MTG Salvation

Ral Zarek - steal two creatures for zero mana. Has the added bonus of being on curve with Willbreaker, in case that's relevant.

Quote from pizz0wn3d »

Updated the creature section to include other options like Lavaman and YP. Can do the same for the other sections if anyone has ideas.

I know this sounds like jank, but I very recently put Shadow Guildmage into my aggressive build of this deck in place of my singleton Lavamancer, and boy is it overperforming. It still picks off all the mana dorks and Thalias/Bobs/Cliques/Infect dorks, but doesn't chew up your Snapcaster/JVP/Delve fuel. It also teams up with Bolt effects to hit the 4 damage level, which is where you get to kill things like Loxodon Smiter and flipped Huntmasters. Plus, the blue ability is actually gas with Abbots and Snapcasters, along with simply being a nifty way to dodge removal, and is actually reasonable with Tasigur to enable you to thin your grave of spells you don't want to buy back. The fact that it's black means it can shoot Burrenton Forge Tenders, which are popular in my meta, which was the original impetus to switch from Grim.

I actually really like Destiny with all the hexproof guys. Is there any gouge on why Ben had a 2/2 split? When do you go to four?

How is Frightful Delusion? It's got so much potential power but I wonder how often it works.

Regarding Alchemy, everybody except Presidente seems to be missing the point entirely, which is what I was afraid of.

I can understand not wanting to put your win condition in the grave. To me that seems rather a minor concern. Nothing else in Standard is going to dig like Alchemy, at instant speed for three mana. Comparing it directly to USZ is unfair, because they are completely different cards used for entirely different functions. So stop doing that, everybody.

If it helps, think of it as sort of a Thirst for Knowledge effect, or maybe Compulsive Research, except you can't discard just one card, but you get to dig one deeper and flash back. If you're using it to dig for an answer, you probably haven't asserted dominion over the game yet, so there's no need to bother with win conditions, especially things like Sphinx or Titan that make you tap out and therefore vulnerable. You're playing draw-go, for goodness' sake. You can afford to be patient. You should have multiple win conditions - win conditions you can draw much later in the game with Zenith or a flashed back Alchemy. Your win condition creatures are most likely dead weight until AT LEAST turn 8 or so. Be patient.

Quote from El Presidente

Although, while you're digging 1 deeper, you're also getting 5 less cards. Chew on that.

Wow, way to only respond to one sentence in the entire post. I guess that means I'm right.

Obviously you don't draw a billion cards. But if you need one answer to something late in the game, it doesn't matter if you draw ten cards or two, if the two are what you need. Also you're playing the card and flashing it back, making it resilient to counterspells, and it requires less blue mana to play. Preferring to draw seven random cards as opposed to two good ones is just Timmy kicking in.

This is just an afterthought though. I'm not suggesting Alchemy is more powerful than USZ in the late game, because it isn't. So I'm done talking about this. If you want to address my actual points feel free.

Let's not troll and keep everything civil

I like this build, it's simple and to-the-point. Probably the right call for the current, almost entirely unknown metagame.

The only thing I'm iffy on is the finishers, but only because I'm of a mind to play pure draw-go.

Quote from dementia55372

I think Forbidden Alchemy will start to see more play once there are more flashback cards for it to dump into the grave but until then relying purely on Snapcaster Mage is a little much.

No, you're overthinking it. It's not good because it put cards in the grave. It's good because it gives you a choice of the top 4 cards to draw, which is deeper than we've been able to dig in a while. The fact that it puts the cards in your grave - an eminently more usable zone than the bottom of your library - almost doubles its value in certain situations and really just serves as icing on the delicious cake of this terrific draw spell.

And this engine costs 2U at instant speed and flashes back. Good lord.

Edit: oh yeah and it doesn't trigger Consecrated Sphinx.

Edit 2: just realized playing and flashing back Alchemy digs one deeper than a USZ for the same amount of mana. Chew on that.

If you're not playing Forbidden Alchemy in this deck, you are wrong. I won't pretend to know the right number, but the velocity of this card with all the flashback effects in this format is just the tits. Dig 4, find the counter you need, dump some other stuff in the grave... Then flash that stuff back with Tiago Chan. How is that not the most terrific card advantage play to be seen in Standard in years?

Quote from hfrank123

Forbidden Alchemy is too slow. The only cards you can use from the gy are Silent and Past, and past will be late game. -1 past....

Yeah but Alchemy makes a Snapcaster in your hand potentially much more versatile, and it's the pinnacle of card selection in this day and age.

Wow, I feel like there's some really janky suggestions floating around in here. This deck will never be competitive while playing Mind Slash and Hypnotic Specter. BR Rack with no Blightning... -facepalm- Focus. Condense. Play good/better cards. There are a billion synergies you can exploit with black Rack strategies but they're all borderline. Cards like Lili 2.0 and Bloodghast are fracking gift-wrapped for this deck. Just play good cards, there's more'n enough.

NoSB is an old pet card of mine. It was very well-positioned in Standard back in the day. It's surprising how a relatively small effect like that can screw up decks. However, it was always too slow, even on turn three. About the only time I ever used it with success competitively was when I dropped it on an old Extended Sligh build (and I mean OLD extended - like '04). The only creature he had that could stick was a face down Blistering Firecat. I think I went 2-3 drop in that event.

TL;DR no it ain't gon' work.

Quote from Jaruri

RIP 12-Post, it was good while it lasted.

Anyways, would this deck work if you replaced the 12 posts with urzatron?

"Work" and "succeed" are two different things. That being said, I'm not sure what you're looking for, here. It's not like anyone in his right mind tested Urzakul while 12post was still legal. If you love the concept of this deck, give it a shot and see what happens, but it won't be the same.

Hooray, Scepter-Go is viable again!

Oblivion Ring is a legitimate concern - and so is that new white Faceless Butcher, and Leonin Relic-Warder. Grave Titan is better in those situations. Plus it's just a house, he seems like he'll win the game pretty quickly. Wurmcoil is a tank, but he's a tank most aggro decks will likely be packing hate for. Of course, if you're playing the deck correctly and being patient, anything with Flash and/or some form of evasion can take it home for you. I like Lantern Spirit for example, but he feels just a little underpowered.

Is there anyone else who wants to use Inkmoth Nexus and other Infect guys to poison them for the win? That seems relatively solid. Especially with Skittles.

Regarding the big card pics, how about Snapcaster Mage, Forbidden Alchemy, and Dissipate? Kinda sums up the point of the deck while giving a quick reference to some Innistrad cards we can't card tag yet.