MTG Salvation

After reading a few pages a common gripe is the banning of ponder and preordain.

It seems so obvious that the folks at wotc just looked at the vintage banned list and went 'oh, if it works for vintage then it must be correct to do this in modern'.

[aside: the fact that ponder is still restricted in vintage is a complete joke]

The simple fact of the matter is that in vintage cards like ponder and brainstorm are drawing into a slew of insanely powerful cards, whereas in modern they are drawing into a bunch of fragile combo pieces.

I think they should at least unban preordain and then if they want they could ban peer through depths

i've been testing a version with brainstorm and bump in the night, and it's been going really well - just wondering if any other people have tried splashing both these cards, and how they've been finding them? So far brainstorm has been pretty insane, and has been functioning like a pseudo magma jet that sometimes turns into a fireblast

here's my current list:

4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Bump in the Night
4 Flame Rift

4 Brainstorm
4 Fireblast

4 Goblin Guide
4 Keldon Marauders

3 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
3 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain

Quote from JediSolo

Well they could potentially hit both sword and Mutavault if they flash it back.

Mutavault has protection from ancient grudge

Quote from Ball Lightning

If you're attacking with a Sworded up Mutavault, ancient grudge would take out your sword.

which sucks, but is still better than losing a sword and a land for 3 mana

Mishra's Factory Vs Mutavault

Factory Pros:
Double factory can take down a Wild Nacatl
Single Factory can live through Loam Lion or Kird Ape

Factory Cons:
Getting my lands post-combat pridemaged sucks
Ancient Grudge randomly double stone rains you sometimes

Mutavault Pros:
Doesn't activate any artifact removal spells
Gets pumped in the Merfolk Match

Mutavault Cons:
Doesn't take down any zoo creatures


imo: the sometimes extra point of damage is irrelevant when the land is carrying a sword, but attacking with a sworded up Factory into an ancient grudge is pretty much the worst feeling in the world

just skimmed the first post, here are my thoughts:

i think its total bs the way that some [read: all] of the moderators throw the strictness of the guidelines around

eg: someone will post a question such as 'what is two plus two' and I will respond with 'four' and I will get a warning for making a one word post, which has happened many times to me, the questions are obviously not this pathetic, but often they will be something like 'what is the correct number of lands to play in 43lands'

also, when a mod closes a thread because the skim over the head post and misinterpret the intention of the thread, which has also happened multiple times [eg: making a thread about metagaming that happens to include a decklist for a MBC deck, gets closed because it belongs in the MBC thread]

I think 99% of the problems with the moderators are that they either a) do not actually read, b) can not actually read, or c) choose not to read peoples posts before issuing warnings etc

just my thoughts, whatever

I like ponder in decks with less lands, and typically they are the decks that want more than 4 brainstorms

fwiw, mutavault cant get ancient grudged

Blue MD:
Counterbalance

Brainstorm
Ponder
Predict

Force of Will
Counterspell
Spell Snare
Daze

Snapcaster Mage [w/Riptide Laboratory]
Vendilion Clique [w/Riptide Laboratory, Karakas]
Sower of Temptation [w/Riptide Laboratory]

Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Cunning Wish
--Forbid
--Capsize
--Wing Shards
--Ancient Grudge
--Krosan Grip
--Pyroblast
--Red Elemental Blast
--Hydroblast
--Blue Elemental Blast
--Extirpate
--Surgical Extraction
--Swords to Plowshares
--Path to Exile
--Ray of Revelation
--Misdirection
--Divert

Trinket Mage
--Phyrexian Dreadnought [w/Stifle]
--Engineered Explosives
--Basilisk Collar [w/Grim Lavamancer]
--Pithing Needle
--Seat of the Synod

Blue SB:
Spell Pierce
Flusterstorm
Dispel
Annul
Envelop
Propaganda

White Splash MD:
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Stoneforge Mystic
--Batterskull
--Sword of Feast and Famine
--Sword of Fire and Ice
--Sword of Body and Mind
--Umezawa's Jitte
--Sword of the Meek [w/Thopter Foundry]
--Manriki-Gusari

Enlightened Tutor
--Engineered Explosives [w/Academy Ruins]
--Crucible of Worlds [w/Mishra's Factory, Wasteland]
--Ensnaring Bridge
--Humility
--Moat
--Oblivion Ring
--Pithing Needle
--Thopter Foundry
--Sword of the Meek
--Ethersworn Canonist
--Wheel of Sun and Moon
--Chill
--Energy Flux
--Blood Moon
--Back to Basics
--Aura of Silence
--The Abyss
--Nether Void

White Splash SB:
Wrath of God
Day of Judgment
Disenchant
Peacekeeper
Ray of Revelation

Green Splash MD:
Tarmogoyf
Rhox War Monk
Firespout

Knight of the Reliquary
--Bojuka Bog
--Wasteland
--Maze of Ith
--Tower of the Magistrate
--The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Natural Order
--Noble Hierarch
--Dryad Arbor
--Progenitus

Living Wish
--Gaddock Teeg
--The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
--Bojuka Bog
--Llawan, Cephalid Empress
--Ethersworn Canonist
--Faerie Macabre
--Peacekeeper
--Qasali Pridemage

Green Splash SB:
Krosan Grip
Nature's Claim

Red Splash MD:
Grim Lavamancer
Firespout

Red Splash SB:
Ancient Grudge
Red Elemental Blast
Pyroblast

Black Splash MD:
Dark Confidant
Dismember
Diabolic Edict

Black Splash SB:
Leyline of the Void
Surgical Extraction
Extirpate

edit: if someone else could fill in all the stuff that i've missed, perhaps we could collaboratively make a comprehensive 'design decision tree' for the head post, because i suspect that once the metagame corrects itself, this deck will become viable again

nb: some of these options [such as cunning wish] are obviously not ideal or typical, however, they exist and the more data listed only increases options

Quote from hectoky

Hi all!!,

Well I have the same doubt than between using UWr or only the UW. The lists are very similar but instead of using two spellstutter I play two path of exile in the maindeck. With red splash we gain the firespout (is better than the wrath of god because you can use it with tne snapcasters) and the best counterspell against counters the red elemental blast but without this splash, our mana base is stronger and we can add more wasteland and mishra factories. Another advantage that I see with red splash is that if we forget the mishra factories(or wasteland) we can add some copies of vedalken shackles.

With red splash I wouldn't use the crucible I prefer to focus on another things also without the wastelands we lose effectiveness, and why don't you prefer to use mishra factories instead of mutavault? I know that they are sprites and wizard but only with four sprites in the maindeck... is not better a blocker 3/3?

wrath is definitely better than firespout

@Rignes: I would probably cut a Jace for a Crucible in the splash red version. They basically do the same thing in this deck by drawing a card every turn, but Crucible can randomly lock people out and gives you inevitability with your Mutavault if the game goes long. Repeal is also very good against Vial and Batterskull token because of the card advantage (and Counterbalance, i guess), but I think echoing truth is just better against nut draws (ie double nacatl, dredge zombies, etc) and if you cast it early and snap it back on turn 4 (against a deck with doubles) you basically win the game on the spot from all the tempo you gain.

Quote from Dzra

I think the Wasteland argument will amount to the same argument that was seen with Cawblade variants. UWb and UWr are great in theory, but straight UW beats both of them (and is tighter in general). Wasteland doesn't mean we need to mana-screw our opponents. Sometimes just cutting them off one color is enough. Wasteland is also free removal for Mutavaults and Mishra's Factorys (especially relevant in mirrors), not to mention other nifty lands like Maze of Ith, Glacial Chasm, Dark Depths, Horizon Canopy, etc. Wasteland is also great at fighting other Wastelands. Waste your Waste, play my Riptide... profit?

UWR Stoneblade with Grim Lavamancer, Lightning bolt and Moons MD is supposed to be good in the mirror, but statistically this has (conclusively) been proved as false. I agree with this part of your post, however, I believe that the opportunity cost of including a single (or probably two) Volcanic Islands in the main deck in order to splash SB Red Elemental Blasts is probably correct, especially in an environment that is fast enough that people are cutting back on wastelands.

Counterbalance CMC Information
1: 14
2: 13
3: 4
4: 3
5: 4

Force of Will Blue Count: 24

Quote from Rignes

@Oatus: How has this deck been working out for you? I like the look of it (the fact that I have all of the cards helps it look good to me too).

I've never played a CounterTop sort of deck before and might like to try it out.

Thanks.

Nah man, its loose as. If i was going to play countertop right now I would be playing goyf and not playing thopters.

With that deck, I've always felt like I wanted more threes for counterbalance, but I can't find the room for them. Originally I had the one snapcaster as an echoing truth (which I think is an awesome card right now, fwiw) and was much happier with the versatility of that it provided. I've been finding that by the time I am flashing back a brainstorm I don't have enough cards in hand that it actually feels worth it, and if I'm flashing a tutor I think I'm either far enough ahead that it doesn't matter, or I lose too much tempo and get killed. Basically his sole duty was flashing swords (but flashing back swords is good).