I agree on the Thoughtseize sentiments stated above. I've been running Duress instead with Thoughtseize on the side. The 2 life just isn't really worth it, and comes back to bite us all too often I found. Plus, Duress hits the two things we care most about (creatures/walkers) anyway, and still gets us knowledge of their hand, without losing the life. By having Thoughtseize on the side, I can easily switch into it to combat creature-light decks.
I don't think Confluence is a good inclusion personally. I tested it briefly and found that it just helped us die too quickly. A life point here or there may not seem too bad in exchange for supreme mana fixing, but a good chunk of matches seem to boil down to us being in the 1-5 life range when we win, so Confluence would honestly just kill us. And it's abysmal starting with it in your hand because almost every turn you're going to lose a life just to use your mana efficiently, which we really need to do as a control deck.
I think Evolving Wilds is fine, I never had a problem with it as a 1-2 of. Honestly I was thinking of playing a slower manabase that has more of the lifelands like Dismal Backwater and throwing Ulcerate in the main or side. Sure the 3 life is counterintuitive to what I was saying above, but having a one mana spell that gets rid of Goblin Rabblemaster, Seeker of the Way, Mantis Rider, Phoenix, etc is a really awesome tempo swing for us. I haven't tested it yet, but most of the time it seems worthwhile if we throw in enough lands that help mitigate the lifeloss, especially if you consider that those threats can easily do 3 or more damage to us anyway.
Congrats on your success! I like your decklist, specifically how many threats you run. I find that my deck has very few win-cons so that if I don't see them we go to a draw or they pack so much removal they die and we go to a draw. So putting in Sphinx and PLA is not a bad idea.
What matchup do you bring Medomai the ageless in for? Seems like an interesting card, but I'm not sure what decks it's good against. I also like Haunted Plate Mail in the side, I think that's actually a very good card that is being ignored right now, since it has really great uses both with and without a creature, though the mana cost is hefty.
I'm not sure I like Suspension Field all that much. While I agree it hits a decent amount of the meta right now, Bile Blight is already a better answer vs. Mantis Rider (though the mana is obviously more backbreaking). Courser doesn't get hit by Blight, but I don't think we need to worry about that card. We don't care about the lifegain, and although it lets them kind of filter through lands, we get the advantage of seeing what cards they are drawing, which is huge. Not huge enough to completely ignore the creature, but we do get to make much smarter decisions when we have an ideas what cards they are holding. I think it's a 'your meta may vary' card, but I'm not entirely convinced of its utility over other choices.
Sarkhan is actually very easily for us to deal with, seeing as we should be packing the full 4 Hero's Downfall and copy or two of Utter End. I admit he can be problematic if left unchecked, but pretty much any Walker is. If we think they are playing Sarkhan or we use a discard spell and see that they have it and opt not to take it, we need to organize our game plan to deal with him.
Polukranos on the other hand is not a big deal. He's really just a vanilla creature that can be pumped since he doesn't have any Monstrosity targets to kill. I will be more than happy to chump him with Ram and then End Hostilities or just use spot removal when he comes down. The real card that is a pain is Rakshasa Deathdealer - that card does work against us. We have to basically apply a lot of pressure against them to make them want to tap out or use their mana, and then take advantage of that to kill it when they don't have regen mana up. This can be very tough sometimes. Though obviously Ram is also an all star here because they have to pump twice to kill it.
As for splashing red, I admit that Keranos is sweet in any control deck, but I don't think Chandra does enough. Her + Lili is cute and I have done it before in Grixis, but A: If you can get both of them out without them dying you are probably just winning anyway, and B: Chandra is RR, which is way harder to warp our manabase around for a card that is only good like 30% of the time in our deck. I honestly don't think she does much for our deck, since we run a decent amount of counters and she pretty much makes us play our Instants are glorified Sorceries, not leaving as much mana up during our opponent's turns, if at all.
did banishing light lose alot of power in the swap over?
are to many people siding in erase?
I've always liked banishing light, but idk what I'd drop for it if i were to replace it.
also are draw spells like divination/jaces ingenueity and font of fortunes important?
noticed nearly every esper deck plays draws of some sort (other than dig) but the list I have doesn't.
I don't like tapping out on our turn unless it's for a threat, so Banishing Light is a card I have never really liked. It's not a bad card, but we have better options to remove anything Banishing Light could, without having to worry if they are packing enchantment removal. because of the rise of the Ascendancy combo, a lot of decks have some form of enchantment hate on their side, and there is nothing worse than paying three mana to Banishing Light something only for them to instant speed Erase/Back to nature/etc to make it come back when we aren't prepared.
Also, yes card draw is important. Dig Through Time is an incredible card, but sometimes you just need raw card advantage. A lot of our cards are one for one removal, so we are in parity with our opponent. But with cards like Abzan Charm and Genesis Hydra around, we need ways to not only keep with our opponent's cards, but try and outpace them in raw cards so that we don't get into topdeck mode as often - our topdecks are usually going to be weaker than theirs because of their reactive nature. Font of Fortunes also gives you a turn two play, which we don't really have, and then we can pop it when we don't need to play anything else.
Hey all, I'm getting ready to do Game Day at my LGS tomorrow, however they have been notorious for not giving the Top 8 Promo to the actual top 8 players in recent Game Days. Instead, they only give to the Top 4. This is with usually 12-20 participants, not sure if that factors into it at all.
I was just wondering if this is something I should report to Wizards or something? Are places allowed to limit how many of the Promos they give out like this? Even after we have brought it up multiple times, the store refuses to change their stance on this.
Stormbreath can definitely be a weak spot, but we have Hero's Downfall and counterspells to deal with it. Really i don't use white for any removal aside from End Hostilities, which obviously is unaffected.
Note: I was missing a Dig Through Time ( I was expecting to run three) so I replaced it with an extra Jace's Ingenuity.
Overall the deck performed very well, and I was very pleased with the results even if my record doesn't seem fantastic. I'll give some brief notes on matches.
Game 1: 2-1 vs Jeskai Tempo
This match is our toughest, so i was really worried about it. And game one I got burned out really early, too much pressure being put on me. It was pretty easy for him. i think the only card I cast was a Hero's Downfall and a Dissolve. Game two I landed an early Nyx Fleece Ram followed by and Ashiok, both which caused him to really struggle with burning me out. Ashiok did a lot of work here, grabbing me a Keranos, which went on to get me enough card advantage to land a Liliana and Elspeth, stabilizing at around 5 life. Game three I Despise'd a Keranos early and landed a Ram, which he had to Stoke to kill. I landed an Elspeth he couldn't deal with and he tried to burn me out, getting me to 2 life. However, an Elspeth ultimate won me the game.
Game 2: 1-1-1 vs Abzan Midrange
The first game was pretty cut and dry - he played a bunch of threats, Monstrosity'd a Fleecemane Lion, and I wiped the board with End Hostilities, leaving just the Lion left before playing Elspeth to create chump blockers every turn. Despise was amazing in this matchup and Elspeth won it for me. Game two I got kind of screwed by my lands and wasn't able to counter a Siege Rhino on time. We had some back and forth but I didn't see enough removal and he overpowered me. Game three was tedious - I had a fair amount of removal, but he landed Ajani and was able to to get two Fleemane Lions out. I played Elspeth to create blockers and he removed it with banishing Light. Ram put up a good wall, but he busted through before I used End Hostilities to kill everything else he had and played a Resolute Archangel on time turn 3, making it impossible for him to win.
Game 3: 0-2 vs Mardu Midrange
The first game I ended up with all white black lands and three Dissolves and a Dog Through Time in my hand. I didn't even put up a fight. Game two went really long - Ashiok did really good work here and almost milled him out, but Sarkhan keep beating my face in and even after playing Resolute Archangel, he still killed me. I didn't see any removal spells, and so he ended up ultimating Sarkhan, drowning me in card advantage but winning 7 cards before milling himself.
Game 4: 2-0 vs Jeskai Tempo
this was a Jeskai Tempo variant that used Ascendancy. Not as a combo piece, but just as a way to filter through cards and pump his guys. Game one I drew plenty of removal and landed a Ram early so I was able to hold him back until Elspeth got an ultimate off. game two I landed a Ram early again, but he got two Ascendancies out, and I was stuck looking at an awkward Bile Blight after he used Feat of Resistance on his Mantis Rider to stop a Hero's Downfall. However, I used back to back Dig Through Times to get two more Rams out, doing a good job at mitigating my life loss. Eventually he ran out of spells and I was able to run out a Liliana, stopping him from getting too many cards, and landed an Elspeth shortly after. A well timed Stubborn Denial helped me avoid a Stoke the Flames, and i was able to get Resolute Archangel out to put me out of burn range and win.
Overall, the deck works great,a nd I had a really good time with it. It felt like a deck that could attack rom different angles and always kept your opponent guessing. In fact I had multiple times when an opponent assumed I had a counterspell and would just flat out not play a threat out of fear.
A couple notes:
- Last Breath seemed useless. Bile Blight is harder to cast, but did way more work, and needing all these cards against Aggro seems like overkill. I'm going to cut them for probably two Reprisals or a Reprisal and a Negate.
- End Hostilities wasn't the best card int he deck, but did serious work against Abzan and even the Jeskai decks once or twice. It's a really solid card, but not spectacular. I'm not sure if I need the fourth in the side, but I'll keep trying it.
- Erase was amazing. I got rid of a lot of banishing Lights with it, and keeping one mana up is very easy and deceptive in our deck. This is the same reason Stubborn Denial did pretty well too - keeping one mana up is usually incredibly easy with out deck. Though I don't think Stubborn denial needs to be more than a one-of in the side.
- Despise was an all star. So much so that I may take Thoughtseize down to two in the side and replace it with the fourth Despise. I don't like Thoughtseize in this deck but it is kind of a necessary evil. Between it and the fetchlands, I think we lose too much life, even with taking Ram and Archangel into account. I may try completely cutting it next week and see how it goes, just to experiment.
Anyway, I'll be taking this to Game Day tomorrow hopefully and should get more practice in with it
I guess I understand why Ashiok is good vs Jeskai but at the same time I don't understand why he is the end all be all. There is a very good chance he will whiff against their deck and it doesn't matter if you exile their burn spells in the same reason milling people isn't really a way to stop them from pulling good cards - it's all chance. If anything, I would imagine they'll just ignore Ashiok and concentrate on just burning you out. It's not out of the question to have them burn us out in 5-6 turns, and if we waste a turn playing Ashiok, that's one less turn to play actual removal/counterspells, and the first few turns against their decks seem crucial. I'm not saying he's bad, but is that really the best option we have? It seems kind of flimsy.
edit: I should say, I understand that there are other good cards against them like Ram and Bile Blight, etc, but a lot of people seem to be putting stock specifically into Ashiok as a way to combat Jeskai very favorably.
Jeskai doesn't run many creatures so it's best to tap out as soon as you can for Ashiok and save your removal for their riders after. They have more burn than your counters, their burn is cheaper than your counters so sitting on a counter while they build up enough mana to shoot 2-3 burn spells over the course of 1 turn isn't efficient use of your mana. The waiting game is not in your favour against this deck. Ashiok has high loyalty so he often will eat 2 burn spells which is about 6-8 damage to your face. If they don't kill Ashiok, he exiles 3 cards a turn compared to their draw 1 which is still chance but odds are in your favour you're going to take something nasty. Back this up with life gain and some counters and with a good draw and some luck, I think it's the best way to combat the deck. Ashiok is probably your best threat as it comes out early and does permanent damage to their deck while providing a distraction for your life total. Exiling over 3 burn spells and even the odd creature is no joke. As long as you can keep your life total healthy through life gain, Ashiok is one of your better threats.
I really like your idea of Stubborn Denial. Seems like some high level counter picking Jeskai with their tempo style.
Okay that actually does make a lot of sense. I could see how Ashiok becomes this very "damned if you do, damned if you don't" card for them to try and deal with. So since that matchup is so bad for us, should we be running 4-of Ashiok between the main and sideboard? (S)he also seems very good against the midrangey decks that play Siege Rhino and Courser, so I feel like it may be worthwhile to have as many copies as possible, but maybe that's not right.
edit: By the way has anyone tried Kill Shot in the main or sideboard? I really like the card for how easy it is to cast, the fact that it kills an attacking creature (which honestly are the only creatures we really care about), and is non conditional nature unlike Reprisal, Last Breath, etc. Obviously I'm not saying we should replace Hero's Downfall with it, but I just was wondering if anyone had messed with it yet.
I guess I understand why Ashiok is good vs Jeskai but at the same time I don't understand why he is the end all be all. There is a very good chance he will whiff against their deck and it doesn't matter if you exile their burn spells in the same reason milling people isn't really a way to stop them from pulling good cards - it's all chance. If anything, I would imagine they'll just ignore Ashiok and concentrate on just burning you out. It's not out of the question to have them burn us out in 5-6 turns, and if we waste a turn playing Ashiok, that's one less turn to play actual removal/counterspells, and the first few turns against their decks seem crucial. I'm not saying he's bad, but is that really the best option we have? It seems kind of flimsy.
edit: I should say, I understand that there are other good cards against them like Ram and Bile Blight, etc, but a lot of people seem to be putting stock specifically into Ashiok as a way to combat Jeskai very favorably.
Hey guys looking at playing an Esper Control deck tomorrow at FNM and possibly for Game Day. However, I am tryingto figure out what best cards are used to combat aggro decks and Jeskai wins. For aggro, Last Breath and Drown in Sorrow seem fantastic, however do we need both? Right now between the main and side I have 4 of each, and I think that's a little overkill, especially since I also have Rams in the deck. I'm just not sure which is better.
In terms of combating Jeskai Wins, I have found a lot of good results in playing Stubborn Denial when I played Grixis. Because Jeskai is all about using mana efficiently as tempo-minded as possible, they will often tap out to cast burn spells or will want to cast two spells consecutively, and this card lets us mess up their plans in that regard for a very cheap mana cost. Plus, it turns on with Archangel out, which is a serendipitous bonus. However, I don't think this card is that great in ANY other matchup, except maybe the mirror (but probably not). I'm not sure if it's worth packing this just to combat Jeskai wins or if just playing Negate is better. What kind of luck have you guys found versus Jeskai?
Jace is fine, but not great. I played him even before Khans, and he did some work but not enough for me to usually validate slamming him T4. He helps smooth draws out which is nice and can deal with permanents we otherwise can't, and he is really tough to remove because of how high his loyalty starts at. However, all that being said, he doesn't net us a lot of value. In heavy Delve decks I guess I could see him working out, but even then T4 Steam Augury is still better IMO. It gets you more cards than he does and dumps more into the GY, and is Instant speed. I'm not saying there isn't room for both, as I used to play both, but I just don't think he does enough right now.
I have 5 Delve spells in my build - 2 Empty the Pits, 2 Dig Through Time, 1 Murderous Cut. I didn't have any issue casting them for cheap, so much so that Murderous Cut will probably be bumped up to a 2-of. That card is very nice. I agree that Lightning Strike seems pretty subpar, I also found myself not getting much use out of it. I'm not ready to write it off yet, as it has some good versatility, but a lot of the creatures I faced on Friday had toughness that made it mostly irrelevant.
I'm going to do a more in depth analysis of my time at FNM later but for now let me just say that the matchup against Jeskai tempo is miserable. Even when I was able to get them on the backfoot, they could stabilize pretty quickly. It was a rough matchup. In other news Ashcloud Phoenix was a boss. Won me a bunch of games on its own and it was a nightmare for my opponents to efficinetly deal with.
To stir other finisher discussion -- what are thoughts on Necropolis Fiend?
Other than it likely being a casual card.
Fiend isn't awful only because he has removal attached to him. However, I don't feel like our deck can reliably abuse him enough to make him more than just a 4/5 flyer for a sometimes discounted mana cost, which is not what we want.
Actually after doing some more playtesting and seeing a couple other matches other control decks have played, I think Phoenix may be what we want. The card is very resistant to removal, trades very well if needed, and it has high enough power that it can win the game singlehandedly for us. Plus it turns on Stubborn Denial, which isn't a bad sideboard card.
I agree. Silence has been very good in my testing, plus the format has slowed down a bit because of all the mana fixing that comes in tapped. So a four mana removal effect is not as slow as it seems, and most of the time you can double it up. Thinking of putting another on the sideboard because of how strong it has been in testing.
I think Evolving Wilds is fine, I never had a problem with it as a 1-2 of. Honestly I was thinking of playing a slower manabase that has more of the lifelands like Dismal Backwater and throwing Ulcerate in the main or side. Sure the 3 life is counterintuitive to what I was saying above, but having a one mana spell that gets rid of Goblin Rabblemaster, Seeker of the Way, Mantis Rider, Phoenix, etc is a really awesome tempo swing for us. I haven't tested it yet, but most of the time it seems worthwhile if we throw in enough lands that help mitigate the lifeloss, especially if you consider that those threats can easily do 3 or more damage to us anyway.
What matchup do you bring Medomai the ageless in for? Seems like an interesting card, but I'm not sure what decks it's good against. I also like Haunted Plate Mail in the side, I think that's actually a very good card that is being ignored right now, since it has really great uses both with and without a creature, though the mana cost is hefty.
I'm not sure I like Suspension Field all that much. While I agree it hits a decent amount of the meta right now, Bile Blight is already a better answer vs. Mantis Rider (though the mana is obviously more backbreaking). Courser doesn't get hit by Blight, but I don't think we need to worry about that card. We don't care about the lifegain, and although it lets them kind of filter through lands, we get the advantage of seeing what cards they are drawing, which is huge. Not huge enough to completely ignore the creature, but we do get to make much smarter decisions when we have an ideas what cards they are holding. I think it's a 'your meta may vary' card, but I'm not entirely convinced of its utility over other choices.
Polukranos on the other hand is not a big deal. He's really just a vanilla creature that can be pumped since he doesn't have any Monstrosity targets to kill. I will be more than happy to chump him with Ram and then End Hostilities or just use spot removal when he comes down. The real card that is a pain is Rakshasa Deathdealer - that card does work against us. We have to basically apply a lot of pressure against them to make them want to tap out or use their mana, and then take advantage of that to kill it when they don't have regen mana up. This can be very tough sometimes. Though obviously Ram is also an all star here because they have to pump twice to kill it.
As for splashing red, I admit that Keranos is sweet in any control deck, but I don't think Chandra does enough. Her + Lili is cute and I have done it before in Grixis, but A: If you can get both of them out without them dying you are probably just winning anyway, and B: Chandra is RR, which is way harder to warp our manabase around for a card that is only good like 30% of the time in our deck. I honestly don't think she does much for our deck, since we run a decent amount of counters and she pretty much makes us play our Instants are glorified Sorceries, not leaving as much mana up during our opponent's turns, if at all.
I don't like tapping out on our turn unless it's for a threat, so Banishing Light is a card I have never really liked. It's not a bad card, but we have better options to remove anything Banishing Light could, without having to worry if they are packing enchantment removal. because of the rise of the Ascendancy combo, a lot of decks have some form of enchantment hate on their side, and there is nothing worse than paying three mana to Banishing Light something only for them to instant speed Erase/Back to nature/etc to make it come back when we aren't prepared.
Also, yes card draw is important. Dig Through Time is an incredible card, but sometimes you just need raw card advantage. A lot of our cards are one for one removal, so we are in parity with our opponent. But with cards like Abzan Charm and Genesis Hydra around, we need ways to not only keep with our opponent's cards, but try and outpace them in raw cards so that we don't get into topdeck mode as often - our topdecks are usually going to be weaker than theirs because of their reactive nature. Font of Fortunes also gives you a turn two play, which we don't really have, and then we can pop it when we don't need to play anything else.
I was just wondering if this is something I should report to Wizards or something? Are places allowed to limit how many of the Promos they give out like this? Even after we have brought it up multiple times, the store refuses to change their stance on this.
Thanks!
Anyway, this is what I ran tonight:
1 Resolute Archangel
3 Nyx Fleece Ram
Planeswalkers
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Liliana Vess
Instants
4 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Dissolve
2 Utter End
1 Murderous Cut
2 Jace's Ingenuity
2 Dig Through Time
3 Despise
3 End Hostilities
26 Lands
2 Erase
3 Thoughtseize
1 Stubborn Denial
2 Last Breath
1 Nyx Fleece Ram
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 End Hostilities
1 Resolute Archangel
1 Pearl Lake Ancient
Note: I was missing a Dig Through Time ( I was expecting to run three) so I replaced it with an extra Jace's Ingenuity.
Overall the deck performed very well, and I was very pleased with the results even if my record doesn't seem fantastic. I'll give some brief notes on matches.
Game 1: 2-1 vs Jeskai Tempo
This match is our toughest, so i was really worried about it. And game one I got burned out really early, too much pressure being put on me. It was pretty easy for him. i think the only card I cast was a Hero's Downfall and a Dissolve. Game two I landed an early Nyx Fleece Ram followed by and Ashiok, both which caused him to really struggle with burning me out. Ashiok did a lot of work here, grabbing me a Keranos, which went on to get me enough card advantage to land a Liliana and Elspeth, stabilizing at around 5 life. Game three I Despise'd a Keranos early and landed a Ram, which he had to Stoke to kill. I landed an Elspeth he couldn't deal with and he tried to burn me out, getting me to 2 life. However, an Elspeth ultimate won me the game.
Game 2: 1-1-1 vs Abzan Midrange
The first game was pretty cut and dry - he played a bunch of threats, Monstrosity'd a Fleecemane Lion, and I wiped the board with End Hostilities, leaving just the Lion left before playing Elspeth to create chump blockers every turn. Despise was amazing in this matchup and Elspeth won it for me. Game two I got kind of screwed by my lands and wasn't able to counter a Siege Rhino on time. We had some back and forth but I didn't see enough removal and he overpowered me. Game three was tedious - I had a fair amount of removal, but he landed Ajani and was able to to get two Fleemane Lions out. I played Elspeth to create blockers and he removed it with banishing Light. Ram put up a good wall, but he busted through before I used End Hostilities to kill everything else he had and played a Resolute Archangel on time turn 3, making it impossible for him to win.
Game 3: 0-2 vs Mardu Midrange
The first game I ended up with all white black lands and three Dissolves and a Dog Through Time in my hand. I didn't even put up a fight. Game two went really long - Ashiok did really good work here and almost milled him out, but Sarkhan keep beating my face in and even after playing Resolute Archangel, he still killed me. I didn't see any removal spells, and so he ended up ultimating Sarkhan, drowning me in card advantage but winning 7 cards before milling himself.
Game 4: 2-0 vs Jeskai Tempo
this was a Jeskai Tempo variant that used Ascendancy. Not as a combo piece, but just as a way to filter through cards and pump his guys. Game one I drew plenty of removal and landed a Ram early so I was able to hold him back until Elspeth got an ultimate off. game two I landed a Ram early again, but he got two Ascendancies out, and I was stuck looking at an awkward Bile Blight after he used Feat of Resistance on his Mantis Rider to stop a Hero's Downfall. However, I used back to back Dig Through Times to get two more Rams out, doing a good job at mitigating my life loss. Eventually he ran out of spells and I was able to run out a Liliana, stopping him from getting too many cards, and landed an Elspeth shortly after. A well timed Stubborn Denial helped me avoid a Stoke the Flames, and i was able to get Resolute Archangel out to put me out of burn range and win.
Overall, the deck works great,a nd I had a really good time with it. It felt like a deck that could attack rom different angles and always kept your opponent guessing. In fact I had multiple times when an opponent assumed I had a counterspell and would just flat out not play a threat out of fear.
A couple notes:
- Last Breath seemed useless. Bile Blight is harder to cast, but did way more work, and needing all these cards against Aggro seems like overkill. I'm going to cut them for probably two Reprisals or a Reprisal and a Negate.
- End Hostilities wasn't the best card int he deck, but did serious work against Abzan and even the Jeskai decks once or twice. It's a really solid card, but not spectacular. I'm not sure if I need the fourth in the side, but I'll keep trying it.
- Erase was amazing. I got rid of a lot of banishing Lights with it, and keeping one mana up is very easy and deceptive in our deck. This is the same reason Stubborn Denial did pretty well too - keeping one mana up is usually incredibly easy with out deck. Though I don't think Stubborn denial needs to be more than a one-of in the side.
- Despise was an all star. So much so that I may take Thoughtseize down to two in the side and replace it with the fourth Despise. I don't like Thoughtseize in this deck but it is kind of a necessary evil. Between it and the fetchlands, I think we lose too much life, even with taking Ram and Archangel into account. I may try completely cutting it next week and see how it goes, just to experiment.
Anyway, I'll be taking this to Game Day tomorrow hopefully and should get more practice in with it
Okay that actually does make a lot of sense. I could see how Ashiok becomes this very "damned if you do, damned if you don't" card for them to try and deal with. So since that matchup is so bad for us, should we be running 4-of Ashiok between the main and sideboard? (S)he also seems very good against the midrangey decks that play Siege Rhino and Courser, so I feel like it may be worthwhile to have as many copies as possible, but maybe that's not right.
edit: By the way has anyone tried Kill Shot in the main or sideboard? I really like the card for how easy it is to cast, the fact that it kills an attacking creature (which honestly are the only creatures we really care about), and is non conditional nature unlike Reprisal, Last Breath, etc. Obviously I'm not saying we should replace Hero's Downfall with it, but I just was wondering if anyone had messed with it yet.
edit: I should say, I understand that there are other good cards against them like Ram and Bile Blight, etc, but a lot of people seem to be putting stock specifically into Ashiok as a way to combat Jeskai very favorably.
In terms of combating Jeskai Wins, I have found a lot of good results in playing Stubborn Denial when I played Grixis. Because Jeskai is all about using mana efficiently as tempo-minded as possible, they will often tap out to cast burn spells or will want to cast two spells consecutively, and this card lets us mess up their plans in that regard for a very cheap mana cost. Plus, it turns on with Archangel out, which is a serendipitous bonus. However, I don't think this card is that great in ANY other matchup, except maybe the mirror (but probably not). I'm not sure if it's worth packing this just to combat Jeskai wins or if just playing Negate is better. What kind of luck have you guys found versus Jeskai?
Fiend isn't awful only because he has removal attached to him. However, I don't feel like our deck can reliably abuse him enough to make him more than just a 4/5 flyer for a sometimes discounted mana cost, which is not what we want.
Actually after doing some more playtesting and seeing a couple other matches other control decks have played, I think Phoenix may be what we want. The card is very resistant to removal, trades very well if needed, and it has high enough power that it can win the game singlehandedly for us. Plus it turns on Stubborn Denial, which isn't a bad sideboard card.