the decklist I will be using to test the most. (Which is not to say you didn't say useful things in reply to them, because I definitely got some new ideas from reading your words) Although I see why you were maybe hesitant to give me an answer with such little background information on my metagame. I should explain what decks I want to beat with this, and those are Team America, Merfolks, Maverick, (which can GSZ into Gaddock Teeg) and Rock variants with heavy discard.
Now, if the main reason to use chrome mox is to cast ad nauseam with 0 mana floating, then I'm not sure I'm too interested in using it. I see some comments about how Ad Nauseam is almost like the "desperate" way to win, and the more usual way to win is through tutor chains or ill-gotten gains. I'm kind of working with an unknown metagame. I don't plan to play this in a tournament, or play in any tournaments in the foreseeable future, but I like to use this deck online and I enjoy getting better using it. And I don't like to half-ass things. I like to learn things thoroughly.
Finally, I get the impression the doomsday plan is a bit more than just the way to beat counterbalance. I believe you use it against every deck where you can get away with it.
I suppose I could just play game after game, making mistake after mistake and trying to fix them, but there are players who are a lot smarter than me that could save me a lot of time by breaking some things down for me. Us crazy combo players have to stick together, no? I've used both the Ari Lax version that went top 4 in DC and the version by Marco Deligos that went top 4 in Manila. By the way, I'll be fishbowling that version, lorddotm. I appreciate you posting that list.
I realize I did neglect to mention the main reason I wouldn't dive into red, and that's because I like Choke so much in the sideboard. I won't discourage you from trying anything though. You have the right attitude for trying out a new deck. Let me know how it goes.
I would recommend trying one of these lists out before you change it up. These cards go so well together and leave room for only a few slots to mess around with. Check out the cards explanations section for comments on Smokestack. I usually leave it at 1, with some exceptions.
I'll make a note to talk about all these cards you bring up in my next update. Lodestone Golem comes into affect before Trinisphere, so if something costs U, like Brainstorm, Lodestone makes it cost 1U, then Trinisphere bumps it up to 2U, so it is not as effective as you'd want it to be. Then it makes things like Armageddon and Ghostly Prison cost more. I think we have much better options.
Personally, I wouldn't run Ajani Vengeant. The lifegain is nice, but I think I'd rather run Wurmcoil Engine if I wanted lifegain. I think these effects are a bit redundant, and the current pieces that we'd take out to use him are a bit more efficient at getting the job done. However, by all means try it out. That's what magic is all about.
Moat is good, but it's not as fast as Ghostly Prison. Some decks are just so fast that you'll regret not playing the extra two Ghostly Prisons. Goblins is one of those decks. Not only that, but Tombstalker is one of the most common creatures to come across, and Moat will do nothing for that. For these reasons, most sideboards bring in Ensnaring Bridge for extra creature hate.
Thanks for your input. I plan to write a matchup guide for these decks. There's already one for Merfolk, and another user has talked some about Zoo and Dredge.
Crystal Vein sounds like a good budget option if you don't expect a lot of counters. I'd might recommend sacrificing it to play around daze at times if you expect it and need to get a spell in play a turn early.
Honestly I think tournament results are largely the result of which decks are getting the most play. Merfolks are represented the most and they make the most top 8s. That matchup is probably 50/50. And if you check the deck page for merfolks they concede "Choke, should it randomly be included in your opponents sideboard, is a big problem" No one can confidently say there's a best deck in the format, and a few of the decks in the tier 1 section are extremely vulnerable to this matchup.
Secondly, if someone like Kai Budde used this deck he would probably top 8. That's just how it works. Good players get results. Read a tournament report and you'll see how many errors players typically make. Metagame is a nice excuse for losing, but play your cards right and you can win with this deck. There's no lack of power in these cards.
Third, this deck in my view isn't all that inconsistent. Sure, it's not as consistant as decks that run brainstorms and fetches, but it does reuse cards from the graveyard and it does shut down other decks to buy more than enough time to draw things. I tend to see my opponents deck doesn't look all that consistent after they get done playing it against stax. Something I'd like to talk about in this deck primer is strategic mulliganing. You'll need to do it with this deck.
Finally, this deck is fun.
You are observant. They are plains.
Well, this might seem odd to you to start a new thread, but I explained my dissatisfaction with the other Stax thread to the moderator, and we thought it would be better if someone else made a new one. Check the forward looking statements. The opening post in the White Stax thread is outdated and doesn't talk about the current matchups I think are the most important. I want this to be a group project for us stax players, where we can debate card choice (Elspeth, Beast Within, Ravages, Tabernacle, World Queller, Wurmcoil) and share sideboarding strategies as well as play strategies against the decks that matter. Give me a decklist and I'll post it.
As for the deck I'm playing, I have never felt the need to cut the Geddon effects. They're faster than Smokestack, and I play 26 lands. If you post a matchup guide just do me a favor and post your decklist and sideboard along with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYKUeZQbMF0
Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. Decklists
III. Card Choices
Synergies
IV. Matchups
Play tips
Enemies of Stax
Sideboarding
V. Forward Looking Statements
I. Introduction
How does the Wizards R&D team let you know they might have made a mistake?
Right from the get-go, these guys knew that this card would be straight up nasty. In fact, they were prepared to restrict it in Vintage before anyone would have a chance to take 4 of them and make them look like fools. Sure, you can’t win the game with one card, but you can end it for the other guy. This card had the potential to ruin the format that contains the strongest cards ever printed.
What card am I talking about? Trinisphere.
Indeed, a year after its release, Wizards smacked Trinisphere with the restriction stamp.
When people think of disruption, they think of cards like Duress, Hymn to Tourach, and Force of Will. But really, there is no card out there that is more feared than Trinsiphere. This is because for 3 mana, you change the rules of the game.
Aaron Forsythe of Wizards R&D on Trinisphere, “While it does serve a role of keeping combo decks in check, it also randomly destroys people on turn one, with little recourse other than Force of Will. And those games end up labeled with that heinous word—unfun. Not just “I lost” unfun, but “Why did I even come here to play?” unfun. The power level of the card is no jokes either, which is a big reason why I don't feel bad about its restriction.”
By introducing you to Trinisphere, maybe it sounds like I’m asking you to be a massive jerk. Welcome to the world of competitive magic. It is important to realize just how fast and cutthroat of a format Legacy is. There are decks out there that want no part of interacting with you. They will beat you on turn 1, 2 or 3. There are other decks that will smash you in the face with unfairly efficient creatures. Then there are decks that will not “cast” creatures, but rather place them in to play, while countering your every move. Still, others will just gather unfair levels of card advantage and drag you down over time. There are no guaranteed wins in legacy.
Knowing what these other decks can do, you are going to want to have Trinisphere by your side. The best turn 1 in legacy might very well be Mox Diamond, Ancient Tomb, Trinsiphere. But we’ll talk about that in a bit.
Now, if you’re still reading, I bet you want to start using this card from Hell. Well, then, you’ve come to the right place, because the deck that uses Trinsiphere the most effectively is Armageddon Stax.
The aim of Armageddon Stax is to deal with the threats you expect to see, before you even see them. In fact, you won’t have to see all that much from your opponent if you play your cards right. You might not even have to do anything to them. You just have to wait for those lovely words, “I concede.”
While Trinsiphere exemplifies the concept of dealing with things ahead of time beautifully, another key card at your disposal is Chalice of the Void. In most cases when you place Chalice at “1” you will see some frustration on your opponent’s face. These two cards form the most potent preemptive strike in legacy. For those that enjoy a good political reference, Stax is the Bush Doctrine of Magic decks. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, ask Sarah Palin.
This deck is so good at locking down your opponent and crushing their spirit, you could almost get away with running no win conditions. However, the bare minimum should be Magus of the Tabernacle and Mishra’s Factory. Magus not only serves a crucial defensive function, but also gets the job done by itself on the offensive end. This is the absolute best creature we can use in this deck. No one can dispute the use of Magus, but there is some debate on whether Magus should be paired with another creature. The most popular creatures to go alongside Magus have traditionally been Exalted Angel, and then Baneslayer Angel.
II. Decklists
Let’s start with a sample decklist. Please direct me to some decklists with information including the name of the event, the number of players and where that player ultimately placed, and I'll add it here.
Alex Kenny
2010 SCG 5K Legacy Open – Seattle
9-16th Place
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
Spells [31]
4 Armageddon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Mox Diamond
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Smokestack
4 Trinisphere
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Karakas
3 Mishra's Factory
6 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Defense Grid
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Humility
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Powder Keg
3 Tormod's Crypt
This version runs only Magus and Mishra's Factory as the win conditions. I like the mana base of this version a lot. The rule of thumb for us stat nerds is 3 Flagstones of Trokair and 6 Plains. A 1:1 ratio is not ideal.
Hannes Knabe-Paulsen
Hamburg, Germany -- August, 2010
1st Place: 54 Participants
2 Baneslayer Angel
3 Magus of the Tabernacle
Spells [30]
4 Armageddon
4 Ghostly Prison
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Trinisphere
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Smokestack
3 Plains
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Horizon Canopy
4 City of Traitors
2 Savannah
1 Karakas
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Choke
2 Suppression Field
2 Karmic Justice
1 Aura of Silence
2 Sphere of Law
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
This version runs the most crucial sideboard card for the current metagame: Choke. I believe the decks that don't run Choke in the board are putting themselves at a huge disadvantage.
III. Card Choices
Main Deck
Trinisphere: It can't be overstated enough just how powerful this card is. You can set your opponent back by an incalculable number of turns at the drop of a hat. Some players will see you play this and literally take their hand, put it back on top of their deck, and start cycling through their sideboard. This card works great with Armageddon in locking your opponent out of playing cards, and it makes your opponent struggle to play countermagic.
Chalice of the Void: This is another one of the most powerful cards out there. If you don't have Trinisphere, it's often your next best first turn play. You have to make a judgment call about taking it out for game 2, since some players use a wider mana curve, and Supression Fields can also be very devastating in the right matchup. Check the matchups section for more details on how to sideboard with this deck.
Ghostly Prison: People call Armageddon Stax a prison style deck. Sometimes this is more important to get into play than Trinisphere. One such situation is when your opponent gets Aether Vial out early. This is better than Moat for various reasons, the biggest being the casting cost, and another being the prevalence of the card Tombstalker. Finally, the "WW" can be a problem for this deck to reach consistently in a timely manner.
Armageddon: Along with Trinisphere, this is also one of the most disruptive spells in the history of magic, and is definitely one of the best white cards ever. Cast Armageddon, then drop a The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale into play and you can destroy all of your opponents creatures. Likewise, if you've got Magus of the Tabernacle out, you accomplish the same thing. Most people run 4 Armageddons, or split them with Ravages of War. Personally, I run 4 Armageddon and 1 Ravages of War, with the thinking that these are faster than Smokestack and usually more ideal to draw. In my opinion it is preferable to draw 2 Geddons than to draw none. Why? Well this card wins the game when you cast it. Also, your opponent will be looking to Duress, Thoughtseize, Force of Will or Daze your Armageddons any chance they get.
Smokestack: This card is important as a finisher. A lot of people look at this deck and think it needs a huge finishing creature, but with Smokestack you create a hard lock. This is better than having extra creatures because your opponent won't need to see it if you lock them out of the game completely destroying every last one of their permanents. More often than not, you should leave Smokestack at 1. There are times when you will need to go for it and put it at 2. Use your judgment. In my opinion, you should run 3 of these, rather than 4. The reason is that this is often the last card that you play from your hand.
Crucible of Worlds: This card works very well with Smokestack, Armageddon, and basically all of your lands, particularly Wasteland and Horizon Canopy. Some people will give up as soon as you get Wasteland and Crucible rolling. Finally, it has a nice synergy with Mox Diamond. Check the synergies section for a nice quick reminder of how all these cards interact.
Mox Diamond: Look, speed wins in legacy. This deck gets the lock down faster than aggro decks get their attack on. This card is a huge reason why. Don't even get me started on how good Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors are. Throw Mox Diamond into the mix, and this deck wastes little time getting up to 3. And you know what costs 3.
Oblivion Ring: This is a support card, and it's the only card I think could possibly be improved upon in the main deck. Since all the cards work so well together, there isn't a lot of room for improvement. The oblivion ring slot is up for debate. Additionally, the extra creature slot is up for debate.
Note: On the next edit I'll discuss the lands in detail. I think the mana base of this deck is unique and one of the most important things to get right as a deck builder, and understand fully to play this deck correctly.
Synergies:
Armageddon + Magus of the Tabernacle or Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (Destroys all their lands AND creatures. Make sure you play Armageddon first, then Tabernacle)
Smokestack + Armageddon (forces opponents permanent sacrifice)
Armageddon or Smokestack + Flagstones of Trokair
Armageddon + Mox Diamond
Armageddon or Smokestack Crucible of Worlds (replay lands)
Crucible of Worlds + Wasteland (Known as a Wastelock)
Crucible of Worlds + Horizon Canopy
Crucible of Worlds + Mox Diamond (Bring that land you pitched back into play)
Ghostly Prison + Magus/Tabernacle/Armageddon/Trinisphere/Smokestack (They just all work well together)
Flagstones of Trokair + Savannah
Note: Flagstones of Trokair does not make you sacrifice City of Traitors when you sacrifice it to Smokestack and search out a land
For decks that play it: Worldqueller + Mishra’s Factory + Crucible of Worlds (Name creature at upkeep)
IV. Matchups
The most important deck to beat right now is Merfolk. These decks are relatively inexpensive to build and thus show up in huge numbers to tournaments.
Merfolk, by Alex Majlaton
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
2 Merfolk Sovereign
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
1 Sower of Temptation
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
3 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
13 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
2 Energy Flux
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
3 Submerge
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
Problem Cards
Aether Vial, Daze, Force of Will, Spell Pierce
I’ll be referring to the following decklist for playtips and sideboarding against this deck.
3 Magus of the Tabernacle
2 World Queller
Spells [29]
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
4 Armageddon
1 Ravages of War
3 Smokestack
4 Ghostly Prison
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Flagstone of Trokair
5 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Savannah
1 Karakas
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Krosan Grip
3 Choke
2 Sphere of Law
4 Suppression Field
1 Wasteland
2 Tormod's Crypt
Playtips:
Game 1
If you are on the play, and you have the opportunity to, you throw down Trinisphere. It will be highly unlikely you’ll lose that game if it resolves through force of will. Your next best bet is Chalice of the Void for 1. It is nice that some players are using less than 4 Force of Wills in the main.
On the draw, you have to deal with Daze. Don’t play around Spell Pierce. These decks tend to play anywhere from 0 to 3 copies of these, and usually none in the main now that Mental Misstep is around. So if you get 3 mana on turn 1, and you have a choice, play Chalice of the Void for 1. Just don’t tap out. If you have a choice of playing a plains and tapping out, or playing ancient tomb, taking 2 damage and floating 1 mana, you play the ancient tomb. No questions asked.
Important: If your opponent plays aether vial, whether it be goblins or merfolk, you are going to want to play ghostly prison before trinisphere.
Sideboarding:
In: +3 Choke, +4 Suppression Fields, +1 Ensnaring Bridge
Out: -4 Chalice of the Void, -1 Armageddon, -2 World Queller, -1 Oblivion Ring,
It is important to keep in mind that those 3 spell pierces and extra force of will are coming in against you, and those mental missteps are coming out. This deck is disruptive and it has a clock. Ensnaring Bridge is a nice extra stall piece, and the combination of Choke and Suppression fields will devastate them. The emphasis is the establishing the early game lock, so some finishers from the main deck are cut.
U/W Standstill, Owen Turtenwald
3 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
4 Brainstorm
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Mental Misstep
2 Spell Snare
4 Standstill
1 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
3 Meddling Mage
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Path to Exile
1 Pithing Needle
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Wrath of God
Zoo, John Kubilis
2011 GP Providence Top 8
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
Spells [15]
2 Chain Lightning
1 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Price of Progress
2 Sylvan Library
4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
3 Taiga
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Choke
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Krosan Grip
2 Price of Progress
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Problem Cards:
Gaddock Teeg, Qasali Pridemage, Grim Lavamancer, Price of Progess, Krosan Grip
User MoT_Pestilence explains the matchup,
Another important point to consider is to try not to walk right into a big Price of Progress. Don't overplay nonbasic lands from your hand. You can and should just hold them if you have access to 4-5 mana. They can hit you for 10+ damage with all these nonbasics. Karakas is a nice weapon against Gaddock Teeg. This creature will hamper your ability to play Armageddon and Smokestack.
Decklist for reference:
3 Magus of the Tabernacle
2 World Queller
Spells [29]
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
4 Armageddon
1 Ravages of War
3 Smokestack
4 Ghostly Prison
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Flagstone of Trokair
5 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Savannah
1 Karakas
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Krosan Grip
3 Choke
2 Sphere of Law
4 Suppression Field
1 Wasteland
2 Tormod's Crypt
Sideboarding:
In: +2 Sphere of Law, +4 Supression Field, +1 Ensnaring Bridge
Out: -1 Armageddon, -1 Crucible of Worlds, -4 Chalice of the Void, -1 Smokestack
There's nothing wrong with Chalice in this matchup, but the reasoning behind putting in Supression Field is how it works wonders against fetch lands. Sphere of Law comes in to deal with all the burn. Expect the extra Teeg, Krosan Grip and Price of Progress to come in.
V. Forward Looking Statements
This post is a work in progress. I would like to discuss many of the main deck and sideboard cards at length in the Card Choices section, as well as have the most comprehensive matchup summaries out of all of the decks on MTG Salvation. I'm looking for assistance on the matchups against all of the Tier 1 and otherwise popular Legacy decks. This includes: Zoo, UW Standstill, BUG Standstill, Team America, Junk, Rock, Death and Taxes, High Tide, Mono Blue Control, Bant, Dredge, Hive Mind, and Storm combo decks.
Feel free to add some comments, or write up a matchup guide for any of those decks I mentioned. I will be sure to quote you in my next edit.
Finally, I'd like to just say thank you to everyone who has contributed so far. It's one of the many decks out there that can win any given tournament. What is important is to continue to learn as much as you can about this deck so you can play it optimally. Winning in legacy is more about playing well than lucking into good matchups. A lot of matchups are even. Play the right way, learn the ins and outs of this deck, and you'll do well. If more people were playing this deck it would be in tons of top 8s. Of course, what people use has a lot to do with how much it costs to build a deck, and what is in style. Stax is not currently in style, which in my opinion makes it a great choice to bring to a tournament and surprise the hell out of people.