Well... WWW isn't that clunky in a deck that expects to use Emeria, the Sky Ruin
However, your other two points (on Ghostly Prison vs. Archangel of Tithes) are very relevant. You should want those effects in time to stabilize or stall (arguably recovering on board with a Wrath/Verdict).
Racing to a 4-drop board wipe just to re-establish board presence with a 4-drop creature is less advantageous than a 3-drop enchantment into a 4-drop wrath effect that leaves the Prison behind. Restricting your opponent's options/luring them to try and remove your Prison instead of furthering their board ends up playing into our hand more than a 3/5 flyer (imo)
A single copy of Aven Mimeomancer sounds interesting too, for shrinking large opposing creatures or turning your own Walls and Missionaries into evasive threats in the late game.
If you really need to tune toward those decks, we certainly have a nice shell to custom fit to your local meta. I'd say we do reasonably well, yes. As a bonus, W provides a great selection of powerful sideboard options to flex in like Kor Firewalker.
I agree with FDL. Solemn is a high value creature but it has relevant downsides for our deck.
Ramping from 4 to 5 is nice, but we can't guarantee we'll hit 6 afterward into Sun Titan every time. Although... it can be nice when you verdict/wrath into a "free" draw
Its draw effect triggers off of it dying. Unless we can equip our 1/2-of Mortarpod to it after it resolves (when we already have 6 mana available), we can't guarantee that we'll see that draw when we want to. Anger of the Gods is a real annoyance for our deck too and including Solemn doesn't get around it.
It won't be a priority recursion with Emeria, the Sky Ruinever(?) and we can't return it with Sun Titan. If we have the land to get it back, we won't really need MORE land. It is slightly better for Emeria Shepherd, but is a very situational win-more.
It's a 2/2 body and it can survive blocking 1-power creatures/tokens & Prodigal Pyromancer-style "ping" effects, but that's somewhat of a downside. We'll want to chump-block into a draw when we want and that isn't always an option. Islandwalking merfolk and flying creatures can leave us with a 4 2-power beater that "can't block" and is matched by Lone Missionary at 1W. (Big )
It pushes us closer to resolving Sun Titan (+1 land, sometimes a draw), but it's not as effective at preventing us from losing before (or just after) doing so. This is where I can't ignore how "weak" it feels when casting it compared to a play of two 2-drops off of a Wall/Hussar draw at 3 mana when reaching 4 mana.
When we need to put pressure on our opponents early, we can get some from our weeny 2-drops but we've lost the ability to force responses (disrupting their tempo) by the time play our 4th land -- arguably until we can cast Sun Titan
I think Resto Angel & Solemn Simulacrum both are not ideal in the core deck because they're redundant pieces that can't be re-used as frequently as pieces that come back from Sun Titan and he's the deck's centerpiece. They do have unique strengths: getting a flash, flying 3/4 & extra plains directly into play (+ drawing) are both fantastic options! However, we can flicker with Flickerwisp at 1WW & Venser, the Sojourner (more than once + get unblockable creatures) and we can still get a steady flow of lands through our draws & pilgrim's eye triggers.
I'm you can make some "well it isn't "strictly better" points as a counterpoint to what I listed, but I do see what I listed as relevant downsides to Solemn Simulacrum. Perhaps it could be worth including in specific builds? However, I think we'd ideally like an upgrade or alternative to Pilgrim's Eye at 3 and until then I think the Eye(s) are probably superior to Solemn -- and aren't they're one of our least desirable cards in the core build? I'm sorry if I was redundant or rambled in my post, I came here looking to ask 2 questions and spent over an hour evaluating reasons I think S.S. is good/bad while eating dinner instead
Extra thoughts below so I didn't clutter the main post.
From point #1: I would like being able to threaten Sun Titan earlier, but don't know how we get improve that gameplan without affecting what we have going already.
From point #2: I get we can just equip the turn after and hope for the best, but it's clunky to tap out at 4 to resolve Solemn Simulacrum and then spend at least 2 mana the following turn to make it a 2/3 with a sacrifice effect.
From point #3: This point raises my biggest problem. If it isn't great to recur in a deck with 3-9 cards focused on returning other permanents from the graveyard, why include it? The E-Shepherd example is a bit too situational for my liking too (a 1-of 7 drop triggering off a land coming into play to return Solemn to play and to get another trigger for extra value)
From point #4: I guess he does have the upside of being able to block creatures with Protection from White/Blue/Black(Mortarpod germs)?
From point #5: We have a lot of relevant cards that immediately help us not-lose when they enter the battlefield (gain 4 life, draw a card -- maybe removal!/a counterspell/Sun Titan!, filter your next 3 draws for the best possible choice, etc.) I think Simulacrum is not a strong enough "speedbump" card to warrant its inclusion. (a "speedbump" being something that extends the game in a meaningful way for us)
From point #6: It's too slow for beating down early and too small for closing out games late compared to things we can return to the battlefield with Sun Titan already (which help close games on both ends!)
From point #7, #1: Sun Titan (or its general effect) is what we're looking to do when we want to close out a game. Am I wrong thinking he's our centerpiece, even when he's sometimes a 3-of?
Early steps:
gain life
draw/filter cards
don't lose before getting 6 mana
Closing steps:
resolve Sun Titan
bring back your lost friends and hit your opponent with them, when applicable
From point #7, #2: Sure, we won't blow them out through blanking their removal, or getting out Sun Titan a land drop faster, but that seems... acceptable? For what it's worth, I think Resto holds value in a tap-out midrange-y deck that follows a similar gameplan to ours WHEN we can keep the pressure coming. (K's Command vs. Blade Splicer = sad times for now)
Relevant questions I came here to ask before making the above response:
Is there ever a time we're looking for acceleration from something like Mind Stone? (or any similar spells/permanents that get us to Sun Titan faster like Solemn Simulacrum)
Is a turn 5 (or earlier) Sun Titan worthwhile enough to cut other parts of the deck for a chance at achieving it or is that just the most important step to reach when trying to win for us?
I finally caught up with reading the whole thread and wanted to ask what your opinions are on various cards.
What do you guys think of Disenchant vs. Aura of Silence? I notice one or the other is often a 1-of in your sideboards, but wasn't sure of the reasoning behind choosing one over the other.
Disenchant is available a turn faster (for Bogles & Affinity), but can't be returned with Sun Titan's ETB/Attacking effect... but I feel like I'm missing something beyond the obvious?
After some more time with Ojutai's Command, what's the consensus? Is it good, not good enough, a win-more?
As much as I love what Flickerwisp does, am I wrong to feel awkward with it as a 1-of? I'm toying with the idea of cutting it for a mainboard Stonecloaker (mostly as a 3/2 flash flyer with situational upside)... until I figure out how I want to work in an extra 1-2 Flickerwisps in the mainboard (or if I want to). I'm aiming for more of a control-oriented build, so I skipped on Venser (he's stronger for the tap-out/beatdown plan, right?). But... I can't exploit Fwisp's power as much as I feel I need to (no flicker, no AEther Vials to flash it in, and the lack of synergy with Ojutai's Command). Oh well, thanks for any input guys.
I have been exploring potential choices for my first serious Modern deck and wanted to gather some opinions on Merfolk as a player's entry to the format. I understand that having flexible cards that can be used in more than a single archetype is a big plus, and that Merfolk's cards don't necessarily transfer as well as the fetchlands or easy to splash 2-3 CMC "goodstuff," and I am ok with this. I plan on playtesting with proxies/various online programs before fulling committing/investing in physical cards and it may be some time before I do find what I want to play. For the sake of this post, assume I have minimal knowledge of the deck & format -- go as in depth as you want. (Actual background: I mostly have played in more casual Standard-level settings in the past with friends, some FNM level play, etc.) What I wanted to ask:
Disclaimer: I realize some of these have an answer of varying depth in the OP, so I'm sorry for being redundant. I just wanted to ask as much as I could think of before I forgot to.
In your opinion(s), is Merfolk a good deck to learn the Modern format with?
Is there a natural progression of learning the deck's interactions and developing better lines of play?
As a followup to the above, is there anything overwhelming to learn for a new Modern player? (compared to say... Amulet Bloom's lines of play)
Is Merfolk a good deck to grow with as a player?
Will I have room to grow as a player as I learn what I'm doing with the deck?
...or will I learn more from just interacting with a larger number of Modern decks? (regardless of the deck I'm piloting)
Why is Merfolk "good"?
Against what decks are Merfolk considered most powerful? (or at least reasonably favored if Merfolk doesn't dominate any)
What decks will I enjoy playing against? (games with interactive back and forth plays or competitive best of 3 matches)
Could you please name decks that Merfolk struggles to win against? (just Affinity and Elves?)
Will I feel helpless vs these decks?
Can Merfolk deal with the "combo" decks well enough or will we just lose sometimes with a board full of threats?
How weak is Merfolk to answers from sideboards?
I am aware Choke is a nuisance and that board wipes of various CMC aren't our friends.
I'm not sure how to ask this... is there anything that we don't answer in a convenient way? (like how some decks struggle to answer a resolved Keranos, for example)
A few specialized questions:
What is Merfolk looking to "hit" or bounce when sideboarding in Hibernation? (what is its "target"?)
When playing, are you guys looking to hold onto Dismembers to answer a specific creature threat/manland or use as necessary?
In cases where Dismember is used based upon board state or to clear an opening for your attackers, is it just used in this deck for its cost efficiency of 1?
Merfolk avoids using fetchlands and shocks, so can we use Dismember because the life loss doesn't put us "behind" other decks?
Is there any reason the decklists are so light on instants? (3-5 mainboard at most?)
I know using a larger number of Vapor Snags was more popular in the past, is there a reason they're used less frequently in successful lists now?
If you were in my position, is there anything you would like to tell "yourself" about Merfolk/Modern? (either encouraging or discouraging)
(apologies if I accidentally left a question or sub-question unfinished and thank you for answering any you do)
on another note, what does your deck do against Tron, Storm, scapeshift or RWB?
I've tuned it toward more of what I play against most, and being honest, I haven't had much experience against Scapeshift. I recently had an additional Hide // Seek, and have tinkered with a second copy of Slaughter Games too. Pithing Needle can be great, but I often felt like I didn't have the right amount of information to utilize it properly (without the extra Seek), so it's out -- but worth considering based upon the field you're playing in. I'd love any feedback, and will try and post some of my own as I continue to play with this deck.
Tron:
In the matchup, you're looking to play Tempo, they're looking to play Control (until you can successfully lock them down). Your gameplan is disruption. Destroy their lands, stop them from untapping, tax them with Trinisphere. Bring in Sowing Salt to remove any pieces you'd like. Utilize Hide // Seek in games 2/3 when you can to remove Emrakul or their next scariest threat. Karn can be a real jerk if you let him be, if you have trouble, run Pithing Needles in the sideboard at your discretion.
The build I posted is weaker against storm as it lacks Chalice of the Void (:(), but Trinisphere can also causes them a lot of trouble If you need it, try a build with Chalice available in the sideboard. I think it's too slow in my build to be worthwhile, but is a very powerful effect to get out fast with acceleration for the archetype in general (strong on 1-2, we don't need either as often as most decks). You will make them feel very frustrated if your deck is tuned to shut down Storm.
Scapeshift:
I have minimal experience here Give me any/all advice you can from your experiences.
What do we have that we're looking to play and what are we looking to stop? In the Primeval Titan-less builds, are we just looking to remove Valakut and/or ruin their scapeshift trigger? How well does land destruction disrupt their plans? I feel like Scapeshift is a great archetype to recover from these types of effects, but could be quite vulnerable to lockdown immediately following a land wipe. I think my build is decently poised against the Primetime build, but could benefit from tweaking. Looks like another matchup I'd appreciate the addtional Hide // Seek, either to tuck my own pieces away from removal or search their library to remove big cards and stall their Valakut clock.
We also have access to prevent their filtering with Leonin Arbiter & Aven Mindcensor for a better tuned list. Are there any other filtering-preventers available to us?
RWB = Red/White/Blue?
And how good do you guys think Peak Eruption(from Theros) will be when paired with Blood Moon? Potentially a 2cc Strip Mine effect + Lightning Bolt? I guess we can also get that sort of effect using Leonin Arbiter & Ghost Quarter, but they can pay to avoid the hurt (if they have the land to do so).
I've been tweaking this into something between this thread's archetype and mono-white control. I like it but I feel like we're waiting on one more piece to be really viable.
Why (oh why) did I forget about this? :'( I think it has been too long since playing duels of the planeswalkers...
but, being a relative newbie to magic, I must ask: do they do these every year? Or can somebody explain what the digital items were? (I was originally planning on going for packs and the Xbox Live reward-thingy) ...Or could I be a bit of a bum and ask if anyone happened to pick up an extra XBLA code? I ought to be heading to my local store soon anyway, so maybe I can just check with the owner to see if he has an extra? (advice on whether or not this would be a good idea//a XBLA code both welcomed :))
His deck in Duels was Naya, he wasn't in D12 sadly. If there was a G/W deck for him hidden in there somewhere, that could be interesting. (unless as DLC or an expansion or something)
His DotP 2012 deck has been confirmed as "Auramancer" (GW) [here]. If you look [here] (or here), you can see the spoiled decklist for Ajani. (Although, it was indeed "hidden" in the game for the first set of DLC.)
are there any matchups where we'd like to run
Invocation of Saint Traft to help establish a clock/close out games? I mean... we get to recycle it and uh, that's nice, right?
However, your other two points (on Ghostly Prison vs. Archangel of Tithes) are very relevant. You should want those effects in time to stabilize or stall (arguably recovering on board with a Wrath/Verdict).
Racing to a 4-drop board wipe just to re-establish board presence with a 4-drop creature is less advantageous than a 3-drop enchantment into a 4-drop wrath effect that leaves the Prison behind. Restricting your opponent's options/luring them to try and remove your Prison instead of furthering their board ends up playing into our hand more than a 3/5 flyer (imo)
Merciless Executioner & Fleshbag Marauder fulfill a similar role a turn slower, require B, are vulnerable to Dryad Arbor fetching, but can be reused with Sun Titan/Emeria.
Wouldn't our Wall of Omens keep Defender?
luckwhat 75 you're running (W/U, Esper(W/B/U), a list featuring Venser, the Sojourner, a Gifts Ungiven and/or Unburial Rites package, Bant(W/G/U), Mono-W, or W/B?), we generally run 3-4 Lone Missionary/Arashin Cleric, 3-4 Wall of Omens, 2 Mortarpod, 2-3 Æther Spellbomb, 2+ Detention Sphere, and 2-3 Supreme Verdict/Wrath of God mainboard -- with some redundancy in the sideboard. We run a greater number of basic lands (mostly plains) than most 2+ color decks, so we can work in the BFZ Dual Checklands("tango lands") as our additional/alternative Shocklands.If you really need to tune toward those decks, we certainly have a nice shell to custom fit to your local meta. I'd say we do reasonably well, yes. As a bonus, W provides a great selection of powerful sideboard options to flex in like Kor Firewalker.
*edit*Bonus Discussion Content:
I noticed there was a 5-0 W/U Emeria list from a Modern League event that was running Ephara, God of the Polis(!) alongside a set of 4 Flickerwisp. Anyone here ever experiment with that card?
Relevant questions I came here to ask before making the above response:
Is there ever a time we're looking for acceleration from something like Mind Stone? (or any similar spells/permanents that get us to Sun Titan faster like Solemn Simulacrum)
Is a turn 5 (or earlier) Sun Titan worthwhile enough to cut other parts of the deck for a chance at achieving it or is that just the most important step to reach when trying to win for us?
As always, thanks for your inputs
What do you guys think of Disenchant vs. Aura of Silence? I notice one or the other is often a 1-of in your sideboards, but wasn't sure of the reasoning behind choosing one over the other.
Disenchant is available a turn faster (for Bogles & Affinity), but can't be returned with Sun Titan's ETB/Attacking effect... but I feel like I'm missing something beyond the obvious?
After some more time with Ojutai's Command, what's the consensus? Is it good, not good enough, a win-more?
What can we do against/what are our best answers for a resolved Keranos, God of Storms or Scavenging Ooze(gross little booger) and their effects?
Obligatory 75-in-progress:
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
7 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Island
Creatures:
4 Sun Titan
4 Wall of Omens
3 Court Hussar
3 Lone Missionary
2 Pilgrim's Eye
1 Flickerwisp
2 Aether Spellbomb
2 Mortarpod
Enchantments:
2 Detention Sphere
Instants:
4 Path to Exile
2 Negate
2 Mana Leak
1 Dispel
1 Ojutai's Command
Planeswalker:
1 Gideon Jura
Sorceries:
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Lone Missionary
1 Stonecloaker
2 Stony Silence
2 Spreading Seas
1 Aura of Silence
2 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Celestial Flare
1 Celestial Purge
2 Supreme Verdict
As much as I love what Flickerwisp does, am I wrong to feel awkward with it as a 1-of? I'm toying with the idea of cutting it for a mainboard Stonecloaker (mostly as a 3/2 flash flyer with situational upside)... until I figure out how I want to work in an extra 1-2 Flickerwisps in the mainboard (or if I want to). I'm aiming for more of a control-oriented build, so I skipped on Venser (he's stronger for the tap-out/beatdown plan, right?). But... I can't exploit Fwisp's power as much as I feel I need to (no flicker, no AEther Vials to flash it in, and the lack of synergy with Ojutai's Command).
I have been exploring potential choices for my first serious Modern deck and wanted to gather some opinions on Merfolk as a player's entry to the format. I understand that having flexible cards that can be used in more than a single archetype is a big plus, and that Merfolk's cards don't necessarily transfer as well as the fetchlands or easy to splash 2-3 CMC "goodstuff," and I am ok with this. I plan on playtesting with proxies/various online programs before fulling committing/investing in physical cards and it may be some time before I do find what I want to play. For the sake of this post, assume I have minimal knowledge of the deck & format -- go as in depth as you want. (Actual background: I mostly have played in more casual Standard-level settings in the past with friends, some FNM level play, etc.) What I wanted to ask:
Disclaimer: I realize some of these have an answer of varying depth in the OP, so I'm sorry for being redundant. I just wanted to ask as much as I could think of before I forgot to.
- In your opinion(s), is Merfolk a good deck to learn the Modern format with?
- Is there a natural progression of learning the deck's interactions and developing better lines of play?
- As a followup to the above, is there anything overwhelming to learn for a new Modern player? (compared to say... Amulet Bloom's lines of play)
- Is Merfolk a good deck to grow with as a player?
- Will I have room to grow as a player as I learn what I'm doing with the deck?
- ...or will I learn more from just interacting with a larger number of Modern decks? (regardless of the deck I'm piloting)
- Why is Merfolk "good"?
- Against what decks are Merfolk considered most powerful? (or at least reasonably favored if Merfolk doesn't dominate any)
- What decks will I enjoy playing against? (games with interactive back and forth plays or competitive best of 3 matches)
- Could you please name decks that Merfolk struggles to win against? (just Affinity and Elves?)
- Will I feel helpless vs these decks?
- Can Merfolk deal with the "combo" decks well enough or will we just lose sometimes with a board full of threats?
- How weak is Merfolk to answers from sideboards?
- I am aware Choke is a nuisance and that board wipes of various CMC aren't our friends.
- I'm not sure how to ask this... is there anything that we don't answer in a convenient way? (like how some decks struggle to answer a resolved Keranos, for example)
- A few specialized questions:
- What is Merfolk looking to "hit" or bounce when sideboarding in Hibernation? (what is its "target"?)
- When playing, are you guys looking to hold onto Dismembers to answer a specific creature threat/manland or use as necessary?
- In cases where Dismember is used based upon board state or to clear an opening for your attackers, is it just used in this deck for its cost efficiency of 1?
- Merfolk avoids using fetchlands and shocks, so can we use Dismember because the life loss doesn't put us "behind" other decks?
- Is there any reason the decklists are so light on instants? (3-5 mainboard at most?)
- I know using a larger number of Vapor Snags was more popular in the past, is there a reason they're used less frequently in successful lists now?
- If you were in my position, is there anything you would like to tell "yourself" about Merfolk/Modern? (either encouraging or discouraging)
(apologies if I accidentally left a question or sub-question unfinished and thank you for answering any you do)I too am looking for a Ruination reprint
I've tuned it toward more of what I play against most, and being honest, I haven't had much experience against Scapeshift. I recently had an additional Hide // Seek, and have tinkered with a second copy of Slaughter Games too. Pithing Needle can be great, but I often felt like I didn't have the right amount of information to utilize it properly (without the extra Seek), so it's out -- but worth considering based upon the field you're playing in. I'd love any feedback, and will try and post some of my own as I continue to play with this deck.
Tron:
In the matchup, you're looking to play Tempo, they're looking to play Control (until you can successfully lock them down). Your gameplan is disruption. Destroy their lands, stop them from untapping, tax them with Trinisphere. Bring in Sowing Salt to remove any pieces you'd like. Utilize Hide // Seek in games 2/3 when you can to remove Emrakul or their next scariest threat. Karn can be a real jerk if you let him be, if you have trouble, run Pithing Needles in the sideboard at your discretion.
Storm:
Always board in:
The build I posted is weaker against storm as it lacks Chalice of the Void (:(), but Trinisphere can also causes them a lot of trouble If you need it, try a build with Chalice available in the sideboard. I think it's too slow in my build to be worthwhile, but is a very powerful effect to get out fast with acceleration for the archetype in general (strong on 1-2, we don't need either as often as most decks). You will make them feel very frustrated if your deck is tuned to shut down Storm.
Scapeshift:
I have minimal experience here
What do we have that we're looking to play and what are we looking to stop? In the Primeval Titan-less builds, are we just looking to remove Valakut and/or ruin their scapeshift trigger? How well does land destruction disrupt their plans? I feel like Scapeshift is a great archetype to recover from these types of effects, but could be quite vulnerable to lockdown immediately following a land wipe. I think my build is decently poised against the Primetime build, but could benefit from tweaking. Looks like another matchup I'd appreciate the addtional Hide // Seek, either to tuck my own pieces away from removal or search their library to remove big cards and stall their Valakut clock.
We also have access to prevent their filtering with Leonin Arbiter & Aven Mindcensor for a better tuned list. Are there any other filtering-preventers available to us?
RWB = Red/White/Blue?
And how good do you guys think Peak Eruption(from Theros) will be when paired with Blood Moon? Potentially a 2cc Strip Mine effect + Lightning Bolt? I guess we can also get that sort of effect using Leonin Arbiter & Ghost Quarter, but they can pay to avoid the hurt (if they have the land to do so).
4 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
4 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Rugged Prairie
4 Plains
2 Mountain
Sorceries (10)
4 Wrath of God
3 Boom // Bust
3 Pyroclasm
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Mind Stone
2 Trinisphere
1 Darksteel Ingot
Instants (3)
3 Lightning Helix
Creatures (4)
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
Enchantments (7)
4 Ghostly Prison
3 Oblivion Ring
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Ajani Vengeant
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Rule of Law
2 Sowing Salt
3 Sulfur Elemental
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Slaughter Games
1 Hide // Seek
I've been tweaking this into something between this thread's archetype and mono-white control. I like it but I feel like we're waiting on one more piece to be really viable.
Followup questions (if "yes"):
but, being a relative newbie to magic, I must ask: do they do these every year? Or can somebody explain what the digital items were? (I was originally planning on going for packs and the Xbox Live reward-thingy) ...Or could I be a bit of a bum and ask if anyone happened to pick up an extra XBLA code? I ought to be heading to my local store soon anyway, so maybe I can just check with the owner to see if he has an extra? (advice on whether or not this would be a good idea//a XBLA code both welcomed :))
Check it: [here]
His DotP 2012 deck has been confirmed as "Auramancer" (GW) [here]. If you look [here] (or here), you can see the spoiled decklist for Ajani. (Although, it was indeed "hidden" in the game for the first set of DLC.)