Making this, at a CMC of 4, instant speed would not make it broken, it would make it a good card that would likely see a lot of play in blue based decks.
I agree wholeheartedly about the cost reduction aspect of delve being the broken part, but I think that even at 4CMC instant this is too powerful. It blows Fact or Fiction completely out of the water, even if FoF draws you 3 cards sometimes. Like I said, I think they'd rather err on the side of "not powerful enough" and end up with a bulk rare than "whoops, looks like that was broken after all" and have to scramble.
How strong would this be as an Instant? Yes, little Tef and blue leyline allow you to cast it at instant speed, but why not make it instant? Anticipate is an instant. I think they were playing it safe with this. Will still give it a shot though.
Did you ever play with Dig Through Time? That is this card, at instant speed. It's banned / restricted in every format because it is BUSTED. I was playing standard with Jeskai back in Khans when that card was printed. It was great in Standard, busted in Modern, and completely broken in Legacy and Vintage. Funnily though, it was generally overshadowed by Treasure Cruise, which somehow is even more broken than Dig Through Time is.
Seriously, go buy a playset of Digs, they're cheap. Then put them in ANY blue deck that can support the Delve mechanic and watch the sparks fly.
Preferably, your deck would have a 2 card combo that you could find with Dig, like Splinter Twin + Pestermite, Omniscience + Show and Tell. You cast the Dig Through Time at the end of your opponent's turn, untap, and win. Basically, that's why that card isn't an instant. Although this costs a hard 4 mana and Dig could be cast for 2 with delve, I think they still didn't want to go anywhere close to the ban land that was Dig Through Time, hence the sorcery speed.
Instead of splashing white for path, you could splash black for decay I think.
Has somebody thought of splashing black for sideboard cards like Abrupt Decay? With a mana base like 2 Forest, 2 Breeding Pool, 1 Overgrown Tomb. Decay is excellent against Burn's creatures, Melira, Spellskite, various hatebears, everything in affinity including plating, Jund's creatures... and many others. It doesn't cost you as much life as Dismember, but is more expensive to cast.
This was actually an old Pro Tour infect build by Ari Lax in 2012 (YouTube Deck tech here, and decklist here). The concept was to use main deck or sideboarded Thoughtseize to allow you to push through hate / removal. However, the mana base proved to be somewhat unreliable and painful; also, the evasion provided by Plague Stinger was not that good due to the rise of decks playing things like Restoration Angel (in UWR midrange builds) and Lingering Souls in Abzan (at that time called Junk).
Because of these weaknesses, and the realization that Gitaxian Probe and more protection / pump allowed you to close games out before many relevant cards even came on line, caused an eventual shift away from the Sultai builds and towards UG. I've played both (I've been playing infect since Modern's inception in 2011); arguments can be made for and against both builds.
However, the current consensus is that the black splash isn't worth it due to the instability of your manabase - it just requires you to run more lands (fetches particularly) so that you avoid color screw. While there are already reasonable, albeit not universal answers in UG (Nature's Claim, Dismember, Twisted Image being prime examples), none of these answer things as cleanly as a card like Abrupt Decay. The other issue is that the difference between 1 and 2 mana in this deck is ENORMOUS and cannot be understated. You are frequently operating on very thin margins both life and mana-wise as you try to kill your opponent as the clock is ticking. Usually, it's easier to pay 4 life and 1 mana for Dismember than try to make GB for Abrupt Decay, especially if you're targeting something like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben.
Quote from VegaTDM »
Has anyone tried Thing In The Ice? Several local players are exclaiming how good it is, but it just looks bad because it bounces your infect creatures.
Personally I have not tested with this card, but I cannot see how this is good in an infect build. A wall that bounces your infect creatures? what happens if it just gets killed / Path'ed after it flips? you have an empty board and no way to deal infect or regular damage, unless you happen to have an Inkmoth Nexus in play.
Quote from Existenz »
Very interested to hear about this since TiTi is one of my favorite cards from the last couple of sets. Would love to hear more - are they playing it in the main or sideboard? How many copies? What has it been good against? I could definately see testing three copies in my sideboard instead of Kitchen Finks.
What are you boarding Kitchen Finksagainst that Thing in the Ice would be a better replacement for? Aggro decks like Burn or Zoo? As was said on the previous page, I don't think that TiTi furthers our gameplan and can actually hinder it by bouncing our own creatures. If you face a lot of Burn, then either Pulse of Murasa (my preference) or Kitchen Finks are likely better. Also, Dispel is bonkers against Burn as it hits its most relevant cards. Don't forget about boarding Nature's Claim as well to deal with Eidolon of the Great Revel and any possible Spellskites or other shenanigans.
Just wanted to echo multiple people who have suggested investing in lands first. They unlock the largest amount of cards and allow you to play whatever you like color wise. Also, the shocks (Steam Vents, Watery Grave, etc) are still generally $12 or less, which is probably as cheap as they will ever be. The Khans fetches have spiked pretty hard since rotation (Wooded Foothills, for example, was $30-40 a playset and now sits at more than $20 each), but still remain around $20-30 each and are pretty much the best mana fixing you can possibly get.
When I started playing modern in 2011-12, I was lucky enough to pick up Zendikar fetches for $8-12 each. Now the cheapest of these is around $35-40. If you're not looking to play a new deck right this instant, you may be able to save some cash on fetches and buy them right after rotation when their price starts to fall after leaving standard. They will inevitably rise in the long run just like the Zendikar fetches did, as they are essential to being able to have consistent mana in the Modern format.
There is no such thing as too many decks. There is a thing as playing too many different decks, however. When I was first playing modern in 2012, my local meta was full of twin (maindecking spellskite), UWR control, UWR Geist, and Jund. I was playing Infect, and those decks are generally terrible matchups. Because of this, I started changing my deck every few weeks, playing BW Tokens, Esper Control, Zoo, and a few others. What I found out was that if you change decks too much, you never learn the ins and outs of match ups and you lose percentage points in matches due to inexperience. I have about 10 modern decks put together currently, but almost any time I play competitively, I play Infect. Knowing how every card in your deck interacts with the cards in the most common match ups is incredibly valuable. I can redirect Arcbound Ravager counters to my Spellskite. I can counter Splinter Twin with Vines of Vastwood. If you try to Cryptic Command, bounce my creature and tap my team, I'll protect my guy to counter the Cryptic and kill you now that you're tapped out. If you play a different deck every week, you don't get to learn these kind of intricacies.
Now, when I play at home with my wife we play with whatever. She really has been enjoying a Junk build with 4 Voice of Resurgence, so I've been playing all sort of stuff against this including Twin, Burn, Shamans, Allies, Infect, Elves, and Zoo. Playing with different decks helps you learn how to play against those decks as well, but if you spread yourself too think you end up as a jack of all trades, master of none. As others have said, proficiency with one or two decks is probably your best bet, but don't be afraid to try out other things when you're playing for fun or at an FNM or something.
I play main deck Dryad Arbor, but I have a significant number of Lili's in my meta with people playing Junk, Jund, and 8 rack. I agree with the above posters in that it's a great surprise play - when you're opponent thinks they have a clear shot to swing in for the kill, you fetch up the Arbor, chump one of their creatures, and they're dead on the crack back. Many people wont play around this.
This depends somewhat on what type of deck you're building. If you're building midrange / control (which mardu will trend towards in modern), then most of the best cards have already been mentioned. There's also Obzedat, Ghost Council and Teysa, Orzhov Scion (although she is more build around me than stand alone). Tidehollow Sculler is an option for a disruptive creature, as are Aven Mindcensor, Vryn Wingmare and Hushwing Gryff. Blade Splicer could be considered in a blink / D&T type build.
I've played around with a version of this deck while playing casually with my wife. If you forego the dark confidant, it's a fun budget deck, but underpowered in my experience (which people have mentioned above).
I played a version with blood artist however, and it added a combo-y aspect to things when the board stalled. It also allowed for a significant amount of unexpected reach, being able to sac guys to drain life and then have an indestructible flyer or a bear with protection. I could frequently get in for 6-10 damage rather suddenly by dropping Falkenrath aristocrat on a stalled board. Fun deck, probably somewhat competitive in a local meta, but not for bigger tournaments.
$167 on a HP Underground sea, and $150 a piece on two Volcanic islands along with $80 for a bayou. Splurged after getting a $10,000 bonus at work, also got 3 scrubland, a plateau, and a badlands for about $250 total, along with a bunch of staple upgrades for my EDH deck. It was the biggest MTG related purchase I've ever made.
They (WotC) film the matches well. Their overlays are very useful and entertaining. Their presentation is great. They look very professional, and I appreciate that. Their broadcast team is trash though.
This a thousand times. WoTC's production outpaces SCG for sure, but the SCG announcers (particularly Patrick Sullivan, as I think his insights on match ups and card evaluations with changing gamestates is excellent) blow them out of the water. It's embarrassing when I'm trying to watch Modern coverage and there are literally 10 second pauses of dead air because the announcers don't know whats going on in the match or cannot give any insightful commentary beyond "Player X draws for turn - looks like a Cryptic Command". It seems like no one has ever given any of the WoTC team and instruction on announcing - you should NEVER have dead air during a telecast if your an announcer.
I play WB Tokens in modern, so I initially got pretty excited about this card. Honestly, I thought the same things as you until I read the rules text of Outlast. The sorcery speed kills this card. In a deck like Tokens, which is already full at the 3cmc slot (Lingering Souls, Brimaz, Spectral Procession, even sometimes Blade Splicer or Liliana of the Veil), having another sorcery speed 3 casting cost thing is impossible.
As for what you mentioned about a UW shell, I figure you may want some counterspells or instant speed interaction in your build, and Herald sucks up mana at sorcery speed. I just think that the effect isn't enough for 3cmc at sorcery speed when your Herald can just get killed once he's big enough to cause a problem, and 3 or 4 1/1 soldier tokens just isn't enough residual value for the 10-13 mana you would be spending to get there.
The extra mental load placed on new players to learn deck names is quite minimal, as evidenced by the number of decks with non-indicative or oblique names that exist just fine in the format (there's little intuitive to connect "Death and Taxes" to "Mono White Control" or "Zoo" to "R/G/W Aggro" or "Junk" to "B/G/W Midrange" or whatever else). There really is no reason to ignore Magic history when there's nothing to gain by doing so.
I particularly agree about the history aspect of things. Why ignore it to come with another non-intuitive name? While i can understand the (color) - (cards / archetypal strategy) convention of naming, it's boring and still requires new players to look things up. Weren't playing when Tron lands were in standard a number of years back? RG Tron doesn't make a ton of sense then - Gotta look some stuff up. Just started playing during RTR? Wait, whats a Kiki Pod deck? Is "Pod" the name of the card? or is it Kiki?
The truth is, new players have to look up info on any deck in any nonrotating format, since they don't have the inherent card knowledge that veterans do. That knowledge allows us to understand what the tactics of decks are when they have things like Delver, Pod, or Affinity in their names. I just think that changing a name because "it makes it harder for new players to figure out what the deck does" is a bogus argument. This is a complex game - particularly in nonrotating formats - and therefore learning about decks is going to take some modicum of effort no matter what.
This also matters much less in the Google / smartphone era we're currently living in:
Player 1: "Deadguy Ale? What the hell is that?"
Player 2: (looks on his iPhone for 15 seconds) "Looks like a BW midrange deck. I pulled up the primer on MTGS. Wanna check it out?"
Is that really too much to expect from new players getting into the game?
At my LGS there are multiple copies of power 9 - including , , and - that have been altered. The artist put things and storm clouds above both the Lotus and the Ancestral, but I can't recall the art on the . I just remember staring at them and thinking "is this actually pimp, or just stupid?"
Somebody was just like 'this $3500 card would look way better with lightning on it!'... so they put lightning on it. I'm just not sure how to feel about it. I'll have to try to get a pic of it next time I go down to my LGS.
Seriously though, I agree with many of the above posters who have been saying that generally newer players take the stance that the OP is railing against. In general, newer players play less interactive games of magic (see the concept of the GW "Little Kid" archetype that has no removal). There are multiple conceptual jumps to be made as you progress up the ladder of game complexity and competitive play, and lots of people at the FNM level have not made those jumps. They just like to play their cards, try to execute their strategy, and if they lose because they can't win the race, so be it.
However, if they never get to execute their plan at all, and then you drop an unkillable fatty like Aetherling or Elspeth, Sun's Champion, they get pissed because they feel like they "didn't even get to play". It's when they realize that their version of fun is not necessarily the same as everyone else that they can start to make those conceptual leaps.
I'm trying to put together a list of all the spells /abilities that can be cast for free (as in no mana) in modern and here's what I've come up with so far:
I agree wholeheartedly about the cost reduction aspect of delve being the broken part, but I think that even at 4CMC instant this is too powerful. It blows Fact or Fiction completely out of the water, even if FoF draws you 3 cards sometimes. Like I said, I think they'd rather err on the side of "not powerful enough" and end up with a bulk rare than "whoops, looks like that was broken after all" and have to scramble.
Did you ever play with Dig Through Time? That is this card, at instant speed. It's banned / restricted in every format because it is BUSTED. I was playing standard with Jeskai back in Khans when that card was printed. It was great in Standard, busted in Modern, and completely broken in Legacy and Vintage. Funnily though, it was generally overshadowed by Treasure Cruise, which somehow is even more broken than Dig Through Time is.
Seriously, go buy a playset of Digs, they're cheap. Then put them in ANY blue deck that can support the Delve mechanic and watch the sparks fly.
Preferably, your deck would have a 2 card combo that you could find with Dig, like Splinter Twin + Pestermite, Omniscience + Show and Tell. You cast the Dig Through Time at the end of your opponent's turn, untap, and win. Basically, that's why that card isn't an instant. Although this costs a hard 4 mana and Dig could be cast for 2 with delve, I think they still didn't want to go anywhere close to the ban land that was Dig Through Time, hence the sorcery speed.
This was actually an old Pro Tour infect build by Ari Lax in 2012 (YouTube Deck tech here, and decklist here). The concept was to use main deck or sideboarded Thoughtseize to allow you to push through hate / removal. However, the mana base proved to be somewhat unreliable and painful; also, the evasion provided by Plague Stinger was not that good due to the rise of decks playing things like Restoration Angel (in UWR midrange builds) and Lingering Souls in Abzan (at that time called Junk).
Because of these weaknesses, and the realization that Gitaxian Probe and more protection / pump allowed you to close games out before many relevant cards even came on line, caused an eventual shift away from the Sultai builds and towards UG. I've played both (I've been playing infect since Modern's inception in 2011); arguments can be made for and against both builds.
However, the current consensus is that the black splash isn't worth it due to the instability of your manabase - it just requires you to run more lands (fetches particularly) so that you avoid color screw. While there are already reasonable, albeit not universal answers in UG (Nature's Claim, Dismember, Twisted Image being prime examples), none of these answer things as cleanly as a card like Abrupt Decay. The other issue is that the difference between 1 and 2 mana in this deck is ENORMOUS and cannot be understated. You are frequently operating on very thin margins both life and mana-wise as you try to kill your opponent as the clock is ticking. Usually, it's easier to pay 4 life and 1 mana for Dismember than try to make GB for Abrupt Decay, especially if you're targeting something like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben.
Personally I have not tested with this card, but I cannot see how this is good in an infect build. A wall that bounces your infect creatures? what happens if it just gets killed / Path'ed after it flips? you have an empty board and no way to deal infect or regular damage, unless you happen to have an Inkmoth Nexus in play.
What are you boarding Kitchen Finksagainst that Thing in the Ice would be a better replacement for? Aggro decks like Burn or Zoo? As was said on the previous page, I don't think that TiTi furthers our gameplan and can actually hinder it by bouncing our own creatures. If you face a lot of Burn, then either Pulse of Murasa (my preference) or Kitchen Finks are likely better. Also, Dispel is bonkers against Burn as it hits its most relevant cards. Don't forget about boarding Nature's Claim as well to deal with Eidolon of the Great Revel and any possible Spellskites or other shenanigans.
When I started playing modern in 2011-12, I was lucky enough to pick up Zendikar fetches for $8-12 each. Now the cheapest of these is around $35-40. If you're not looking to play a new deck right this instant, you may be able to save some cash on fetches and buy them right after rotation when their price starts to fall after leaving standard. They will inevitably rise in the long run just like the Zendikar fetches did, as they are essential to being able to have consistent mana in the Modern format.
Now, when I play at home with my wife we play with whatever. She really has been enjoying a Junk build with 4 Voice of Resurgence, so I've been playing all sort of stuff against this including Twin, Burn, Shamans, Allies, Infect, Elves, and Zoo. Playing with different decks helps you learn how to play against those decks as well, but if you spread yourself too think you end up as a jack of all trades, master of none. As others have said, proficiency with one or two decks is probably your best bet, but don't be afraid to try out other things when you're playing for fun or at an FNM or something.
Bloodghast, Bloodsoaked Champion, and Rakdos Cackler could work in a more aggressive build. No one has mentioned Young Pyromancer yet, but that's probably because it's hard to make work without the cheap cantrip spells blue provides.
I played a version with blood artist however, and it added a combo-y aspect to things when the board stalled. It also allowed for a significant amount of unexpected reach, being able to sac guys to drain life and then have an indestructible flyer or a bear with protection. I could frequently get in for 6-10 damage rather suddenly by dropping Falkenrath aristocrat on a stalled board. Fun deck, probably somewhat competitive in a local meta, but not for bigger tournaments.
This a thousand times. WoTC's production outpaces SCG for sure, but the SCG announcers (particularly Patrick Sullivan, as I think his insights on match ups and card evaluations with changing gamestates is excellent) blow them out of the water. It's embarrassing when I'm trying to watch Modern coverage and there are literally 10 second pauses of dead air because the announcers don't know whats going on in the match or cannot give any insightful commentary beyond "Player X draws for turn - looks like a Cryptic Command". It seems like no one has ever given any of the WoTC team and instruction on announcing - you should NEVER have dead air during a telecast if your an announcer.
As for what you mentioned about a UW shell, I figure you may want some counterspells or instant speed interaction in your build, and Herald sucks up mana at sorcery speed. I just think that the effect isn't enough for 3cmc at sorcery speed when your Herald can just get killed once he's big enough to cause a problem, and 3 or 4 1/1 soldier tokens just isn't enough residual value for the 10-13 mana you would be spending to get there.
In some seriousness though, I agree with Teia:
I particularly agree about the history aspect of things. Why ignore it to come with another non-intuitive name? While i can understand the (color) - (cards / archetypal strategy) convention of naming, it's boring and still requires new players to look things up. Weren't playing when Tron lands were in standard a number of years back? RG Tron doesn't make a ton of sense then - Gotta look some stuff up. Just started playing during RTR? Wait, whats a Kiki Pod deck? Is "Pod" the name of the card? or is it Kiki?
The truth is, new players have to look up info on any deck in any nonrotating format, since they don't have the inherent card knowledge that veterans do. That knowledge allows us to understand what the tactics of decks are when they have things like Delver, Pod, or Affinity in their names. I just think that changing a name because "it makes it harder for new players to figure out what the deck does" is a bogus argument. This is a complex game - particularly in nonrotating formats - and therefore learning about decks is going to take some modicum of effort no matter what.
This also matters much less in the Google / smartphone era we're currently living in:
Player 1: "Deadguy Ale? What the hell is that?"
Player 2: (looks on his iPhone for 15 seconds) "Looks like a BW midrange deck. I pulled up the primer on MTGS. Wanna check it out?"
Is that really too much to expect from new players getting into the game?
At my LGS there are multiple copies of power 9 - including , , and - that have been altered. The artist put things and storm clouds above both the Lotus and the Ancestral, but I can't recall the art on the . I just remember staring at them and thinking "is this actually pimp, or just stupid?"
Somebody was just like 'this $3500 card would look way better with lightning on it!'... so they put lightning on it. I'm just not sure how to feel about it. I'll have to try to get a pic of it next time I go down to my LGS.
Seriously though, I agree with many of the above posters who have been saying that generally newer players take the stance that the OP is railing against. In general, newer players play less interactive games of magic (see the concept of the GW "Little Kid" archetype that has no removal). There are multiple conceptual jumps to be made as you progress up the ladder of game complexity and competitive play, and lots of people at the FNM level have not made those jumps. They just like to play their cards, try to execute their strategy, and if they lose because they can't win the race, so be it.
However, if they never get to execute their plan at all, and then you drop an unkillable fatty like Aetherling or Elspeth, Sun's Champion, they get pissed because they feel like they "didn't even get to play". It's when they realize that their version of fun is not necessarily the same as everyone else that they can start to make those conceptual leaps.
Pact cycle (Pact of Negation, Pact of the Titan)
Shoal cycle (Disrupting Shoal, Sickening Shoal)
Phyrexian spells (Gitaxian Probe, Gut Shot, Noxious Revival)
Free Mana (Simian Spirit Guide)
Other (Street Wraith)
I'm sure I'm missing some. Can someone help me out here?