Didnt see anything too nutzo. I'll make a list later, but I highly suspect that Moderns gone the way of legacy more and more each set. That is to say there will be less and less "playable cards"
Im actually very cool with this. Not every set needs a Deathrite Shaman or Delver of Secrets or Snapcaster Mage to drastically change the format. This isnt standard. If we only get a few modern role players and 1-2 big additions to the format each block I will consider that block a major success.
Getting to top 8s or better in large tournaments such as the starcity open is bad? And happening in dozens and dozens of major tournaments in the past few years is uncommon?
People wouldn't even be committing slots to it in major tournaments if it wasn't worth it. But it's winning plenty of games for them.
Dozens and dozens? According to Mtgtop8.com, there have been 7 T8's featuring Dark Depths in SCG Legacy Opens dating back to 2009, and another 7 t8s in what appear to be European equivalents, also dating back to 2009. 14 T8's over 4 years is uncommon, saying otherwise is simply ignoring the facts.
I'm not saying you're wrong about Ravings/Peer/See beyond/ etc. All i'm saying is arguing on the basis of "What the pros are playing" is an extremely weak and close minded argument.
Close minded yes, weak no. Blindly defending the latest Finkel version as optimal without consideration of other configurations is unproductive and close minded, but its no worse than someone playing a different configuration for the sake of being different. Until a new configuration puts up solid results somewhere credible, the latest "pro" version is going to be the stock list for the deck, and any changes to it must be made for some constructive purpose, such as improving a certain matchup or trying to make the deck faster. Any other changes to the deck without that goal in mind is counterproductive.
I am going to preface this by saying that I would LOVE to see Dread Return unbanned, though i doubt it will ever happen, but Extended Dredge put 2 players into the top 8 of PT Austin without LED, Putrid Imp, Ichorid or Breakthrough.
Maybe I should have been a little bit more clear on that. It's possible to trade 4 $5 for a $20. Possible. Even that is not likely most of the time but it is most likely then trading $5 cards towards a $100 card.
I rarely find people today who will do 5 $1 cards for a $5 card. Even if they don't have those cards and want them. I constantly hear the low balling crap about them losing in the value during the trade. Either you want the cards or you don't. I've had people come back to me angry and even one time bring one of their friends with them demanding the cards back or else they weren't going to let me leave the building. They obviously didn't get their cards back at all. The trade was fair. I think it was 5 $2 cards for 1 $10 card.
That's the mentality I've had to deal with lately. I've mostly turned to online trading if I really want something or just flat out buying it online. So even cards are in peoples trade binders that doesn't mean they are available for trade. Nor does that means trades can be make at all with them. There is this constant glut of value talk, and how they are losing out........but they are getting cards they want.......it makes no sense. I've had to put trading rules at the front of my binder and tell people to read them before they look. These problem guys are also generally the guys who are nice to you until you beat them in a game.
That's were the main issue is, people taking the game too seriously. Constantly wanting to drive prices of cards ever higher.
Based on recent ebay auctions that actually sold, the current price of goyf on the second-hand market is ~$115-125. Certain online retailers offer $97.50 in trade for NM Future Sight goyfs, and with inventories available that put all of our binders to shame. It sees play in many decks in both this format and Legacy, and it will always be strongly considered in any deck playing green in both of those formats.
Now compare that to the pile of $5 and $1 cards that you would offer for that Goyf. What do they go for on ebay? How much can you buylist them for? How many decks do they see play in, and do they see any play in other formats?
Those are the questions the owner of a goyf will ask himself when looking through your binder, and if he cant find a valid reason from those questions, he has no incentive to make the deal and will turn you down.
If you want to trade for a goyf, you are going to have to earn it. 15 Lotus Blooms is not enough to give a goyf for, nor are 100 Giant Adephages. You are going to have to give up a mix of $20+ cards to get there, or otherwise be willing to give up some value to make up for the price differences. 15 Blooms might not get there, but 20 might.
Like bocephus said, trading is a skill. You have to know how to stage a deal so that all people involved feel comfortable with the outcome while still ensuring that you get what you want.
I have seen more goyfs in trade binders this last few months since MM release, then I have since the inception of Modern. I dont know if this is because guys that already had their play set are trying to get value out of them or its players just trying to get top dollar cards for other decks. Same could be said for Bob also.
I'm in this boat myself. I already have playsets of goyfs and bobs, so my extras are going straight into my trade binder.
I played few times with and against this deck and I don't understand how it can win without its graveyard (besides empy the warren and swat). I am asking this because as soon as Tron has Relicm it seems impossible to win...
Relic of Progenitus does not stop Pyromancer Ascension from triggering, so unless they are able to correctly predict what cards to exile, we can just use our cantrips to get ascension active and go from there
Step 1: Fill my binder with all the hot standard cards that dont see play in other formats. These cards are going to plummet in value eventually, better trade them to someone who will actually use them than let them depreciate in my binders.
Step 2: Add my extra copies of Modern/Legacy staples that I already own playsets of. Its not every day that you see a binder with Dark Confidants and Cryptic Commands readily available, and I like being that guy who has the cards people want.
Step 3: Finish filling the binder with EDH/Casual cards that i have absolutely no need for.
Step 4: Find a trade partner.
Step 5: Browse his binder while he decides what hes interested in. Let him pick anything he wants.
Step 6: Find the most expensive foils possible, making sure that the dollar values are as close to even as possible.
Step 7: Enjoy my new foil hotness.
This process lets me upgrade my non-foil stock into foil hotness, as well as let me gain value in the long-term while simultaneously making a fair deal in the short-term
Mandatory triggers are mandatory, game play should be undone if it is reasonably possible to get back to where the trigger was missed. If it is not reasonably possible, gameplay should just continue. I highly doubt anyone would cheat and try to use this to their advantage, and I don't see reason to punish players for forgetfulness in a free online event that at it's core is simply meant to bring the community here closer together.
Current Competitive REL enforcement rules state that if you miss a beneficial mandatory trigger, its treated as though it were optional.
An example of this was during the last PTQ season, I saw a player attack with emrakul without declaring the Annihilator trigger. He moved to blockers and then to damage, and only then remembered. The judge informed him that it was competitive REL, so he had to settle for 15 damage instead
Not to say that I agree with it, but there is a history of preemptively banning cards in formats. Fluctuator and Recurring Nightmare were both banned in Standard at the same time as Time Spiral because they believed that those two decks would become the top 2 archetypes in the new standard. Also Mind's Desire was banned in Legacy and restricted in vintage less than a month after its printing, before it ever had a chance to do anything in those formats.
It's posts like these that adhere to the bad reputation this community shows.
This is a tremendous lack of knowledge, let's just put this in simple terms.
If you simply attack once and connect with Jitte; it's really hard to lose.
Look at the impact the card has on Legacy, it's alongside batterskull with every stoneforge package. If the deck has Tundra, it has a 100% chance of running Jitte.
What does that say? In a format filled with combo, this deck can add two "shocks" for each combat phase, against aggro, it can provide removal, against burn based decks, it can provide lifegain. I don't exactly understand how this high level of neglect works with Jitte. Jitte is worse than liliana of the veil, and people on this very thread are crying about that card existing.
Yes it needs to connect, yes you only get two counters, and yes its legendary. That doesn't mean its dramatically undercosted with a ridiculous amount of utility.
I can count on my hand the amount of times I've played a Jitte, connected and lost in standard during that era. It's very rare, it doesn't matter who you play against.
I played 2 Extended seasons with at least 3 jittes in my 75, one of which in a deck playing 4 Stoneforges, so yes, i am fully aware of how good jitte is.
What i dont believe however is that its as format warping as many people here think it is. It is not going to be a 4 of in every creature deck. More likely it would become a sideboard card, much like batterskull is now, except more widely played (not exactly hard to do) because of its cmc.
Im not saying it should get unbanned, i honestly dont care. I just wanted to point out that people are exaggerating a bit when they mention the effect jitte would have on the format
Im actually very cool with this. Not every set needs a Deathrite Shaman or Delver of Secrets or Snapcaster Mage to drastically change the format. This isnt standard. If we only get a few modern role players and 1-2 big additions to the format each block I will consider that block a major success.
Dozens and dozens? According to Mtgtop8.com, there have been 7 T8's featuring Dark Depths in SCG Legacy Opens dating back to 2009, and another 7 t8s in what appear to be European equivalents, also dating back to 2009. 14 T8's over 4 years is uncommon, saying otherwise is simply ignoring the facts.
Close minded yes, weak no. Blindly defending the latest Finkel version as optimal without consideration of other configurations is unproductive and close minded, but its no worse than someone playing a different configuration for the sake of being different. Until a new configuration puts up solid results somewhere credible, the latest "pro" version is going to be the stock list for the deck, and any changes to it must be made for some constructive purpose, such as improving a certain matchup or trying to make the deck faster. Any other changes to the deck without that goal in mind is counterproductive.
By "black decks" what exactly do you mean, because Jund and Junk dont play Urborg, and in the rare cases when they do, its only as a singleton.
Based on recent ebay auctions that actually sold, the current price of goyf on the second-hand market is ~$115-125. Certain online retailers offer $97.50 in trade for NM Future Sight goyfs, and with inventories available that put all of our binders to shame. It sees play in many decks in both this format and Legacy, and it will always be strongly considered in any deck playing green in both of those formats.
Now compare that to the pile of $5 and $1 cards that you would offer for that Goyf. What do they go for on ebay? How much can you buylist them for? How many decks do they see play in, and do they see any play in other formats?
Those are the questions the owner of a goyf will ask himself when looking through your binder, and if he cant find a valid reason from those questions, he has no incentive to make the deal and will turn you down.
If you want to trade for a goyf, you are going to have to earn it. 15 Lotus Blooms is not enough to give a goyf for, nor are 100 Giant Adephages. You are going to have to give up a mix of $20+ cards to get there, or otherwise be willing to give up some value to make up for the price differences. 15 Blooms might not get there, but 20 might.
Like bocephus said, trading is a skill. You have to know how to stage a deal so that all people involved feel comfortable with the outcome while still ensuring that you get what you want.
I'm in this boat myself. I already have playsets of goyfs and bobs, so my extras are going straight into my trade binder.
Relic of Progenitus does not stop Pyromancer Ascension from triggering, so unless they are able to correctly predict what cards to exile, we can just use our cantrips to get ascension active and go from there
Maindeck:
Sideboard:
Now to finish the sb...
All foil, oldest possible foil printing.
Now to finish the sb...
Step 2: Add my extra copies of Modern/Legacy staples that I already own playsets of. Its not every day that you see a binder with Dark Confidants and Cryptic Commands readily available, and I like being that guy who has the cards people want.
Step 3: Finish filling the binder with EDH/Casual cards that i have absolutely no need for.
Step 4: Find a trade partner.
Step 5: Browse his binder while he decides what hes interested in. Let him pick anything he wants.
Step 6: Find the most expensive foils possible, making sure that the dollar values are as close to even as possible.
Step 7: Enjoy my new foil hotness.
This process lets me upgrade my non-foil stock into foil hotness, as well as let me gain value in the long-term while simultaneously making a fair deal in the short-term
Current Competitive REL enforcement rules state that if you miss a beneficial mandatory trigger, its treated as though it were optional.
An example of this was during the last PTQ season, I saw a player attack with emrakul without declaring the Annihilator trigger. He moved to blockers and then to damage, and only then remembered. The judge informed him that it was competitive REL, so he had to settle for 15 damage instead
I played 2 Extended seasons with at least 3 jittes in my 75, one of which in a deck playing 4 Stoneforges, so yes, i am fully aware of how good jitte is.
What i dont believe however is that its as format warping as many people here think it is. It is not going to be a 4 of in every creature deck. More likely it would become a sideboard card, much like batterskull is now, except more widely played (not exactly hard to do) because of its cmc.
Im not saying it should get unbanned, i honestly dont care. I just wanted to point out that people are exaggerating a bit when they mention the effect jitte would have on the format