MTG Salvation

Quote from Madding

Using bad cards to make a card playable means that the card in question must also be bad.

bad card + bad card = bad combo? Look at mindcrank + bloodchief ascension. Neither were great cards on their own, but they made a pretty good infinite combo.

Besides, there's better cards than swiftfoot boots; spellskite and any blue counter magic to name a few.

Having to support a card with another does seem kind of costly, but apparently it's worth it in some cases.

Also, who says swiftfoot boots is bad? I'd rather have one of these as my uncommon than a ****ty life-gain artifact.

Quote from Madding

Right, sometimes you want to cast Ponder, but you almost never want to cast Preordain.

So Ponder wins, but the real answer is that maybe you should have mulliganed if you are digging turn one.

If I see a hand that isn't too great, but has ponder and an island in, I'd rather take that than go down to six cards in most cases.

Quote from Dan.f

Also, anything that costs more than 4 mana is not usually needed in multiples.

With the exception of titans or other good beaters.

I think ponder is better early game because it allows you to see into your deck one card more, allowing you to either arrange the cards for a setup, or shuffle and chance it, which is okay early game.

Preordain is better late game when you don't really shuffle much anymore anyway (since most decks have cards that make you shuffle earlier on in the game) and you basically need a card or you don't.

I've seen a deck with treasure mage/quicksilver amulet/artifact creatures that worked okay. You can use treasure mage to take out cards like wurmcoil, blightsteel colossus, etc. and play them on the next turn with quicksilver. It was still kind of slow, though.

Quote from Control_Freak

The game is not that expensive. Don't see why people be cryin.

I seriously hope you're trolling, and I'll assume you are considering your avatar.

Quote from mistermoo33

Just some food for thought: part of the reason Leatherback Baloth and Terra Stomper were not played was because JTMS made ETB effects far more important than non-hasty efficiency.

However, I still think this card is not that great. I mean assuming you cast it on turn 3 and swing with it twice (they're probably have an answer after 3 turns), you'll have done 6 blockable damage, which you could have accomplished with a Centaur Courser.

If you let it sit out for three turns, it will be significantly more difficult to take care of assuming it's gained some protection by the time it was played. By this point, dismember and almost all red removal is not useful anymore. Like I mentioned earlier, swiftfoot boots and spellskite, if you didn't counter those already will make it untouchable for at least a turn, and a whole turn at this point again makes it significantly more dangerous because by then it could be an 8/8+. If you let it become this nasty by then (which you really shouldn't), the best way to counter it would be by deathtouch, so wurmcoil or acidic slime (the slime get's rid of the spellskite or boots). This is why I employed frost titan in the deck I made for this card, so I can tap down these threats when they come out.

But even without protection, a lot can happen in three turns that may make it just as difficult, or possibly even just as simple to deal with. If you really don't have a normal removal card by then, you probably aren't running a good standard deck, but even if you are, that doesn't mean you won't have to worry about other threats, and nobody in this thread has seemed to even mention counter magic, even though mana leak, negate, and other common blue counter spells are one of the primary reasons people use blue.

Though my opinion and experience would probably hardly count to most people here, I find it works well in a deck with spellskite, swiftboots, counter magic (mana leak/negate), and frost titan. It actually works considerably well against valakut and regular zendikar rug. Artifact removal would then be the problem though. Acidic slime would completely neuter a hydra w/ swiftboots.

I think people should also remember a lot of cards are rotating out in october, and therefore the metagame will undoubtedly change a lot. Whether or not it will make this card good or not, I don't know, but zendikar is really important to a lot of decks right now, and all those decks will have to change considerably in a few months.

If anybody wants to try the deck I'm using, I'll post it. Everybody is talking about testing it but it doesn't look like anyone is besides myself.

Alright, I've play-tested this deck and made quite a few changes (which I've edited in the OP).

The problem i'm having with this deck is that it's too slow, the bit of mana ramp in there just isn't nearly as good as the zendikar lotus cobra/explore/fetch land combo, so this deck is still looking at some major reconstruction to get quicker set up, but I don't really know where to start. I don't want to use llanowar elves, and all the other cards i've looked through in m12 and the scars of mirrodin block and can't seem to find anything to help make this deck quicker. Anybody have any ideas?

Also, the land for this deck is still kind of an issue. The fetch lands were a god send for dual G/U, but with those gone, I'm not really sure what to do besides use basic lands. Also, having 2 different kinds of the same dual land (G/R) seems kind of redundant, and with tec edge running left and right, I think I might just stick to either one or the other (most likely the rootbound crag). But I'm still looking for suggestions for land.

Hi, I'm new here and this is my first post so let me know if this is the wrong place.

I'm relatively new to mtg (started back in february or march), this is the first competitive deck I've put together (and by put together, I mean, I have most of the cards). This deck is for post rotation in October, when the zendikar block is out of standard. I've marked in parenthesis the cards that I will be using until they are illegal.




Like I said, I'm relatively new. I put this deck together mostly by looking at other decks and seeing what M12 was bringing in and what was going out.

Since Lotus Cobra is going out, I replaced it with birds of paradise, I thought this would be pretty obvious change to most RUG decks for post rotation. Acidic slime is one of my favorite cards, so I put four in the deck. A turn 3 slime I've found is seriously detrimental to an opponent's land set up. In a mirror, or against other ramp decks, this strategy may not be as viable. Otherwise, for late game, it's best used as artifact hate obviously. The other 4 creatures are the beaters obviously, and the swiftfoot boots are there to support them.

Unfortunately, harrow, explore, and cultivate are all going out leaving rampant growth as the only simple green ramp card (as far as I know). Ponder is very important to this deck as it makes sure I get both mana leaks and rampant growths early game. It is also useful late game for card draw.

I'm not entirely sure what to do exactly with planeswalkers. The new garruk has great card draw which is severely needed for this deck, but I'm not sure if the new jace is going to prove useful for this deck. However, Garruk wildspeaker and jace beleren seem to be a pretty good combo until the rotation. Jace beleren has the card draw and Garruk is helpful for mana and putting out creatures, but this will have to change after the rotation.

As for land, since I'm not very experienced and I was wondering what I should use and what kind of balance I should have. Obviously copperline, but I don't know what else. I have almost no dual land as of now, which will probably the most difficult aspect (whether by trading or by buying) of putting this deck together.

I didn't put in the sideboard yet, but it will most likely consist of combust (will this still be legal after the rotation?), negate, flashfreeze, and cudgel trolls to change out the slimes if I need to.


Let me know what changes I should make/consider, or any other suggestions.