Slamming a cage is the wrong move against LE but so is countering the cascade card thinking it will stop the trigger. The people that do this is because they haven't read the cards correctly or at all. So yes you will get those games with people but as soon as you keep doing what you doing they learn that they were wrong and make the correction. However you can find that with many other decks that are in tier.
This deck has many strengths outside of just being unfamiliar or misunderstand, many of which you have said in your post. Like I posted before I went 4-0 at my local store. Everyone I played against knows how the deck plays and brought in the right tools to deal with it. I was still able to push through the hate. The new cyclers helped push my power level just a little bit more. Now instead of putting 9 to 12 power on the board by T3 I can jam 12+ power (Not taking in account Street Wraith). The creatures are just bigger or can get bigger with a lot of players can't deal with and ticks our kill clock up. I didn't get any free wins because of misplays or lack of knowledge.
The problem with not having anyone know about your deck is that you can't help improve on your deck. You limit yourself just to your ideas and not someone else that could bring in something fresh and new to the table that can help push the deck just a bit over some of those iffy match ups.
I believe that you aren't giving the deck or the pilot's skill as much credit as they deserve. I do understand where you are coming from but my experience with this deck and what I have seen is different from yours. We aren't going to see eye to eye on this argument so I'm just going to leave it at that.
You can go look at the Pinned threads about how a deck becomes tier whatever. I'm on my phone so I don't know exactly where it is. However yes it is based on how much it is played and it's record which includes both online and paper results.
Sorry but winning matches because your opponents just don't understand how your deck works is probably the last thing I would want. Just feels bad to see my opponents on tilt or upset because they didn't understand my deck. I like to explain the deck and help people at the end of the match so they can apply that knowledge for next time. So I'm actually opposite of your stance, sorry.
Edit: You also shouldn't being saying that those are our decks strengths. You basically just called the deck out as jank and can't win vs anyone knowledgeable.
I'm not trying to call you out but you should think much better of the deck and your own skill. You put time and effort into this deck like the rest of us. The deck is stronger with the new cards and the current meta going around.
Nahiri has been tried and tested in LE many times. I personally never liked it overall. I would rather have other mainboard answers to problems then have a walker that is hard to protect. She can loot for you and has a removal effect to help vs those pesky creatures or mainboard relics/RIPs ect. However that ult is tricky to get off as many times the opportunity to keep ticking her up isn't there. She is neat and if you have the cards then I would suggest you try it out for yourself.
As mentioned previously it doesn't seem right to have no main board answers to anything and instead just goldfish and win. So I don't agree with his list and I think you should do a little testing of your own and not worry what TWoo has been doing. I'm not saying he doesn't know what he is doing but I just don't want my game one to be a blowout because I literally had no answers to main board relic or other hate.
I played at my local store on Thursday and went 4-0 that night. Played against Faeries(2-0), Infect(2-1), Bant Knightfall(2-0), and Bogles(2-1).
Here is my list. Still tweaking cards here and there (mostly manabase).
I prefer the command in my main over the blessed. It comes down to what your meta is. I do in fact run 2 Alliances in the side and I think it's a great card to use. I just like having to deal with Moons game 1 around my area. I don't think getting 1 green and 1 white is too unreasonable but that is my opinion.
I actually do run a 1 of Batterskull now with so much burn around here. It's been great and taken a lot of the burn players by surprise. I'm also running a 1 of D.Command and new Nissa. Both have also been doing great for me. The scry alone helps set up advantages when behind and command helps me kill off some pesky creatures or that game 1 Blood moon.
Has anyone thought about a build using Starfield of Nyx?
Now I have never played this deck before so I'm hoping I can spark some ideas and other list here. Streets is in for free draw but also as flex because I don't know much about the deck yet.
So far from the 2 matches I have played it has been weird but preformed better than I expected. I've only played against GB Delirium and RW Moon but I have won against both of them.
Here is the list I'm thinking of trying out first. Took a couple sideboard options fron some people on the thread. I'm also use to the white splash because I use to run 2 Stony Silence, a Kataki, War's Wage, and a couple Pale Recluses.
I feel as if my mana is a bit messy however. Wolf has been great but I might switch it out for a Forbidden Orchard.
In control scapeshift it might be fine but for this deck it isn't worth running in my opinion. Already sucks to have Glade in your opening hand with no other green sources. At least Glade can enter untapped.
I would say so with the current meta. I actually run 1 EE and 1 Ratchet Bomb main. I think bomb has been really useful vs moons and if I get stuck on 1 or 2 colors and I really need to get 3 or even 4 cmc cards. It is gonna be slower for obvious reasons and majority of the time EE is better.
I think D.Command is a good spice card for what's going on around in my store's meta. Can be a bit awkward to cast at times.
Also I still can't get behind the Worship train. I also like the 5 dorks and 24 land list. I think it's because I have awful luck when I play haha.
Actually no they did not. They just said what they like from the other walkers.
So far I've had no problems with using her. She fits fine in the curve. I like her + because having a 5/5 even if it is our land is good as a blocker or putting on a beat down. Her -3 can help recover a titan, land, ect. Very useful vs Ghost quarter or control decks that stop a titan. I just haven't felt bad about playing her so far. I don't think she is too casual for this kind of deck. Her ult can also just help you close out the game by drawing us cards if we flood.
This deck has many strengths outside of just being unfamiliar or misunderstand, many of which you have said in your post. Like I posted before I went 4-0 at my local store. Everyone I played against knows how the deck plays and brought in the right tools to deal with it. I was still able to push through the hate. The new cyclers helped push my power level just a little bit more. Now instead of putting 9 to 12 power on the board by T3 I can jam 12+ power (Not taking in account Street Wraith). The creatures are just bigger or can get bigger with a lot of players can't deal with and ticks our kill clock up. I didn't get any free wins because of misplays or lack of knowledge.
The problem with not having anyone know about your deck is that you can't help improve on your deck. You limit yourself just to your ideas and not someone else that could bring in something fresh and new to the table that can help push the deck just a bit over some of those iffy match ups.
I believe that you aren't giving the deck or the pilot's skill as much credit as they deserve. I do understand where you are coming from but my experience with this deck and what I have seen is different from yours. We aren't going to see eye to eye on this argument so I'm just going to leave it at that.
Also thank you Kappa, I agree with you.
Edit: You also shouldn't being saying that those are our decks strengths. You basically just called the deck out as jank and can't win vs anyone knowledgeable.
I'm not trying to call you out but you should think much better of the deck and your own skill. You put time and effort into this deck like the rest of us. The deck is stronger with the new cards and the current meta going around.
Nahiri has been tried and tested in LE many times. I personally never liked it overall. I would rather have other mainboard answers to problems then have a walker that is hard to protect. She can loot for you and has a removal effect to help vs those pesky creatures or mainboard relics/RIPs ect. However that ult is tricky to get off as many times the opportunity to keep ticking her up isn't there. She is neat and if you have the cards then I would suggest you try it out for yourself.
As mentioned previously it doesn't seem right to have no main board answers to anything and instead just goldfish and win. So I don't agree with his list and I think you should do a little testing of your own and not worry what TWoo has been doing. I'm not saying he doesn't know what he is doing but I just don't want my game one to be a blowout because I literally had no answers to main board relic or other hate.
I played at my local store on Thursday and went 4-0 that night. Played against Faeries(2-0), Infect(2-1), Bant Knightfall(2-0), and Bogles(2-1).
Here is my list. Still tweaking cards here and there (mostly manabase).
2 Archfiend of Ifnir
4 Desert Cerodon
1 Faerie Macabre
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Horror of the Broken Lands
4 Monstrous Carabid
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Street Wraith
//Instant (8)
2 Beast Within
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Violent Outburst
//Sorcery (7)
3 Demonic Dread
1 Kari Zev's Expertise
3 Living End
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Blooming Marsh
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
2 Blood Moon
1 Dead // Gone
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Lost Legacy
2 Shriekmaw
2 Wear // Tear
Now I have never played this deck before so I'm hoping I can spark some ideas and other list here. Streets is in for free draw but also as flex because I don't know much about the deck yet.
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
3 Firewild Borderpost
//Creature (8)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Street Wraith
//Enchantment (15)
4 Ardent Plea
4 As Foretold
4 Cast Out
1 Detention Sphere
2 Starfield of Nyx
//Instant (4)
4 Violent Outburst
//Instant // Sorcery (3)
3 Failure // Comply
//Enchantment Creature (2)
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Restore Balance
//Land (17)
1 Forest
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Arid Mesa
3 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Blood Moon
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Ricochet Trap
3 Sweltering Suns
2 Timely Reinforcements
3 Wear // Tear
So far from the 2 matches I have played it has been weird but preformed better than I expected. I've only played against GB Delirium and RW Moon but I have won against both of them.
I feel as if my mana is a bit messy however. Wolf has been great but I might switch it out for a Forbidden Orchard.
3 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Fulminator Mage
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Street Wraith
3 Archfiend of Ifnir
4 Desert Cerodon
4 Horror of the Broken Lands
//Instant (9)
3 Beast Within
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Violent Outburst
//Sorcery (7)
3 Demonic Dread
1 Kari Zev's Expertise
3 Living End
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Copperline Gorge
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Crime // Punishment
1 Dismember
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Ingot Chewer
1 Lost Legacy
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Shriekmaw
2 Wear // Tear
This is the standard list I'm gonna run tonight.
2 Engineered Explosives
//Creature (25)
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Drowner of Hope
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
1 Eternal Witness
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
//Instant (5)
1 Dromoka's Command
4 Path to Exile
4 Ancient Stirrings
//Land (24)
1 Breeding Pool
3 Brushland
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Plains
2 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
2 Yavimaya Coast
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Natural State
2 Negate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Stubborn Denial
I think D.Command is a good spice card for what's going on around in my store's meta. Can be a bit awkward to cast at times.
Also I still can't get behind the Worship train. I also like the 5 dorks and 24 land list. I think it's because I have awful luck when I play haha.
2 Hidden Stockpile
4 Intangible Virtue
3 Oath of Ajani
//Instant (7)
4 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
1 Secure the Wastes
//Planeswalker (8)
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
//Sorcery (11)
1 Alive // Well
2 Beck // Call
4 Lingering Souls
4 Sram's Expertise
2 Bitterblossom
//Land (23)
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Westvale Abbey
1 Windbrisk Heights
4 Windswept Heath
1 Alive // Well
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Lost Legacy
1 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Yahenni's Expertise
So far I've had no problems with using her. She fits fine in the curve. I like her + because having a 5/5 even if it is our land is good as a blocker or putting on a beat down. Her -3 can help recover a titan, land, ect. Very useful vs Ghost quarter or control decks that stop a titan. I just haven't felt bad about playing her so far. I don't think she is too casual for this kind of deck. Her ult can also just help you close out the game by drawing us cards if we flood.