The numbers would be pretty reasonable in terms of length comparing a 3 or 4 round swiss + top 8 vs a Double elimination for any tournament up to 128 players. For an event like a GP they already do 8 rounds on the first day alone and you can support 512 players on a double elimination that runs 10 rounds plus a final. Bit of a stretch for one day, and also not really kosher to run it for two days only expecting a handful of players to need to be there for the second day. But this still runs into "Yeah but I want to play the game." Magic at a tournament level is something of a sport, but its also a game that people come to play and have fun without any serious aspiration of winning the event. Cutting out half of the people from the event because they lost their first two games isn't good for that.
The real equation is that a casual thing like FNM isn't really about getting a winner at all. Its an event that has prize support but is mainly for people to come, play magic for a few hours, hang out, trade, let the store sell product etc... you don't do that by having half your field dropped in two games. You do that by having everyone play 3 or 4 rounds and then having a top 8 cut if the field was big enough to warrant it.
yea. no. I understand, I think you misread I didn't say I don't understand, I said its ridiculous
I'm glad you find it ridiculous that a painful, antiquated and downright insane system causes me to not bother with a method of play that I generally simply find boring to start with. I'd hardly bother with constructed at all even if the trading system was good. As it stands I won't bother with it all anymore. Just turn my draft cards into packs and on with life I go.
The system they need is a search box or index. You search/select the card you want to buy and you get a window showing all of the sellers for that card and all of the buyers for that card. You then get the option to buy the card from a seller or to put in a buy order at a price you feel is reasonable and wait for someone to sell it to you at that price. No checking a half dozen bots for the card you want, no buying from 5 different bots to build one deck. Just throw in your card list and hit 'buy'. In other words an efficient system that would make things easy.
The method currently in use is akin to actually buying stock on a trading floor instead of just using computer aided buy/sell orders. MTGO's method of trading is right out of the 1800s. The only improvement is the automated bots, except they can only handle one customer at a time and there's the whole insane 'store credit' system you end up dealing with.
Its Amazon vs Ye Olde Bookshop, without the charm, local business and personal relationships that come along with the brick and mortar store.
Sure, write stuff down. Just don't take forever and a minute to do so. Magic has a lot of stuff to keep track of and a few notes can make that easier...
I'm just too lazy to ever actually write anything down while I play.
The entire implementation is rather fantastically awful. It can be used well once you've learned the entire thing. *Anything* can be used well once you've learned it. Good design means something can be used well and intuitively the first time. MTGO is not good design. And there's the utter lack of any reasonable tutorial or explanation or practice mode to see how things work. Want to learn how to play MTGO and not make mistakes left, right and center all day long for the first dozen games you play? Better watch youtube.
The trading system is a joke. Event tickets? Automated bot systems? That have to store your 'credit' because you can only do purchases in whole tickets? Going to repeat this... automated bot systems. Sure you're used to it, but do you not see how utterly insane that is? Wizards may have wanted people to trade amongst themselves and not use stores... clearly the people don't give a damn and its about time Wizards made a smooth easy marketplace for trading instead of the joke that currently exists. An actual product classified list with the ability to list cards for sale at certain prices and offer buys at certain prices that is searchable, showing you all the sell and buy offers on any given card? Ability to buy things for 3 cents that are three cents instead of paying 1 ticket for and 1 card and .97 store credit?
I have built 1 single paupers deck for MTGO and I'll never build another constructed deck again. The way trading works is the reason why.
Phantasmal Image should be in here .. not only does he double your zombie mill but you can handle threats like Thrun. Dungrove is more annoying though.
Evil Twin or Cackling counterpart may be a better idea simply because they're not illusions and evil twin can be used to just remove a threat.
Did my first life counter style one. A bit of a hackjob but I like the effect of the little balls at the end that I may try for a better looking deliberate version next time.
I also need to use something other than a box cutter and tacky glue for these things...
have you considered putting in Endless Ranks of the Dead in the deck? It will help you swarm your opponent with Zombies and can produce a faster route to deck-out your opponent. But in my opinion, I wouldn't put more than 2 of them in a deck.
I don't really like it because by the time it really kicks into gear you're already destroying them with zombies. It ends the game maybe a turn or two quicker, but I don't see enough value in it to have to replace another card in my deck. IE do I want Endless Ranks or do I want doom blade? Do I want Endless Ranks or do I want another Forbidden Alchemy. Do I want Endless Ranks or a Mindshrieker? For me the answer to these questions is not Endless Ranks.
all i know that Undead Alchemist with 2 of these blades in my sealed pool was pretty good
If you can get an Alchemist and one of these equipped to any creature, its all the better. The blade mills his deck before damage is resolved, potentially making zombies for you and if damage gets through you get to mill all over again, potentially getting more zombies. Getting your hands on both of those guys in a draft sets you up to build a strong zombie deck.
Nobody likes Jace, Memory Adept? He seems like the quintessential mill engine...glimpsing on turn 5 before attacking with mill-zombies is a sure way to get some tokens in play.
So I've done some more MWS play testing and have had pretty decent success with the deck against control builds. Just sit on a counter spell for when they try to counter Undead Alchemist and then go to town milling for more zombies. To the tune of I've only lost against control builds when I've mana flooded or mana screwed. Perhaps just dumb luck but really by milling their deck you exile their win conditions and turn them into 2/2 zombies, you don't need to pull off the massivive mill hits against control that you can generate by milling down/zombifying an aggro deck. Aggro builds on the other hand can be pretty nasty to deal with, especially if they're running Mirran Crusaders. I've had games do everything from winning with beats from transformed Delver of Secrets to milling for 40 cards whilst stabilized at one life. The deck seems resourceful but it still has trouble dealing with white aggro decks running Mirran Crusaders. Being able to just walk through my wall of Zombies is painful.
Am trying to work out a sideboard to deal with that as I expect a lot of white weenie/honor the pure decks in my local meta.
What my deck looks like sans sideboard. I've gone heavier on control... but then I'm a control player at heart.
I usually don't go after myself with the Mill cards, it's always my opponent, but on the off chance that my opponent Sided in Laboratory Maniac, then I would side out my milling cards and just go with Creature destruction and swarming.
My experience in testing so far has been if you get the alchemist online and score some hits you very quickly are milling so much that the mill cards are almost negligible in comparison, and really I don't think the deck can be fast enough to win via mill with the spells alone. Digging in your own deck lets you get that avalanche of zombie tokens happening before your opponent can get answers.
I agree the sideboard needs to be able to swap from mill to a pure aggro requirement its just that right now I'm just thinking along the lines of the main deck before I really try to fine tune a sideboard as that is going to be dependent on what other decks show up in the format.
Soon as I saw the Innistrad spoilers, I knew I was going to be making a Blue/Black Zombie deck. Once I saw Alchemist and Trepanation Blade, I knew it was going to be an aggro-mill style deck. I mean... come on now, deal your damage as mill? And a sword that mills to determine the amount of damage it deals? And then produce zombies for even more hilarious value? That's just awesome.
This is the current incarnation of my thought experiment. It contains signs of my affection for UB/Control
I feel like the deck needs a way to search and filter for cards, hence why I side with Forbidden Alchemy, Think Twice and Merfolk Looters rather than things like dream twist to get cards into my graveyard. Being able to dig 4 deep and grab what you need is just so damn useful.
I'm probably going to get a Photoshop itch later and make a banner for this deck arch-type.
The real equation is that a casual thing like FNM isn't really about getting a winner at all. Its an event that has prize support but is mainly for people to come, play magic for a few hours, hang out, trade, let the store sell product etc... you don't do that by having half your field dropped in two games. You do that by having everyone play 3 or 4 rounds and then having a top 8 cut if the field was big enough to warrant it.
I'm glad you find it ridiculous that a painful, antiquated and downright insane system causes me to not bother with a method of play that I generally simply find boring to start with. I'd hardly bother with constructed at all even if the trading system was good. As it stands I won't bother with it all anymore. Just turn my draft cards into packs and on with life I go.
The system they need is a search box or index. You search/select the card you want to buy and you get a window showing all of the sellers for that card and all of the buyers for that card. You then get the option to buy the card from a seller or to put in a buy order at a price you feel is reasonable and wait for someone to sell it to you at that price. No checking a half dozen bots for the card you want, no buying from 5 different bots to build one deck. Just throw in your card list and hit 'buy'. In other words an efficient system that would make things easy.
The method currently in use is akin to actually buying stock on a trading floor instead of just using computer aided buy/sell orders. MTGO's method of trading is right out of the 1800s. The only improvement is the automated bots, except they can only handle one customer at a time and there's the whole insane 'store credit' system you end up dealing with.
Its Amazon vs Ye Olde Bookshop, without the charm, local business and personal relationships that come along with the brick and mortar store.
I'm just too lazy to ever actually write anything down while I play.
The trading system is a joke. Event tickets? Automated bot systems? That have to store your 'credit' because you can only do purchases in whole tickets? Going to repeat this... automated bot systems. Sure you're used to it, but do you not see how utterly insane that is? Wizards may have wanted people to trade amongst themselves and not use stores... clearly the people don't give a damn and its about time Wizards made a smooth easy marketplace for trading instead of the joke that currently exists. An actual product classified list with the ability to list cards for sale at certain prices and offer buys at certain prices that is searchable, showing you all the sell and buy offers on any given card? Ability to buy things for 3 cents that are three cents instead of paying 1 ticket for and 1 card and .97 store credit?
I have built 1 single paupers deck for MTGO and I'll never build another constructed deck again. The way trading works is the reason why.
Evil Twin or Cackling counterpart may be a better idea simply because they're not illusions and evil twin can be used to just remove a threat.
I also need to use something other than a box cutter and tacky glue for these things...
I don't really like it because by the time it really kicks into gear you're already destroying them with zombies. It ends the game maybe a turn or two quicker, but I don't see enough value in it to have to replace another card in my deck. IE do I want Endless Ranks or do I want doom blade? Do I want Endless Ranks or do I want another Forbidden Alchemy. Do I want Endless Ranks or a Mindshrieker? For me the answer to these questions is not Endless Ranks.
If you can get an Alchemist and one of these equipped to any creature, its all the better. The blade mills his deck before damage is resolved, potentially making zombies for you and if damage gets through you get to mill all over again, potentially getting more zombies. Getting your hands on both of those guys in a draft sets you up to build a strong zombie deck.
I like Jace, but I don't like tapping out.
Am trying to work out a sideboard to deal with that as I expect a lot of white weenie/honor the pure decks in my local meta.
What my deck looks like sans sideboard. I've gone heavier on control... but then I'm a control player at heart.
4 [M12] Drowned Catacomb
4 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
5 [NPH] Island (2)
4 [ISD] Nephalia Drownyard
6 [ISD] Swamp (2)
4 [M12] Cemetery Reaper
2 [M12] Merfolk Looter
4 [MBS] Phyrexian Crusader
4 [ISD] Diregraf Ghoul
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets
4 [ISD] Undead Alchemist
3 [M12] Ponder
3 [M12] Mana Leak
2 [M12] Unsummon
2 [ISD] Trepanation Blade
3 [ISD] Dissipate
2 [ISD] Forbidden Alchemy
My experience in testing so far has been if you get the alchemist online and score some hits you very quickly are milling so much that the mill cards are almost negligible in comparison, and really I don't think the deck can be fast enough to win via mill with the spells alone. Digging in your own deck lets you get that avalanche of zombie tokens happening before your opponent can get answers.
I agree the sideboard needs to be able to swap from mill to a pure aggro requirement its just that right now I'm just thinking along the lines of the main deck before I really try to fine tune a sideboard as that is going to be dependent on what other decks show up in the format.
This is the current incarnation of my thought experiment. It contains signs of my affection for UB/Control
2 Armored Skaab
3 Cemetery Reaper
3 Merfolk Looter
3 Abattoir Ghoul
4 Undead Alchemist
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Think Twice
2 Moan of the Unhallowed
2 Go for the Throat
3 Mana Leak
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
3 Trepanation Blade
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Nephalia Drownyard
6 Swamp
5 Island
I feel like the deck needs a way to search and filter for cards, hence why I side with Forbidden Alchemy, Think Twice and Merfolk Looters rather than things like dream twist to get cards into my graveyard. Being able to dig 4 deep and grab what you need is just so damn useful.
I'm probably going to get a Photoshop itch later and make a banner for this deck arch-type.
How about calling them?