The problem with Revoker (and Meddling Mage to some extent) is that you might not know what to name G1, and if they block out important cards, they are too easy to remove. I know this sounds like "dies to removal", so if you don't trust me, trust the previous 350-ish pages of thread where everyone played Revoker, then gradually moved away from Revoker and nobody regretted it. Pithing Needle and Mage out of the SB should be cool.
Be very careful with those Glacial Fortresses, my testing shows that they come into play tapped way too often, which completely screws up your early game. If you start off with just a buddy land a Quarter/Edge in your starting hand, do you wanna skip your Vial or your turn two hatebear? Tempo is very important, so that dilemma costs games.
And for the love of god, try Blade Splicer out properly beore you dismiss it. It looks dull, but it's one of the best cards in the deck.
Edit: If you do test Clique properly, please report back to us. It looks so good, but hasn't really been tested extensively afaik.
I wasn't trying to dismiss blade splicer, I'm sure she is a beast. I just wanted to try out revokers and the meddling mages. You say you don't know what to name with those cards but in the first couple turns you should have a pretty good idea of you opponent is playing, but I have also thought about this and my first list played gitaxian probes in the spot of vapor snag. I prefer snag though.
Why doesn't any list play Phyrexian Revoker in the main or even in the sb. Seems like every top tier deck has a good target for it? Just wondering. Seems like it could be a good fit.
My buddy and I have a modern BUG list that was doing really well actually. It played a lot like jund. The only blue cards we are playing is Snapcaster, Vendilion Clique, Creeping Tarpit, Countersquall, Ashiok, and some SB cards. It tends to have a pretty good matchup vs jund, if ashiok is unanswered. I like the list a lot.
I usually only transmute for bridge in emergency stations. Most often I use transmute after I find half of the thop/sword combo (or another way to find it like a 2nd transmute or big Tezz). A lot of decks cannot beat that, especially game 1. Against a deck like RUG or BUG, that can't deal with you getting too much card advantage, transmuting a talisman into a strix is not bad. Against grindy deck like Jund, D&T or Miracles, I aim to transmute into Staff of Nin if I dont have half the thopter combo. I know there is some variation in that slot, but I think every list should have some big game winning artifact to transmute for. Staff of Nin, trading post, wurmcoil, something like that. I think staff is the best choice.
Here's the list I have been using btw. I have played TONS of test games with the deck, but only actually played it in two small tournaments with it. That said, I haven't actually lost a round yet with it and plan on playing it at some larger events pretty soon
Yeah I totally understand how it works. I just feel like the artifacts I play main aren't inherently that power sly except bridge. I basically only ever want to transmute for a bridge so I'm just feeling like it's just an okay card. I can definitely see it being much better post bored.
Yeah I totally understand how it works. I just feel like the artifacts I play main aren't inherently that power sly except bridge. I basically only ever want to transmute for a bridge so I'm just feeling like it's just an okay card. I can definitely see it being much better post bored.
Hey guys, I have been putting UB Tezz together, and in my journey I have been testing the deck as well. It all seems very solid and powerful with some deck just scooping on the spot to turn one chalice on one, but there is one glaring thing that drives me crazy about this deck. Transmute Artifacr. It seems like it is easily the worst card in the deck and I am almost never really happy to see it. Am I missing something with this card? I would almost rather them be Thirst for Knowledge. What do you guys think? Is Transmute Artifact a must have or auto include?
Lily does not actual solve the Etched Champion problem that easily. She is certainly still helpful against Affinity, but I don't think you can keep in all 4. Yes she gets Etched Champion if their board is clear, but that rarely comes up, as they too often have plenty of other targets to sacrifice. She's pretty embarrassing against any 2 random dorks on their side, not to mention they can easily ping her with a manland activation. I'm not looking for a 3-mana card that reads, "Kill Ornithopter or Memnite, gain 1 life" in this matchup. Too often she will just rot in your hand or not get enough value against their board. When they drop 4 cards on turn 1 and you're struggling to stem the bleeding, tapping out on turn 3 to take their worst creature is just not an option, and we really want to play at instant speed against them as much as possible.
If you manage to draw the nuts of Anger + Lily, you're obviously winning, but if you just draw one of them, you'd much rather it be Anger. I generally keep in 1-2 Liliana after SB against Robots as a way to truly lock up the game if I stabilize, but in my opinion the Fulminators are more important in the 3-drop slot. Etched Champ is not as much of an issue as manlands are, and not all Affinity decks have 4 copies of Champion. What they do all have is 8 manlands.
As for Jund having a "less painful" manabase than BGw, I think that's a misconception. Jund is very heavily 3-colors, and often must pay 3-5 life for lands in the first few turns to set up for all the RR/GG/BG/RB/GGG spells in the deck. 2-landers in Jund almost always require you to Bolt yourself, and even the 3-landers often require fetch+shock twice. Now, you might not HAVE to take damage from all those lands, but with the tapped lands in the deck you sometimes want to take the damage to cast your spells in the best order.
Contrast that to Rock, which is basically a 2-color deck. Rock can much more easily fetch for 2 basics and then leisurely find the last color when the time is right. Rock also doesn't need that Turn 1 land for Thoughtseize to also support cards like Anger or Lightning Bolt, or the SB cards like Ancient Grudge and Jund Charm. The difference is that Rock can wait until the 3rd or 4th or 5th land to find white mana, while Jund cannot. In short, I think that Rock decks have better control over how much pain they must take from their lands, and they aren't required to set up 3 colors immediately. Also, while Tec Edge might seem like a detriment to the manabase, don't forget that sometimes it's also a Timewalk, which then gives you more time to curve out your hand. Having the option to Tec Edge for colorless is yet another choice the Rock player has that the Jund player does not. Jund is very pressured to get it's spells cast on time, Rock has a little more flexibility.
After further consideration, I do think that BG/w probably isn't much worse against Affinity than Jund is. They might have less powerful SB cards, but having Lingering Souls game 1 is much much better. Also, Tec Edge does answer manlands if the Affinity player plays out enough lands (they generally do want 4 lands, especially when they draw multiple Nexi). As always it depends on the draws, but my guess is that BG and Jund have similar chances against Affinity.
I do still need to test BG/w before the GP. I played RUG Twin to a 6th place finish at a GPT on Wednesday, losing the Quarters to Junk in a very very close game 3. He indicated that he liked it, but would probably switch back to Jund for the GP since it has a more even keel of matchups against the field. I'm most likely still playing Jund at the GP myself, but I wanted to test a few other options.
My reasoning is that IOK on the draw does not work as Affinity dumps their hand on turn 1 (if a fast hand) or turn 2.
I'm slotting in the last Liliana due to the cards being slotted out.
Any more advice on the sideboarding techniques against Affinity would be appreciated
Frankly I do not agree with your SBing.
This is my SB and how I SB against affinity.
1 Golgari Charm
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Jund Charm
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Thrun the Last Troll
1 Thoughtseize
My Basic SB Plan. Usually doesnt matter if I am on the play or not.
Eh, Dead Guy Ale is a pretty arbitrary name to begin with and I see no reason to try to hold on to it. I assume it's just a pun on the fact that the brewery that makes the beer is Rogue Brewery and at one point it was a rogue deck? I have no idea, which is kind of the problem. The random names for deck lists are dumb to me. Like, why not call it Twinkie Hotdog? Or Laser Muffins? Any combination of words can become an inside joke if you repeat it enough, so why not actually give a deck a good name. The best deck names are those that are both distinctive and informative.
I think BW Midrange is the most descriptive. BW Attrition is similarly descriptive. BW Pack Rat is okay. I like Rat Range because it sounds funny to me while also being descriptive, but I like clever and silly (as long it isn't just arbitrary, because that's not clever).
The called it Dead Guy Ale because thats what they were drinking while they were brewing (pun...) the list for the pro tour.
What is the reason exactly in not playing Tezzeret the Seeker as a one or two of? He seems like a very good fit in this deck naturally. All of the legacy versions of this deck I have seen has played 1 or 2.
I wasn't trying to dismiss blade splicer, I'm sure she is a beast. I just wanted to try out revokers and the meddling mages. You say you don't know what to name with those cards but in the first couple turns you should have a pretty good idea of you opponent is playing, but I have also thought about this and my first list played gitaxian probes in the spot of vapor snag. I prefer snag though.
3 Thalia
3 meddling Mage
4 leonin arbiter
2 clique
4 flickerwisp
3 resto
2 revoker
4 judges familiar
2 aven mindcensor
4 Aether vial
4 path
3 vapor snag
lands:
4 ghost quarter
3 tec edge
4 seachrome coast
4 hallowed fountain
2 canopy
2 glacial fortress
3 plains
2 negate
2 linvala keeper of silence
2 eidolon of rhetoric
2 spellskite
3 Stoney silence
1 grafdiggers cage
2 burrenton-forge-tender
1 Mirian crusader
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraban
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Brimaz, King of Oresko
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tidehallow Sculler
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
Spells:
4 Thoughtseize
3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
Lands:
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Godless Shrine
1 Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Treetop Village
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Tectonic edge (or Gavony Township)
1 Path to Exile
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Duress
2 Stoney Silence
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Aven Mindcenser
2 Eidolon of Retoric
3 Lingering Souls
4 Goyf
4 Bob
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Snap
2 Clique
3 Lili
2 Ashiok
2 Slaughter Pact
2 Tragic Slip
2 Coutnersquall
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
1 Mealstrom pulse
24 Lands
3 Tarpits
1 treetop
4 darkslick shores
1 tomb
1 pool
1 watery grave
4 misty
4 verdant
1 urborg
2 swamp
1 forest
1 island
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendlion Clique
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
Spells:
3 Cryptic Command
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
3 Spell Snare
2 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Pillar of Flame
1 Electrolyze
3 Vedelken Shackles
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Serum Visions
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
1 Mountain
9 Island
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Keranos God of the Storms
2 Relic of Proginites
2 Combust
Yeah that's pretty close to my list. I like the deluge a lot.
Frankly I do not agree with your SBing.
This is my SB and how I SB against affinity.
1 Golgari Charm
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Jund Charm
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Thrun the Last Troll
1 Thoughtseize
My Basic SB Plan. Usually doesnt matter if I am on the play or not.
The called it Dead Guy Ale because thats what they were drinking while they were brewing (pun...) the list for the pro tour.