I want to try out Linvala in my SB as a 1-of for specifically those matchups but I am in the process of foiling out this deck and I don't really want to get a foil Linvala haha
But I think it could be quite good in the GW version since we could possibly play it on turn 3 vs those decks.
Well the real issue is that the BW version has a horrible manabase since it doesn't have Horizon Canopy or Razorverge Thicket equivalents. So it is forced to run Isolated Chapel which is awful in a deck with so many utility lands and Fetid Heath which can only be run as a 1 or 2 of and also doesn't team up well with our utility lands.
Honestly, I would be on the BW version in a heartbeat if it had a reasonable manabase. Imo, cards like Dark Confidant, Tidehollow Sculler, Pack Rat, Orzhov Pontiff and Sin Collector are far stronger than their green counterparts but the manabase is just too shaky for my liking.
I played the same list as I did yesterday except for -1 SB Mirran Crusader and +1 Burrenton Forge-Tender and ended up going 3-0. I beat bogles (2-1), the mirror (2-1) and burn (2-0).
I still plan on making the changes I stated earlier for next week though.
I went 2-2 yesterday playing vs. RUG Twin (0-2), 8Rack (2-0), Burn (1-2) and UR Twin (2-0). I am going to play in a 3 round tournament today but I won't have the cards to make the changes I want until next week.
The RUG Twin matchup was difficult as he was leaning on 3 MB Huntermaster of the Fells. He saw and played at least 2 Huntmasters each game. 8Rack was easy as I just kept 2 lands in play and a vial on 3 while holding onto my cards and making sure to only have 1 or 2 threats deployed. Burn should of been an easy matchup and I misplayed pretty horribly by not GQing his Stomping Ground earlier and he ended up being able to cast 2 Atarka's Commands off it which sealed the deal. We played 3 additional games for fun and I quickly beat him all 3 games. In the UR Twin match the usual cast of Thalia, Wingmare, Mindcensor, Arbiter and Vial + Wisp really put a hamper on his mana base and I was able to tempo him out of both games.
I am glad I put back in the Flickerwisps as they were, as usual, fantastic all day. I do like the more taxing list but I need a little bit more beef in my deck. I still don't want to go back to the Splicer/Resto plan atm though so I'll be making the following changes:
MB Changes I plan on making for next week:
-1 Aven Mindcensor
-1 Vryn Wingmare
-1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
+1 Dismember
+1 Serra Avenger
+1 Mangara of Corondor
Well just got my foil arbiters, oozes, pridemages, flickerwisps and wingmares I'm going to have this deck foiled out within a month or two. The canopies and the hierarchs are going to hurt.
@Sheepz Yea I know I committed a sin. It was more of just a test for a full taxes list. I'm slowly adding back pieces of the core to see how far I can stretch it to a competitive tax heavy list.
@Jendo87 The strategy worked well the majority of the time. I think we are missing one more decent taxing element (creature or land) before a full on taxing list can thrive. But the list I played destroys combo, heavy spell based strategies (i.e. burn) and does well vs. Control and Delver. Although, it has nightmare matchups vs. creature strategies like zoo and fish and a draw dependent matchup vs bgx. I have to admit that my esper game loss and my gifts match loss were largely due to me keeping bad hands, I didn't mulligan aggressively enough adn kept 7 cards hand with 5 lands and 2 creatures (with lands not being utility lands). I do think that list has some unbeatable nut draws vs. blue and combo which has its appeal. Beefy creatures/beaters would def help the non blue midrange/creature based aggro matchups but that it isn't what the list is about. Also, I am not a fan of gavony. You have 10 utility lands and I tend not to ever have enough mana to activate gavony and I rather have the first 4 canopies than the first gavony (color considerations, grindy matchups and activation cost). If I were to run gavony it would be in a list with less taxers, more beaters and with less of a need for tectonic edge (that would be the land that I would cut).
So I went 2-2 with my "all taxes" list I posted earlier. When the deck worked it felt unbeatable but I found myself getting my opponent to under 4-6 life and not being able to close out the game and the game just started barely getting out of hand/unraveling. My losses were to gifts and naya midrange. The gifts deck I felt favored but I kept getting him really low before he was able to kill a taxer eot and then play a 5 mana wrath on his turn each game, it was the epitome of "winning convincingly all game until I just suddenly lost". Also Lingering souls was a huge headache but could be dealt with if it cost 4-5 mana/I had ooze/or some exalted triggers. The Naya midrange matchup was just unwinnable (He went pridemage, smiter, wilt leaf g1 and then went fleecmane lion, kitchen finks, wilt leaf g2; both times backed up with some # of bolts/helix).
I won vs. Grixis Delver and Esper Mentor. Grixis Delver was a pretty easy matchup and I won both games convincingly. The Esper Mentor matchup really was just dependent on lingering souls.
I liked the deck and the all in tax was a great learning experience/experiment and I am goign to slowly adjust the list each week.
Honestly, I don't think you really need to give "real" beats. You just slow down your opponent a bunch and just hit them for 2-4 dmg a turn until they die.
This list should have a great matchup vs. all the delver/combo/midrange decks out there. I could see it having a hard time vs. aggro (burn is easy but zoo or something like little kid junk or elves might be more difficult) but you also have an awesome sideboard that just hoses decks.
I'll be playing this list today at a 4 round Modern tournament. This store generally is all competitive tier 1/2 decks (all spikes basically) and gets up to 40+ people for their modern events.
The List:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
3 Vryn Wingmare
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Aven Mindcensor
4 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
Artifact (4)
4 AEther Vial
Land (22)
4 Temple Garden
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Stony Silence
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Spellskite
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Vryn Wingmare
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
Unfortunately, My foil Noble Hierarchs and Razorverge Thickets arrived in the mail today but I won't be able to head home before going tonight.
I am getting fairly close to foiling out the entire deck. I am missing the following:
4 AEther Vial
4 Temple Garden
4 Horizon Canopy
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Spellskite
...but that is still over ~$1,100
But I think it could be quite good in the GW version since we could possibly play it on turn 3 vs those decks.
Honestly, I would be on the BW version in a heartbeat if it had a reasonable manabase. Imo, cards like Dark Confidant, Tidehollow Sculler, Pack Rat, Orzhov Pontiff and Sin Collector are far stronger than their green counterparts but the manabase is just too shaky for my liking.
I still plan on making the changes I stated earlier for next week though.
The RUG Twin matchup was difficult as he was leaning on 3 MB Huntermaster of the Fells. He saw and played at least 2 Huntmasters each game. 8Rack was easy as I just kept 2 lands in play and a vial on 3 while holding onto my cards and making sure to only have 1 or 2 threats deployed. Burn should of been an easy matchup and I misplayed pretty horribly by not GQing his Stomping Ground earlier and he ended up being able to cast 2 Atarka's Commands off it which sealed the deal. We played 3 additional games for fun and I quickly beat him all 3 games. In the UR Twin match the usual cast of Thalia, Wingmare, Mindcensor, Arbiter and Vial + Wisp really put a hamper on his mana base and I was able to tempo him out of both games.
I am glad I put back in the Flickerwisps as they were, as usual, fantastic all day. I do like the more taxing list but I need a little bit more beef in my deck. I still don't want to go back to the Splicer/Resto plan atm though so I'll be making the following changes:
List I ran yesterday:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
4 Vryn Wingmare
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Path to Exile
Artifact (4)
4 AEther Vial
Land (22)
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Temple Garden
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Dismember
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Spellskite
3 Stony Silence
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Rest in Peace
MB Changes I plan on making for next week:
-1 Aven Mindcensor
-1 Vryn Wingmare
-1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
+1 Dismember
+1 Serra Avenger
+1 Mangara of Corondor
SB Changes:
-1 Spellskite
-1 Dismember
-1 Mirran Crusader
-2 Rest in Peace
+1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
+1 Vryn Wingmare
+1 Qasali Pridemage
+1 Scavenging Ooze
+1 Eternal Witness
New List:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
3 Vryn Wingmare
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Mangara of Corondor
4 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
Artifact (4)
4 AEther Vial
Land (22)
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Temple Garden
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Spellskite
3 Stony Silence
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Vryn Wingmare
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
WW
Creature - Human Soldier
Vigilance
When ~~ enters the battlefield, put a 1/1 white Soldier creature token onto the battlefield.
2/2
~~
1W
Creature
When ~~ enters the battlefield, draw a card.
1/2
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
4 Vryn Wingmare
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Path to Exile
Artifact (4)
4 AEther Vial
Land (22)
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Temple Garden
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Dismember
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Spellskite
3 Stony Silence
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Rest in Peace
@Jendo87 The strategy worked well the majority of the time. I think we are missing one more decent taxing element (creature or land) before a full on taxing list can thrive. But the list I played destroys combo, heavy spell based strategies (i.e. burn) and does well vs. Control and Delver. Although, it has nightmare matchups vs. creature strategies like zoo and fish and a draw dependent matchup vs bgx. I have to admit that my esper game loss and my gifts match loss were largely due to me keeping bad hands, I didn't mulligan aggressively enough adn kept 7 cards hand with 5 lands and 2 creatures (with lands not being utility lands). I do think that list has some unbeatable nut draws vs. blue and combo which has its appeal. Beefy creatures/beaters would def help the non blue midrange/creature based aggro matchups but that it isn't what the list is about. Also, I am not a fan of gavony. You have 10 utility lands and I tend not to ever have enough mana to activate gavony and I rather have the first 4 canopies than the first gavony (color considerations, grindy matchups and activation cost). If I were to run gavony it would be in a list with less taxers, more beaters and with less of a need for tectonic edge (that would be the land that I would cut).
I won vs. Grixis Delver and Esper Mentor. Grixis Delver was a pretty easy matchup and I won both games convincingly. The Esper Mentor matchup really was just dependent on lingering souls.
I liked the deck and the all in tax was a great learning experience/experiment and I am goign to slowly adjust the list each week.
I am planning on making the following changes:
MB
-4 Judge's Familiar
-2 Aven Mindcensor
+4 Flickerwisp
+2 Serra Avenger
SB
-1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
+1 Spellskite
List for next week:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Serra Avenger
4 Vryn Wingmare
4 Flickerwisp
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Path to Exile
Artifact (4)
4 AEther Vial
Land (22)
4 Temple Garden
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Forest
1 Plains
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Dismember
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Rest in Peace
3 Spellskite
3 Stony Silence
This list should have a great matchup vs. all the delver/combo/midrange decks out there. I could see it having a hard time vs. aggro (burn is easy but zoo or something like little kid junk or elves might be more difficult) but you also have an awesome sideboard that just hoses decks.
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Vryn Wingmare
4 Aven Mindcensor
Instants (4)
4 Path to Exile
4 AEther Vial
Lands (22)
4 Temple Garden
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Dismember
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Stony Silence
3 Spellskite
2 Rest in Peace