1 Foil Arid Mesa and 1 Foil Verdant Catacombs to finish off my playsets of foil zen-fetches, and then probably pick up a couple shocks to throw into the trade binder
I have been unable to update my trading post for the last several days. I am able to begin editing the post, but when I click the Submit button to finalize them, it takes a minute to load before giving me an error message saying "Sorry, an error occurred while processing your request. " I've tried on several different devices, but have not been able to edit my list at all.
This debate started when a user, who had never seen the list Finkel was playing, had his mind set on playing it.. without even seeing the deck.. or having any idea at all what changes were made yet. He had no idea what it was he wanted to play. All the info he had, was that Finkel was winning, and it was storm. To me that seems like netdecking. I called it out and you came to his defense. Which also sparked you to flame my deck.
Why does it matter if some player decided to netdeck the list, and why are you "calling out" inexperienced storm players for wanting to start with a pro's list? While I do not believe that players should blindly netdeck a pro's list, my opinion against that is based on my belief that any changes to the list should be made based on a player's experience and understanding of the deck, and I do not believe that a person new to the archetype is going to have the knowledge to make positive changes to the deck without first starting with a basic frame, in this case the latest PT/GP decklists. Everyone needs to start somewhere, and if we call out new players for starting with Finkel's list, all we will be doing is alienating them from playing the deck entirely, or creating an argument that will inevitably devolve into a series of personal attacks like we have seen in this thread many many times. That is not constructive. When you see someone new to the deck, help that person. Give him advice on how to play the deck better, and let his personal experiences with the deck guide his future decklist changes.
As for Gifts Ungiven, I am still in love with the card, but I don't believe that it is worth building the entire deck around, and I certainly don't believe its worth making the deck a full turn or two slower. I view gifts as a tutor, a way to set up a guaranteed loop that ensures victory, be it tutoring for cards to activate ascension or to tutor up and set up Past in Flames. This is the list I am currently playing:
As you can see, I cut down to 1 Gifts. I originally had 3, but the card is quite slow, and as izzetmage has pointed out, it doesn't win the game on its own. It is a card that wants to be cast mid-combo, and when you do, you find yourself with that guaranteed loop we both love so much. I am probably going to cut the 4th Electromancer as it rarely does anything for me (one of the benefits of only owning 3 foil Electromancers is that you always know which one is the 4th) in favor of another Shivan Reef, and I am still on the fence about the bolts and ravings. Bolt is very nice at dealing with opposing problem creatures, but I do find myself pitching it to Lootings more often than not, so Im not entirely sure if I want to continue having 2 in the main. Desperate Ravings, I just cant make up my mind about. The card advantage is nice, but I find myself discarding key cards a large amount of the time, and I always want to have a Looting immediately afterwards to clear out the jank that lady luck didn't want me to discard. I think im going to test it some more, but am probably going to cut the bolts and Ravings for another Looting and 3 Peer Through Depths
You mean healthy for your storm deck. I love how people try to mask their selfish reasons "this card hoses my pet deck" as "this card is unhealth for the meta".
No, I mean healthy for the metagame, because every complaint about jund or it's sister junk being "oppressive" is a direct result of Deathrite. Deathrite is the card that pushed Jund from being a solid deck to the lofty success it has had since RtR. In one card, wizards was able to cure Jund of most of its weaknesses, in fact reaching a level of dominance it couldn't reach even when it had access to both BBE and Punishing fire. No, it does not break the turn 4 rule, and I agree that Ooze is better at hating in GY's, but our entire GBx-led metagame is a direct result of DRS.
And yes, I play storm. Not only do I play it, but I am heavily invested in it, as I have the deck foiled out, and it is very close to my heart. But the same can also be said about Zoo, GW hatebears (which I played during last seasons ptqs), and a 4-deathrite loam list, none of which have issues with DRS. My reasoning behind my desire to ban deathrite was based entirely on my observations of the format, and I would appreciate it if we refrain from attacking people for playing storm.
So, just to confirm, the announcement goes up at midnight tomorrow, right? I honestly can barely even stand to wait. It's like christmas...except not fun.
I swear to god if DRS gets banned and I have to get a new deck before GP richmond, I'm gonna be upset. It'll be the second time I've had to change decks.
I've had to switch decks 4 times due to bannings, and I have to say it doesn't get any easier. First I had elves with glimpse, then storm with rite, then zoo with nacatl, and then storm again with song. I still play storm, but its just not the same.
That being said, I really do hope deathrite gets axed. I don't think its been a healthy addition to the metagame or magic as a whole.
EDIT: As for the Serum Visions debate, the card is bad. Its usually the worst card in whatever deck its being used in. I miss preordain...
Because it would manly serve combo and control, and since the format is slower than legacy, it's just a slightly delayed ancestral recall which makes combo/control insanely consistent (especially combo), because it will almost certainly come through if you can suspend it on turn one. I think it is very unlikely (at this point in time) they will unban it. They did not ban Preordain and Ponder to unban an arguably more powerful card shortly after.
What combo decks are you referring to here, and how is making them more consistent on turn 5+ a problem? The only combos where it could potentially fit in are the ones that can play a longer game, such as Twin or Scapeshift, and I doubt giving either of them access to a card that could draw them 3 cards 4 turns later is going to make either oppressively good.
EDIT: It appears to be working again
Why does it matter if some player decided to netdeck the list, and why are you "calling out" inexperienced storm players for wanting to start with a pro's list? While I do not believe that players should blindly netdeck a pro's list, my opinion against that is based on my belief that any changes to the list should be made based on a player's experience and understanding of the deck, and I do not believe that a person new to the archetype is going to have the knowledge to make positive changes to the deck without first starting with a basic frame, in this case the latest PT/GP decklists. Everyone needs to start somewhere, and if we call out new players for starting with Finkel's list, all we will be doing is alienating them from playing the deck entirely, or creating an argument that will inevitably devolve into a series of personal attacks like we have seen in this thread many many times. That is not constructive. When you see someone new to the deck, help that person. Give him advice on how to play the deck better, and let his personal experiences with the deck guide his future decklist changes.
As for Gifts Ungiven, I am still in love with the card, but I don't believe that it is worth building the entire deck around, and I certainly don't believe its worth making the deck a full turn or two slower. I view gifts as a tutor, a way to set up a guaranteed loop that ensures victory, be it tutoring for cards to activate ascension or to tutor up and set up Past in Flames. This is the list I am currently playing:
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Shivan Reef
3 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Goblin Electromancer
Enchantments (4)
4 Pyromancer Ascension
Instants (17)
2 Desperate Ravings
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Gifts Ungiven
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Manamorphose
4 Pyretic Ritual
2 Faithless Looting
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Grapeshot
2 Past in Flames
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
As you can see, I cut down to 1 Gifts. I originally had 3, but the card is quite slow, and as izzetmage has pointed out, it doesn't win the game on its own. It is a card that wants to be cast mid-combo, and when you do, you find yourself with that guaranteed loop we both love so much. I am probably going to cut the 4th Electromancer as it rarely does anything for me (one of the benefits of only owning 3 foil Electromancers is that you always know which one is the 4th) in favor of another Shivan Reef, and I am still on the fence about the bolts and ravings. Bolt is very nice at dealing with opposing problem creatures, but I do find myself pitching it to Lootings more often than not, so Im not entirely sure if I want to continue having 2 in the main. Desperate Ravings, I just cant make up my mind about. The card advantage is nice, but I find myself discarding key cards a large amount of the time, and I always want to have a Looting immediately afterwards to clear out the jank that lady luck didn't want me to discard. I think im going to test it some more, but am probably going to cut the bolts and Ravings for another Looting and 3 Peer Through Depths
No, I mean healthy for the metagame, because every complaint about jund or it's sister junk being "oppressive" is a direct result of Deathrite. Deathrite is the card that pushed Jund from being a solid deck to the lofty success it has had since RtR. In one card, wizards was able to cure Jund of most of its weaknesses, in fact reaching a level of dominance it couldn't reach even when it had access to both BBE and Punishing fire. No, it does not break the turn 4 rule, and I agree that Ooze is better at hating in GY's, but our entire GBx-led metagame is a direct result of DRS.
And yes, I play storm. Not only do I play it, but I am heavily invested in it, as I have the deck foiled out, and it is very close to my heart. But the same can also be said about Zoo, GW hatebears (which I played during last seasons ptqs), and a 4-deathrite loam list, none of which have issues with DRS. My reasoning behind my desire to ban deathrite was based entirely on my observations of the format, and I would appreciate it if we refrain from attacking people for playing storm.
Technically it was three decks, one just happened to get hit with 4 banhammers over 2 announcements.
Sorry deathrite players, but that card has got to get got.
I've had to switch decks 4 times due to bannings, and I have to say it doesn't get any easier. First I had elves with glimpse, then storm with rite, then zoo with nacatl, and then storm again with song. I still play storm, but its just not the same.
That being said, I really do hope deathrite gets axed. I don't think its been a healthy addition to the metagame or magic as a whole.
EDIT: As for the Serum Visions debate, the card is bad. Its usually the worst card in whatever deck its being used in. I miss preordain...
What combo decks are you referring to here, and how is making them more consistent on turn 5+ a problem? The only combos where it could potentially fit in are the ones that can play a longer game, such as Twin or Scapeshift, and I doubt giving either of them access to a card that could draw them 3 cards 4 turns later is going to make either oppressively good.
He beat me 2-1.
Also since I cant seem to get a close up view of a confirmed fake dual, does anyone know how to spot fakes of the older cards like Revised Duals?
I won 2-1