I feel like if you are going to dedicate 8 slots to Proliferation spells to use with Chandra, you would want more proliferation targets to really abuse. Tumble Magnets, more Chalices, Sphere of the Suns, other Planeswalkers, Ascensions(?), etc. Also, is splashing Black really worth it here? It seems like going R/U would be a bit more consistent and free up space so you aren't running a bunch of 2-of's. I'd also run 3 or 4 Spellskite main as protection for your PWs.
Ok, its been two days so I'm going to post again (I hope this doesn't break any rules for triple posting). I just want to get some more feedback on my deck. If it goes dead again, though, I'll just let it be.
I'm still working on the sideboard but from what I can tell, the mainboard is a lot more consistent with the changes I made. I did have some ideas for other cards that could go in the mainboard but I'm not sure how well they would work. They are:
Nest Invader - Two bodies for two mana is pretty huge for this deck, especially when one is a 2/2. It gives a bit of unneeded mana ramp as well but the issue I see is the lack of evasion on them bothers me. Plus getting caught with a couple two mana creatures in my opening hand seems bad. I'm not sure if it is worth the risk.
Glissa, the Traitor - First Strike+Deathtouch to keep fatties at bay. Recursion with my artifact creatures is pretty sweet too. The problem is that her cost is a bit awkward for the deck (but not impossible) and she competes for space with Vengevine as top end creatures for the deck. It seems like she would synergize well but I don't know how costs would play into the deck. Maybe she would be a good sideboard card?
On that note, here are cards I was directly thinking about in the sideboard:
Contaminated Ground - This card is very underrated I believe. It can work as tempo by cutting off a decks only land producing X color. It has a Jinxed Idol style effect early game. And it is pretty cheap to boot. I think it would be a fairly valuable sideboard tool for this deck.
Grim Discovery - I see this card as reading "Choose one or both: Recur Vengevine, or Recur Bloodghast." Which sounds amazing but requires an opponent that is heavily focused on removal. So, I could see siding it in mainly for Red match ups, but I don't know if it is too narrow in application.
Anyways, those are my thoughts for now. I'd appreciate any assistance. Thank you in advance.
Alright. I was not all that successful at FNM. The deck definitely has potential and a lot of people liked the idea, there were just a couple issues that came related to not being able to play test before the tournament. The main issue was that my meta did a 180 turn and was almost all aggro instead of the usual control. The second was that 3 Dismembers mainboard was not enough removal. Go for the Throats need to be included to help break up enemy threats.
Some notes on the deck list:
-I wanted to change to a 2/2 split on Dark Tutelage and Lead the Stampede but I forgot to grab an extra from home and they didn't have any at the store. I feel like that split is superior to 3 Dark Tutelage because I saw it way more often than I wanted.
-Mox Opal was largely a dead card due to the dropping of Ornithopter. I sided it out most games. I feel it can be dropped for Go for the Throats. I'm pretty sure 5-6 removal spells main board is all you really need. As long as you see two or three a game you should be in good shape. It might need to be a 3/2 split GftT/Dismember MB with the extra Dismember in the SB. I'll test this later this week.
-The sideboard was pretty weak. I was only bringing in the Dismember and occasionally Spellskites if opponent removal was a large issue. I think Naturalize would be fine to keep in but Jinxed Idol, Revoker, and Bonehoard need to be replaced. I'm thinking Vampire Nighthawk should be in there for aggro matches.
Good stuff:
-The deck stomps all over Control. I played against one control deck and through bundles of removal and sweepers I managed to 2-0.
-Zombie Infestation is apparently a very scary card to play against (for good reason of course). People were wasting removal spells on it, instead of my creatures. Which made me happy.
-This deck can deal out some massive damage really fast. Swinging for 7 or 8 on turn 3 regularly is a beating. It was just the turn 4 or 5 that was an issue; which I believe the addition of some more removal should help.
-The transition from early game beats to mid-game recovery looks promising. Dark Tutelage and Vengevine are potent threats in a deck like this. Again, removal should help seal this area of the deck up very nicely.
I think this deck is on its way to being a real contender. It just needs more tweaking and testing. Here is what I will be changing my deck to for the future:
I think the idea with Cyclops Gladiator is that he is repeatable removal. You only have one use of Bolt and Slagstorm. He gives you a way to pick off two creatures or more if he manages to survive several turns. I believe a few weeks ago someone suggested him in a deck with Batterskull for 8/8 Vigilance + removal. That being said, I agree with Giuseppe that there are other things I would rather be doing on turn 4. He has his uses but there are just better cards to be playing in my opinion.
Alrighty, I was bored enough to throw together a list. Very rough and untested but I was going off of my Big Red deck and seeing what came up. Looks like it could be good. I would have liked to fit Kazuul in but I'm not sure where he would go. Maybe in place of Wall of Omens? Not sure. Anyways, here is what I got:
I like the Tormented Soul addition. I was thinking he was a 2-drop not a 1-drop. I mainly liked Ornithopter for the evasion but this guy seems better. I guess dropping the artifact count to 12 (excluding Mox) means Mox will get less useful though. So, I can see switching out one of them for Dark Tutelage.
Thanks for the helpful results. I'll be going semi-blind into FNM this week but I'll post results as soon as I can. We'll try and get the list even more refined. On that note, I tried out Scythe Tiger and Immolating Souleater and Pulse Tracker is just better. He is a 2/1 for one with a bit of reach and no draw back. It's pretty amazing.
So I've been goldfishing with Dark Tutelage and it has been pretty nice. I like the board position it gives me, sort of like insurance against wrath effects. I took out two Lead the Stampede for it and I think that is the best option. The miser Lead the Stampede doesn't seem bad either. Helpful when you need it but not really clogging up your hand. I switched to a 3/9 split on Forests/Swamps to accommodate the extra black. Plus, you really need a Swamp in your opening hand. Pulse Tracker seems really nuts in this deck. Swinging for 2 or 3 by himself on turn two is pretty huge. He makes turn 4 kills much more consistent.
Anyways, I'll update the OP with the current list I'm running.
Edit: Any thoughts on sideboard Death's Shadow for the Aggro mirror match? I'm thinking in place of Phyrexian Revoker.
I feel like you should have Oran Rief, the Vastwood and Bellowing Tanglewurm in the Mono-Green version. Also, I feel like Gnarlid Pack is a rather weak card (but I could be wrong). You could probably drop them for 3x Green Sun's Zenith or an additional Garruk and 2x GSZ.
Maybe a direction to take the deck could be to ramp into some really fatty Beasts? Like Rampaging Baloths or Terrastomper. Garruk Wildspeaker may be better in that kind of a deck though and you would want Cultivate over one of your other spells. If you go with Rampaging Baloths, Fetches will become important to have.
I would recommend Titans, Consecrated Sphinx or Sphinx of Jwar Isle depending on your preferences. Another idea that may be worth trying is that with your Proliferation and Chalices, Red Sun's Zenith to burn them out could work.
Alright. I'll try and fit it in and see how it looks. I feel like if I'm going to be drawing two cards a turn I would like to be seeing Zombie Infestation. I'm alright with getting rid of Lead the Stampede for it. I feel iffy about dropping the Mox to two, the acceleration from it is pretty substantial in getting bodies into play. What do you think of just -2 Lead the Stampede for +2 Dark Tutelage? That way the number of three drops doesn't go up. If not that, then I'd rather do -1 LtS, -1 Mox for +2 DT.
...I may be a bit too attached to Zombie Infestation. Haha.
I thought about Vengeful Pharaoh but I'm not looking to be all that reactive. He just seems too mid-rangey for the deck. But I will keep him in mind once I start play testing against other people. I'm sure he could make a good sideboard card for Titan ramp types of decks.
I guess I'll just throw in my strategy for using Bloodghast since you brought up the land in hand comment Jamin P. I hold on to a Contested War Zone to play when I'm ready for the final big swing if possible. The deck can function on one or two lands if needed, so you can hold the CWZ until you are ready to recur Bloodghast, then get a Battlecry in as well.
Also, any thoughts on how good Dark Tutelage might be in this deck? I feel like it could be good in place of Lead the Stampede but it is slower to take affect. Sideboard worthy vs red and/or white decks with sweepers?
I have not played this specific deck against another person, no. I have been playing Tempered Aggro for several weeks now and I'm familiar with that deck. This deck functions almost identically minus the Tempered Steel that really seems like a win-more card in that deck to me. I will eventually test this deck with others but I wanted to get some thoughts before that. I kind of understand where you are coming from with the comments but I feel as though you aren't terribly familiar with Battle Cry. The more bodies that are on the battlefield the better. Same goes for how soon they come down.
Yes, if things go completely horribly wrong, it does suck to have tossed your hand away before a board wipe. That said, Zombie Infestation allows you to turn a top decked land or late 0 drop into a 2/2 body, which is important for this deck. It facilitates better use of your otherwise dead cards and can get an otherwise uncastable Vengevine or two onto the field.
Ornithopter is evasive, drops turn 1 to add extra damage, a creature spell for recurring Vengevine, and a chump blocker. Best top deck ever? Of course not, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it's uses.
I appreciate the criticism, I would have liked some constructive criticism instead though. What would you suggest I do with those cards instead to make the deck better? As far as I can tell, those seem to be the best cards to fill that function in the deck but I'm open to suggestions.
Basically the idea for this deck came out of a desire to make the core of the Tempered Steel Aggro deck more resilient while still maintaining the power level. I feel like this deck has accomplished that. I have only goldfished with it but what I've found is that nut draws are a turn 4 win, average hands win on turn 5, and slow hands win on turn 6 and rarely 7 (like 5 land and no enablers hands that should never be kept anyways).
I'm still working on the sideboard and would like some help with that.
The deck tries to win as soon as possible, hinging mainly on Battle Cry and cheap bodies to attack for large amounts of damage as soon as possible while maintaining a level of resilience to the general downfalls of Aggro decks. Zombie Infestation allows you to turn dead cards in your hand into more bodies at instant speed and a 2/2 body is not bad. Vengevine and Bloodghast combo with Z.I. to net you more bodies, are resilient against removal once in play and have haste to boot. Everything else is pretty self explanatory, more bodies=more damage.
As a side note, I've tried posting this in threads that seemed appropriate and haven't gotten any response. So, I'm making this thread to get some actual help. I feel this can be a competitive deck and deserves some attention. Thank you in advance for any suggestions or advice.
I'm still working on the sideboard but from what I can tell, the mainboard is a lot more consistent with the changes I made. I did have some ideas for other cards that could go in the mainboard but I'm not sure how well they would work. They are:
Nest Invader - Two bodies for two mana is pretty huge for this deck, especially when one is a 2/2. It gives a bit of unneeded mana ramp as well but the issue I see is the lack of evasion on them bothers me. Plus getting caught with a couple two mana creatures in my opening hand seems bad. I'm not sure if it is worth the risk.
Glissa, the Traitor - First Strike+Deathtouch to keep fatties at bay. Recursion with my artifact creatures is pretty sweet too. The problem is that her cost is a bit awkward for the deck (but not impossible) and she competes for space with Vengevine as top end creatures for the deck. It seems like she would synergize well but I don't know how costs would play into the deck. Maybe she would be a good sideboard card?
On that note, here are cards I was directly thinking about in the sideboard:
Contaminated Ground - This card is very underrated I believe. It can work as tempo by cutting off a decks only land producing X color. It has a Jinxed Idol style effect early game. And it is pretty cheap to boot. I think it would be a fairly valuable sideboard tool for this deck.
Grim Discovery - I see this card as reading "Choose one or both: Recur Vengevine, or Recur Bloodghast." Which sounds amazing but requires an opponent that is heavily focused on removal. So, I could see siding it in mainly for Red match ups, but I don't know if it is too narrow in application.
Anyways, those are my thoughts for now. I'd appreciate any assistance. Thank you in advance.
The deck I played was:
4x Signal Pest
4x Memnite
4x Tormented Soul
4x Pulse Tracker
4x Vault Skirge
4x Bloodghast
4x Vengevine
Spells: 12
2x Mox Opal
3x Dark Tutelage
1x Lead the Stampede
3x Zombie Infestation
3x Dismember
4x Contested War Zone
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Forest
8x Swamp
3x Jinxed Idol
4x Spellskite
1x Dismember
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Bonehoard
3x Naturalize
Some notes on the deck list:
-I wanted to change to a 2/2 split on Dark Tutelage and Lead the Stampede but I forgot to grab an extra from home and they didn't have any at the store. I feel like that split is superior to 3 Dark Tutelage because I saw it way more often than I wanted.
-Mox Opal was largely a dead card due to the dropping of Ornithopter. I sided it out most games. I feel it can be dropped for Go for the Throats. I'm pretty sure 5-6 removal spells main board is all you really need. As long as you see two or three a game you should be in good shape. It might need to be a 3/2 split GftT/Dismember MB with the extra Dismember in the SB. I'll test this later this week.
-The sideboard was pretty weak. I was only bringing in the Dismember and occasionally Spellskites if opponent removal was a large issue. I think Naturalize would be fine to keep in but Jinxed Idol, Revoker, and Bonehoard need to be replaced. I'm thinking Vampire Nighthawk should be in there for aggro matches.
Good stuff:
-The deck stomps all over Control. I played against one control deck and through bundles of removal and sweepers I managed to 2-0.
-Zombie Infestation is apparently a very scary card to play against (for good reason of course). People were wasting removal spells on it, instead of my creatures. Which made me happy.
-This deck can deal out some massive damage really fast. Swinging for 7 or 8 on turn 3 regularly is a beating. It was just the turn 4 or 5 that was an issue; which I believe the addition of some more removal should help.
-The transition from early game beats to mid-game recovery looks promising. Dark Tutelage and Vengevine are potent threats in a deck like this. Again, removal should help seal this area of the deck up very nicely.
I think this deck is on its way to being a real contender. It just needs more tweaking and testing. Here is what I will be changing my deck to for the future:
4x Signal Pest
4x Memnite
4x Tormented Soul
4x Pulse Tracker
4x Vault Skirge
4x Bloodghast
4x Vengevine
Spells: 12
2x Dark Tutelage
2x Lead the Stampede
3x Zombie Infestation
3x Go for the Throat
2x Dismember
4x Contested War Zone
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Forest
8x Swamp
4x Spellskite
1x Dismember
3x Naturalize
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Something
Let me know what you guys think of the changes and any further constructive criticism would be awesome. Thank you for reading.
That's all I got for now. A little early for 1x's and I don't recommend more than 3 MB O-Rings.
2x Wall of Omens
3x Spellskite
3x Inferno Titan
Spells:
4x Mana Barbs
3x Personal Sanctuary
3x Gideon Jura
1x Red Sun's Zenith
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Everflowing Chalice
1x Sphere of the Suns
3x Oblivion Ring
2x Slagstorm
3x Tezzeret's Gambit
4x Arid Mesa
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Tectonic Edge
1x Island
8x Mountain
7x Plains
1x Spellskite
1x Slagstorm
3x Luminarch Ascension
3x Act of Aggression
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Moltensteel Dragon
Thanks for the helpful results. I'll be going semi-blind into FNM this week but I'll post results as soon as I can. We'll try and get the list even more refined. On that note, I tried out Scythe Tiger and Immolating Souleater and Pulse Tracker is just better. He is a 2/1 for one with a bit of reach and no draw back. It's pretty amazing.
Anyways, I'll update the OP with the current list I'm running.
Edit: Any thoughts on sideboard Death's Shadow for the Aggro mirror match? I'm thinking in place of Phyrexian Revoker.
Maybe a direction to take the deck could be to ramp into some really fatty Beasts? Like Rampaging Baloths or Terrastomper. Garruk Wildspeaker may be better in that kind of a deck though and you would want Cultivate over one of your other spells. If you go with Rampaging Baloths, Fetches will become important to have.
...I may be a bit too attached to Zombie Infestation. Haha.
I guess I'll just throw in my strategy for using Bloodghast since you brought up the land in hand comment Jamin P. I hold on to a Contested War Zone to play when I'm ready for the final big swing if possible. The deck can function on one or two lands if needed, so you can hold the CWZ until you are ready to recur Bloodghast, then get a Battlecry in as well.
Also, any thoughts on how good Dark Tutelage might be in this deck? I feel like it could be good in place of Lead the Stampede but it is slower to take affect. Sideboard worthy vs red and/or white decks with sweepers?
Yes, if things go completely horribly wrong, it does suck to have tossed your hand away before a board wipe. That said, Zombie Infestation allows you to turn a top decked land or late 0 drop into a 2/2 body, which is important for this deck. It facilitates better use of your otherwise dead cards and can get an otherwise uncastable Vengevine or two onto the field.
Ornithopter is evasive, drops turn 1 to add extra damage, a creature spell for recurring Vengevine, and a chump blocker. Best top deck ever? Of course not, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it's uses.
I appreciate the criticism, I would have liked some constructive criticism instead though. What would you suggest I do with those cards instead to make the deck better? As far as I can tell, those seem to be the best cards to fill that function in the deck but I'm open to suggestions.
4x Signal Pest
4x Memnite
4x Tormented Soul
4x Vault Skirge
4x Pulse Tracker
4x Bloodghast
4x Vengevine
Spells: 12
2x Mox Opal
2x Lead the Stampede
2x Dark Tutelage
3x Zombie Infestation
3x Dismember
4x Contested War Zone
4x Verdant Catacomb
4x Forest
8x Swamp
4x Spellskite
1x Dismember
3x Jinxed Idol
3x Naturalize
4x Phyrexian Revoker
I'm still working on the sideboard and would like some help with that.
The deck tries to win as soon as possible, hinging mainly on Battle Cry and cheap bodies to attack for large amounts of damage as soon as possible while maintaining a level of resilience to the general downfalls of Aggro decks. Zombie Infestation allows you to turn dead cards in your hand into more bodies at instant speed and a 2/2 body is not bad. Vengevine and Bloodghast combo with Z.I. to net you more bodies, are resilient against removal once in play and have haste to boot. Everything else is pretty self explanatory, more bodies=more damage.
As a side note, I've tried posting this in threads that seemed appropriate and haven't gotten any response. So, I'm making this thread to get some actual help. I feel this can be a competitive deck and deserves some attention. Thank you in advance for any suggestions or advice.