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  • posted a message on Marisi, Breaker of the Coil (Let's Brew!)
    Total war doesn’t really do anything if you’ve hit them with marisi from what I can tell. They already have to attack with everything anyway?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Question about priority
    I probably wouldn't bother reading this.

    As regards #1, there are a few tricks you can use to exploit the way people play the game without breaking the rules (which you did break the rules, as others have said). If you play a boardwipe, and you see someone else has something else they're very likely to do (for example - they have a skitheryx, the blight dragon sitting around and will probably choose to regenerate it). In that case, you can choose not to cast your indestructible spell. If they activate skittles, priority will come back around to you, but most likely if someone has a counterspell they're planning to use, they'll go ahead and use it rather than wait for skittles regenerate ability to resolve first. So you chance choose to wait until the last minute, once skittles regen ability has resolved and it's the very last time around the board before the boardwipe resolves, and THEN play your indestructible spell.

    You can also do this by putting some other, less critical spell/ability of your own on the stack above your board wipe. Like, cast the boardwipe, hold priority, cast heal or whatever. Priority passes for heal to resolve, and then you can cast the indestructible spell once heal resolves.

    Now, both of these tricks rely on your opponents not waiting until the last possible chance to cast their counterspells. But they could still theoretically do that. People just usually don't. In the first trick, your opponents could also be super savvy, realize what you're doing, and then choose not to use otherwise-obvious abilities like the skittles one in order to screw you over by not giving you priority back, and just let the board wipe resolve. Or maybe they actually have something else they need the mana for more - it is possible.

    Mind you, it's probably not worth it for your deck because you get back the indestructible spell anyway, unless feather's dead, they kill the target in response, or they outright counterspell the indestructible. In your case, it might be cleaner to just cast the indestructible spell BEFORE the board wipe - there's no a lot of reason not to. By putting both on the stack at once, you're just giving your opponents more information.

    There, more nitty-gritty than you ever wanted. I told you not to read it.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on C19 Another Bust?
    Quote from Carthage »
    They tried to cover too many bases and ended up alienating existing players.


    They had to add substantial madness and morph support to get people interested in those strategies, and they missed the mark completely. So no experienced player cares about the commanders anymore, no one wants to build a morph deck when there are no good morph creatures, same for madness.

    They could have salvaged this with valuable reprints or solid new playable cards, but they missed on this as well. I mostly don't care about the reprints, and I mostly don't care about the new cards. They aren't exciting.

    The product is definitely a bust.
    I've been playing magic for 17 years and commander for 10. I plan on building decks for Anje, Sevinne, Elsha, and Rayami - and maybe others as the urge strikes me. More than I can say for...actually any other commander release. And I know others in a similar boat.

    Unless you're playing cEDH, moderating power levels is always necessary. Sure, the madness pool is pretty weak, but that just means you can go more all-out in your build without overstepping any bounds. And it's worth pointing out - only 3 commanders are tied to narrow abilities (sevinne, anje, and kadena...and anje could be built as WGD combo tbh...). Elsha, Marisi, Ghired, Rayami, etc have plenty of flexibility in their builds.

    It's also worth pointing out that not THAT many cards are tied to the commanders - sure, the demon sucks outside of madness, thalia's geistcaller is pretty narrow, etc - but plenty of them are fine outside of synergy (curse of fool's wisdom fits into nekusar, anje's ravager could fit into aggro builds, ignite the future is fairly strong just generally, etc).

    If you've got some solid evidence that fewer people than usual are interested in building these commanders, then let's see it - otherwise I feel like I'm seeing the same thing I've seen every release - many folks pleased, some only interested in a few commanders, and some who don't personally like any of them - and for some reason assume that means no one could.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on C19 Another Bust?
    I don't think it's an issue of strength. In most cases I think they're fine, strength-wise, they're just narrow because a lot of them are designed to fit with the commander of the deck they're placed in.

    I think that's more true this year than past years, mostly because the themes they went with have little enough support that they needed more cards to be feasible.

    It's a double-edged sword - there aren't many cards I'm considering for existing decks, that's true, but it does let them design commanders that are going to have a greater divergence of strategy from existing commanders than they usually do.

    I think their primary targets are new players, and existing players who want to build a deck around the commanders using the precon as a starting point - and for those players, I think the new singles do just fine. If you're only usually buying a half-dozen singles to bolster your existing decks, you're probably not making them much money anyway. We just had MH1 which had, at least for me, a TON of new stuff for my existing decks. My guess is that they figured enfranchised players already had plenty of new toys for the year.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on C19 Another Bust?
    I'll agree that, reprint-value-wise, these are on the somewhat lower end than what we've seen from previous years, but I take big umbrage with this claim that they're going to play worse than previous years decks - ESPECIALLY 2011. Mimeo was the major exception - it had by far the most reprint value, as well as playing the best out of the box. But the other ones were hot trash.

    Kaalia was a joke out of the box - gwyllion hedge-mage? That's garbage AND makes no sense in kaalia. orzhov guildmage? razorjaw oni? dragon whelp? serra angel? oni of wild places? I mean, I'm just going down the list of creatures on the first deck, and most of them aren't just bad, they're completely unplayable in EDH. Need I go on?

    When I look at the decklists for 2019, the vast majority of cards are at least playable. There's a few real garbage cards (fervent denial? That's terrible AND makes no sense with sevinne!) but the majority of them seem like something you could happily play in a 75% version of the deck (minus the lands, I suppose, but that's always been true).

    So I call major bull***** on this "commander 2019 decklists will make new players quit because they'll lose too much" argument. 2011 decks were EASILY the worst in terms of playability - since then, I would say it's been pretty steady in terms of power level. 2019 looks pretty much on-par to me.

    You see me as a shill, but it's just that we have different priorities.

    At least imo, the precons have a few goals in this order of importance:
    1-get new players into the format with a playable deck for a reasonable cost
    2-print some new spiciness for existing players
    3-lower the cost of existing cards

    For 1, the decks look playable and decent out of the box, while still wanting upgrades for certain cards, as always. In terms of raw value, they're a lot cheaper than buying the whole thing as singles, so new players aren't getting ripped off. I'd say this is an easy check.

    For 2, I at least am very satisfied. Of course this is subjective. But there are a lot of commanders I'm very excited to build and relatively few duds. I personally find this an easy check, but I can't really argue if you just don't like the designs since it's a matter of opinion.

    For 3, I'll agree that these didn't really do much. But idgaf about that at all. So you can call me a shill for not caring about what you care about, but it doesn't come from me having an irrational love for WotC - it's just that I already have every existing card I want.

    Realize that wotc's goal is to get as many new players as possible, while keeping existing players for as long as possible. So unless you're going to up and quit over reprint value, they've done their job.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Sheldon's Thoughts on infinite combos
    I too find the sorin thing confusing - I guess it maybe has more to do with being overly harsh to a single player than it does being a powerful play? It’s definitely a weird thing to find particularly egregious.

    It does seem like a bad play to me. I’d wait until a threat had better been established, or better, wait until it’s 1:1.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on The Zirilan of the Claw Compendium
    With extraplanar lens I'd probably removal almost all the utility lands (leaving high market, miren, Myriad Landscape, Ancient Tomb, and inventor's fair).

    nim deathmantle seems like a good choice. Smileup

    cranial archive seems like a fair swap.

    So mtgsalvation WAS going to totally close, so a bunch of people set up nexus as the new mtgsalvation...then mtgsalvation DIDN'T close. So now there's just...2 mtgsalvations, basically. I just check both of them, personally, because I literally cannot spend enough time talking about magic. But it's a weird situation. Nexus is where I'm posting my new decklists, though. The decklists section here is pretty dead.

    Atla is not my cup of tea, personally, for a couple reasons.
    -I think the limitation of Zirilan is a benefit. Dragons are powerful but a single dragon can't generally end the game. So you have to use synergies and put a couple out at once and use them to control the board while you set up, etc. Just slamming down game-winning bombs was never the point, and it's a lot less fun to me. Plus exiling eot with Zirilan means you need to have a plan to make it worthwhile, you can't just start throwing things out willy-nilly like you can with Atla.
    -being random (usually) means you can't use Atla like a toolbox and respond accurately to things. I mean, as long as you're tutoring to put the creature on top, you may as well just tutor to hand and play it. And I can't think of that many topdeck tutors off the top of my head. Maybe...4? And one really sucks?
    -needing to die means you need a sac outlet...obviously zirilan often runs sac outlets too, but you don't NEED them necessarily, I've still happily grabbed hellkite tyrant for a big artifact theft even though it meant it would get exiled. Anyway, it just means more moving parts.
    -Naya is a lot stronger than mono-red. I think Zirilan is fun because he shores up a lot of mono-red's weaknesses; atla takes an already fine color combination and just adds extra juice where it wasn't necessary. Also I just dislike naya.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on The Zirilan of the Claw Compendium
    Hey there, thanks for stopping by! I'm honored you created an account to chat about one of my guides Grin

    I'd try to find something with a similar effect - nothing is really as good as mana crypt, but I'd pick the next best mana rock and slot that in. Gauntlet of might can be switched for gauntlet of power - it's a lot worse, though, because it's the same CMC as Zirilan. Lens might work but make sure you have a lot of basic mountains, and probably don't if you're in a meta with a lot of artifact destruction. Cavern of souls is totally optionally, just throw in a mountain. Tawnos' coffin is sort of a gimmick, replace it with whatever you like really. Maybe another sac outlet, or a perm effect like conjurer's closet.

    WGD is a great answer to lots of things...if it works. If someone kills it/bounces it/looks at it funny when the ability is on the stack, you are totally screwed (probably...if you can untap zirilan and if you have enough mana you could go grab changeling berserker (if it's still in the deck), exile WGD, then sac berserker (if you have a sac outlet) to return WGD and create the trigger again, without removal on the stack above it...but that's a lot of "if"s). Basically, it's an all-in trick that I probably wouldn't recommend unless it's a dire situation. It's insanely strong vs, say, jokulhaups but it's not worth it to protect your sol ring, is basically what i'm saying. And it's a lot, lot worse if your meta has a lot of instant-speed removal.

    I have a version of the recursion deck that I keep around, but truth be told I haven't played it for a while. I have a big collection (just passed 8000 cards) and I build new decks from it constantly, and then disassemble them when I'm bored. So I play a lot of new decks, and don't play my old favorites very often. For the past few years Phelddagrif has been my focus, whenever I do play an established deck, so Zirilan has kind of sat on the shelf mostly. The other problem is that, tbh, WotC hasn't printed an exciting card for Zirilan in a while...Drakuseth is a nice addition but he's not exactly a game-changer or anything, he kinda fits in somewhere next to bogardan hellkite and balefire dragon - bogardan gives us instant-speed damage, balefire gives us a sweeper...drakuseth has a bigger body and doesn't need to connect to deal damage, but like I said he's not really a new effect, just a slightly different delivery. So, no current testing at the moment, sorry =/ but I am testing Phelddagrif stuff (more details are on the primer on the nexus forums: https://www.mtgnexus.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=550).

    Also right now I'm in Azerbaijan where apparently magic doesn't exist. So for the week I'm just screeching about the 2019 commander release instead of actually playing any magic :p
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on C19 Another Bust?
    Quote from illakunsaa »
    Why would you want to intruduce new players to commander? Edh is one of the most complex formats and people who are just starting with mtg shouldn't really play it first.
    That is also true...

    I think mtg still lacks a good intro format. Standard is easier to learn, but there's no "casual standard" really. Eternal formats have enormous card pools that are impossible to follow. Limited is probably the best option, but it has a lot of skills to master that don't exist in other formats, so it's kind of overkill if you're trying to graduate to standard or commander.

    I think that's what brawl is supposed to be - commander casualness but with a lower barrier to entry.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on C19 Another Bust?
    Quote from Cainsson »
    Diversity made by keeping new players down is only fun for mediocre people who don't want to play up to the enfranchised player's level. Getting trounced as a noob (for what ammounts to being trained wrong, as a joke) is not fun, and winning vs people who can't defend themselves isn't fun either as an enfranchised player.

    Decks also don't need to be 100% cEDH decks to be good, 75%+ of enfranchised players don't play at that level judging for the numbers at reddit/discord/deckstats/etc. Edgar, Breya, Meren, Freyalise, Ob and Daretti were all capable (not likely or favored but still able) of winning in an average 4 player casual table vs other popular commanders. They could do that because of a combination of great new cards and excellent reprints that complemented their strategy.

    Wining is fun, playing good cards is fun, adapting your deck to your local meta is also more fun when the adaptation isn't "throw 80 of the 100 cards you paid $40 for in the trash". Just because some of us had to make do without the internet, without online shops delivering to our front step, LGS not having what we need in stock or having it drastically overpriced, dealing with sharks and abusive players more interested in finally having someone to bully than helping us get better, and all of the other terrible ***** that used to come with being a noob, doesn't mean we have to make new players live through that crap.
    I feel like you're not hearing me. Every year's precons to date - and I highly doubt this years will be different - are perfectly capable of winning at a 75% table. If you're new, it'll be pretty hard. If you're good, it's pretty doable. But either way, possible. I think that's a good level for the precons to be at, personally. It's not a joke, a trick, or a scam. It's a huge improvement for players that otherwise would cobble something together from whatever jank they have lying around.

    I'd say maybe 5% of edh players play cEDH in my personal experience. Even players who "play cEDH" are usually playing tier 2 or 3 decks at best. I've never run into anyone playing flash hulk or food chain combo at any group I've played in. And I've played in a lot of groups.

    I think you're taking the way an experienced player would approach the precons and assuming that a new player would, or should, want to do it the same way. Most new players who start with precons that I've played against make gradual improvements - cut a card they don't like, find a card they do like, and improve their deck bit by bit. They don't generally just leap immediately from precon to fully-optimized in one fell swoop, like an enfranchised player would. Sure, after a year of playing the deck, maybe they've replaced more than half of it, but that's fine, they've been learning the whole time - both about how to play and build the deck, and about what they personally like and don't like about the deck, and building the deck to accentuate those features.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on C19 Another Bust?
    I think it's important to remember that, in most groups, precons essentially form the floor for competitiveness. There was a time when you could expect at least one person at a given table to be playing a deck composed of draft chaff with a commander they liked from the story as the commander. Those days are long past.

    In the theoretical universe where wotc prints precons strong enough that they can compete with 75% constructed decks, imo that really takes the fun out of making your own deck. The precons aren't super strong, but I've both won with them while playing against constructed decks, and I've even lost to one when playing my own constructed decks once or twice. They aren't garbage, they've got some game. If they're too strong, new players don't get the fun of the gradual improvement of their deck and seeing dramatic improvements as they cut the chaff for cool cards they discovered. That upward trajectory is, imo, critical to the drive of players. If you start off winning 20% of games and gradually climb to 25%, it's not super satisfying. If you start off winning 5% and make it to 15% after making some upgrades, that feels like a big improvement and is much more satisfying.

    Event decks for standard are kind of necessary because, in a 1v1 format, there's a lot less room for sucking. You'll be playing against meta decks in most LGSs and your deck will need to handle their strength in a straight-up 1v1 fight in order to have a chance.

    But that's not true for commander. With multiplayer balance being what it is, a new players with precons can probably expect to draw a lot less attention than other players with better decks. Hence how it's actually feasible to win with one. I think my winrate with precons is probably like 20% or so...which is still a far cry from my winrate playing my own decks (or borrowed decks). But it's still not bad. If you've got the skills you can absolutely make up for the weakness of a precon. I still remember time when I lost to a guy playing a precon, because he absolutely knew what he was doing and it was damn impressive play.

    I kinda lost track of what I was saying. I guess the point is - I don't really want to live in a world where precons are at the same power level as constructed decks out of the box. Flat power levels are good for other formats, but in commander a diversity of power levels is more fun imo.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on {C19} Mystic intelect full deck list + command zone preview card - Elsha of the Infinite
    Quote from Kilamandaros »
    And how they've missed obvious reprints like Past in Flames for a flashback deck is crazy...
    Well, past in flames kinda sucks with how Savinne works. They probably didn't want to create feel-bads when players flashback PiF all excited to double-cast their next spell, and then realize they actually pointlessly double-casted PiF instead.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on C19 Another Bust?
    Hey, greaves plus garruk 2.0 in the populate deck. Any chance that does anything to slake your tiresome thirst for reprints?
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on C19 Another Bust?
    Personally I think magic is more fun when it’s a long journey toward perfection. Give someone a precon that’s already halfway optimised and there’s less to learn. I played for years with terrible decks until I learned and improved. It was a lot of fun gradually improving over time, instead of just being handed it easily.

    Also more diversity is more fun imo. Sure lockets are usually worse but sometimes not. New Players should try lots of cards and see what they prefer imo, instead of falling into well-worn staples before they even know what they’re doing.

    Also not super relevant but medallions are god-awful in 3c. It would really detract from playing well out of the box.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on C19 Another Bust?
    Quote from Cainsson »
    Contrarians will make up all the excuses in the world, but this product line has objectively lost quality from it's C14-C16 peak while removing one deck and increasing the price by 33%.
    That's only true if you define quality as being worth more money.

    I will agree that I wish they hadn't increased the cost, but that's the only thing I can agree on. Personally I think the commanders this set are much better than 2014 or 2015.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
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