Because people who play 5 color decks generally use ALL non-basics and tend to be the whiniest little bastards when Blood Moon/Back to Basics/Ruination blows them out for having the best possible land base imaginable. They show that the average player is incapable of understanding risk vs reward.
I am usually one of those guys that "whines" when someone ruinations my mana base. In general, though, I frown on anything that inhibits other's ability to play magic. Usually, though, when someone plays LD, I just take my lumps for that game and then pull out xiahou dun, azusa, marton stromgald, or arcum daggson the next game.
Usually, though, I just call the guy out at the table. Tell him that his deck isnt very fun, and ask if he could play something else. Usually asking nicely works worlds of wonders better than me spite pulling out arcum daggson or xiahou...but the option is always there.
I beg to differ, I have a pretty sick horde of notions deck. Built around blink effects and all the sweetest of elementals... I also retool it to scarecrows of doom and their changeling friends from time to time with the reaper king!
It does pack the usual suspects of prime time, T&N, demonic, vampiric, etc. But there is nothing like spamming crib swap over and over :P.
I do this, and I love it, but it does present several problems:
1) You're stuck with the same deck the whole night. You probably won't get bored with it since it's a brand new deck, but if the power level is vastly disparate from the people you're playing with it could be problematic
2) It's a decent time investment to build a deck, even with everything pre-sleeved. If you want to grab a quick pick-up EDH game and don't have a deck ready, it's minimum 10, probably closer to 30 minutes before you're ready to go.
3) You don't get the opportunity to develop your deck (much). You can swap a card or two between games, but when a new set comes out, and you see "Hey, Jace's Phantasm would be great for my Edric deck... that I haven't had together for 6 months" it kind of sucks.
Well for me, it just made sense. I decided that I would rather have and play with cards like imperial seal, mana drain, grim tutor, duals, etc than have 5 or more copies of tooth and nail, primeval, urborg/coffers, top, etc. In the end, I traded/sold all my extra copies away and got the nice stuff :).
Also, my friend and I make decks before we head to the shop, like I said. I have a big fat stack of 50-60 multi color generals so he and I just shuffle that up and draw out a random general...then we build the deck (as long as colors do not completely overlap). Sometimes you hit maelstrom wanderer and go crazy (like he did) and other time you hit sek'kuar and go REAL crazy (like I did this past week...no one even realized a general like him was around and could be that nasty :P).
For me, I just have all my cards sleeved up with the same sleeves and in a big long box. Whenever its commander night, or I head to the shop, I just randomly select a general and build a deck.
I just dont have to worry about that problem. My buddy also shares my cards so I have 2-3 of whatever staple, or we just play different colors. And when we get bored with our decks, we just switch.
Black can really pump the power of a G/W shell way up...but you need to have the money cards to really do it. Or to be honest, it probably isnt worth it if you are going for a token strategy.
Deadeye's biggest problem with the list is that he is blue and thus the bar is set a bit higher considering the quality of blue creatures. Look at what other people are suggesting for cuts. All those cards are noticeably worse than the navigator.
As for the navigator, for me, he is the quintessential EDH card. Strong, synergistic with a number of strategies, able to fill casual or hard core rolls, and not impossible to stop.
In short, he card do far more interesting things than just "combo out" like palinchron.
I just keep a box of all my EDH cards in the same sleeves. Then I have a large stack of generals and pretty much draw one at random to see what I am playing for the night and make the deck.
deadeye reminds me quite a bit of palinchron, except that it sacrifices nigh invulnerability for increased utility. Deadeye by itself does not do much, but it has such strong synergies with everything.
It gets nuked pretty easy, but eh, its a card that is also quite a bit of fun!
:(, marton is the suprise powerhouse of mono red generals :(. No one sees him coming and then after he smashes face, they all want to read what he does :).
Lately I have had the dilemma if I should be running Sorin Markov. My playgroup we have banned him because for some reason lol... I was always the target of Sorin's ultimate and it just wasn't "fun" so I fought hard to get him banned locally.
I have been playing alot of edh on MTGO and I threw him in because he fits into my Olivia tribal deck. 1 vs 1 on MTGO is very competitive IMO. I try to hold him back but if I am in trouble I'll cast him and take the heat... I try to rationalize but a d-move is a d-move and I feel for the guy across the screen... I was in his/her place before...
eesh, that is like the worst place for casual EDH. There are either the high geared d-bag decks or the "i just put something together from my draft trash" decks.
You are right though, the one on one is competitive there. To be honest, though, if I had infinite resources, I would not even give a slot to sorin. He d's over one player and then dies to the rest of the table. After that, you have a player gunning for you without really affecting the board state at all.
Interestingly, in a casual IRL game, someone used sorin to save my life from my own phyrexian arena. I was at 1 and he put me at 10. Very nice of him. HAH!
I'm not going to read through the various comments on this thread as it no doubt will be full of subjective comments and opinions. I will just state my own to add to the mix and be done with it.
Technically, the player is correct in quitting in order to stop the stack. The rules support his position.
However, this is EDH, not standard. This is meant to be a casual game. If someone is THAT hardcore about splitting hairs in the rules, then they should go back to standard.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone pulls that trick on me, I'll play as if my trigger went though. If the player wants to dispute my move, it's the last game I play with the him EVER. If the rest of the players want to also dispute my move, I'll go find another meta to play with.
That's just the way I see it though.
Sheesh, I hope you don't look in a pond any time soon there narcissus... Man, you sound just like the kind of guy I would NEVER want to play with. You remind me of a friend, who is a raging narcissist, plays only to win, and if he doesnt get his way, he throws a fit, picks up his toys, and leaves.
To be honest, man, I feel kinda sad for you. Psychology is my bag and I know where such narcissistic tendencies originate. Who knows, maybe you are just trolling but I imagine your parents probably needed a swift kick in the rear when you were a baby-toddler.
I really try to avoid cards that limit other people's ability to play the game. That usually means I dont run much graveyard hate, land destruction or hand destruction. In general, I only use this kind of stuff if I see a combo coming. Personally, I prefer the slow battleship style of edh where the decks are like big dreadnaughts firing nukes at each other rather than the "lets see who can combo first or screw the other people" type play. I LIVE for interesting board states.
It really comes down to "do you play to win or to have fun". Different people have different answers to that question.
Also, I am definitely one of those "*******s" with the $1000 land base in my 5 color edh deck. I have been playing since the 90's and just have the cards (actually picked up my playset of duals back in high school when they rotated out of extended and were only $5-7 each for revised!). I have the big portal cards (imperial seal, grim tutor, rolling earthquake, etc), and all the big vintage stuff (I was a big vintage player until brainstorm got restricted).
Suffice to say, I enjoy playing with my cards, dont care if I win or lose, and just want an interesting and fun game. More often than not, I am usually the guy at the table who stops other people from ruining the fun of the game (i.e., I dont care about countering your big fatty but I will counter an armaggedon or myojin in a heartbeat).
I like to think people enjoy playing with me despite the fact that often times, I am playing my $5k edh deck vs a table of budget decks. The moral is, its not what you have, but how you use it that counts.
I also dont mind sharing my cards :). I keep a huge box of EDH staples (with multiples) sleeved up and waiting for whenever I want to make a deck. And if anyone lacks a deck or just wants to try a crazy idea out but doesnt have the cards they need (i.e. its tough playing mishra without a nether void), I let them at the box. I have not had one card stolen or damaged. I hope to keep it that way, and I like to think my attitude goes further in protecting my cards than any lock.
I am usually one of those guys that "whines" when someone ruinations my mana base. In general, though, I frown on anything that inhibits other's ability to play magic. Usually, though, when someone plays LD, I just take my lumps for that game and then pull out xiahou dun, azusa, marton stromgald, or arcum daggson the next game.
Usually, though, I just call the guy out at the table. Tell him that his deck isnt very fun, and ask if he could play something else. Usually asking nicely works worlds of wonders better than me spite pulling out arcum daggson or xiahou...but the option is always there.
And then these as flavor/spots allow
It does pack the usual suspects of prime time, T&N, demonic, vampiric, etc. But there is nothing like spamming crib swap over and over :P.
The only one of those that is dead without another is cabal coffers... but man, that set up can produce a LOT of mana!
Well for me, it just made sense. I decided that I would rather have and play with cards like imperial seal, mana drain, grim tutor, duals, etc than have 5 or more copies of tooth and nail, primeval, urborg/coffers, top, etc. In the end, I traded/sold all my extra copies away and got the nice stuff :).
Also, my friend and I make decks before we head to the shop, like I said. I have a big fat stack of 50-60 multi color generals so he and I just shuffle that up and draw out a random general...then we build the deck (as long as colors do not completely overlap). Sometimes you hit maelstrom wanderer and go crazy (like he did) and other time you hit sek'kuar and go REAL crazy (like I did this past week...no one even realized a general like him was around and could be that nasty :P).
I just dont have to worry about that problem. My buddy also shares my cards so I have 2-3 of whatever staple, or we just play different colors. And when we get bored with our decks, we just switch.
Black can really pump the power of a G/W shell way up...but you need to have the money cards to really do it. Or to be honest, it probably isnt worth it if you are going for a token strategy.
As for the navigator, for me, he is the quintessential EDH card. Strong, synergistic with a number of strategies, able to fill casual or hard core rolls, and not impossible to stop.
In short, he card do far more interesting things than just "combo out" like palinchron.
I would say he is definitely better than-
I have been able to focus on getting a few nice cards that I use across many decks rather than having 6-7 copies of tooth and nail or primeval titan or urborg, tomb of yawgmoth. Instead, I traded all that away and got things like an imperial seal, timetwister , moat, and a few other very nice cards.
Best decision I ever made in regards to EDH!
It gets nuked pretty easy, but eh, its a card that is also quite a bit of fun!
my girlfriend has a Diaochan, Artful Beauty. She makes a pretty sweet commander. But there is always Godo, Bandit Warlord, Kumano, Master Yamabushi, and of course Zirilan of the Claw who is incredibly sick with sundial of the infinite.
eesh, that is like the worst place for casual EDH. There are either the high geared d-bag decks or the "i just put something together from my draft trash" decks.
You are right though, the one on one is competitive there. To be honest, though, if I had infinite resources, I would not even give a slot to sorin. He d's over one player and then dies to the rest of the table. After that, you have a player gunning for you without really affecting the board state at all.
Interestingly, in a casual IRL game, someone used sorin to save my life
Sheesh, I hope you don't look in a pond any time soon there narcissus... Man, you sound just like the kind of guy I would NEVER want to play with. You remind me of a friend, who is a raging narcissist, plays only to win, and if he doesnt get his way, he throws a fit, picks up his toys, and leaves.
To be honest, man, I feel kinda sad for you. Psychology is my bag and I know where such narcissistic tendencies originate. Who knows, maybe you are just trolling but I imagine your parents probably needed a swift kick in the rear when you were a baby-toddler.
It really comes down to "do you play to win or to have fun". Different people have different answers to that question.
Also, I am definitely one of those "*******s" with the $1000 land base in my 5 color edh deck. I have been playing since the 90's and just have the cards (actually picked up my playset of duals back in high school when they rotated out of extended and were only $5-7 each for revised!). I have the big portal cards (imperial seal, grim tutor, rolling earthquake, etc), and all the big vintage stuff (I was a big vintage player until brainstorm got restricted).
Suffice to say, I enjoy playing with my cards, dont care if I win or lose, and just want an interesting and fun game. More often than not, I am usually the guy at the table who stops other people from ruining the fun of the game (i.e., I dont care about countering your big fatty but I will counter an armaggedon or myojin in a heartbeat).
I like to think people enjoy playing with me despite the fact that often times, I am playing my $5k edh deck vs a table of budget decks. The moral is, its not what you have, but how you use it that counts.
I also dont mind sharing my cards :). I keep a huge box of EDH staples (with multiples) sleeved up and waiting for whenever I want to make a deck. And if anyone lacks a deck or just wants to try a crazy idea out but doesnt have the cards they need (i.e. its tough playing mishra without a nether void), I let them at the box. I have not had one card stolen or damaged. I hope to keep it that way, and I like to think my attitude goes further in protecting my cards than any lock.