MTG Salvation

I left the Cage in the sideboard because I figured you had a meta call where it was good. It could easily be replaced with something else.

After losing every game I resolved a Molten Vortex in, I stopped running it. I tend to get 4-5 lands in play. So I can cast Loam a couple times or Loam+Counter. I never had the mana available to make Vortex good enough. Assault is harder to cast but significantly better. Also, cutting the 4-of's in my list down by 1 is just going to make it more inconsistent. I could see replacing Keranos with Huntmaster but jamming Worm Harvest in without adjusting the mana base sounds really bad. My deck wasn't meant to do triple Green. I'm glad you had fun with what you played though!

@Mazereon - Yeah, RUG is much more reactive than the Jund builds. A lot of telling your opponent no and waiting for a good time to stick Assault. What was the list that you ran?

The inclusion of Fatal Push sounds good. I agree with the cuts you chose. As for your manabase, I know you need Forest and Plains to interact with Knight of the Reliquary but you have way more White sources than you really need for the cost of KotR. You could probably drop Godless Shrine for a second Blood Crypt/Stomping Ground; and Rugged Prairie could be another Jund Shock land or a utility land like Bojuka Bog/Sejiri Steppe that Knight could grab.

You could also replace the Marsh Flats with a third Bloodstained Mire. The way I see it is, you ideally want something like Stomping Ground, Blood Crypt, and Sacred Foundry in play on turn 3 to be able to cast all of your spells. All of which are picked out by Mire and Wooded Foothills. You'll lose out on tutoring for your basic Plains but a 1-of tutoring for 1-of is a marginal circumstance to build around.

I don't know if Leyline of the Void is really the answer you want for Living End. It's ok, but I think having more board wipes is probably a better plan there (Keep in mind that Grafdigger's Cage doesn't actually stop Living End since it puts creatures into play from exile). Scooze and Bog are probably good enough for Dredge. Storm is a bit harder since it doesn't rely on its graveyard. Discard is going to be your best option in hopes of stalling them out long enough for you to win.

A board like this (for a diverse meta) is what I'd go with for you:
3 Timely Reinforcements
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Grafdigger's Cage

I'd try and fit 2-3 board wipes in the mainboard. Damnation is really good, as is Anger of the Gods. There will be decks that build up too wide of a board for Assault to handle in time and having a way to 3-for-1 or better the opponent is usually game deciding. Unconditional board kill is something my RUG deck could really use. Anger does a good enough job but I wish I had access to something like Wrath of God.

@inwiththenoose - I think you could follow roughly the same landbase suggestion that I just wrote about. You both are aiming for roughly the same spells. Having something like a 4/4/1-2 or 4/3/2-3 split on your fetchlands for Foothills/Mire/Verdant is going to be a consistent color smoothing base. Bob would probably be a bit too painful for your deck with the number of 3 and 4 cmc cards you're running. I'd recommend jumping up to 4 Lightning Bolt and with the other 2 slots available, maybe Young Pyromancer, Shadow of the Grave, Thoughtseize, or Raven's Crime+Flame Jab? Or some mix there in.

@inwiththenoose - I agree winmore isn't quite the right category for BoP but it's along the same lines. Where it's really good when the situation is already good and mediocre to bad otherwise. What's the list that you are currently running? I can brainstorm some possible replacements for BoP with you.

@Mazereon - I was going to ask you for your most recent list so I could try it out next time I get to play modern. Haha. I'd like to see what you're liking about the White splash.

But to answer your questions, yes the deck has problems with resolved big beaters. But I try to prevent that by countering them on the stack (or countering the spell that cheats the fatty into play). A resolved Living End is basically game over, but preventing that is generally pretty easy. Otherwise, I end up needing to trade a Goyf+Bolt or some such to regain a neutral board. Relying on Loam to offset the negative card advantage later. I haven't played against any Death Shadow decks yet, so I can't speak specifically to that match up, but it doesn't scare me currently.

I ran Faithless for a long time and it is a really good card in the deck. I like Serum Visions because I want to naturally cast every card in my deck instead of pitching them and going through 3 cards in the deck instead of 2 is a nice upside. Scry 2 is a very strong mechanic.

Yeah, I know how bonkers Leyline of Sanctity can be. Which actually you should be running 4 of it if you are going to run the card at all because it becomes so game breaking in the match ups where you want it. Lingering Souls sounds good but I don't know if the sideboard is the best place for it. If you really want a card that functions well against Burn or RDW, Timely Reinforcements does a ton of work in those match ups. Basically reading "Negate 2 Burn spells and prevent 3 attacks." However, in Jund colors, you can always run Dragon's Claw does a surprising amount of work. As does Obstinate Baloth with the upside of being good against 8 Rack decks as well.

I started playing RUG from when modern became a thing because there was so much combo and having counterspells against Storm, Twin, Living End, and other such combo decks. It feels more secure than discard and hoping to hit their combo pieces. Plus, you get to play Counterspell 2.0 with its downside being an upside, Serum Visions is a very solid way to smooth draws early on and is a 1cmc Dredge enabler, and Snapcaster Mage + Lightning Bolt is a proven combination.

Delver seems contradictory to the gameplan of the deck. Delver is more of a tempo card rather than an attrition card. I'd be interested in seeing the list that you saw because it'd have to be built fairly different to accommodate a more aggressive play style. Tarmogoyf is an undercosted big butt most of the time. I don't know what would be a reasonable substitute for it. That's the reason it's such an expensive card unfortunately. Baral, Chief of Compliance, Augur of Bolas, Moldgraf Scavenger, Omenspeaker, Scavenging Ooze, Thing in the Ice, and Young Pyromancer are all potentially ok replacements with YP being the most likely best option. The most recent Modern Master's version of Goyf are only ~$80, which seems reasonable for such a staple card and they'll only go up in price in the future. If you're considering playing Modern for years to come, it may not be a bad idea to try and scrounge trades for them.

@Mazereon - I didn't mean to say that we can't run 4 colors, just that it's taxing on the mana base, life total and to some extent limits your early game plays depending on your draws and those card's color requirements. Like, a 1-off white splash for a late game Unburial Rites is much easier to swing than trying to have access to Green, White, and Black on top of triple Red by turn 3. Especially if you're looking at cards like Abrupt Decay, Terminate, Looting/Inquisition, KotR, and Assault amidst a couple lands in your first few turns. It requires you to do some mental gymnastics to plan out how you're going to roll out your turns and what the opponent is going to do. Which is mentally straining over time and leaves you open to your opponent breaking plan and forcing you into other options.

Also, I don't see how KotR is that much different from Crusher in your latest post. I'd say KotR is a better top deck late game because its buffing ability is always active, instead of the hoops you have to go through for Crusher. Though Crusher can potentially get much bigger than KotR. But in general, they are both going to be big beaters with no real evasion. Which seemed to be the point you were making. I would concede that Knight is a better card in a vacuum, mainly because of the tutoring ability working to smooth out your mana and finding utility lands. But it comes at a pretty heavy cost, as I mentioned above. For me personally, unless KotR and your sideboard cards drastically increases your percentages against key match ups for your meta, I would consider trimming down to a more streamlined core for your deck in your primary colors and focus on making that line of play stronger.

All that being said, I do know that MtG is a game and everyone's primary goal is to have a good time while playing. So if you like playing KotR and making a 4 color mana base work, then more power to you. I don't want to come across as tearing apart something you enjoy. I'd just like you to have the most successful deck you can play and if there is reasoning you have for why the White splash is the best option, I'd be interested in hearing about it and having a discussion on that topic.

@inwiththenoose - I think having the utility of Ghost Quarter in the MB is very beneficial against most decks in the format. There are tons of utility lands in Modern and having an easy out to things like man-lands or Tron can't be understated.

I don't know if BoP is worthwhile. If you have a hand with Assault and Loam, you're already in a solid position. I don't think a turn 2 Assault does more than allow you to stabilize a bit earlier but it's not going to auto win you a game on turn 2, for example. It might be worth giving it a shot for a handful of games if you think it might work better but it falls into the "win-more" category for me.

@Krond2 - Thanks for sharing your gameplay with us! Doming someone for 24 must have felt really great. I'm glad Shadow of the Grave worked out for you like that. Has it come up in other areas and been useful for you other than combo'ing out? Tough break on the Esper match up, sounds like he was playing a pretty spicy list. I'll keep in mind making sure to try and 1-shot the Death's Shadow players. It makes sense that you wouldn't want to pump their DSs more than you have to. Especially since I don't have access to Fatal Push or Aburpt Decay in my RUG list.

@mykatdied - I'd be interested to hear how testing with Collective Brutality goes. I do like the synergy it has with Loam and it seems solid enough on it's own to be of value. Without seeing a list, it's hard to recommend something that could work v. burn. My general 2-for-1 card in Green is Obstinate Baloth. You don't get the free cast against burn but a 4/4 that gains you 4 life puts a big damper on their gameplan. And it has the upside of being good against 8-Rack and Jund.

@Mazereon - I don't have a problem with KotR. I think it can lead to awkward situations where you'll feel obligated to leave lands in the 'yard to get more damage through or to have a large blocker. My playstyle with the deck is to sit on lands and build up damage over several turns so I can drop game ending damage in one go rather than pings here and there. I like having my options open and KotR pushes you into wanting lands in a specific (and basically unusable) place.

I don't know if any version of the deck is really equipped to handle 4 colors very well. I personally have a ton of trouble on the first few turns planning out my mana requirements and how that limits my plays for known cards in my hand as well as potentially drawn cards later on in the game. So, the idea Snap'ing back a Shadow of the Grave sounds enticing, I think it may be too strenuous for the mana base.

@inwiththenoose - I like Goyf as a sizeable beater and is able to hold off things I can't Bolt or Assault easily but I think Young Pyromancer would be an acceptable replacement in that slot.

Quote from korfits »

What is the reason for the 4 off deprive? Any use for the land coming back to your hand?

It's a 2cmc hard counter. There is the upside with an Assault out that it turns into "Counter target spell. Deal 2 damage to target creature or player." It's been very useful more times than I can remember. It can be a bit awkward if you have to pop it turn 2 or 3 but usually if you are doing that, you're stopping a combo from going off. So you have time to rebuild a board state afterward.

@tarmotwin - I'm glad your FNM went well. I like the Grim Flayer tech. How often was he coming down as a 4/4? Did you find he was connecting often enough to warrant his inclusion over more consistent numbers on the core cards (Loam/Assault/Lands)? Also, Blood Moon in the board seems like an odd inclusion since it usually hoses our mana intensive deck. I know that you being the one playing means you get to play around it, but it isn't usually until turn 4+ that you can really swing a basic land and still hit the colors you need. What matches are you bringing it in for?

@mykatdied - Is your Young Pyromancer build similar to what I remember it being; with Smallpox and a lot of Retrace? In your current build, I think your idea of Iona is a good call. Maybe run her as a 1-of over Elesh Norn? I don't know your meta and the -2/-2 hosing may be better suited but cutting off a core color for most decks seems really good most of the time. Or maybe just replace Archfiend, since Elesh and him accomplish roughly the same thing.

@Lord Hazanko - Gifts might have some tech to it, though I'm personally a fan of playing more proactive spells rather than tutoring. Feels like wasted turns. What is the point of the white in the deck list that you posted? Sideboard options makes some sense but I think you could get a much stronger RUG manabase and run with it from there. Knight of the Reliquary can get big I guess but it forces you to play more aggressively with Assault (eg throwing lands unnecessarily into the yard to keep up Knight's size) rather than holding them for potentially more valuable situations.

Hey there everyone. It's been like a million years, but I've actually gotten some time to open up for MTG again. I made some changes to my RUG Loam deck and took it to second place of ~20 people this past weekend. How's Shadow of the Grave been working for everyone? It looks sweet. Has any one tested Tasigur, the Golden Fang out at all? He seems decent as an efficient threat with how quickly we bin things, not to mention EoT recursion with his ability.

@Killer_Manfred I think you may be over doing the spot removal a bit much. Have you considered running some board wipes? Anger of the Gods comes to mind but Damnation or Pyroclasm are other options.

Here's the list I ran with one change that I'll talk about in a moment.


I was running a 1/1 split of Nissa and Baby Jace but after casting Nissa I needed another one of her in the deck. Scry 2 every turn on a 3cmc 'walker is too good. Her ult ends games really fast too. Letting you stabilize with Assault while simultaneously applying pressure that smooths your draws is great.

Also of note, I only ran a 1-of cycle land. I saw it a couple times and never really needed to use it. I like the value of it but I generally want to be tapping out for Loam/proactive plays. Sitting on Deprive and then being able to draw EoT if they don't do anything is probably the dream but it doesn't seem worth disrupting the mana base to run more than 2-of it. Copperline Gorge could probably get cut for the second.

I had a good time playing the deck though. Beat Ad Nauseam, Merfolk, and a Painter's Servant Combo deck. Lost to Living End due to being greedy. Normally not a terrible match up but I wanted to jam Nissa into play just to see what would happen.

It's a bit late and I haven't gone through every recent post but I'll log on tomorrow and try and do a big response post. I'll try to get you guys some useful feed back/questions/comments. I'm glad to see activity still going on in this thread!

Yeah, I used to run Mind Stone but with the double colored mana costs of the deck, it became more of a liability than a help. The cantrip was nice but outclassed by a higher threat density and tutoring off of Primal Command. Emissary is decent against control and midrange. It lets you beat in for relevant amounts of damage and makes their removal bad because it just ramps me into bigger threats. That most Modern removal can't deal with (besides Path, but again, more ramp). Emissary isn't intended as a chump blocker. He was a concession to the deck needing some form of early game and combines with Bolt to give me some interaction before the bombs drop.

The deck does get hit by Affinity hate but that's just a necessary evil to the deck's power plays. You can fight through it to an extent and changing to a more midrange plan post board helps. However, I did say in my original post that the deck isn't intended to be a tier 1.5+ deck. It is slightly too inconsistent to get there and ends up a turn behind most tiered decks. If another way ever shows up to increase the consistency of having 5 or 6 mana on turn 3, then it could get bumped up in validity. Something like Chrome Mox would be nice. Anyways. it's just a fun deck that I've been brewing for a year or so now.

Quote from Obould »

If you want to play with Wildfire you may also check my UR build from the previous page and maybe get some ideas. For the first sight 17 lands seems way too few. If you lose a land drop you will get behind and Mox opal is not online in the first two turns (you would need citadel to make it online turn 2). Also you would need to mulligan more often due to one-landers.

Another thing that pointed my eye is Viridian emissary. I would replace it with Sakura-tribe elder because then it would not need to be killed to pull the wanted land.

The deck runs 16 Mana generating spells for a total of 33 mana sources in the deck. Firewild Borderpost's alt cost basically makes it a dual color artifact land as long as you have a basic land in your opener. You have to ship any opener that has one land but I'm usually threat light rather than mana light while playing.

Emissary is for early game chumping. He got the nod over STE because he allows me to trade with early guys and works better with Wildfire. STE would have to sac prior to Wildfire resolving causing you to lose that land or die doing nothing.

Why Anticipate over Serum Visions? If you're trying to maximize the amount of cards you can play, the mana efficiency of Visions seems better. You can drop a Talisman and still cast a Visions in the same turn. Also, do you find that 4 Titans is enough of an end game? You have the flitering of a few can trips to try and dig but without a finisher you won't really be able to capitalize on your time after a Wildfire. Which an opponent can recover from given time.

Some food for thought on the topic of Wildfire. It has what Land Destruction needs to push an opponent's deck into a point of being completely behind your board. The problem I've run into with LD decks that run cards that 1-for-1 with a land is that you aren't dealing with the stuff the opponent has already cast in the game. So you may keep them from casting spells that cost more than 2cmc ideally but they'll still be casting things. You are also using card slots that can't deal with those threats. So you leave yourself open to getting flooded with situationally useless cards. Wildfire covers all of the bases that you want in a LD card. It gets multiple lands for one card and kills of the creatures that have been played to that point. Other than Wildfire, cards like Acidic Slime and Fulminator Mage at least get you more value for your one. It kills a land and gives you board position. After playing with cards like Wildfire and Plow Under, their tempo swing is usually game breaking. I'd highly recommend trying them out.

Here is the LD deck I play semi-casually to decent FNM success:



I don't know how the deck beats the top control deck (Ensnaring Bridge + discard in general). The only thing really keeping it from being better than casual is that it always seems to end up being a turn behind the Tier 1.5+ decks. But it's fun and has decent game against most decks.

That's an interesting list. I don't know how well it would hold it's own against Junk though. It doesn't really stop Seige Rhino terribly well and it isn't very resistant to the attrition style game that Junk tries to play.

Hey everyone. I haven't really had time for Magic in quite awhile. I've been trying to launch a Kickstarter project and it's been eating up a ton of my time. It's great to see this thread still alive and kicking. I'll have to go back and reread a lot of the discussion I've missed. Has there been any tournament success with the deck while I've been away?

Here's the current list I have built but haven't tested out yet:


The sideboard is just kind of thrown together but the main thing I'm trying in the MB is 4-of Lightning Bolt. I kept having issues with needing some early spot removal that dealt more than 1 damage. Plus, Bolt is just a solid card. 3 Raven's Crime may be too many in favor of another Inquisition for more targeted discard. I won't really be able to test this until next week but it seems pretty solid. Basically just a Jund deck with added graveyard value.

@Ace: Boil and Sowing Salt seems like a lot of land hate for the sideboard. I don't know what your meta is like, but wouldn't a slot or 2 from those cards be more useful as other cards? I personally put Spellskite in almost all of my sideboards because it is extremely versatile in several match ups and several decks just lose to it. Also, I see what you're getting at with Brownscale but that's pretty slow and you'd have to have stabilized the game state before you'd rather be drawing a Brownscale over Loam. It just seems slow and kind of awkward, especially for being brought in against aggro decks.

I was considering retooling RUG Loam for use with Treasure Cruise. I'll have to get a list together and give it a spin. I really don't like the idea of Eidolon of the Great Revel in a Loam deck. Games usually end up being grindy. Eidolon is a game shortening card. I can only seeing that being more hindering than helpful. I second everyone else's opinion that Tombstalker is better than Hooting Mandrils in a Jund list.

I'd definitely play 4 in the Creatureless Jund lists. For the standard Jund, 3 is probably good enough. You want to hit green more often thanks to Goyf and you aren't wanting to go deep on Crime's or turn 2 Smallpox. Cairns becomes less relevant and more of a hindrance after 3 copies in that build I think. But that's just my preference.