complete the game objective. which is to win the game,
I don't want to be pollyanna too much here but the game objective of EDH for me is far more than to win the game. That's *an* objective. But not the objective. Lots of sub objecives
* Do my thing
* Hopefully see other people do their thing
* Chat with people
* Have a good time
Winning is fairly low on the list for me actually. I mean, I'm trying to win, but if it were the only objective I'd be doing it a lot differently and so would most people.
It is weird when someone says winning is the goal in a game with a win condition and people take that to me mean people who are playing to that don't also do everything you just listed.
Winning isn't the only objective and no one is saying that so trying to spin something into that is misleading.
When the language used says winning is THE goal, not a goal, of course it will be interpreted that everything will take a backseat to winning.
Also, winning and the other goals are often in direct conflict. Would my deck win more with armageddon? Yep. Should I put it in? For most playgroups I've seen, no.
Deck design for a casual multiplayer format has multiple targets, and it seems that most players ignore one of the most important ones. Is your deck fun to play against? Ignoring this is not unique to competitive players, but they tend to have the card pools to make the most oppressive decks. Casual players get there more gradually through arms race over months or years. There needs to be more of a focus on making decks fun to play against in casual edh deckbuilding.
Commander is only a causal format in that it is a multiplayer one, I feel that people who wave that word around as a charm against certain kinds of decks are in the wrong.
Especially when a lot of the most powerful game changing additions to ssid format come directly out of official Commander product.
Your single track definition of Armageddon is also flawed having had it cast against me and by me multiple times I can tell you that how a card is played and how the mood around a table is, often much more important than how powerful the card is.
complete the game objective. which is to win the game,
I don't want to be pollyanna too much here but the game objective of EDH for me is far more than to win the game. That's *an* objective. But not the objective. Lots of sub objecives
* Do my thing
* Hopefully see other people do their thing
* Chat with people
* Have a good time
Winning is fairly low on the list for me actually. I mean, I'm trying to win, but if it were the only objective I'd be doing it a lot differently and so would most people.
It is weird when someone says winning is the goal in a game with a win condition and people take that to me mean people who are playing to that don't also do everything you just listed.
Winning isn't the only objective and no one is saying that so trying to spin something into that is misleading.
You can't play your normal form of Control or Tempo or Aggro in this format unless you have a back door because multiplayer + 40 life facilitates the need for ways to close out a game. People have a buffer and room to breath in the format it is no wonder that style of play flourishes. Every control deck I make the last question is how do I lock the game or how do I finish it because it is the only way to be sure when building.
If you don't the game just becomes 3 hour battlecruiser fests of board resets, which I would say generally are worse.
There is another level to that though isn't there.
A commander whose whole job is to make other creatures into mana dorks has more investment than most to play the Engine.
Regardless of what or how powerful the outcomes with it are.
I bet the Reservoir likewise is good in all kinds of decks that gain life because unlike the traditional lifegain wincons you don't have to wait a turn around with it.
(I don't think it is big enough for its own thread and is about new cards changing old mechanics)
There weren't previous storm spells that are also arcane, so they're probably just an oversight. As it is, I think splice-onto-instant/sorcery would work with storm en mass.
Specifically though there are creatures that functioned that way.
While I don't agree with Paradox Engine needing to be banned (or the other two cards needing to be banned) PoK was not banned because it was "unfun by itself".
PoK and PE are very similar cards in a lot of ways it is why the comparisons kind of work. There are games I have played against both of these cards and they have floundered and done little because they are both engines surrounded by bigger things.
The ease of accessing the power of those engines is what is being discussed here.
(also framing the differences between cEDH and not as purely a function of budget removes a lot of the history of MTG cards, it is how people build and play and not what they build and play that determines the style of deck)
If I was to put together a 2 color deck right now my land base would be.
Command Tower
ABUR (if one of the ones I have)
8 Fetch Lands (7 Fetches at least 1 color, Prismatic Vista)
1 Shock Land
Allied Fetchable Lands if Allied Pair
On color Horizon Canopy Lands
Perhaps a Mystic Gate or similar
Maybe a Temple
A couple deck specific utility lands maybe
City of Brass, Mana Confluence
Basics
It should be noted that any data for or against what you believe in a thread like this taken from a website is taken from a self selected smaller much more into the game group of people who decide they want to put their list of cards online and think about the game beyond when the game ends or when the store is left.
There is a huge bias in that data or any data of the sort.
Commander is only a causal format in that it is a multiplayer one, I feel that people who wave that word around as a charm against certain kinds of decks are in the wrong.
Especially when a lot of the most powerful game changing additions to ssid format come directly out of official Commander product.
Your single track definition of Armageddon is also flawed having had it cast against me and by me multiple times I can tell you that how a card is played and how the mood around a table is, often much more important than how powerful the card is.
It is weird when someone says winning is the goal in a game with a win condition and people take that to me mean people who are playing to that don't also do everything you just listed.
Winning isn't the only objective and no one is saying that so trying to spin something into that is misleading.
If you don't the game just becomes 3 hour battlecruiser fests of board resets, which I would say generally are worse.
This is where I am with the game.
A commander whose whole job is to make other creatures into mana dorks has more investment than most to play the Engine.
Regardless of what or how powerful the outcomes with it are.
I bet the Reservoir likewise is good in all kinds of decks that gain life because unlike the traditional lifegain wincons you don't have to wait a turn around with it.
https://twitter.com/EliShffrn/status/1131688437109600256
Specifically though there are creatures that functioned that way.
PoK and PE are very similar cards in a lot of ways it is why the comparisons kind of work. There are games I have played against both of these cards and they have floundered and done little because they are both engines surrounded by bigger things.
The ease of accessing the power of those engines is what is being discussed here.
(also framing the differences between cEDH and not as purely a function of budget removes a lot of the history of MTG cards, it is how people build and play and not what they build and play that determines the style of deck)
Splice just doesn't work like it did before after MH1 so if you are being sneaky with those cards I would advise you to reevaluate
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/811850-splice-and-storm
(I don't think it is big enough for its own thread and is about new cards changing old mechanics)
Interesting.
Command Tower
ABUR (if one of the ones I have)
8 Fetch Lands (7 Fetches at least 1 color, Prismatic Vista)
1 Shock Land
Allied Fetchable Lands if Allied Pair
On color Horizon Canopy Lands
Perhaps a Mystic Gate or similar
Maybe a Temple
A couple deck specific utility lands maybe
City of Brass, Mana Confluence
Basics
There is a huge bias in that data or any data of the sort.
Rituals are all +1 mana with commander out which I have a feeling with smooth things out considerably if it works.
1x Kykar, Wind's Fury
Instant (29)
1x Abeyance
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Desperate Ritual
1x Dig Through Time
1x Echoing Truth
1x Electrodominance
1x Expansion / Explosion
1x Flusterstorm
1x Force of Negation
1x Force of Will
1x Frantic Search
1x Gush
1x Impulse
1x Intuition
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Mana Drain
1x Mental Misstep
1x Mission Briefing
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Orim's Chant
1x Path to Exile
1x Pull from Eternity
1x Pyretic Ritual
1x Reiterate
1x Remand
1x Seething Song
1x Silence
1x Teferi's Protection
1x Turnabout
Creature (6)
1x Baral, Chief of Compliance
1x Dreadhorde Arcanist
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Soulfire Grand Master
1x Spellseeker
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Cascade Bluffs
1x Cavern of Souls
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Fiery Islet
1x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mystic Gate
1x Plateau
1x Polluted Delta
1x Prismatic Vista
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Scalding Tarn
5x Snow-Covered Island
1x Snow-Covered Mountain
1x Snow-Covered Plains
1x Steam Vents
1x Volcanic Island
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
Artifact (10)
1x Chrome Mox
1x Defense Grid
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Memory Jar
1x Mox Diamond
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Bonus Round
1x By Force
1x Careful Study
1x Echo of Eons
1x Faithless Looting
1x Fiery Confluence
1x Finale of Promise
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Mizzix's Mastery
1x Past in Flames
1x Personal Tutor
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Rite of Flame
1x Serum Visions
1x Show and Tell
1x Time Spiral
1x Treasure Cruise
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Windfall
Planeswalker (2)
1x Narset, Parter of Veils
1x Teferi, Time Raveler
Enchantment (1)
1x Thousand-Year Storm
The interaction between Echo of Eons and Pull from Eternity is very cute especially where Echo is the cheapest to cast from.