So control is broken trash, red based aggro is cheap, and white weenie cheap.
Did Jund type this post? lol. Come on OP, I don't want to be rude or anything, but if everything you encounter is a problem, the problem is probably how you're playing.
So I’ve been playing u/w spirits for a while, and recently went into bant. I love it, but I’m not nuts about reflector mage. How are you guys feeling about it, and would more rattlechains/nebelghast/selfless spirit not be better in it’s place?
I've been testing against spirits quite a bit, and they've been trouncing me consistently. I run a pretty stock list, but trying to win through 4 mausoleum wanderers and 4 spell quellers can be very difficult.
With the rise of Collective Brutality, could we possibly mitigate having our hands shredding with the addition of a second Grim Lavamancer? It turns our misfortune into shocks, and being a creature, it dodges Collective's discard mode, so we can hold it back and let them waste removal on Guide, or Eidolon first.
There is also the possibility of going towards a Red Deck wins kind of style with the inclusion of Spark Elemental and [card]Hellspark Elemental[card], but I don't like that they get chumped for days in most matchups after turn 3/4.
Every once in a while I pop in to shout Price of Progress. We still have no ample way to punish greedy decks,and there is almost no advantage or incentive to playing mono colour decks.
I'm also fairly certain that burn wouldn't become that much more powerful with PoP, mostly because of the introduction of Eidolon, and the prevalence of the Naya version, Burn would be taking way too much damage to reliably win off Price of Progress. Or I might be biased, because I've been playing mono red for thousands of years across every format.
I'd also like to second Counter Spell and Force of Will. If blue and permission becomes better, our banlist should theoretically become smaller, but blue has to be strengthened in a way that favours decks with less colours.
Played a four-man FFA a while back, I was playing Monoblack Zombies, another opponent had Monoblack too, the other two decks were Naya, and Jund.
So we're doing our thing, and I had a few do-nothing-zombies and a Charcoal Diamond. Everyone else more or less in the same state, except the other monoblack player. He had just stuck a Grave pact and he had the means to abuse it. What does the Naya player do? He Beast Withins my CHARCOAL DIAMOND.
HE BLEW UP MY ONLY MANA ROCK BECAUSE HE WAS SCARED
SCARED THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO RAMP--
--GET THIS--
INTO -MY- GRAVEPACT.
I ALREADY HAD FOUR LANDS OUT.
Anyway, I ended up finding my Gravepact and no one ever had creatures again.
I think Emrakul's ban is symptomatic of the EDH's fear of destroying lands. This allows ramp and battlecruiser to run with near impunity.
That seems to lack any real credibility when Armageddon isnt banned.
I don't think it lacks credibility when forums are filled with posts decrying land destruction, or house banning it. I've been to multiple groups and spoken to people who run tournaments in my city before attending Commander nights, and I receive the same pre-game warning time and time again; "just no infinite combos and no land destruction". The meta is always the same, and filled with Gx or GB decks dunking on the table, windmill slamming Wurmcoil engines and Eldrazi because people get ostracized if they dare cast a jokulhaups or 'geddon to punish the over extenders.
I would rather get wrecked by Emrakul in one or two turns, than have a slow agonizing 15 turn drawn out death by Derevi. Emrakul blows up permanents, just as vorinclex shuts down lands, iona invalidates mono coloured decks, jin-gitaxias decimates hands, meren invalidates most removal. With 15 mana, someone can cast a timewalk effect and a huge creature and still get a swing in. In the groups I've played with, when we see someone ramping aggressively, lands get blown up and mana rocks get hit, because logically, if we fear the big creature, we stall it out until we catch up.
I think Emrakul's ban is symptomatic of the EDH's fear of destroying lands. This allows ramp and battlecruiser to run with near impunity. We expect combo to get punished with counters, we expect aggro to get punished with board wipes, why does ramp get a free pass from land destruction. I'm not saying cast armageddon on turn four, but don't be afraid to use khamal and pestilence to snipe a few lands every now and then.
I'll extend an olive branch and admit that he may become over centralizing, but if people are bribery'ing it, or tooth and nail'ing, I'd refer to the rules committee's stance that "we won't ban it, you guys just have to play responsibly with it."
Pretty cool idea and congrats. I'm a hardcore lurker of the banlist discussion, so it's always nice to see people "putting up" after heated debate.
I would like to offer my input though, take it, if you will, with a grain of salt because my preferred strategies are stax and permission, but I am a strong advocate of cards that mess with lands. Land destruction, Winter Orb effects, and Back to Basics effects, because without them, you either play green or fall behind. There needs to be efficient, attractive ways, to punish decks that rely on greedy mana bases, or windmill slamming fatties. I've been a part of a bunch of groups of varying competitive levels, and each time, the groups that deteriorated, were because of unchecked big mana decks. The groups that persist and remain fun are those that run said effects, I just see greater thought going into politics, deck building, and less over extension when land destruction is present, and it results in a greater number of decks that don't run green.
Also, set the starting life total to 30. Aggro and midrange deserve to have a more active role than just laying low until they can snipe someone. Playing with non-token creature combat damage in a singleton format is already hard enough, and the loss of fast mana will probably make it harder. In a four player pod, we can expect 2-4 wraths, and if there is a black deck present, then you also have to worry about Grave Pact shenanigans..
I would give my esper Oloro deck a solid 7. It's mostly geared towards dealing with decks that rely on creatures whether they be combo, or just beatdown.
I only have about three cards (including my general) that cost over 4, so it can set up with relatively little resources.
If you put me in a pod with Nekusar, Sidisi Ad nauseum, and the like, I'd probably drop down to a 4 or a 3 since most of my cards except my counter spells and solitary confinement would be useless.
Did Jund type this post? lol. Come on OP, I don't want to be rude or anything, but if everything you encounter is a problem, the problem is probably how you're playing.
Temur Valakut isn't really in a good position and they're already tight on the lists, it might help. Bring To Light Shift might make better use of it.
There is also the possibility of going towards a Red Deck wins kind of style with the inclusion of Spark Elemental and [card]Hellspark Elemental[card], but I don't like that they get chumped for days in most matchups after turn 3/4.
I'm also fairly certain that burn wouldn't become that much more powerful with PoP, mostly because of the introduction of Eidolon, and the prevalence of the Naya version, Burn would be taking way too much damage to reliably win off Price of Progress. Or I might be biased, because I've been playing mono red for thousands of years across every format.
I'd also like to second Counter Spell and Force of Will. If blue and permission becomes better, our banlist should theoretically become smaller, but blue has to be strengthened in a way that favours decks with less colours.
So we're doing our thing, and I had a few do-nothing-zombies and a Charcoal Diamond. Everyone else more or less in the same state, except the other monoblack player. He had just stuck a Grave pact and he had the means to abuse it. What does the Naya player do? He Beast Withins my CHARCOAL DIAMOND.
HE BLEW UP MY ONLY MANA ROCK BECAUSE HE WAS SCARED
SCARED THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO RAMP--
--GET THIS--
INTO -MY- GRAVEPACT.
I ALREADY HAD FOUR LANDS OUT.
Anyway, I ended up finding my Gravepact and no one ever had creatures again.
I don't think it lacks credibility when forums are filled with posts decrying land destruction, or house banning it. I've been to multiple groups and spoken to people who run tournaments in my city before attending Commander nights, and I receive the same pre-game warning time and time again; "just no infinite combos and no land destruction". The meta is always the same, and filled with Gx or GB decks dunking on the table, windmill slamming Wurmcoil engines and Eldrazi because people get ostracized if they dare cast a jokulhaups or 'geddon to punish the over extenders.
I think Emrakul's ban is symptomatic of the EDH's fear of destroying lands. This allows ramp and battlecruiser to run with near impunity. We expect combo to get punished with counters, we expect aggro to get punished with board wipes, why does ramp get a free pass from land destruction. I'm not saying cast armageddon on turn four, but don't be afraid to use khamal and pestilence to snipe a few lands every now and then.
I'll extend an olive branch and admit that he may become over centralizing, but if people are bribery'ing it, or tooth and nail'ing, I'd refer to the rules committee's stance that "we won't ban it, you guys just have to play responsibly with it."
I would like to offer my input though, take it, if you will, with a grain of salt because my preferred strategies are stax and permission, but I am a strong advocate of cards that mess with lands. Land destruction, Winter Orb effects, and Back to Basics effects, because without them, you either play green or fall behind. There needs to be efficient, attractive ways, to punish decks that rely on greedy mana bases, or windmill slamming fatties. I've been a part of a bunch of groups of varying competitive levels, and each time, the groups that deteriorated, were because of unchecked big mana decks. The groups that persist and remain fun are those that run said effects, I just see greater thought going into politics, deck building, and less over extension when land destruction is present, and it results in a greater number of decks that don't run green.
Also, set the starting life total to 30. Aggro and midrange deserve to have a more active role than just laying low until they can snipe someone. Playing with non-token creature combat damage in a singleton format is already hard enough, and the loss of fast mana will probably make it harder. In a four player pod, we can expect 2-4 wraths, and if there is a black deck present, then you also have to worry about Grave Pact shenanigans..
I only have about three cards (including my general) that cost over 4, so it can set up with relatively little resources.
If you put me in a pod with Nekusar, Sidisi Ad nauseum, and the like, I'd probably drop down to a 4 or a 3 since most of my cards except my counter spells and solitary confinement would be useless.