I finally carved out some time to play on MODO and ran a relatively standard URw list through a DE yesterday, going 2-2. Tough loss, as I felt good about my chances going into the last round.
I lost Round 1 on time (my girlfriend called me) vs. Blue Moon, which will take forever to play out either way anyway. This is the first time I've played the deck - I'm not sure who's favored. Game 1 I won fairly easily despite thinking it was Splinter Twin and putting two Needles on Exarch and Kiki. Eventually ran him out of Cryptics, played a Chalice on 2 to stop his counters and Snapcaster, and ran out a Tezzeret and killed him with the ultimate. Round 2 I eventually died behind a swath of Snapcasters and a Batterskull. I lost on time in Game 3, though I think I was holding up fine.
Round 2 I played against MadKat, who's been running this list quite a bit:
His clock was somehow slower than ours, and after I showed him Ruins + Explosives in Game 1, he conceeded the match. Not sure it's THAT easy, but it seems reasonable nonetheless. Blood Moon in games 2 & 3 seems very good. Nice guy though.
Round 3 I beat Burn, and actually conceded Game 1 incorrectly when I thought I was lost but wasn't. I won games 2 and 3 on the back of Leyline, Chalice on 2, Bridge, and finally Trading Post, which is close to unbeatable.
Round 4 I lost 1-2 to Ad Nauseum. I won Game 1 by Trinket Maging for Pithing Needle (to name Lightning Storm - if you're not familiar with this one remember it!). He had to Pact it and upkeep Angel's Grace to not lose, and when I cast the second Trinket Mage for the second Needle, he had to Peer Through Depths to find a second Pact, and Angel's Graced again. He had lost so much time and cards by this point that I had enough time to beat him into a negative life total and up to 10 poison counters (Phyrexian Unlife) with the two Trinket Mages. Game 2, if I remember, I had Leyline, but he managed to go off Turn 3 with a Lotus Bloom and Echoing Truth it. I couldn't interact favorably in any other way in time. Game 3 I assembled Leyline, Spellskite, and Needle on Lightning Storm, but again he was able to draw his whole deck and cast Angel's Grace, Patrician's Scorn, Hurkyl's Recall, and then Lightning Storm despite all of this. Not sure what else I could have done. Blood Moon instead of any one of those 3 permanents might have sealed the deal, I dunno.
Interesting DE nonetheless, and I'll be sure to change it up a bit and run it through a few more. I'm interested to see how we do against the Glitter Storm/Ascendancy deck that's so popular nowadays.
Also, I might be streaming some of this soon for fun, mostly because a friend likes to watch and play along. If anyone is interested, I'll post here when I start up on Twitch.
Given that Ascendancy can't do sh*t without an Ascendancy in play, I'd say we have a good shot. It's easier to deal with than Pyromancer Ascension, we can still deal with their spells, and it's a weaker deck in general.
I'm not so sure. Even though U-Tron might not have a ton of great ways to deal with the 1-drop, especially G1, you do stand a good chance of keeping Ascendancy off the table with the large number of counterspells that the deck runs. Also, if you're on one of the Chalice builds, you only really have to delay them long enough to play Chalice on 1.
I haven't been playing this deck on MODO that much lately, but I think in the next few days I'm going to start tuning and brewing, and running this guy through some more DEs. I thought I'd just pop in and post a funny picture to inspire people to keep brewing and playing.
Ceddy is a better player than me for sure, but this has to be my favorite match I've ever played - he's a great entertainer. He thought I was getting Shackles with Tezz's -X, and his face when I get Bridge is priceless.
I was referring specifically to lists closer to Wafo Tapa's original, where Snapcaster Mage is their only creature. Tons of burn, Supreme Verdicts, etc.
Eidolon of Rhetoric is an interesting idea nonetheless!
I have been playing IAMPJ's list to reasonable success considering my complete and utter lack of experience with the deck. I really liked Legacy D&T when I played it and haven't been having much success with other Modern decks, so I decided to give this one a whirl. Usually never play anything with more than 6 creatures or so, but I'm enjoying it. My record is something like 6-4 so far.
A few questions to those on his Wg list:
1. Do you bring in Kor Firewalkers against UWR Control? The lifegain isn't relevant, but dodging a ton of their removal seems interesting. I have been having a hard time in this matchup. There's so much burn, and it feels like the first time they cast Snapcaster Mage you're just way behind. I have never been able to kill them fast enough to race that first Sphinx's Rev.
2. What are you cutting in the Melira matchup for the 2 Dismembers and the 3 Crusaders? I think I cut all 3 Thalias (I wasn't sure they had enough actual spells for her to be reasonable) and 2 Flickerwisps, as both are weak to Pontiff and I thought the other cards were better.
3. Maybe this has been asked before, but thoughts on Leyline of Sanctity instead of the Firewalkers? Similarly great if not better against Burn. Worse against the UWR decks for sure, but better against Scapeshift, Storm, Ad-Nauseum, decks with heavy discard, etc. Not sure, was just considering it.
4. Thoughts on Stirring Wildwood over the Temple of Plenty?
Just as a comment from testing - Brimaz has been really good in my matches so far! His 4 toughness is super relevant.
How much have you actually tested vs. Burn? I have Chalice and Trading Post MD and 4 Leylines and an Elixir SB, and the matchup is certainly not a lock at all. Most Modern Burn decks only play 4-12 creatures anyway, and Verdict is terrible against Goblin Guide. We're a slow deck - I'm pretty sure that we're a dog Game 1, which will mean that in most circumstances, the matchup is never much better than 50/50.
I also can't condone zero copies of Thirst. I just can't!
If anyone is interested, I combed through the last week of Modern DEs to try and get a picture of what the MTGO metagame looks like. Attached as an image are the top point scorers (a 4-0 is +4, a 3-1 is +3, etc).
To summarize quickly:
Mono-Red (14%)
Melira Pod (12%)
Affinity (9%)
Splinter Twin (9%)
UR Tempo Variants (7%)
UWR Tempo Variants (6%)
Scapeshift (4%)
Merfolk (4%)
Storm (3%)
Bogles (3%)
GR Tron (3%)
Other (26%)
Others include (in order): Amulet Combo, GR Summoning Trap/Through the Breach, UW Tron, RUG Tempo, a slew of Vial decks, Jund, WB Death's Shadow, and so on.
Mono-Red has always been popular online, but has really taken off with the printing of Eidolon.
My main point is that for traditional Tezzerator, I don't love this meta. I don't like playing against the UR and UWR tempo decks that much, and not a ton of the meta is fair creature decks or weak to Blood Moon. I have also been running into the Wafo Tapa Esper list a lot, which is a really bad matchup, despite them being weak to Blood Moon.
I would be very interested in coming up with Tezzeret the Seeker lists that attempt to compete here though, whatever they may look like. I think I'd want to be closer to something like what 4thDimensionalBubble is playing - Supreme Verdict seems well positioned. I was also thinking that Gifts/Unburial Rites might be a solid SB plan - the top two decks are both weak to it, i.e. Iona on Red or Elesh Norn.
If anyone is interested in the spreadsheet with all of the numbers, etc, PM me and I'll e-mail it to you. Cheers!
Not a great matchup, though I did beat it in Round 1.
It's been about 2 months since I've played, and it shows - I made a ton of a mistake with V4 too, which is a damn shame. Also, don't play @ 3 am.
I might have also discovered a bug - during two of my games I accidentally clicked on Tezz's -X and clicked cancel, and instead of allowing me to reselect it made me search for a 0 CMC artifact.
I'd rather wait and see how the fetches shake up the format before shaking up the splash colors - after all, the entire deck (at least in the beginning - and to me) was based around creating a manabase that abused Shackles and Blood Moon at the same time. The new fetches could make Blood Moon better, who knows?
Anyway, the removal in Red just can't be beat - look at the main control deck in Modern (UWR) - it's simply hard to beat Burn when all the creatures in Modern have such low toughnesses.
The new fetches may also hurt the Blood Moon plan, ever so slightly. Now people can run the optimal mix to make fetching the right basics easier. Not a huge deal, but something to keep in mind. Their release might also encourage even more greedy mana bases, so we'll have to see how it all shakes out - what do I know?
I am still playing this deck, but it's been a while since I've had the chance to log on to MODO. Will keep everyone updated with the list I'm using. It's going to need some updates.
I'd rather have Ajani Vengeant if you're looking to find a way to abuse The Chain Veil and win behind Ensnaring Bridge. I might also prefer Karn - he's colorless, has the strongest abilities, etc...but he costs a ton, and I hate to see him in my opener. Given that most lists only play 24 lands, I'd also like a few ramp rocks like Signets or Coalition Relic if I were to try Karn - I know ContraEgo was going this direction for a while.
I just don't love that Keranos costs five and doesn't really do much otherwise.
I have probably played Twin a dozen times or so in the last year, and I probably score around 50%, though this is just off the top of my head, and with varying MD and SB configurations. I just had a match where this exact scenario happened Game 1, and indeed I lost. The main thing to remember here is that in order to win with the Turn 3 Exarch into Turn 4 Twin, they have to draw both copies by Turn 4. I'd estimate that this happens about 20% of the time at best, and then they have to go for it into your open mana, and we have to have done nothing so far - no Needle on Exarch and no Spellskite. And if you're on the play instead of the draw, that opens more outs and opportunities. As the game goes longer, more and more things open up for you. You dig into more Spellskites and Needles, Shackles comes online, and even dwindling down your cards and relying on Bridge is possible.
Games 2 and 3 are more interesting - my current configuration has Torpor Orbs, Defense Grids, a Grafdigger's Cage coming in along with a Welding Jar for their 2-3 Ancient Grudges. Obviously Shatterstorm would be a lot worse, but this is less common. I think the matchup is really complicated and interesting, but I'm not sure it's unfavorable.
Affinity is another interesting matchup - in recent times I've scored 1/3 against them, but the configuration I posted above is less favorable for us. I also made a mistake with Pithing Needles, tossing one match for no reason. Pithing Needle, Spell Snare, Pyroclasm, Engineered Explosives, and the other burn spells are obviously our best weapons. If you're having trouble with Affinity, I'd recommend making sure you have the full four sweepers post-board, and probably 3 Needles.
FWIW, the hard lock against Affinity is basically Needles on Plating and Ravager, Ensnaring Bridge, and no cards in hand. There are obviously other ways to win, but that's the most basic configuration. Most of their cards are really bad Magic cards, so it's important to focus on shutting down the good ones. Needles are the main way, but Burn spells against Overseer and things like Signal Pest help a lot. Blood Moon can shut down the manlands and screw up their mana pretty bad as well. If I'm not taking too much damage, I will almost always hold up Spell Snare until Needles are online. The cost of getting hit with a Plating is just too high.
I lost Round 1 on time (my girlfriend called me) vs. Blue Moon, which will take forever to play out either way anyway. This is the first time I've played the deck - I'm not sure who's favored. Game 1 I won fairly easily despite thinking it was Splinter Twin and putting two Needles on Exarch and Kiki. Eventually ran him out of Cryptics, played a Chalice on 2 to stop his counters and Snapcaster, and ran out a Tezzeret and killed him with the ultimate. Round 2 I eventually died behind a swath of Snapcasters and a Batterskull. I lost on time in Game 3, though I think I was holding up fine.
Round 2 I played against MadKat, who's been running this list quite a bit:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29419_Daily-Digest-You-Gotta-Pay-The-Toll.html
His clock was somehow slower than ours, and after I showed him Ruins + Explosives in Game 1, he conceeded the match. Not sure it's THAT easy, but it seems reasonable nonetheless. Blood Moon in games 2 & 3 seems very good. Nice guy though.
Round 3 I beat Burn, and actually conceded Game 1 incorrectly when I thought I was lost but wasn't. I won games 2 and 3 on the back of Leyline, Chalice on 2, Bridge, and finally Trading Post, which is close to unbeatable.
Round 4 I lost 1-2 to Ad Nauseum. I won Game 1 by Trinket Maging for Pithing Needle (to name Lightning Storm - if you're not familiar with this one remember it!). He had to Pact it and upkeep Angel's Grace to not lose, and when I cast the second Trinket Mage for the second Needle, he had to Peer Through Depths to find a second Pact, and Angel's Graced again. He had lost so much time and cards by this point that I had enough time to beat him into a negative life total and up to 10 poison counters (Phyrexian Unlife) with the two Trinket Mages. Game 2, if I remember, I had Leyline, but he managed to go off Turn 3 with a Lotus Bloom and Echoing Truth it. I couldn't interact favorably in any other way in time. Game 3 I assembled Leyline, Spellskite, and Needle on Lightning Storm, but again he was able to draw his whole deck and cast Angel's Grace, Patrician's Scorn, Hurkyl's Recall, and then Lightning Storm despite all of this. Not sure what else I could have done. Blood Moon instead of any one of those 3 permanents might have sealed the deal, I dunno.
Interesting DE nonetheless, and I'll be sure to change it up a bit and run it through a few more. I'm interested to see how we do against the Glitter Storm/Ascendancy deck that's so popular nowadays.
Also, I might be streaming some of this soon for fun, mostly because a friend likes to watch and play along. If anyone is interested, I'll post here when I start up on Twitch.
I agree with this completely.
Ceddy is a better player than me for sure, but this has to be my favorite match I've ever played - he's a great entertainer. He thought I was getting Shackles with Tezz's -X, and his face when I get Bridge is priceless.
Eidolon of Rhetoric is an interesting idea nonetheless!
A few questions to those on his Wg list:
1. Do you bring in Kor Firewalkers against UWR Control? The lifegain isn't relevant, but dodging a ton of their removal seems interesting. I have been having a hard time in this matchup. There's so much burn, and it feels like the first time they cast Snapcaster Mage you're just way behind. I have never been able to kill them fast enough to race that first Sphinx's Rev.
2. What are you cutting in the Melira matchup for the 2 Dismembers and the 3 Crusaders? I think I cut all 3 Thalias (I wasn't sure they had enough actual spells for her to be reasonable) and 2 Flickerwisps, as both are weak to Pontiff and I thought the other cards were better.
3. Maybe this has been asked before, but thoughts on Leyline of Sanctity instead of the Firewalkers? Similarly great if not better against Burn. Worse against the UWR decks for sure, but better against Scapeshift, Storm, Ad-Nauseum, decks with heavy discard, etc. Not sure, was just considering it.
4. Thoughts on Stirring Wildwood over the Temple of Plenty?
Just as a comment from testing - Brimaz has been really good in my matches so far! His 4 toughness is super relevant.
I also can't condone zero copies of Thirst. I just can't!
To summarize quickly:
Mono-Red (14%)
Melira Pod (12%)
Affinity (9%)
Splinter Twin (9%)
UR Tempo Variants (7%)
UWR Tempo Variants (6%)
Scapeshift (4%)
Merfolk (4%)
Storm (3%)
Bogles (3%)
GR Tron (3%)
Other (26%)
Others include (in order): Amulet Combo, GR Summoning Trap/Through the Breach, UW Tron, RUG Tempo, a slew of Vial decks, Jund, WB Death's Shadow, and so on.
Mono-Red has always been popular online, but has really taken off with the printing of Eidolon.
My main point is that for traditional Tezzerator, I don't love this meta. I don't like playing against the UR and UWR tempo decks that much, and not a ton of the meta is fair creature decks or weak to Blood Moon. I have also been running into the Wafo Tapa Esper list a lot, which is a really bad matchup, despite them being weak to Blood Moon.
I would be very interested in coming up with Tezzeret the Seeker lists that attempt to compete here though, whatever they may look like. I think I'd want to be closer to something like what 4thDimensionalBubble is playing - Supreme Verdict seems well positioned. I was also thinking that Gifts/Unburial Rites might be a solid SB plan - the top two decks are both weak to it, i.e. Iona on Red or Elesh Norn.
If anyone is interested in the spreadsheet with all of the numbers, etc, PM me and I'll e-mail it to you. Cheers!
It's been about 2 months since I've played, and it shows - I made a ton of a mistake with V4 too, which is a damn shame. Also, don't play @ 3 am.
I might have also discovered a bug - during two of my games I accidentally clicked on Tezz's -X and clicked cancel, and instead of allowing me to reselect it made me search for a 0 CMC artifact.
Anyway, the removal in Red just can't be beat - look at the main control deck in Modern (UWR) - it's simply hard to beat Burn when all the creatures in Modern have such low toughnesses.
I just don't love that Keranos costs five and doesn't really do much otherwise.
I have probably played Twin a dozen times or so in the last year, and I probably score around 50%, though this is just off the top of my head, and with varying MD and SB configurations. I just had a match where this exact scenario happened Game 1, and indeed I lost. The main thing to remember here is that in order to win with the Turn 3 Exarch into Turn 4 Twin, they have to draw both copies by Turn 4. I'd estimate that this happens about 20% of the time at best, and then they have to go for it into your open mana, and we have to have done nothing so far - no Needle on Exarch and no Spellskite. And if you're on the play instead of the draw, that opens more outs and opportunities. As the game goes longer, more and more things open up for you. You dig into more Spellskites and Needles, Shackles comes online, and even dwindling down your cards and relying on Bridge is possible.
Games 2 and 3 are more interesting - my current configuration has Torpor Orbs, Defense Grids, a Grafdigger's Cage coming in along with a Welding Jar for their 2-3 Ancient Grudges. Obviously Shatterstorm would be a lot worse, but this is less common. I think the matchup is really complicated and interesting, but I'm not sure it's unfavorable.
Affinity is another interesting matchup - in recent times I've scored 1/3 against them, but the configuration I posted above is less favorable for us. I also made a mistake with Pithing Needles, tossing one match for no reason. Pithing Needle, Spell Snare, Pyroclasm, Engineered Explosives, and the other burn spells are obviously our best weapons. If you're having trouble with Affinity, I'd recommend making sure you have the full four sweepers post-board, and probably 3 Needles.
FWIW, the hard lock against Affinity is basically Needles on Plating and Ravager, Ensnaring Bridge, and no cards in hand. There are obviously other ways to win, but that's the most basic configuration. Most of their cards are really bad Magic cards, so it's important to focus on shutting down the good ones. Needles are the main way, but Burn spells against Overseer and things like Signal Pest help a lot. Blood Moon can shut down the manlands and screw up their mana pretty bad as well. If I'm not taking too much damage, I will almost always hold up Spell Snare until Needles are online. The cost of getting hit with a Plating is just too high.